Raga
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 324 Likes: 622
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ontarah
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Raga on Feb 17, 2018 23:08:54 GMT
But that's just my point. That's literally how *all* Bioware games work except for Shepard & Hawke. 1. BG1 & 2: You are the hero because you are a Bhaalspawn, in fact *the* Bhaalspawn in Alaundo's prophecies. 2. KotoR: You are the hero because you are Revan, albeit with amnesia. 3. JE: You are the hero because you are the last of the Spirit Monks. 4. DAO: You are the hero because you are one of only 2 surviving Grey Wardens in Ferelden during a blight. 5. DAI: You are the hero because you have the mark and are the only one who can close rifts. 6. MEA: You are the hero because you are the one Alec Ryder fulling transferred SAM to. I like this formula. It does a good job of giving me a lot of control over my character because they start as nobody, while also explaining why this nobody would be entrusted with something so important. Didn't play BG and JE so I cannot comment on those. But; KOTOR: Revan is Revan because his leadership abilities and combat skills. He didn't need anything else to make him special. DAO: You survive because Duncan takes note of your skills and thinks you would make a fine addition to the Wardens. Again noting is required except your own talents. As you said that is also the case with Shepard and Hawke. They are all individuals who were capable of doing big things without needing a "plot device". Yeah but Star Wars is arguably the ultimate Chosen One universe. Nobody is somebody in Star Wars without the Force having singled them out for some reason. And Duncan also thought that Jory and Daveth would make good Grey Wardens. There is a baseline competency that a potential Warden candidate has to pass, but they are hardly exotically skilled. Also the only reason you specifically survive is because Cailyn for some reason decided it would be a good idea to send you to the Tower of Ishaal. He appears to have just impulsively liked the looks of you. If that hadn't happened you would almost certainly have died at Ostagar. Your recruitment and survival is largely a thing of chance and your importance is largely because there are only two Grey Wardens left and one of them actively refuses to lead. As for the whole Grey Warden not being a hero thing, I find that somewhat inane. Nothing is stopping the Warden from saying "screw this" and leaving other than the fact that there would be no plot for a game. Nothing is compelling them to remain, and in fact, standard Warden strategy would suggest that Ferelden should be abandoned altogether so that the Wardens can muster their strength and gather allies in other countries for the real fight. Ferelden would be nothing but a delaying action in that case. The Warden and Alistair are really taking it upon themselves to actually draw a line in seriously defending Ferelden. *Edit* Fixed typos from dumb mobile autocorrect
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Sifr on Feb 17, 2018 23:33:42 GMT
Dark Fantasy like Origins. In more general terms, that means not being afraid to shy away from realistic (but unpleasant) topics such as murder, torture and rape. Thedas is not a paradise and not everything there is going to be a bed of roses. If these elements makes us uncomfortable, that should be the point when/if they might occur. That doesn't mean they need to be gratuitous or excessive, nor put in solely for shock value if they don't serve a story purpose. But things like this shouldn't be glossed over for the sake of trying to make the games more palatable for the general audience. We all know that DAO took a lot of notes from ASOIAF. Surely if book readers and television audiences are cool with Westeros being depicted as a crapsack world, why are game devs increasingly sanitising Thedas, when that world is nowhere near as bad in comparison?
