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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2016 19:24:24 GMT
Shepard's status as an Alliance hero was a given, because of where Shepard was in life and what Shepard had accomplished, prior to ME's start. Remember, at the beginning of ME, when Anderson, Udina and Hackett were discussing who to pick ... Shepard had already earned special recognition for past deeds (the specific deeds depend on your choice of Earth-born, Spacer or Colonist and also whether paragon or renegade). If there had been an ME0 ... i.e. a prequel videogame to ME, then we probably would have played out the Shepard backstory.
If I understand correctly, BioWare is starting MEA with the earlier version of Ryder ... so in effect, when compared to where ME started, MEA is Ryder's "prequel" videogame backstory. If there is a trilogy (or a four part series) that carries the Ryder protagonist over from game to game, MEA2 will probably pick up in a place similar to where ME started with Shepard.
So from that perspective, to me Shepard had earned the hero status, but that was contained in the backstory, as opposed to "earned" in game. Ryder, starting earlier in a career, will have the chance to earn status in game. So explicit in game evolution of the character, rather than just a backstory.
But not "special" in the sense of the Inquisitor in DAI. In defense of BioWare, wrt the Inquisitor ... the Inquisitor was marked by chance ... maybe by divine intervention but maybe not. Beyond that, the Inquisitor was ordinary in almost every way ... but slowly grew into the role that was thrust upon the Inquisitor. The doubts, the worries the Inquisitor had ... about the faith others placed in the Inquisitor ... I think that made it interesting.
As Shakespeare wrote, "Some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon them." In reading many of the posts, I think the most pushback is for simply being born great. Shepard achieved greatness. Greatness was thrust upon the Inquisitor in an almost random manner. I'd say Hawke achieved greatness. So BioWare could conceivably go either way in MEA ... since they are not consistently one way or the other in a given franchise. I personally prefer the earned variety.
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Post by Element Zero on Oct 26, 2016 22:25:38 GMT
This doesn't add to the discussion, but may prove useful to forum users. You can delete your posts using the toolbox widget in the upper right corner of the post, just beside "Edit". (That's its position on my iPad interface, at least.) The icon looks like a little gear with a drop-down arrow attached. Inside you will find several options, including "delete post".
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Post by Kappa Neko on Oct 27, 2016 13:32:56 GMT
To me Shepard's story was one of greatness by skill and personality. Shepard was one hell of a soldier, an amazing inspiring leader. Very very capable in combat as well as a smart diplomat when needed. And that's the best story there is imo. Somebody who becomes a legend and arguably a god by strength of spirit, and more importantly, by bringing out the best in everyone else too. Yes, Shepard was special. Space Jesus, absolutely. The religious symbolism was heavy-handed. But it wasn't the traditional chosen one story. Like it was argued before, the beacon only provided information needed to progress the story. Shepard accomplished everything together with her team. That's the important bit and what I absolutely adore about the trilogy: it's all about the power of coorporation. The Crucible is the symbol of this collective effort. Shepard's cycle didn't beat the reapers because Shepard had special magical powers. No, this cycle did it because Shepard united them. That is one hell of an accomplishment but it's something that, in theory, somebody else could have managed too. And the Protheans tried to do it actually before Shepard. But they failed because they had slave races that were not strong. Shepard's story is the story of the entire Milky Way and everyone in it, all about freedom and pooling talent from different species. Of giving second chances, respecting individuality and making use of it.
Shepard made a better person out of everyone she met. THAT was her special power. Shepard believed in her people and they believed in her and TOGETHER they did the impossible. The beauty of Mass Effect is that Shepard could NOT have done it alone. Without Liara they would have failed. She helped make sense of the beacon, Shepard only received the images. Without Cerberus even they would have failed. Without support of the other races they would have failed. In the end it's up to the player to decide why Shepard had such an inspiring personality everybody was willing to follow to hell and back. Whatever it was, it came from within. Somehow Shepard's very essence was special. Whether she was god or simply represented the hero in all of us is up for debate. But it was one hell of a story!
