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Post by hulluliini on Dec 20, 2022 8:23:07 GMT
This is a good article on why Ryder isn't as liked: gamerant.com/mass-effect-5-protagonist-shepard-ryder/IMO, one big difference in terms of humor is that Shepard's quirks (largely due to game design, e.g. eavesdropping being an important game mechanic for learning about the world, jogging everywhere on the ship, etc.) are what makes her a fun character to play. When Shepard tries to be funny in ME3 Citadel, it's a bit embarrassing because she isn't a jokey character, but inside the little world of this one DLC it works because it doesn't bleed into the rest of the game. In the same way, Ryder is actively trying to be funny, which isn't as funny as the character being unintentionally funny like Shepard. So maybe it's about people's tastes in humor?
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Post by Son of Dorn on Dec 21, 2022 0:43:00 GMT
ah yes, the sam voice thing. Without it, little Ryder would be trying to figure out which way is up. Ryder comes across as an incompetent wimp. Whatever he/she learned in the Alliance, and from their father, a former N7, went in one ear and out the other. I do agree there are folks who are/were in the military that acted goofy at times, but when it came to training, that goofiness went out the window. They also know they wouldn't put up with the crap that little Ryder allowed in MEA. Some have said Bioware could have Ryder mature, if they're in the next game. Perhaps, but for me to believe they have, a few things would have to change. Would I want Ryder in my unit when I was in the military? No. If anything, Ryder needs to be sent to the Qunari to be re-educated. Better yet, send Ryder to the jungle planet of Catachan. £10 says that Ryder dies within 10 seconds. 😆
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Post by Phantom on Dec 21, 2022 1:33:20 GMT
ah yes, the sam voice thing. Without it, little Ryder would be trying to figure out which way is up. Ryder comes across as an incompetent wimp. Whatever he/she learned in the Alliance, and from their father, a former N7, went in one ear and out the other. I do agree there are folks who are/were in the military that acted goofy at times, but when it came to training, that goofiness went out the window. They also know they wouldn't put up with the crap that little Ryder allowed in MEA. Some have said Bioware could have Ryder mature, if they're in the next game. Perhaps, but for me to believe they have, a few things would have to change. Would I want Ryder in my unit when I was in the military? No. If anything, Ryder needs to be sent to the Qunari to be re-educated. Better yet, send Ryder to the jungle planet of Catachan. £10 says that Ryder dies within 10 seconds. 😆 well you underestimate how dangerous that Catachan is normally. No matter how you cut it, Ryder can't last 5 second there.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Dec 21, 2022 1:36:14 GMT
Better yet, send Ryder to the jungle planet of Catachan. £10 says that Ryder dies within 10 seconds. 😆 well you underestimate how dangerous that Catachan is normally. No matter how you cut it, Ryder can't last 5 second there. I added 5 extra seconds for Ryder running away while pissing himself/herself while a Catachan Devil chases after them. 😆😆😈
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 1:43:50 GMT
Ryder isn’t a chucklefuck either, or at least none of the ones I or many others played, so your whole argument is invalid. Agree to disagree? We are at an impasse, even a full professional/logical Ryder will cheese out for no reason at times in the game. Do not make me an awkward person, let me choose to be one. Sure, sounds about like my experience too, except I have worked with soldiers and officers in unarmed combat training. This is maybe closer to combat? Because they weren't asking me to train them for the health benefits. The family members and coworkers I know that served, have mostly tried to put that part of their lives in the distant rearview and don't miss it. Dad never talked about his service when we still spoke, none of my 4 grandfathers wanted to talk about that stuff at all, they all served in WW2 and each carried unique scars. Neither of us knows these people in the shit. Being in Andromeda, once the Kett were revealed as a constant military issue and imperial conquistadors - neck deep in the shit. To me, this is another failure of the writing and the gameplay being at odds with one another - they made a game that evoked the exploration of the original Mass Effect, gave us a "scientific" goal, and then we are in a war against a new galactic/meta-galactic threat with no guns on our ship or surface cruiser. A cavalier wisecracking awkward kid that due to nepotism and an AI becomes the greatest warrior Andromeda has ever seen.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 21, 2022 3:18:12 GMT
Ryder isn’t a chucklefuck either, or at least none of the ones I or many others played, so your whole argument is invalid. Agree to disagree? We are at an impasse, even a full professional/logical Ryder will cheese out for no reason at times in the game. Do not make me an awkward person, let me choose to be one. I won’t agree to disagree, since no definition of the term chucklefuck applies to Ryder. Heck part of the definition has them being inept, which you’re complaining they aren’t inept but rather too much the opposite for their background. They also aren’t stupid, showing plenty of intelligence on a variety of subjects throughout the game. Bumbling okay I’ll grant you sometimes they are that. But then so was Shepard at times. As for the rest of your post, that I’ll agree to disagree since how people act in those situations is as subjective as it gets since every single person reacts differently.