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Post by Brannegan on Feb 18, 2018 10:36:05 GMT
I originally played DAO because of how grim the advertisements I saw were and wanted to try something wayyy different from what I usually played. I have adored the setting and tone of the game ever since and I would love for the series to return to it's roots. The dwarf/deep roads section of DAO is pretty much exactly what I'd like to see from Tevinter. There was only grayness there. That is not to say the game should just be 24/7 misery grimdark fest. Some dark humour from NPCs and the good deeds (even from the enemies) would bring out the lightness. Like Behlen having his siblings killed, but at the same time trying to erase class restrictions a bit while the other guy was better choice on the surface but also supported keeping the horrible class system. Or the anvil that would cause suffering but be great against the constant darkspawn threat. An example of a terrible way to do this is the Iron Bull decision in DAI where being politically smart and choosing Qunari leads to basically no benefit (the table missions are 100% ignorable) but choosing with your heart leads to a huge benefit (IB doesn't betray you). I too, would like the protagonist to be less of a chosen one like Inquisitor, and more of an average person who just happens to be swept up into the hero's journey while remaining an average jilljoe who rises through their own power. I would also love if we got more people like Dorian, however controversial, instead of automatically branding every single slave owner a 100% evil mofo who needs killing. It's the sort of grayness I crave. Like Samson saving and caring for that tranquil man. I feel like I did a terrible job explaining what I ment but uh... Gray, lots and lots of gray. All the beautiful various shades of gray. Well, maybe leave the 50 Shades of Gray out
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 18, 2018 16:20:25 GMT
I still firmly believe that Inquisition’s brighter color palette bamboozled people. Just because there are flowers, and the lyrium is candy-apple red, doesn’t suddenly make the world a happy funtime palace.
Like, one of the main themes of DA:I was that there can be a gilded exterior that masks the mundane, everyday evil that’s happening within. Leliana says as much directly to the Inquisitor’s face in Trespasser. Solas (and in Masked Empire, Felassan) say the same about the ancient elves.
People caught up in those situations don’t usually go around composing exposition-laden poems so that future adventurers will know the full extent of their suffering. For them, the suffering is part of their normal. They may not even know that a better life is possible, so they make do. Frequently, evil hides itself in impersonal things like systems and laws, so there’s no easy villain to blame... and in fact well-intentioned people can become complicit without even being aware they’re making a moral choice.
That’s part of what makes “dark” worlds so escapist, I guess. They’re a fantasy world where no one has to actually work to discover where evil is hiding. Where there’s no reading between the lines. Where no one has to worry that they’re participating in evil without knowing it — if they’re evil, they’re only evil on purpose.
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Templar Knight
N2
Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 63 Likes: 57
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by Templar Knight on Feb 18, 2018 16:33:48 GMT
Tevinter is supposed to be a decadent empire on the decline. We might also have a parralel story with Solas who'd better get to terms with past glories, and learn about letting go. On top of it where DAI was in part about faith, in my opinion Tevinter should be more about lies, (Tevinter stealing everything from ancient elven culture and lying, converting to Andrastian faith and lying again about the Blight "Not Us!" , etc...) You add slavery to the mix and the fact that Tevinter is ruthless and very proud of it well... I don't feel like the Qunari conflict, beyond the obvious horror of war is that dark or complex. Qunari loathe magic users, Tevinter are defending themselves. They've been fighting for what 300 years? It's hard to feel bad for either side. On the bright side they have a somewhat vaguely democratic political body with the magisterium. Reformists can have a voice, but er...they also tend to get murdered... Dorian implies it's a beautiful country (he calls Kirkwall a "shithole") full of passionate people. I'd prefer something dark honestly but we might end up in a sunny land full of tsundere. Magisters are appointed at the sole discretion of the Archon. There is an elected lower house of the Senate, but they're basically powerless. So it's more an oligarchy than a democracy - remember, the seats in the Magisterium are divided between the top families (probably of ancient Dreamer descent), the Black Divine and grand clerics, and Enchanters from the 7 Circles of Magi. On the other hand, the fact new ones can be appointed rather than it being strictly hereditary means there is a potential in for outsiders - like how Danarius was supposedly going to make Fenris' sister a magister - but it's probably not that likely to happen.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Feb 18, 2018 17:33:47 GMT
I still firmly believe that Inquisition’s brighter color palette bamboozled people. Just because there are flowers, and the lyrium is candy-apple red, doesn’t suddenly make the world a happy funtime palace. True. I think the baseline tone of DAI was purposely set lighter in order to provide a point of comparison with quests and maps that they wanted to show as decidedly grimdark: In Hushed Whispers, Champions of the Just, The Exalted Plains, and the Fallow Mire, for example. If everything was as grimdark as IHW, there'd be no shock value and no emotional motivation to do something to prevent that future from happening. But there's the rub, I think. Perhaps in trying to create a contrast for IHW, etc., they went too far and made the baseline tone of the rest of DAI too light. Maybe, just maybe, the intention was for the baseline tone of DAI to appear light as an illusion, and every time your PC dug beneath the surface, horrible grimdark would be revealed. I think DAO did a much better job of this, particularly in Denerim, but in DAI, I think they were only successful in Wicked Eyes, Wicked Hearts.
