Tuchanka Love
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Post by Tuchanka Love on Oct 4, 2016 12:37:41 GMT
I get the feeling that, of course if you don't kill Leliana or drive her away in DAO, she's in love with your warden despite if you're together or not. In Inquisition some scenes made me wonder that. Like when Cullen said that Leliana has a weak spot for wardens, for instance. What do you think?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Oct 4, 2016 12:46:19 GMT
No. She referred to my Warden as a trusted friend and I didn't detect any wistfulness in her voice. That can certainly be part of your headcanon, but I don't believe it is reflected in the game itself.
Also, Cullen's line doesn't necessarily have to refer to anything romantic. It could just be that, due to her experiences with the Blight, Leliana has great admiration and respect for the Grey Wardens in general. That's why she sends you out to find Blackwall, because she has those positive feelings about Wardens and thinks he could be helpful in the current situation, not because she heard what a big bear he is and wants to jump his bones.
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Prince
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Post by Prince on Oct 4, 2016 12:47:21 GMT
That was a reference to Blackwall and his beard.
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Post by Blaze on Oct 6, 2016 9:58:01 GMT
having romanced leliana in my first playthrough (since how can i not? ) and i can say as a fact, there is a noticeable difference in the dialogue with leliana between a romanced warden and non romanced warden. also if you destory the urn of sacred ashes she is even bitter toward the warden
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Post by phoray on Oct 6, 2016 13:57:43 GMT
I've romanced Leliana one play through. Got ninjamanced and had to shut her down the next play through. Showing disinterest towards Leliana, as a woman anyway, is very subtle and respectful. I thought it well done.
Any who, since the shut down, Leliana has only been friendly. She's not obsessive about keeping a torch for someone who told her they weren't interested.
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Post by gervaise21 on Oct 6, 2016 18:12:19 GMT
As others have said, Leliana feels a connection to the Wardens because of her experiences in the 5th Blight. She also does not have any fond memories of Morrigan. Apart from their potential rivalry for a male Warden's affections, I presume this is because either she abandoned the squad (having been rejected for the Dark Ritual) or slept with the Warden (if male) or was using dubious ancient magical rituals (if the Warden is female).
Anyway, I don't think there is any suggestion that romancing the Warden is canon, although I have to admit that a Warden in a romance with Leliana does seem to get a better ending than anyone apart from a Warden who romanced Morrigan, did the Dark Ritual and when through the eluvian with her.
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Post by phoray on Oct 6, 2016 18:40:21 GMT
As others have said, Leliana feels a connection to the Wardens because of her experiences in the 5th Blight. She also does not have any fond memories of Morrigan. Apart from their potential rivalry for a male Warden's affections, I presume this is because either she abandoned the squad (having been rejected for the Dark Ritual) or slept with the Warden (if male) or was using dubious ancient magical rituals (if the Warden is female). Anyway, I don't think there is any suggestion that romancing the Warden is canon, although I have to admit that a Warden in a romance with Leliana does seem to get a better ending than anyone apart from a Warden who romanced Morrigan, did the Dark Ritual and when through the eluvian with her. Zevran hangs out with Warden while s/he looks for the Cure to the Taint. Only LI that gets to remain WITH the Warden for that, so that's a pretty good outcome.
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polaris
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Post by polaris on Oct 6, 2016 18:56:02 GMT
having romanced leliana in my first playthrough (since how can i not? ) and i can say as a fact, there is a noticeable difference in the dialogue with leliana between a romanced warden and non romanced warden. also if you destory the urn of sacred ashes she is even bitter toward the warden At least she understands that people other than Bioware decides what 'death' actually means. :mad:
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Blaze
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Post by Blaze on Oct 6, 2016 22:58:37 GMT
having romanced leliana in my first playthrough (since how can i not? ) and i can say as a fact, there is a noticeable difference in the dialogue with leliana between a romanced warden and non romanced warden. also if you destory the urn of sacred ashes she is even bitter toward the warden At least she understands that people other than Bioware decides what 'death' actually means. :mad: well they kinda pulled the 6th sense on us on that front
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Post by oyabun on Oct 6, 2016 23:09:22 GMT
Leliana is like the clouds,good for headcanons.