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Post by Beerfish on Dec 21, 2022 3:55:15 GMT
Tough for me to compare Ryders vs Shepard, Shepard has a huge advantage of 3 full games of development and he is the entire star of the show. The Ryders really are the twins plus the father.
For me ME4, I just thought the companions were weaker and the game itself just had some game play dynamics i did not enjoy. They could have done better with the storyline. I'll have to play it again to see if I still have the same bias.
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 21, 2022 10:30:47 GMT
To me, this is another failure of the writing and the gameplay being at odds with one another - they made a game that evoked the exploration of the original Mass Effect, gave us a "scientific" goal, and then we are in a war against a new galactic/meta-galactic threat with no guns on our ship or surface cruiser. A cavalier wisecracking awkward kid that due to nepotism and an AI becomes the greatest warrior Andromeda has ever seen. This right here. The MEA marketing campaign and early moments of the game make it appear focused on exploration and discovery with the protagonists not being soldiers this time. Then about ten minutes into the first actual mission they find some unfriendly aliens and without a moment's consideration take it upon themselves to kill them all... without even wasting a single thought about how dangerous this new alien species might be as a whole. They are a complete unknown. They could be part of a galactic empire with billions of troops that could casually wipe the AI's little expeditionary force off the map without finding that important enough to even submit an after action report. Luckily that wasn't the case. How convenient. The same goes for the Kett of course. MEA talked a lot about exploration and "coming in peace", and then it's all about shooting aliens again. And Ryder's wise cracking gave him/her a weird vibe of being oblivious to what was really going on.
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Post by themikefest on Dec 21, 2022 13:51:37 GMT
No matter what is said about the little one, he/she proved they lack skills to be in any leadership position. The game proves it. What leader in their right mind would allow a couple of squadmates to get away with the nonsense that is seen in the game? What leader would be ok with someone sneaking aboard their ship to take whatever? What leader would recruit a squadmate who is not a team player? What leader would lack the courage to stand up for themselves? It comes back to Ryder. He/she is the problem. They lack discipline. They have the I don't care attitude. The problems could have been avoided if the little one acted like a leader. Look at Kosta. When he mentions he's been suspended x number of times, that should have sent alarms in Ryder's head to investigate. Ask him why. It turns out he's a troublemaker. He lives up to that name in the game. I would have removed him from the roster right away. I would be curious if Alec asked him about that or was Alec so obsessed about his wife he overlooked that part of Kosta's record. It would also make me question why he was made pathfinder. Then there is the peepee character. What a piece of crap. If Ryder had half a brain, he/she would realize someone who prefers to work alone would not do well as a team player. The game proved that.
Could Ryder do well as a leader? Yes. Anyone can if they apply themselves. Could Ryder be like Shepard? No. They are two different people. Just because Shepard accomplished whatever doesn't mean Ryder can't have accomplishments of they're own. Yes Ryder did get Meridian, but that mostly done by a voice in their head.
As I've said before. If Ryder were to return, and Bioware decides to make them more mature, whatever that means, I would like to see a number of changes to get me to believe that. For right now, I view Ryder would be best suited for KP duty
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Post by ClarkKent on Dec 21, 2022 20:14:06 GMT
Ryder being a chucklefuck wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Alistair in DAO was a fine chucklefuck and I found him very believable, unlike Ryder.
I think the writing was just quite bad in MEA honestly.
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Post by 10k on Dec 21, 2022 21:41:12 GMT
Ryder being a chucklefuck wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Alistair in DAO was a fine chucklefuck and I found him very believable, unlike Ryder. I think the writing was just quite bad in MEA honestly. Sure, but we didn't play as Alistair. That's the difference. I would have hated playing Origins as Alistair. He's a good side character, because he's obviously the comedic relief. But Alistair as main protagonist. No.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 21, 2022 22:21:09 GMT
I’m still so puzzled by this version of MEA you have played. My Ryder wasn’t any of these things.
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Post by Cyberstrike on Dec 21, 2022 22:25:52 GMT
I often play Ryder as more serious than Shepard and in my recent playthrough of ME:LE I made Shepard quite a chucklefuck to the point where she had a hard time taking a lot things and people seriously.