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 18, 2018 19:09:15 GMT
Maybe, just maybe, the intention was for the baseline tone of DAI to appear light as an illusion, and every time your PC dug beneath the surface, horrible grimdark would be revealed. I wonder if perhaps a different villain would have underscored that idea more strongly. Corypheus is both evil and physically ugly, so there’s more of an impulse to take appearances at face value. But one thing that I was sort of realizing recently — the Inquisitor actually runs into more slavers (for example) than the Warden. It’s just that they don’t twirl their mustaches and say YES HELLO I AM A SLAVER NOW MY BLOOD RITUAL OF INNOCENTS MUST BEGIN MUAHAHAHA. They leave all the mustache-twirling and blood rituals to the magisters... whom they are supplying with slaves. To the slavers themselves, this is just business, and they consider it normal. And that’s far scarier than “oh, there are only a few messed-up people who would do this, and they’re doing it with full awareness of their depravity.”
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR
Painkiller3477
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Post by tacsear on Feb 18, 2018 19:43:13 GMT
Didn't play BG and JE so I cannot comment on those. But; KOTOR: Revan is Revan because his leadership abilities and combat skills. He didn't need anything else to make him special. DAO: You survive because Duncan takes note of your skills and thinks you would make a fine addition to the Wardens. Again noting is required except your own talents. As you said that is also the case with Shepard and Hawke. They are all individuals who were capable of doing big things without needing a "plot device". Yeah but Star Wars is arguably the ultimate Chosen One universe. Nobody is somebody in Star Wars without the Force having singled them out for some reason. And Duncan also thought that Jory and Daveth would make good Grey Wardens. There is a baseline competency that a potential Warden candidate has to pass, but they are hardly exotically skilled. Also the only reason you specifically survive is because Cailyn for some reason decided it would be a good idea to send you to the Tower of Ishaal. He appears to have just impulsively liked the looks of you. If that hadn't happened you would almost certainly have died at Ostagar. Your recruitment and survival is largely a thing of chance and your importance is largely because there are only two Grey Wardens left and one of them actively refuses to lead. As for the whole Grey Warden not being a hero thing, I find that somewhat inane. Nothing is stopping the Warden from saying "screw this" and leaving other than the fact that there would be no plot for a game. Nothing is compelling them to remain, and in fact, standard Warden strategy would suggest that Ferelden should be abandoned altogether so that the Wardens can muster their strength and gather allies in other countries for the real fight. Ferelden would be nothing but a delaying action in that case. The Warden and Alistair are really taking it upon themselves to actually draw a line in seriously defending Ferelden. *Edit* Fixed typos from dumb mobile autocorrect From what I remember Anakin Skywalker is the only chosen one in the SW universe. Others are just exceptional people with (or sometimes without) the Force. They can be strong with the force but it's like having strong magical abilities to help you, not being about a chasen one. Cousland: A renown warrior. Amell/Surana: Talented mages Brosca: Didn't play this one but I think you win a tournament and Duncan was watching. Aeducan: You are a talented warrior and prince/princess Tabris: Again Duncan sees how talented you are. Don't know the reasoning behind Cailen's actions but it really doesn't change the fact that Warden is there because s/he is talented. I didn't say Wardens aren't heroes as far as I remember.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Giant Ambush Beetle on Feb 19, 2018 12:20:49 GMT
With Solas and his Elite Elves trying to bring down the veil I suspect DA4 to become a glorified bug hunt. I hope I am wrong.
