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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 12:15:37 GMT
If they're kicking the ball down the road, they may as well just return to the MW. Otherwise, let's wrap of the current threads left unfinished. I agree on the vaults thing but I actually wouldn't be surprised if change didn't happen pretty quickly. The atmosphere, temperature and radiation levels all changed drastically immediately after using the vault. But there's really nothing so immediate that needs to be addressed right away. The AI found their planet, and honestly, with only 250K ppl they don't even need the other colonies. Everyone could live on Meridian for the time being, especially since they have their own terraforming equipment like they used on Habitat 7. They can terraform planets to their liking and move to them in a few generations. Remnant Vaults - Time would have allowed them to study the vaults and the remnant and learn more about them. Possibly leading to some reverse engineering. Jardaan - Nothing was started with them really, so telling their story now or down the road won't make a difference. Study of the vaults, the scourge and the equipment could lead to things over the years as well. Kett - The Kett use a form of Arks, so they may not be able to immediately send large-scale reinforcements to Helius right away. Or the rest of the galaxy could have come together and formed an alliance that put a halt to the Ketts march across the galaxy. An alliance that the AI has entered or enters. Benefactor - Perhaps the benefactor is a group and not one person, and they sent operatives to Andromeda, and they've been biding their time putting people in places to be able to have some control from the shadows in Andromeda as well. This would be much better than just finding out who it is, and tieing it up. Things like curing Ryder's mom, catching up with Reyes is you chose Sloan, or some of the other smaller side stuff isn't worth keeping Andromeda in infancy. Main storywise, there was nothing imminent that can't be told just as well after a long time skip than a small one because they wrote so many things as if they intended to explain them later. However, they don't have to "kick the ball down the road a long ways" to be able to open up more of the galaxy or to introduce new races to the series or to have large settled cities. The huge population base and the cities would just be alien, not AI in nature. People have been crying to play as an alien and for Bioware to have the IP step away from its humancentric POV. If the Milky Way was 99% unexplored after three games and with a whole relay network in place, then the Heleus Cluster is at least 99% unexplored. The cluster is not just starting out... only the AI is just starting out; but we could wind up playing as an Angara or a former member of the AI who has been kettified (vaguely remembering the AI but now part of a much larger kett society). Kicking the ball down the road is not the only way to get away from the "just starting out" notion.
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Post by Ahriman on May 4, 2018 12:20:38 GMT
playing as an Angara or a former member of the AI who has been kettified (vaguely remembering the AI but now part of a much larger kett society) You don't seriously expect them to do something like this? Such PC just won't sell.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 14:26:35 GMT
playing as an Angara or a former member of the AI who has been kettified (vaguely remembering the AI but now part of a much larger kett society) You don't seriously expect them to do something like this? Such PC just won't sell. Why? Your own personal distaste of anything ME:A doesn't count. The PC's character hasn't been written yet, so you have no idea how intriguing that character might be. All you have is a physical template, what the character could look like. People have been asking to play as an alien. Well, the Angara are aliens. People have been asking to play as a villain. Well, the kett are villains. My point still stands... you don't have to push a sequel way into the future and into yet another cluster to generate a population base in Andromeda or to have cities or other new exploration. I can be done within Heleus and within a relatively short time from the ending of ME:A. It's possible... as always though, anything we discuss here is speculation... Bioware will ultimately do whatever THEY want to do. We're also talking about a game unlikely to be released for another 5 years and, most likely, will target a whole different generation of gamers. The alleged "taint" will be largely dissipated by then... becasue ME:A itself wasn't THAT bad... it was an average game. A few people running around on the internet saying it was a pile of trash and sold abysmally and other such exaggerated lies isn't going to change the fact that it was an average game (as reviewed by the pros) and sold OK as stated by EA (not up to expectations, but not a financial disaster for EA either). I'm betting by then, almost every game being made will be played with some form of multiplayer and online in some fashion. As a result, any Mass Effect sequel is probably going to look way different from any of the games we've seen so far.
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Post by Ahriman on May 4, 2018 14:34:06 GMT
You don't seriously expect them to do something like this? Such PC just won't sell. Why? Your own personal distaste of anything ME:A doesn't count. The PC's character hasn't been written yet, so you have no idea how intriguing that character might be. All you have is a physical template, what the character could look like. People have been asking to play as an alien. Well, the Angara are aliens. People have been asking to play as a villain. Well, the kett are villains. My point still stands... you don't have to push a sequel way into the future and into yet another cluster to generate a population base in Andromeda or to have cities or other new exploration. I can be done within Heleus and within a relatively short time from the ending of ME:A. It's possible... as always though, anything we discuss here is speculation... Bioware will ultimately do whatever THEY want to do. We're also talking about a game unlikely to be released for another 5 years and, most likely, will target a whole different generation of gamers. The alleged "taint" will be largely dissipated by then... becasue ME:A itself wasn't THAT bad... it was an average game. A few people running around on the internet saying it was a pile of trash and sold abysmally and other such exaggerated lies isn't going to change the fact that it was an average game (as reviewed by the pros) and sold OK as stated by EA (not up to expectations, but not a financial disaster for EA either). I'm betting by then, almost every game being made will be played with some form of multiplayer and online in some fashion. As a result, any Mass Effect sequel is probably going to look way different from any of the games we've seen so far. My "personal distaste"? Whatever. It's not even about ME, it's basic gaming marketing. Exclusively non-human playable characters are niche stuff. It was like this for decades and I don't know why would it suddenly change for next generation of gamers.