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Post by ClarkKent on Dec 21, 2022 22:44:26 GMT
Ryder being a chucklefuck wasn't necessarily a bad thing. Alistair in DAO was a fine chucklefuck and I found him very believable, unlike Ryder. I think the writing was just quite bad in MEA honestly. Sure, but we didn't play as Alistair. That's the difference. I would have hated playing Origins as Alistair. He's a good side character, because he's obviously the comedic relief. But Alistair as main protagonist. No. I guess. I suppose I'm more addressing the argument that chucklefuck characters aren't believable. They can be believable. Ryder was just low quality chucklefuck.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 21, 2022 23:04:35 GMT
Everyone is focusing on my word choice lol.
Chucklefuck.
Anyways, what's this thread about anyway?
I think it's gonna be great! I will believe this until your reviews confirm or deny this. My speculation is for spectacular, because when your back's up against the wall, you use it.
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Post by peashoot on Dec 23, 2022 1:26:50 GMT
I am now thinking that N7 day art with cityscape and some people with breathable masks is Palaven. - We never saw turian architecture design properly. Yes, those towers look like asari design, but not definitively.
- We never visited any proper definitively turian world, while we did see all other homeworlds of Citadel races. Now is as good time as any to do that.
- Palaven was just as bad as Earth during Reaper War. ME3 Codex even mentions "The dust and smoke from pulverized cities is now a breathing hazard across much of the planet."
- Silvery towers, which might also be a hint towards codex as it was described as "the only thing that is not silver is turians themselves".
- Towers can be air purifiers or some atmospheric facilities similar to Shroud built by salarians on Tuchanka. Could be even salarian design.
- Turian figure on the foreground, with salarian and krogan on the background. Basically artists can be indirectly hinting and tying it together, e.g. krogan that stayed on Palaven after the war, salarians helping with air quality.
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 23, 2022 20:20:54 GMT
Tough for me to compare Ryders vs Shepard, Shepard has a huge advantage of 3 full games of development and he is the entire star of the show. The Ryders really are the twins plus the father. While I won't argue that, Shepard was still a commanding authority. This is the person who can tell an admiral to go fuck himself (Mikhailovich). And that's in ME1. Ryder is afraid to deal with the moronic bureaucrats attempting to do something useful. Even when Ryder shows successes there is still significant skepticism. Addison should have gotten a punch to the gut. She lacked anything approaching professionalism. I don't honestly know why anyone at all put up with her, even before the start of MEA. She's even a big part of why there was a rebellion in the first place. Incompetent. And Ryder is unwilling to call her out on it.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 23, 2022 22:04:54 GMT
Love how pretty much everyone I’ve seen complaining about Ryder not having a backbone want them to be a sociopath instead. Hopefully you all will forever remain disappointed.
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Post by hulluliini on Dec 24, 2022 10:53:18 GMT
I’m still so puzzled by this version of MEA you have played. My Ryder wasn’t any of these things. The problem is with the autodialogue. I tend to choose the logical or empathetic dialogue options but then my Sara goes "Hold me Liam!" and I just roll my eyes because my Ryder does NOT make stupid jokes in a situation where she is about to die (as far as she knows), letting down the whole Initiative, just because she cannot kick Liam off the ship because the writers decided she shouldn't be able to do that. Most of the time you can play the character you want but the autodialogue is not neutral enough so it's grating unless you are mainly choosing the quirky/jokey dialogue options. The writers decided that everyone would be going with those lines and nobody would want to play a rational, serious Ryder. IMO Shepard's autodialogue was more neutral except in ME3 there were moments where I didn't like it at times.
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Post by hulluliini on Dec 24, 2022 10:57:08 GMT
I’m still so puzzled by this version of MEA you have played. My Ryder wasn’t any of these things. The problem is with the autodialogue. I tend to choose the logical or empathetic dialogue options but then my Sara goes "Hold me Liam!" and I just roll my eyes because my Ryder does NOT make stupid jokes in a situation where she is about to die (as far as she knows), letting down the whole Initiative, just because she cannot kick Liam off the ship because the writers decided she shouldn't be able to do that. Most of the time you can play the character you want but the autodialogue is not neutral enough so it's grating unless you are mainly choosing the quirky/jokey dialogue options. The writers decided that everyone would be going with those lines and nobody would want to play a rational, serious Ryder. IMO Shepard's autodialogue was more neutral except in ME3 there were moments where I didn't like it at times. Unless the hold me Liam was a choice and I managed to click the wrong one? Just the first example to come to my mind lol.