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Wulfram
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
Origin: wulfram77
Posts: 489 Likes: 837
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by Wulfram on Feb 20, 2018 15:34:32 GMT
I think Dragon Age should be dark but also hopeful. It shouldn't shy away from showing us the bad, but we should generally have a decent shot at making things better.
DAI's problem for me was that the presentation of the open world, particularly the lack of zoomed in conversations, created distance rather than empathy. Since the open world areas were where the problems of ordinary people were largely shown, this meant that a lot of the dark things didn't really have the emotional impact they should. Also, the open world pushed the game towards showing wilderness, not people.
In a future game set in Tevinter, I would hope the game wouldn't hide from the horrors of slavery, but I'd also expect that the player would be able to fight it, in various ways.
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Post by phoray on Feb 20, 2018 16:04:10 GMT
It should be a war setting, with the Qunari invading or sieging Tevinter. But not immediately. The weight of war is lost when you have nothing to compare it to. I hope they do sort of "acts" but not over 7 years, more like over 12-18 months. I want to see Tevinter before it's destroyed. Like HAven being attacked would be nothing if we hadn't hung out in it for several hours. be in the role they will be because of things they can do, Yes. like I want to be a slave who networks with other leading slaves into an uprising. For one reason or another, I'm the final one standing at the end of this uprising, and I become the Voice of the Rebellion. But I earned that, because I was part of it. THEN and only then do I get to rub shoulders with the Magisters as I make clear the demands of the ex slaves. Shortly after this is negotiated (with lots of opportunity to screw over you fellow slaves for perks) the Qunari invade. Tevinter should be more about lies, I like this idea. But I also want a lot of truth as those lies are destroyed. I don't want a he said/she said but this spirit said, and this book said to explain things.
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MediocreOgre
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 484 Likes: 1,402
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by MediocreOgre on Feb 26, 2018 18:55:51 GMT
Maybe, just maybe, the intention was for the baseline tone of DAI to appear light as an illusion, and every time your PC dug beneath the surface, horrible grimdark would be revealed. I wonder if perhaps a different villain would have underscored that idea more strongly. Corypheus is both evil and physically ugly, so there’s more of an impulse to take appearances at face value. But one thing that I was sort of realizing recently — the Inquisitor actually runs into more slavers (for example) than the Warden. It’s just that they don’t twirl their mustaches and say YES HELLO I AM A SLAVER NOW MY BLOOD RITUAL OF INNOCENTS MUST BEGIN MUAHAHAHA. They leave all the mustache-twirling and blood rituals to the magisters... whom they are supplying with slaves. To the slavers themselves, this is just business, and they consider it normal. And that’s far scarier than “oh, there are only a few messed-up people who would do this, and they’re doing it with full awareness of their depravity.” Mhm. I think if DAI was a book it would read about as grim dark as DAO the book. But as a game, with visual elements, DAI shows less grim dark elements and lets you read about it or downplays everything instead by using a lot of accompanying exposition and everything feels like all the dark stuff happened right before you arrived. Take the sacrifice of Isolde to save Connor in DAO which was shown pretty brutally. Compare that to the blood sacrifices in DAI with Cory and the divine (which felt comical to me what with T-pose divine floating above you and “super spooky” black smoke and you wandering in doped up non chalantly asking what’s going on like you’ve seen this all before). Or the warden blood rituals in the western approach. Everything feels like you just missed it and the villains are explaining what you were too late for. Even the big disaster in DAI is as dark as DAO hypothetically. The conclave explosion is implied to be fairly brutal. But it felt less menacing to me than Ostagar. In in general I think DAI tried to tell us more than show us. The WAr TAble is another example of that. Compare lavellan acccidentally killing their family in the war table to cousland losing their family in DAO. Equally dark themes, just one is text/exposition, the other we see. So maybe DA4 should show us and not tell us how dark things are and have our protagonist be there for the cool stuff instead of playing catch up.