The inquisitor was so lame I'm still not over how bored I was with that character (I loved the game overall, don't get me wrong). The anchor was the laziest setup I have ever seen. Yes, the inquisitor eventually sort of grows into the person everybody believed her to be. But the game does a poor job making me feel like it was earned. Never did I feel like my Lavellan was a leader. She was a symbol. But I felt like everyone else did the real work. Maybe that's just me, but my Dalish didn't even get her people's own story. Everybody was smarter than her. Also, your character goes from nobody to prisoner to worshipped to leading an army waaay too quickly. The beginning was plain bad and it took several hours before I started to enjoy the game. And even then I kept thinking how it woud have been so much cooler to play Cassandra... she could have been a Shepard kind of hero perhaps. Somebody with an actual connection to the situation. Fish out of the water is not my thing.
I personally don't see the appeal of a hero who's marked and has super special powers for no reason. Imo it weakens the story. It's what I'd do if I didn't know how to tell a plausible story. Anybody could have ended up with that green magical arm. It was not earned and didn't really add much to the story other than being this device that was needed to close the rifts. They could have strapped it on a monkey. It didn't even make sense for half of the races to have been there in the first place! It was so random and not exciting, no wonder they moved on quickly. Bioware messed up two prologues in a row. ME3 had an equally rushed intro. Has me worried a bit...
I want Ryder to be a mix of Shepard and Hawke. And I want another trilogy. Mostly because I want Bioware to take their time setting up this character. Nothing wrong with starting out as a nobody. But I want a believable progression. I want to feel like my character is actually growing as a person through experience and strength of character. Like Hawke. Gosh, seeing Hawke in DAI was so painful. If only Hawke didn't receive so much backlash at the time, there could have been a Hawke trilogy in which the bad luck spell ended and s/he became like Shepard. Hawke was famous by DAI but not a savior yet. Could have continued the story.
A huge appeal factor for the Shepard trilogy was seeing not only Shepard but all beloved characters grow and change. Jack goes through a beautiful transformation. Liara changes from a timid awkward archeologist to the kickass shadow broker. You cannot tell such stories in a single game. Shepard as an already established war hero was a HUGE benefit on top of the trilogy arrangement. That's additional time spent on cool stuff rather than wasting it on killing sewer rats on a backwater colony. Bioware did a smart thing with DA2 with the time jumps. Trying to emulate the Mass Effect timeline in a sense by showing characters change over the years. That was not a bad idea at all!
I do like the charm of the small town nobody who departs on an adventure. But it needs to make sense for the setting and it needs to be told well. If the writers are on a word budget and there's no time to really indulge in innocent town life or an underdog story, don't do it! Don't use that beginning. Not every story is good Zelda material. No idea if Andromeda's storyline allows us to play a full transformation from nobody to savior. We'll see. Maybe a series of well-placed time jumps could do the trick. But if ME3 and DAI are any indication, I don't expect a well written introduction.
In any case, I MUCH prefer a self-made hero who rises through the ranks by skill and strength of character, not because they fell into the eezo pot.
Sorry this got so long!
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Post by SilentK on Oct 29, 2016 14:17:51 GMT
Hmm... for me it depends a little on how much time we will spend with Ryder. Are we going to get a new Trilogy with Ryder ME:A1&2&3 or are they going to copy the Dragon Age-style and have a new actor for every game. If we get to have 3 games with Ryder I would be very happy to let the protagonist develop slowly. If we only have the one game, with a few dlc:s then there is less time to fiddle about with. Often I can just adjust my hero to the story.
Keeping my fingers crossed for a new trilogy, it would be so much fun to get a long story.
Ohh.... and never ever let gender determine how a role should play out in combat. Just no. And females automatically better at social stuff and guys automatically getting a debuff. Not in a roleplaying game.
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Post by Lady Artifice on Nov 14, 2016 18:12:16 GMT
Well, the...
antagonist (I'm assuming) said, "what makes you special?" or something to that effect.
Any thoughts on that? Do we know what this inexplicable sense of "specialness" is caused by within the story?
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Post by shechinah on Nov 14, 2016 18:20:25 GMT
Well, the...
antagonist (I'm assuming) said, "what makes you special?" or something to that effect.
Any thoughts on that? Do we know what this inexplicable sense of "specialness" is caused by within the story?
Eh, I don't know yet without the proper context. It could be he's referring to Ryder's status as Pathfinder or their relation to Alec Ryder, the original or current Pathfinder.
It may also be that Alec Ryder accidentally locked some Remnant technology so that only he and his can access it. It really comes down to what he means by special. I'm hoping for one of the formers since I don't see why the latter would really be necessary as a part of the story. Just a small correction but below is his actual quote:
"Now I know what makes you... special."