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Post by Spectr61 on Dec 24, 2022 15:54:51 GMT
Ryder isn’t a chucklefuck either, or at least none of the ones I or many others played, so your whole argument is invalid. Agree to disagree? We are at an impasse, even a full professional/logical Ryder will cheese out for no reason at times in the game. Do not make me an awkward person, let me choose to be one. Sure, sounds about like my experience too, except I have worked with soldiers and officers in unarmed combat training. This is maybe closer to combat? Because they weren't asking me to train them for the health benefits. The family members and coworkers I know that served, have mostly tried to put that part of their lives in the distant rearview and don't miss it. Dad never talked about his service when we still spoke, none of my 4 grandfathers wanted to talk about that stuff at all, they all served in WW2 and each carried unique scars. Neither of us knows these people in the shit. Being in Andromeda, once the Kett were revealed as a constant military issue and imperial conquistadors - neck deep in the shit. To me, this is another failure of the writing and the gameplay being at odds with one another - they made a game that evoked the exploration of the original Mass Effect, gave us a "scientific" goal, and then we are in a war against a new galactic/meta-galactic threat with no guns on our ship or surface cruiser. A cavalier wisecracking awkward kid that due to nepotism and an AI becomes the greatest warrior Andromeda has ever seen. Not to put too fine of a point on it, but - Fucking A.! +10
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 24, 2022 15:59:40 GMT
The problem is with the autodialogue. I tend to choose the logical or empathetic dialogue options but then my Sara goes "Hold me Liam!" and I just roll my eyes because my Ryder does NOT make stupid jokes in a situation where she is about to die (as far as she knows), letting down the whole Initiative, just because she cannot kick Liam off the ship because the writers decided she shouldn't be able to do that. Most of the time you can play the character you want but the autodialogue is not neutral enough so it's grating unless you are mainly choosing the quirky/jokey dialogue options. The writers decided that everyone would be going with those lines and nobody would want to play a rational, serious Ryder. IMO Shepard's autodialogue was more neutral except in ME3 there were moments where I didn't like it at times. Unless the hold me Liam was a choice and I managed to click the wrong one? Just the first example to come to my mind lol. That line is from a dialogue choice, not aitodialogue.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Dec 24, 2022 23:05:32 GMT
I do prefer Shepard to Ryder, somehow Shepard made me feel more... badass? That being said I certainly didn't hate Ryder, to me they just came of as more young and inexperienced compared to Shepard (which might have been the point?). I dunno, I felt Ryder didn't have as many iconic moments, but then again we only got one game with them, it could be nice if we were to see how they evolved with time and responsibility.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 25, 2022 0:04:42 GMT
I do prefer Shepard to Ryder, somehow Shepard made me feel more... badass? That being said I certainly didn't hate Ryder, to me they just came of as more young and inexperienced compared to Shepard (which might have been the point?). I dunno, I felt Ryder didn't have as many iconic moments, but then again we only got one game with them, it could be nice if we were to see how they evolved with time and responsibility. That was the plan, but too many babies through a tantrum so now we’ll probably never get to see it since BioWare seems to want to cater to those who’ll bitch about anything they do.
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Post by mtheillusive on Dec 25, 2022 0:40:53 GMT
Something just hit me about Andromeda, the Benefactor in particular.
*The Benefactor was aware of Sam's existence *Ai Initiative....literally *Turian Sam can fly an entire Ark by itself *SAM was already far more advanced than what Alec Ryder had realized *SAM was created way before the Initiative was even founded *SAM knows about Ellen's condition *Mass Effect 1 AI was funneling money on the Citadel. *On Illium(as mentioned in Andromeda)- Citadel Economics Board: Case Report A-5
...on the subject of the 2182 flash crash, nicknamed the Illium Sinkhole. Thousands of stock prices collapsed overnight, destroying the value of approximately 1.2 million personal accounts.
Responsibility was later traced to a rogue virtual intelligence developed for the Illium stock market, whose sentience had been illegally modified. Rella T'Pajis, a senior "white hat" hacker at the Bank of Nos Astra, gave forceful testimony on the rising use of such VI, which make decisions in milliseconds that affect financial markets across Citadel space, often based on news stories that a non-synthetic stockbroker would know to ignore.
"As far as the VI knows, it's just moving numbers around," T'Pajis testified. "It might even find that personally fulfilling in ways organic life can't understand. But for us, a decimal point can be the difference between riches and ruin."
*SAM may have a connection to that, and 2182 was literally just a year before 2183...
Basically...SAM literally may just be the Benefactor.
But why would SAM kill Jien Garson? Cause she knows of an unknown Benefactor. And perhaps SAM KNEW what would happen to Alec when he activated the vault. SAM wanted him dead and transferred to the younger Ryder. Whatever the case, the only living witness is Scott/Sara Ryder, and we all know that SAM can kill them instantly.
And SAM now has Meridian.
SAM for next Mass Effect villain!
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