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Post by arvaarad on Feb 27, 2018 21:50:55 GMT
I wonder if perhaps a different villain would have underscored that idea more strongly. Corypheus is both evil and physically ugly, so there’s more of an impulse to take appearances at face value. But one thing that I was sort of realizing recently — the Inquisitor actually runs into more slavers (for example) than the Warden. It’s just that they don’t twirl their mustaches and say YES HELLO I AM A SLAVER NOW MY BLOOD RITUAL OF INNOCENTS MUST BEGIN MUAHAHAHA. They leave all the mustache-twirling and blood rituals to the magisters... whom they are supplying with slaves. To the slavers themselves, this is just business, and they consider it normal. And that’s far scarier than “oh, there are only a few messed-up people who would do this, and they’re doing it with full awareness of their depravity.” Mhm. I think if DAI was a book it would read about as grim dark as DAO the book. But as a game, with visual elements, DAI shows less grim dark elements and lets you read about it or downplays everything instead by using a lot of accompanying exposition and everything feels like all the dark stuff happened right before you arrived. Take the sacrifice of Isolde to save Connor in DAO which was shown pretty brutally. Compare that to the blood sacrifices in DAI with Cory and the divine (which felt comical to me what with T-pose divine floating above you and “super spooky” black smoke and you wandering in doped up non chalantly asking what’s going on like you’ve seen this all before). Or the warden blood rituals in the western approach. Everything feels like you just missed it and the villains are explaining what you were too late for. Even the big disaster in DAI is as dark as DAO hypothetically. The conclave explosion is implied to be fairly brutal. But it felt less menacing to me than Ostagar. In in general I think DAI tried to tell us more than show us. The WAr TAble is another example of that. Compare lavellan acccidentally killing their family in the war table to cousland losing their family in DAO. Equally dark themes, just one is text/exposition, the other we see. So maybe DA4 should show us and not tell us how dark things are and have our protagonist be there for the cool stuff instead of playing catch up. It’s probably down to personal taste, but I don’t find “ugly evil” as menacing as “pretty evil”. “Ugly evil” comes with the reassuring message that evil won’t ever happen under my nose. I’ll see some Obviously Bad situation, and will have to decide how to proceed from there. Do I participate or not? But I always know what I’m choosing to participate in. Contrast with “pretty evil”. There’s something deeply, existentially horrifying about the fact that people can cause evil things without even realizing they’re making a moral choice. It’s not a case of “oh, I’m doing this bad thing but in the long term the benefit outweighs the cost.” It’s more like “I did something neutral, and the evil side effects are a shock to me.” It’s the difference between “I willingly made a deal with the devil in exchange for XYZ benefits” and “I didn’t realize I was even talking to the devil”.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 3, 2018 2:19:53 GMT
I prefer the character to be a hero, but a mundane one. I don't want some mystical prophecy telling me I need to slay Whozit and Whatzit. And I don't one some crazy magical doomsday device. The former has been done to death, and the latter is good if you want to play with gameplay things, but don't make it a plot point. Or at least, not the only plot point.
I still think the hero should be unique: This is the man we spend time in the CC making, so we're going to have that emotional investment. But he doesn't need a magic super-signet or some destiny to do that. Make me earn a name for myself, even if I do it unintentionally. Then I like it.
I advise against grimdark. If I have to be evil, I will not purchase. I need to want to succeed in order to invest myself.
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Kabraxal
N4
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 1,004 Likes: 2,731
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Feb 23, 2017 18:40:36 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Kabraxal on Mar 4, 2018 7:12:03 GMT
DA:I and Origins hit the sweet spot... the meld of dark and high fantasy that is still unmatched in any medium, let alone gaming. It’s got its darkness, but unlike cliched drek like ASoIaF that revels in blood and misery, it offers hope when it is needed. DA2 is much like what some here want, and while good, its grim tone dragged the game diwn from the GReatest of all time tier to simply “great game” tier.
Do not trekdown that grimey roas again DA. Let other franchises thrash about in the muck while you create something far more powerful.