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Post by alanc9 on May 4, 2018 14:40:25 GMT
In the RPG genre, anyway. I can think of games in other genres with no humans.
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Post by Ahriman on May 4, 2018 14:50:26 GMT
In the RPG genre, anyway. I can think of games in other genres with no humans. Most recent example which comes to mind is Of Orcs and Men. Hardly successful or mainstream game.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 4, 2018 16:12:15 GMT
playing as an Angara or a former member of the AI who has been kettified (vaguely remembering the AI but now part of a much larger kett society) You don't seriously expect them to do something like this? Such PC just won't sell. I can't see why not we already have options to play as elves and dwarves even Qunari in Dragon Age what's to say they can't perhaps introduce something like that to ME. He's not saying it wil happen he's saying these could perhaps be added as options. Of course it depends on the story they want to tell though.
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Post by Ahriman on May 4, 2018 16:18:13 GMT
You don't seriously expect them to do something like this? Such PC just won't sell. I can't see why not we already have options to play as elves and dwarves even Qunari in Dragon Age what's to say they can't perhaps introduce something like that to ME. He's not saying it wil happen he's saying these could perhaps be added as options. Of course it depends on the story they want to tell though. These are options in addition to human PC.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 4, 2018 16:27:11 GMT
I can't see why not we already have options to play as elves and dwarves even Qunari in Dragon Age what's to say they can't perhaps introduce something like that to ME. He's not saying it wil happen he's saying these could perhaps be added as options. Of course it depends on the story they want to tell though. These are options in addition to human PC. I know I think that's what he's saying though in that we can have these options also. Not just the plain basic be a human one.
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Post by Phantom on May 4, 2018 16:37:29 GMT
NPCs People might like: Imagine recruiting 3 vorchas with the humor of the 3 stooges while being highly capable badasses when it is time to be serious. I assume these are stowaways or part of the cleanup crew who forgot to leave. I'm having a hard time imagining vorcha intentionally being brought along. They're something like galactic vermin. That said, it would be amusing. my 3 stooges Vorchas idea can work with either Andromeda or Milk Way or any possible PC. Done properly, they are the type of vorcha that many fans will find funny while being highly capable.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 16:38:04 GMT
Why? Your own personal distaste of anything ME:A doesn't count. The PC's character hasn't been written yet, so you have no idea how intriguing that character might be. All you have is a physical template, what the character could look like. People have been asking to play as an alien. Well, the Angara are aliens. People have been asking to play as a villain. Well, the kett are villains. My point still stands... you don't have to push a sequel way into the future and into yet another cluster to generate a population base in Andromeda or to have cities or other new exploration. I can be done within Heleus and within a relatively short time from the ending of ME:A. It's possible... as always though, anything we discuss here is speculation... Bioware will ultimately do whatever THEY want to do. We're also talking about a game unlikely to be released for another 5 years and, most likely, will target a whole different generation of gamers. The alleged "taint" will be largely dissipated by then... becasue ME:A itself wasn't THAT bad... it was an average game. A few people running around on the internet saying it was a pile of trash and sold abysmally and other such exaggerated lies isn't going to change the fact that it was an average game (as reviewed by the pros) and sold OK as stated by EA (not up to expectations, but not a financial disaster for EA either). I'm betting by then, almost every game being made will be played with some form of multiplayer and online in some fashion. As a result, any Mass Effect sequel is probably going to look way different from any of the games we've seen so far. My "personal distaste"? Whatever. It's not even about ME, it's basic gaming marketing. Exclusively non-human playable characters are niche stuff. It was like this for decades and I don't know why would it suddenly change for next generation of gamers.
