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warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Jan 26, 2018 12:48:13 GMT
i just want people's opinion on the matter, to gather some information, apart of satisfying my curiosity of course.
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apollexander
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 350 Likes: 775
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by apollexander on Jan 26, 2018 13:06:37 GMT
I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you mean 'should Bioware develop their own engine or use Frostbite'? I think Frostbite is not a bad choice. At least Bioware managed to build DAI on it. DAI had got 89 on Metacritic and sold probably the most number in Bioware's history.
Pros: 1. Beautiful visual. 2. Open world support. 3. Environment destruction. 4. Less cost since it is owned by EA.
Cons: 1. NPC AI. 2. Facial animation.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Jan 26, 2018 13:13:35 GMT
I doubt BioWare has a choice in the matter. Considering that every EA dev has to use Frostbite.
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warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Jan 26, 2018 13:20:15 GMT
I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you mean 'should Bioware develop their own engine or use Frostbite'? I think Frostbite is not a bad choice. At least Bioware managed to build DAI on it. DAI had got 89 on Metacritic and sold probably the most number in Bioware's history. the question is more about, "if they should have fought to keep their own engine" like. Hope that clarifies your doubts.
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An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
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legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jan 26, 2018 13:20:16 GMT
Developing a new engine is VERY expensive in both time and cashmoneyz these days. Taking an existing engine and modifying it is much easier and less time consuming. This should be clear already for everyone.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 26, 2018 13:42:05 GMT
I think Frostbite is fine. While there were some growing pains in getting it to work with an RPG for both DAI and MEA, I'm sure that DA4 development will be smoother as a result. In addition, the benefit to using Frostbite is that they can use the gigantic pool of assets across all EA studios that use it, which is a major advantage.
At this point, the "damage" is done. They've already put in the work, so they may as well continue to use it and keep developing to make it better. Using a different engine for DA4 would set them back even more if the devs had to learn something new.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
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Post by tacsear on Jan 26, 2018 14:31:45 GMT
Don't know much about game engine but Frostbite isn't meant for RPGs that's for certain
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An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
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legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jan 26, 2018 14:39:39 GMT
Don't know much about game engine but Frostbite isn't meant for RPGs that's for certain Originally no, almost none are, but they CAN be modified and have been.
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Post by doflamingodonquijote on Jan 26, 2018 14:47:51 GMT
frostbite was developed for 1st person shooters and car-race games,and it is awesome on them.I don't think they adapted it perfectly for the kind of games like DA.
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Unicephalon 40-D
An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
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Jun 29, 2017 12:57:11 GMT
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legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
LegendCNCD / AsariLoverFI
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jan 26, 2018 15:02:33 GMT
frostbite was developed for 1st person shooters and car-race games,and it is awesome on them.I don't think they adapted it perfectly for the kind of games like DA. No, not perfectly. I think one of the things that held DAI also back was PS3/X360 ports, then again on MEA it may have been the amount of time the game was rushed together. Hoping better implementation next time
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
Prime Likes: 65,767
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Hrungr
More coffee...? More coffee.
29,486
August 2016
hrungr
Hrungr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Hrungr
18,258
65,767
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Post by Hrungr on Jan 26, 2018 15:15:15 GMT
From what I heard, keeping the existing Eclipse engine wasn't really an option. As Mark put it, "Eclipse was mostly binder twine and wishes by the end.". Other devs used words like "bailing wire and bubblegum". And adding to what others have said in the thread, while it sounds like there are definitely challenges with Frostbite, once you've built the things you want... they're built. And there's the advantages of being able to use the features that other studios have built (and continue to build) on it. And on top of that, there's also that big core Frostbite team that continues to improve it as well. I'm hoping that having that foundation already built, that it gets a little easier going forward, even when they're probably looking at adding the next 20 features to it...
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Painkiller3477
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Post by tacsear on Jan 26, 2018 16:23:52 GMT
Don't know much about game engine but Frostbite isn't meant for RPGs that's for certain Originally no, almost none are, but they CAN be modified and have been. I mean it is harder to do RPG elements with Frostbite than it was with the previous engine
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alanc9
Old Scientist Contrarian
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Post by alanc9 on Jan 26, 2018 16:58:36 GMT
Which elements are those, exactly?
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
Posts: 4,535 Likes: 10,214
inherit
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House Targaryen
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
4,535
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thehound
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
gscott7833
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Post by House Targaryen on Jan 26, 2018 17:12:04 GMT
Frostbite is awesome, except that it sucks when it comes to mods. With DAI its one of the first games that I can say gave us realistic facial expressions.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 27, 2018 3:13:27 GMT
Which elements are those, exactly? I keep seeing people say this, but it's never explained. On top of that, how does anyone know that whatever thing was down to some Frostbite limitation and not either an intentional design decision, or simply down to limited resources (man power, time, money, etc). Other than some non-cinematic conversations (keep in mind we still had plenty of these!) and healing (intentional design decision), I don't see what RPG elements were missing from DAI that DAO or DA2 had. There was dialogue, choices, crafting... and if anyone comes up with some other thing, you'd better be able to state how that was down to Frostbite and not, say, that they developed for last gen and current consoles + PC -- five platforms!