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Prince
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Post by Prince on Mar 5, 2018 16:21:17 GMT
Dark Fantasy like Origins. In more general terms, that means not being afraid to shy away from realistic (but unpleasant) topics such as murder, torture and rape. Thedas is not a paradise and not everything there is going to be a bed of roses. If these elements makes us uncomfortable, that should be the point when/if they might occur. That doesn't mean they need to be gratuitous or excessive, nor put in solely for shock value if they don't serve a story purpose. But things like this shouldn't be glossed over for the sake of trying to make the games more palatable for the general audience. We all know that DAO took a lot of notes from ASOIAF. Surely if book readers and television audiences are cool with Westeros being depicted as a crapsack world, why are game devs increasingly sanitising Thedas, when that world is nowhere near as bad in comparison? Origins is a game where you can't fail so I wouldn't classify it as "Dark",but of course it all depends on what you mean by dark.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by phoray on Mar 5, 2018 16:33:12 GMT
I prefer the character to be a hero, but a mundane one. I . But he doesn't need a magic super-signet or some destiny to do that. Make me earn a name for myself, even if I do it unintentionally. yaaaaaa, yer speaking my language. Hawke earns everything they end up with, 100%! No more special marks that maim me when they're removed! I advise against grimdark. Yes! Playing Witcher 3 for the second time, there is a small quest where the two options are One PErson dies or tons of people die. Screw that! I prefer the balance of Positives and NEgatives in the Gaspard/Celene/Briala decision. They all suck, but they all have strengths too. You were not depressed from the outcome!
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https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Mar 6, 2018 14:26:00 GMT
Well, grimdark should be an appropriate tone seeing where we are going, but don't worry about it, it will probably have the same tone as Inquisition or even lighter.
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Post by ShadowAngel on Mar 6, 2018 19:04:40 GMT
If we go to tevinter, I'd want something like origins tone but I had little issue with any of the 3 dragon age games when it came to tone.
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helios969
N4
Kamisama
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: helios969
Prime Posts: No Clue
Prime Likes: Who Cares
Posts: 1,853 Likes: 2,478
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August 2016
helios969
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
helios969
No Clue
Who Cares
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Post by helios969 on Mar 6, 2018 22:01:02 GMT
To quote the best dwarf in the DA-series: Mayhem!
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MediocreOgre
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 484 Likes: 1,402
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MediocreOgre
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Jan 31, 2017 21:37:42 GMT
January 2017
mediocreogre
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by MediocreOgre on Mar 7, 2018 2:06:27 GMT
DA:I and Origins hit the sweet spot... the meld of dark and high fantasy that is still unmatched in any medium, let alone gaming. It’s got its darkness, but unlike cliched drek like ASoIaF that revels in blood and misery, it offers hope when it is needed. DA2 is much like what some here want, and while good, its grim tone dragged the game diwn from the GReatest of all time tier to simply “great game” tier. Do not trekdown that grimey roas again DA. Let other franchises thrash about in the muck while you create something far more powerful. Yep. Personally tone of the game is not my biggest concern as I really think the three games have been fairly consistent. DA2 was a tad more melancholy. I’m more concerned about presentation. We’ve basically got a spectrum of presenting the world/story on a micro/personal level (DA2) or the macro/societal level (DAI) with origins in the middle. I for one felt DAI was too detached and broad with the Inquisitor being kind of ephemeral and ungrounded (kind of like an elder scrolls character) and the role our character played in the story was a little too important and unsubtle. The debate of being the herald of andraste didn’t matter. Because you still had super powers and the world bent to your whims, a la the Dragonborn. You were the inquisitor. Which was about as loaded as herald of andraste by the end. Stories that zoomthat far out from intimate world building are hard to pull off to make you invested in a character. DAI was more successful than most super epic, power fantasy, world shaping stories. But I’d prefer we get to become a little more emotionally invested with the people of Tevinter and our next protagonist. DAO still had world shaping threats and you were kind of a super hero, but you felt more grounded, more fragile, more real and the world did too. Which I liked. To to me that’s less a tone issue and more a structural issue of how you tell a story.