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Post by oyabun on Oct 6, 2016 23:14:28 GMT
As others have said, Leliana feels a connection to the Wardens because of her experiences in the 5th Blight. She also does not have any fond memories of Morrigan. Apart from their potential rivalry for a male Warden's affections, I presume this is because either she abandoned the squad (having been rejected for the Dark Ritual) or slept with the Warden (if male) or was using dubious ancient magical rituals (if the Warden is female). Anyway, I don't think there is any suggestion that romancing the Warden is canon, although I have to admit that a Warden in a romance with Leliana does seem to get a better ending than anyone apart from a Warden who romanced Morrigan, did the Dark Ritual and when through the eluvian with her. Nah that's a matter of preferences,Leliana gain points for me from being in Trespasser and a potential Divine while the warden gain another mention,overall the story of Morrigan just seem the story of someone who was being played from DAO to DAI.
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Post by polaris on Oct 7, 2016 1:55:25 GMT
At least she understands that people other than Bioware decides what 'death' actually means. :mad: well they kinda pulled the 6th sense on us on that front No they didn't. Sixth sense was well written. The Lellianna retcon was bad writing all the way down. DG should be ashamed of what he wrote regarding that back then.
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Post by Prince on Oct 7, 2016 2:54:30 GMT
well they kinda pulled the 6th sense on us on that front No they didn't. Sixth sense was well written. The Lellianna retcon was bad writing all the way down. DG should be ashamed of what he wrote regarding that back then. DG should be more ashamed for how he implemented the Well of sorrow questline since felt out of place in DAI.
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thesupremedarkone
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Post by thesupremedarkone on Oct 7, 2016 3:53:48 GMT
I love how everyone talks about Leliana being revived yet always completely ignores Anders and Justice being retconned into always being recruited regardless of your actual choices.
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polaris
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Post by polaris on Oct 7, 2016 4:05:27 GMT
I love how everyone talks about Leliana being revived yet always completely ignores Anders and Justice being retconned into always being recruited regardless of your actual choices. I wouldn't say that. I seem to remember plenty of people (including yours truly) exoriate Bioware for the way they handled Anders and his retcon. However, unlike Lelianna, at least in the case of Anders Bioware didn't try to defend the indefensible.
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Post by Blaze on Oct 7, 2016 4:07:17 GMT
well they kinda pulled the 6th sense on us on that front No they didn't. Sixth sense was well written. The Lellianna retcon was bad writing all the way down. DG should be ashamed of what he wrote regarding that back then. way to miss the joke dear
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Post by Walter Black on Oct 7, 2016 15:26:08 GMT
No they didn't. Sixth sense was well written. The Lellianna retcon was bad writing all the way down. DG should be ashamed of what he wrote regarding that back then. DG should be more ashamed for how he implemented the Well of sorrow questline since felt out of place in DAI. Did David Gaider actually write What Pride Hath Wrought? I honestly can't remember. Just out of curiosity, what exactly about WPHW did you find so objectionable?
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Post by polaris on Oct 7, 2016 16:26:49 GMT
DG should be more ashamed for how he implemented the Well of sorrow questline since felt out of place in DAI. Did David Gaider actually write What Pride Hath Wrought? I honestly can't remember. Just out of curiosity, what exactly about WPHW did you find so objectionable? I was referring to his commentary online that Bioware and only bioware determined what was dead or not regardless of what you thought you did as a player. IMHO he showed utter arrogance and blatent disrespect for his audience and IMHO that is a sin Bioware has suffered from in recent years.
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Post by Walter Black on Oct 7, 2016 16:37:34 GMT
Did David Gaider actually write What Pride Hath Wrought? I honestly can't remember. Just out of curiosity, what exactly about WPHW did you find so objectionable? I was referring to his commentary online that Bioware and only bioware determined what was dead or not regardless of what you thought you did as a player. IMHO he showed utter arrogance and blatent disrespect for his audience and IMHO that is a sin Bioware has suffered from in recent years. Umm... What Pride Hath Wrought was about securing the Well of Sorrows, and as far as I know had nothing to do with Lelianna's resurrection. The cold hard truth is Bioware cannot account for every single player variant, and have to pick a canon if they want to move the franchise forward. You could argue that Nightingale could have been a replacement character, as with Mordin/Padok Wiks, but that's another thread entirely.
