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Post by phoray on Mar 17, 2018 18:24:41 GMT
Heh its so rare to see anyone going out and actually actively defending EA I am not sure what to believe. I just do not tend to study the studio trends of many other companies outside of BioWare but the story of Visceral does seem to match the story of BioWare right now, hopefully to a different ending though. I hadn't gotten the impression that DA was going through "Dev Hell". The tweets seem relaxed and optimistic in spite of Mike Laidlaw leaving.
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 17, 2018 18:31:16 GMT
Heh its so rare to see anyone going out and actually actively defending EA I am not sure what to believe. I just do not tend to study the studio trends of many other companies outside of BioWare but the story of Visceral does seem to match the story of BioWare right now, hopefully to a different ending though. Visceral's main problem was that senior devs had left, and they didn't have a project available for them to work on when the Star Wars game fell through. BioWare isn't in the same situation, they have a new DA4 project waiting in the wings to put their staff on, also SWTOR, and they also just invested in making a bigger building for Edmonton as well as getting new tax breaks for game dev in Alberta, which will cheapen working there. I'm not saying that some heads wouldn't likely roll if Anthem failed, those in charge of it would have some explaining to do, it's just unlikely they'd close the studio, or cancel DA4 specially when they already put work into it,
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Post by CHRrOME on Mar 17, 2018 18:44:32 GMT
I'm no fan at all of Anthem (in reality, I still don't know what type of game it's gonna be, but anything resembling Destiny it's meh for me), and I am pissed at Bioware. However, I honestly want it to succeed even if I don't give a fuck about the game, because EA could be targeting Bioware if it fails.
I still think that Bioware is one of the top companies under EA's wing, so they're not gonna close it lightly, and Bio will really have to fuck things up to force EA to dig another grave. But honestly It's no good for anyone to wish them ill. I just want my games good like they used to be, don't want Mass Effect to die, nor do I want Dragon Age to die. I want the old Bioware back.
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talyn82
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Talyn82
PSN: Talyn82
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Post by talyn82 on Mar 17, 2018 20:41:14 GMT
I hope this never happens. I've been a fan of all of their games except for the Mass Effect series and that is because I don't like male Shepard. I like Tali, Wrex, and Garrus. But not Shepard. But back on topic. I always look forward to the next big BioWare RPG. I never heard of Anthem until I came back to this board. But I hope it sells well.
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Post by river82 on Mar 17, 2018 20:48:09 GMT
It's sad that you regard selling four million copies as a failure. Most people regarded it as a failure, especially considering it cost 60 million dollars to make (not including marketing, and remembering that EA only gets a percentage of all games sold, a little over 50% hard copy and 70% of all Steam sales). Visceral took EA's money and failed to give EA a good return. For perspective, Mass effect 2 cost 40 million dollars to make, and probably sold more. Skyrim's budget + marketing was 85 million dollars and they sold shit loads. Visceral's budget for Dead Space 2 was top tier, and so EA expects a top return. Welcome to AAA gaming I guess (this is why more AA games should be made).
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 17, 2018 21:42:02 GMT
Most people regarded it as a failure, especially considering it cost 60 million dollars to make (not including marketing, and remembering that EA only gets a percentage of all games sold, a little over 50% hard copy and 70% of all Steam sales). Visceral took EA's money and failed to give EA a good return. It's true that it cost $60 million to make, and it's true that it sold four million copies. That doesn't mean it was unprofitable, as Zach Wilson — a level designer on Battlefield Hardline — himself stressed. Why was the budget so high? Maybe it was the result of EA trying to force a niché game into the mold of a popular blockbuster to rival Call of Duty.