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February 2017
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Post by mugwump on Mar 7, 2018 12:30:22 GMT
Depends largely on the story Bioware plan to tell, though a game embracing the earthy approach of Origins, with a smattering of the fantastical (thinking DA:I fade), sounds delicious to me.
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MediocreOgre
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
Posts: 484 Likes: 1,402
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MediocreOgre
484
Jan 31, 2017 21:37:42 GMT
January 2017
mediocreogre
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR
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Post by MediocreOgre on Mar 7, 2018 16:13:42 GMT
Depends entirely on the story Bioware plan to tell, though a game embracing the earthy approach of Origins, with a smattering of the fantastical (thinking DA:I fade), sounds delicious to me. In the abstract DAO and DAI tell pretty much the same story. An exceptional hero with exceptional powers who represents/leads an infamous organization must overcome a dysfunctional world and unite disparate forces to save the world from a Blighted threat that only the hero can stop with their unique powers. Bread and butter fantasy story. It’s relatively little things that dress the two stories up to make them feel vastly different. Structurally DAO focuses on a rag tag crew and their interaction with a world that felt like it had the upper hand on our motley team. DAI focused on an elite organization of trained professionals as they beat the world over the head to submit. Weirdly both settings had our heroes spending a lot of time in the wilds. DAO because we were a fugitive, DAI because Skyrim was popular and cities are hard.
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Absafraginlootly
"Abso-fraggin-lutely!" ~ Captain John Sheridan and Satai Delenn
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September 2016
absafraginlootly
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Absafraginlootly on Mar 18, 2018 8:08:00 GMT
Whilst DAI and DAO are both epics that involve gathering forces to defeat a great evil they go about it in a very different way. The warden has to do this from the weakened position of a wanted fugitive who only has one other warden & a handful of companions to help them. The Inquisitor is the Herald of Andraste with a steadly increasing army of followers when they go from place to place solving problems.
Each of them has to resolve a potential allies issues before they get their help. But the sources of those issues are different.
In DAI each problem you resolve is caused by the Enemy, the mages are being controlled by Alexius who works for Corypheus, the templars by the envy demon, another cory minion. You don't resolve the mage-templar war or pick a side in it, you rescue one group from corypheus's control. At the winter palace you go to stop corys assassins/minion, affecting who controls the empire is optional. The wardens are being tricked by corypheus and his servant and then becoming enslaved to the fear demon working for him. You have to stop Cory from getting anything from the elven ruins. The world has its own problems, but the ones caused by Corypheus are the focus.
Whereas the problems that the Warden must face to get allies are those groups own fault, not caused by the Archdemon. The Dalish can't help because they're under attack from cursed creatures their own keeper cursed , for a crime their ancestors commited. The dwarves are bickering over their own succession and won't help till they have a king, having lost the last one to patricide. Ferelden infighting and Isoldes refusal to send her child to the circle (and the problems with the circle itself) created Arl Eamons predicament. Chantry oppression and demonic corruption make it so the warden can't get help from the circle. You must overcome loghains influence over the landsmeet, his paranoia isn't caused by any evil or corrupting force, but is his own. There's more focus on the worlds own problems before you deal with the big bad problem.
For what it seems like da4 might be - a balance between these approaches might be best. Solas being a much more complex villian than the archdemon doesn't lend itself to his plans entirely taking the back seat, but Tevinters got a lot of problems that we haven't seen up close before so I don't think having all the main quests being about his plans is a good idea either.
So maybe instead of having all the main quest problems being Enemy problems or World problems have a combination of both. And given that Trespasser emphasises that stopping Solas will requires stealth/subtelty its probably better the protagonist lean toward minimal support and not a large, unwieldly and easily infiltrated organisation.
This assumes that da4 is a epic and they're not going for something different. Like da2, which is a tragedy about the worlds problems and an individual families problems with no single overarching big bad.
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Marduk
N2
Through Eluvians and beyond
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 220 Likes: 183
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Marduk
Through Eluvians and beyond
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March 2017
marduk
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Marduk on Mar 19, 2018 9:38:58 GMT
Fifty shades darker
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