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Post by polaris on Oct 7, 2016 17:07:36 GMT
I was referring to his commentary online that Bioware and only bioware determined what was dead or not regardless of what you thought you did as a player. IMHO he showed utter arrogance and blatent disrespect for his audience and IMHO that is a sin Bioware has suffered from in recent years. Umm... What Pride Hath Wrought was about securing the Well of Sorrows, and as far as I know had nothing to do with Lelianna's resurrection. The cold hard truth is Bioware cannot account for every single player variant, and have to pick a canon if they want to move the franchise forward. You could argue that Nightingale could have been a replacement character, as with Mordin/Padok Wiks, but that's another thread entirely. That's a lame excuse for how they handled Lelianna, and I think we both know it. If you don't want Lel to die, then don't permit that to happen in Origins. If you do give the player the choice, that choice needs to be respected. Doing otherwise shows blatent disregard and disrespect to your core audience.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 8, 2016 1:02:53 GMT
Did David Gaider actually write What Pride Hath Wrought? I honestly can't remember. Just out of curiosity, what exactly about WPHW did you find so objectionable? I was referring to his commentary online that Bioware and only bioware determined what was dead or not regardless of what you thought you did as a player. IMHO he showed utter arrogance and blatent disrespect for his audience and IMHO that is a sin Bioware has suffered from in recent years. I think the gist of it was that "finishing moves" in DAO are not canon. Therefore defeating Leliana=/=you chopped her head off. The Warden may have fought her, even mortally wounded her. But did not,a s it turned out, killed her. Me I'd be more p*ssed about Oghren showing up in Awakening if you killed him in DAO. That was far more cut and dried "you killed him"
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Post by Iakus on Oct 8, 2016 1:04:31 GMT
Umm... What Pride Hath Wrought was about securing the Well of Sorrows, and as far as I know had nothing to do with Lelianna's resurrection. The cold hard truth is Bioware cannot account for every single player variant, and have to pick a canon if they want to move the franchise forward. You could argue that Nightingale could have been a replacement character, as with Mordin/Padok Wiks, but that's another thread entirely. That's a lame excuse for how they handled Lelianna, and I think we both know it. If you don't want Lel to die, then don't permit that to happen in Origins. If you do give the player the choice, that choice needs to be respected. Doing otherwise shows blatent disregard and disrespect to your core audience.The choice wasn't to kill Leliana, though. The choice was to taint the ashes with dragon blood Which you can do. Leliana attacking you is a consequence of that choice.
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Post by polaris on Oct 8, 2016 5:21:33 GMT
That's a lame excuse for how they handled Lelianna, and I think we both know it. If you don't want Lel to die, then don't permit that to happen in Origins. If you do give the player the choice, that choice needs to be respected. Doing otherwise shows blatent disregard and disrespect to your core audience.The choice wasn't to kill Leliana, though. The choice was to taint the ashes with dragon blood Which you can do. Leliana attacking you is a consequence of that choice. The choice was most definitely made to kill Lelianna. You can make her go away, not take her, ect. You have to do a very specific set of things to kill her which is canonical, and very much a conscious player decision.
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Post by Iakus on Oct 8, 2016 13:18:41 GMT
The choice wasn't to kill Leliana, though. The choice was to taint the ashes with dragon blood Which you can do. Leliana attacking you is a consequence of that choice. The choice was most definitely made to kill Lelianna. You can make her go away, not take her, ect. You have to do a very specific set of things to kill her which is canonical, and very much a conscious player decision. It's not a conscious choice without metagame knowledge.
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Post by polaris on Oct 8, 2016 14:40:39 GMT
The choice was most definitely made to kill Lelianna. You can make her go away, not take her, ect. You have to do a very specific set of things to kill her which is canonical, and very much a conscious player decision. It's not a conscious choice without metagame knowledge. Sure it is. Even if you bring her, she gives you dialog option to essentially force her to stand down (if only in fear). You have to deliberately choose to have the confrontation there. Not only that, but it's irrelevant whether it's metagame knowledge or not. The player made a choice with a specific consequence and a very clear consequence at that. That CHOICE should be respected and Bioware didn't. Bottom line.
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