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 17, 2018 22:21:18 GMT
It's sad that you regard selling four million copies as a failure. Most people regarded it as a failure, especially considering it cost 60 million dollars to make (not including marketing, and remembering that EA only gets a percentage of all games sold, a little over 50% hard copy and 70% of all Steam sales). Visceral took EA's money and failed to give EA a good return. For perspective, Mass effect 2 cost 40 million dollars to make, and probably sold more. Skyrim's budget + marketing was 85 million dollars and they sold shit loads. Visceral's budget for Dead Space 2 was top tier, and so EA expects a top return. Welcome to AAA gaming I guess (this is why more AA games should be made). That's why actually we are seeing the big publishers have more AA games like EA's brought out Fe and A Way Out is coming out, of course they don't own the companies so aren't exposed directly (they also don't make any profit on them, it all goes to the developer), but it allows them to have a more varied portfolio. I think Rockstar also announced recently about commisionning a few Indies to make a few AA games for them (I think Obsidian was going to make an RPG for them). But the big AAA games take a lot of resources to make know, I remember one analyst stating it takes about $100 million to produce a new IP AAA game nowadays. Which why you are having AAA publishers be very careful about bringing out new IPs.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 17, 2018 23:39:26 GMT
His quest. If you play it, you'll see it's about how he's gay and Daddy doesn't approve. Okay. Other than that scene, where else does his character revolve around his sexuality? And the romance scenes don’t count. He doesn't have any character other than that. That's the point. He has all the depth of a puddle and practically all of it is about being gay and Daddy not approving.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 17, 2018 23:40:34 GMT
Most people regarded it as a failure, especially considering it cost 60 million dollars to make (not including marketing, and remembering that EA only gets a percentage of all games sold, a little over 50% hard copy and 70% of all Steam sales). Visceral took EA's money and failed to give EA a good return. For perspective, Mass effect 2 cost 40 million dollars to make, and probably sold more. Skyrim's budget + marketing was 85 million dollars and they sold shit loads. Visceral's budget for Dead Space 2 was top tier, and so EA expects a top return. Welcome to AAA gaming I guess (this is why more AA games should be made). That's why actually we are seeing the big publishers have more AA games like EA's brought out Fe and A Way Out is coming out, of course they don't own the companies so aren't exposed directly (they also don't make any profit on them, it all goes to the developer), but it allows them to have a more varied portfolio. I think Rockstar also announced recently about commisionning a few Indies to make a few AA games for them (I think Obsidian was going to make an RPG for them). But the big AAA games take a lot of resources to make know, I remember one analyst stating it takes about $100 million to produce a new IP AAA game nowadays. Which why you are having AAA publishers be very careful about bringing out new IPs. Despite how much I dislike EA's practices, I really hope "A Way Out" is good. It looks good, but I've only ever seen a few scenes of it. Most of the Let's Players I've seen doing demos all show us the same sections.
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Post by phoray on Mar 17, 2018 23:48:25 GMT
Okay. Other than that scene, where else does his character revolve around his sexuality? And the romance scenes don’t count. He doesn't have any character other than that. That's the point. He has all the depth of a puddle and practically all of it is about being gay and Daddy not approving. Other things that come to mind are his alcoholism and Slave Apologist mind set and interest in fashion (which is not a homosexual trait by any means in modern times.) His limited list of real friends that aren't using him for his future in the Magisterium (if they aren't already planning his murder). How much he loves Tevinter and hates blood magic. I think you dislike that personal quest, but that doesn't mean there is nothing else to him.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 17, 2018 23:52:32 GMT
He doesn't have any character other than that. That's the point. He has all the depth of a puddle and practically all of it is about being gay and Daddy not approving. Other things that come to mind are his alcoholism and Slave Apologist mind set and interest in fashion (which is not a homosexual trait by any means in modern times.) His limited list of real friends that aren't using him for his future in the Magisterium (if they aren't already planning his murder). How much he loves Tevinter and hates blood magic. I think you dislike that personal quest, but that doesn't mean there is nothing else to him. You sure you played the right game? The only time Dorian tells you about blood magic is that Magisters don't consider it evil if you're using your own blood or that of a willing sacrifice, and that most people use it to get ahead. Which we already knew. Dorian also does not apologize about slaves, he mentions that they are just part of the background in Tevinter (and that his family treated them well). Those aren't character, they're just him reporting details. Being an alcoholic is not a character trait either: A number of characters like Varric, IB, and Sera are also alcoholics, and it means nothing to their characters. It doesn't with Dorian either.
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 17, 2018 23:52:56 GMT
He doesn't have any character other than that. That's the point. He has all the depth of a puddle and practically all of it is about being gay and Daddy not approving. Other things that come to mind are his alcoholism and Slave Apologist mind set and interest in fashion (which is not a homosexual trait by any means in modern times.) His limited list of real friends that aren't using him for his future in the Magisterium (if they aren't already planning his murder). How much he loves Tevinter and hates blood magic. I think you dislike that personal quest, but that doesn't mean there is nothing else to him. I'm not entirely sure how this thread turned into a discussion about Dorian, but this. He has opinions, thoughts, and feelings, most unsuprisingly that have nothing to do with his sexuality. I guess the type of character he is , isn't for everyone but that has nothing to so with the fact he is gay. We don't go round saying character's whole personality is nothing but straightness, do we?
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 17, 2018 23:59:41 GMT
Other things that come to mind are his alcoholism and Slave Apologist mind set and interest in fashion (which is not a homosexual trait by any means in modern times.) His limited list of real friends that aren't using him for his future in the Magisterium (if they aren't already planning his murder). How much he loves Tevinter and hates blood magic. I think you dislike that personal quest, but that doesn't mean there is nothing else to him. You sure you played the right game? The only time Dorian tells you about blood magic is that Magisters don't consider it evil if you're using your own blood or that of a willing sacrifice, and that most people use it to get ahead. Which we already knew. Dorian also does not apologize about slaves, he mentions that they are just part of the background in Tevinter (and that his family treated them well). Those aren't character, they're just him reporting details. Being an alcoholic is not a character trait either: A number of characters like Varric, IB, and Sera are also alcoholics, and it means nothing to their characters. It doesn't with Dorian either. He's vain, proud, patriotic, intellectual, self-conscious , doesn't trust easy, has few friends as has been burned by close friends, doesn't like blood magic (which he mentions quite a few times), feels guilty about his countries crimes/past. There's a few character traits which have nothing to do with his sexuality. You might not like him - not everyone will - but he has a number of character traits and they have nothing to do with being gay.