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Andraste_Reborn
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,466 Likes: 6,337
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andrastereborn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Jan 27, 2018 5:28:54 GMT
Given that sticking with Eclipse really wasn't an option, I think that going with Frostbite was the best option available. Developing another RPG engine would have been even more expensive and time-consuming than fighting with Frostbite.
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http://bsn.boards.net/threads/recent/143
https://i.imgur.com/1myVt9D.jpg
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Jan 27, 2018 10:52:55 GMT
Which elements are those, exactly? It was either Mike or Aaron who made mention of the difficulties they faced in making Frostbite work for an RPG. I don't know if they ever clarified specifically, but I'd guess things like CC, conversations systems, companion relationships etc. Just a guess, though.
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Iakus
N7
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 20,882 Likes: 49,344
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Iakus
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iakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Iakus on Jan 27, 2018 15:27:55 GMT
I'd be fine with whatever engine doesn't restrict power use as much as DAI was.
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sjsharp2010
N7
Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 10,639 Likes: 18,490
Member is Online
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Go Team!
10,639
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sjsharp2010
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 28, 2018 19:09:54 GMT
I'd be fine with whatever engine doesn't restrict power use as much as DAI was. I don't think engine use had anything to do with that I think that had more to do with making it more console friendly. Personally I have no issues with the Frostbite engine but they need to make sure that from now on they make sure they stamp out more of the bugs before launch than they did for MEA
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Post by inquisitor007 on Jan 29, 2018 0:21:09 GMT
I'm not sure I understand your question. Do you mean 'should Bioware develop their own engine or use Frostbite'? I think Frostbite is not a bad choice. At least Bioware managed to build DAI on it. DAI had got 89 on Metacritic and sold probably the most number in Bioware's history. Pros: 1. Beautiful visual. 2. Open world support. 3. Environment destruction. 4. Less cost since it is owned by EA. Cons: 1. NPC AI. 2. Facial animation. I thought Frostbite worked pretty well for DAI. The open world scenery, imo, is on par with the Witcher 3, and its beauty is under-appreciated by the gaming world at large. The facial animation wasn't much of a problem because they didn't do closeups when you talked to most NPCs. Imo, the only concern was that members of your party could get "out of control" sometimes. All of a sudden Cassandra would do a 5 meter dash and get up on a table when you were standing around. I don't know if that was a result of the engine though.
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lazarillo
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR
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Post by Lazarillo on Jan 29, 2018 1:04:29 GMT
I think Frostbite is fine. While there were some growing pains in getting it to work with an RPG for both DAI and MEA, I'm sure that DA4 development will be smoother as a result. I remember people saying the same about MEA ahead of its release because the "heavy lifting" was done by DAI. Now post release "Frostbite was less than optimal for an RPG" seems to be a frequent comment about problems with the quality of MEA. So I'm not exactly ready to assume that this time, they're totally prepared to use it. Could be, sure, that the third time's the charm. Could also be that it's simply that incompatible with the games they're trying to create.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jan 29, 2018 1:31:12 GMT
I remember people saying the same about MEA ahead of its release because the "heavy lifting" was done by DAI. Now post release "Frostbite was less than optimal for an RPG" seems to be a frequent comment about problems with the quality of MEA. So I'm not exactly ready to assume that this time, they're totally prepared to use it. Except that we learned that a good portion of MEA was developed alongside DAI, so the teams weren't really in a position to take advantage of each other's work. MEA has way better hair, for example. Again though, what RPG qualities are missing or lesser from MEA that aren't down to dev decisions or just general lack of resources (time, money, etc)?
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Post by Lazarillo on Jan 29, 2018 1:36:47 GMT
Again though, what RPG qualities are missing or lesser from MEA that aren't down to dev decisions or just general lack of resources (time, money, etc)? Couldn't tell ya on that, I've yet to play MEA. Just remarking on how frequently I see that comment made. We'll see if it means anything, or not. Heck, as far as DA4 would be, it's entirely possible EA will move all their developers to a different engine by then anyway, so the whole discussion could potentially be moot. And if Frostbite is as bad as we've heard, that might even be a good thing.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2
sicklyhour015
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Post by cloud9 on Feb 10, 2018 4:19:47 GMT
If I'm not mistaken Frostbite is only meant for First Person Shooters, not open world/RPG games. If I were them I would create an engine like CDPR to have versatility to do animations, graphics, texture, and level design for RPG.
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Post by naughtynomad on Feb 10, 2018 6:12:13 GMT
Honestly, I'm of the opinion that Frostbite SUCKS for open world RPGs. That may be because BW doesn't know how to build them properly, or it might be the engine itself. But the fact remains is that we haven't seen a good RPG built on Frostbite.
It was built for FPS games, and it does a good job with that. The best parts of Andromeda was the fast paced combat, and Frostbite really let them play around with that... But it really makes the player feel disconnected from their character, which is a deathblow for RPG games...
PLus no one can mod FRostbite very well... which is another major annoyance.
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