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Post by Deleted on Nov 14, 2016 21:17:13 GMT
Like with many other things, I'd say that a balanced approach is probably the best. Not a "chosen one", but not an inconsequential speck of dust either. Ideally, I would like to see a protagonist slowly earn their power and influence through their actions. This. One concern I have with Ryder's backstory is that he or she is less experienced than Shepard was at the start of ME1. Shepard begins the series as the Alliance's golden boy/girl, with the opening dialogue from Anderson & Udina establishing that as the reason for Spectre consideration. Dev statements about Andromeda hint that Ryder begins the game greener than Shepard was heading into Eden Prime. While I don't mind a protagonist that isn't their faction's star employee, making the character too green can strain suspension of disbelief. The pathfinder appears to be a position of great responsibility, requiring some degree of experience and leadership ability, since it involves command of a starship and finding new homes for their species in uncharted territory. Additionally it sounds like there is only one pathfinder per species, and with all their hopes being pinned on one person you think they wouldn't give the job to someone who is unproven and completely lacking in experience. Ryder being completely green could maybe work without compromising verisimilitude if the Andromeda Initiative isn't as meritocratic as the Alliance, and he/she gets the job because Dad was a was a founding member for the organization. Or something bad could happen upon arrival in Andromeda, and Ryder isn't the first choice for the job, but gets it because he or she is the best remaining candidate. If they're going to roll with zero experience on the job as Ryder's backstory, I hope they also put some effort into making the selection for pathfinder still plausible.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 14, 2016 21:34:14 GMT
Like with many other things, I'd say that a balanced approach is probably the best. Not a "chosen one", but not an inconsequential speck of dust either. Ideally, I would like to see a protagonist slowly earn their power and influence through their actions. This. 1. One concern I have with Ryder's backstory is that he or she is less experienced than Shepard was at the start of ME1. Shepard begins the series as the Alliance's golden boy/girl, with the opening dialogue from Anderson & Udina establishing that as the reason for Spectre consideration. Dev statements about Andromeda hint that Ryder begins the game greener than Shepard was heading into Eden Prime.2. While I don't mind a protagonist that isn't their faction's star employee, making the character too green can strain suspension of disbelief. The pathfinder appears to be a position of great responsibility, requiring some degree of experience and leadership ability, since it involves command of a starship and finding new homes for their species in uncharted territory. Additionally it sounds like there is only one pathfinder per species, and with all their hopes being pinned on one person you think they wouldn't give the job to someone who is unproven and completely lacking in experience. Ryder being completely green could maybe work without compromising verisimilitude if the Andromeda Initiative isn't as meritocratic as the Alliance, and he/she gets the job because Dad was a was a founding member for the organization. Or something bad could happen upon Arrival in Andromeda, and Ryder isn't the first choice for the job, but gets it because he or she is the best remaining candidate. If they're going to roll with zero experience on the job as Ryder's backstory, I hope they also put some effort into making the selection for Pathfinder still plausible. 1. In the first Mass Effect, Shepard was N7, the very epitome of not being green: the N7s are the best in the Alliance military. Basically, Ryder had to be greener than Shepard to even qualify as being green in the first place.
2. I do agree with this but I should note that it also seems to have been suggested that Ryder is lacking in real experience but not necessarily in ability. Basically, Ryder might have gotten good scores but hasn't yet had much work experience for the lack of a better comparison. It is also possible that the chain of command gets reduced down to Ryder per explodey events, cryo complications or such after something happens to Alec Ryder. Hyperion, humanity's ARK, supposedly ends up at the wrong coordinates and is thus separated from the other ARKs and presumably the Nexus so Ryder might be left in the role and by the time they establish contact with the others, Ryder might have become too involved in the events to be replaced like, say, because of Ryder's interactions with the Khett.
Personally, I'm waiting to see what the context and circumstances of the situation is before I decide how I feel about it.
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Post by shechinah on Nov 17, 2016 17:57:22 GMT
In the Twitter thread, some information from CD Action Magazine got posted and if it turns out to be true then both Ryders were trained as Pathfinders. This would mean that them supposedly being green is likely in terms of field and leadership experience. Ryder having more freedom in terms of abilities is probably due to this as Pathfinders are a combination of soldier, scientist and guide.
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