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Andraste_Reborn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 18, 2018 0:00:28 GMT
I'm not entirely sure how this thread turned into a discussion about Dorian, but this. He has opinions, thoughts, and feelings, most unsuprisingly that have nothing to do with his sexuality. I guess the type of character he is , isn't for everyone but that has nothing to so with the fact he is gay. We don't go round saying character's whole personality is nothing but straightness, do we? Yes, by this logic Aveline's character revolves around her heterosexuality because she has a (hilarious) quest that's all about getting her a date. Dorian has many personality traits that are not about his sexuality. Another one not already mentioned above: his fascination with necromancy and the Nevarran practice of preserving corpses. Also his scholarship and all the interesting conversations about magical theory he has with Solas.
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Post by phoray on Mar 18, 2018 0:01:17 GMT
The only time Dorian tells you about blood magic is that Magisters don't consider it evil if you're using your own blood or that of a willing sacrifice, and that most people use it to get ahead. The very quest you're bringing up about his gayness, the biggest betrayal is not that Dorian wasn't accepted as Gay by Daddy. It's that Daddy risked his own son's life and mind using Blood Magic to try to change him. That his own father thought the risk of turning him into a Living Vegetable was worth him being heterosexual. His Father is who taught him that Blood Magic is the tool of fools and weaklings. I suppose hate is a strong word, let's go with nurtured disgust. Dorian also does not apologize about slaves, he mentions that they are just part of the background in Tevinter (and that his family treated them well). I think you don't understand the word "Apologist" Here you go. He straight up tells any Inky that Tevinter slavery is better than the South's Alienages. "at least there, someone can sell themselves into a better position." Being an alcoholic is not a character trait either: Ya, it is. He buried himself in prostitutes and booze to cover up his depression about not being accepted by daddy. Then after the big argument with daddy, he says he's going to go get himself drunk again. He has a drinking problem that is, for the most part, overlooked. But it's there. He's never drinking with anyone, he always drinks alone.
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Post by phoray on Mar 18, 2018 0:06:21 GMT
I'm not entirely sure how this thread turned into a discussion about Dorian, Eh, it's a Doomsday Thread anyway. Only going to go so far as it is, may as well go off topic.
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 18, 2018 0:09:17 GMT
I'm not entirely sure how this thread turned into a discussion about Dorian, Eh, it's a Doomsday Thread anyway. Only going to go so far as it is, may as well go off topic. I shoulda know at some point this thread would devolve into railing against those pesky SJWs, like how dare they want games not to be just be focused solely on the white straight male gamer, how selfish! /s
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 18, 2018 0:11:32 GMT
I'm not entirely sure how this thread turned into a discussion about Dorian, but this. He has opinions, thoughts, and feelings, most unsuprisingly that have nothing to do with his sexuality. I guess the type of character he is , isn't for everyone but that has nothing to so with the fact he is gay. We don't go round saying character's whole personality is nothing but straightness, do we? Yes, by this logic Aveline's character revolves around her heterosexuality because she has a (hilarious) quest that's all about getting her a date. Don't forget mourning her dead straight husband half the game. How did we not see it before!!! 0_0
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Andraste_Reborn
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Mar 18, 2018 0:12:28 GMT
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me which BioWare character revolves entirely around their gender.
(Is it Minsc? It's Minsc, isn't it?)
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Post by phoray on Mar 18, 2018 0:14:42 GMT
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me which BioWare character revolves entirely around their gender. (Is it Minsc? It's Minsc, isn't it?) mmmmm. Krem? Maybe Krem
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 18, 2018 0:18:09 GMT
I'm still waiting for someone to tell me which BioWare character revolves entirely around their gender. (Is it Minsc? It's Minsc, isn't it?) mmmmm. Krem? Maybe Krem Don't be silly, it's clearly all the leaders of the Iniative in Andromeda, clearly only got the job cus of some equal representation policy (according to the internet anyway.....)
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Mar 18, 2018 0:20:03 GMT
mmmmm. Krem? Maybe Krem ...Actually...Yeah.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 18, 2018 0:26:42 GMT
mmmmm. Krem? Maybe Krem ...Actually...Yeah. Not even Krem, since most of his character is about him being a mercenary and The Iron Bull's number 2 guy. Other than the one conversation which can be completely skipped his gender never comes up.
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Post by rras1994 on Mar 18, 2018 0:29:31 GMT
Not even Krem, since most of his character is about him being a mercenary and The Iron Bull's number 2 guy. Other than the one conversation which can be completely skipped his gender never comes up. Yep, Krem's main role is to be best bro to Iron Bull. Which he does well
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Post by TheodoricFriede on Mar 18, 2018 0:30:41 GMT
Not even Krem, since most of his character is about him being a mercenary and The Iron Bull's number 2 guy. Other than the one conversation which can be completely skipped his gender never comes up. As someone who actively tried to skip that conversation(I dont feel like Bioware handled it well at all)... you really cant.
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