People like DA and will play non-humans in that game. People enjoy playing orcs and argonians in Oblivion. I don't think having non-human PCs available to the player has hurt the sales of those games at all. Also, I saw numerous requests for an alien PC and a less humancentric POV on the old BSN and here before ME:A released. Even if you play as a human, it could be one immersed in a very highly populated Angaran city and culture (perhaps one who was orphaned and adopted by Angaran parents). In addition, a human transformed (or partially transformed) into a Kett (yet still vaguely remembering what it was like to human) isn't so far different from any number of the many "superhero" protagonists we get in other games. Even Geralt is not really a human... humans don't live for centuries or have cat-like eyes... and there is no option not to play as him. My main point still stands... nothing says that a ME:A sequel has to be about creating new settlements on other planets... even if that sequel is set immediately following the first game.
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Post by alanc9 on May 4, 2018 17:26:58 GMT
We're talking about a situation where a non-human PC is just another option, right?
I'm not sure the resources would be there to implement this well.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 4, 2018 18:22:50 GMT
My "personal distaste"? Whatever. It's not even about ME, it's basic gaming marketing. Exclusively non-human playable characters are niche stuff. It was like this for decades and I don't know why would it suddenly change for next generation of gamers.
People like DA and will play non-humans in that game. People enjoy playing orcs and argonians in Oblivion. I don't think having non-human PCs available to the player has hurt the sales of those games at all. Also, I saw numerous requests for an alien PC and a less humancentric POV on the old BSN and here before ME:A released. Even if you play as a human, it could be one immersed in a very highly populated Angaran city and culture (perhaps one who was orphaned and adopted by Angaran parents). In addition, a human transformed (or partially transformed) into a Kett (yet still vaguely remembering what it was like to human) isn't so far different from any number of the many "superhero" protagonists we get in other games. Even Geralt is not really a human... humans don't live for centuries or have cat-like eyes... and there is no option not to play as him. My main point still stands... nothing says that a ME:A sequel has to be about creating new settlements on other planets... even if that sequel is set immediately following the first game. Indeed I quite often play as an elf on DA in fact my last Inquisitor was an elven rogue archer if I remember correctly. My current one is a human mage but I do use the alternatives from time to time as I'm planning a Qunari warrior for one of my next runs
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 4, 2018 18:28:46 GMT
We're talking about a situation where a non-human PC is just another option, right? I'm not sure the resources would be there to implement this well. <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.039999999999992" style="position: absolute; width: 23.960000000000036px; height: 4.039999999999992px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none;left: 15px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_47542077" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.039999999999992" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.04px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: -5px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_94269732" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.039999999999992" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.04px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 15px; top: 141px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_72966965" scrolling="no"></iframe> <iframe width="23.960000000000036" height="4.039999999999992" style="position: absolute; width: 23.96px; height: 4.04px; z-index: -9999; border-style: none; left: 1138px; top: 141px;" id="MoatPxIOPT0_82901537" scrolling="no"></iframe> I don't know about that as DA seems to do it OK so I see no reason why ME can't either. Although I do prefer to play as human I wouldn't say no to the other options if they were presented to me so long as they're done well. They'd just need to make the story just less human centric is all. Much like they did with DAO and DAI. I do mostly play as human but I enjoy making use of the other options as well from time to time.
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Post by kotoreffect3 on May 4, 2018 18:38:03 GMT
I hope it does but realistically I just dont know. Alot of it will depend on Anthem. After MEA I have been less focused on video games in general because I dont like the direction of the industry in general and it's getting away from making story driven singleplayer games. For me that has been a blessing in disguise since I have been more focused on getting in better shape and being more active in general.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 4, 2018 18:49:29 GMT
I assume these are stowaways or part of the cleanup crew who forgot to leave. I'm having a hard time imagining vorcha intentionally being brought along. They're something like galactic vermin. That said, it would be amusing. my 3 stooges Vorchas idea can work with either Andromeda or Milk Way or any possible PC. Done properly, they are the type of vorcha that many fans will find funny while being highly capable. They could be. On the planet where Shepard rescued Ann Bryson the codex mentions that there had once been a colony founded by asari and socialized vorcha. Of course, once the asari departed, and they bred like rats, that socialization went away. If they were kept socialized, and we know they're kind of stupid either way, this could by a fun thing to see.
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Post by dmc1001 on May 4, 2018 18:52:25 GMT
But there's really nothing so immediate that needs to be addressed right away. The AI found their planet, and honestly, with only 250K ppl they don't even need the other colonies. Everyone could live on Meridian for the time being, especially since they have their own terraforming equipment like they used on Habitat 7. They can terraform planets to their liking and move to them in a few generations. Most but maybe not everyone. It would be a good idea of a world was found for the turians. It was frankly hard to credit that a world for dextro and levo planets to be in the same system. This would work better if they expanded beyond the Heleus Cluster to find one of those worlds. A good way to move a bit forward, maybe to a place not inundated by the Scourge.
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Post by Deleted on May 4, 2018 19:44:35 GMT
My "personal distaste"? Whatever. It's not even about ME, it's basic gaming marketing. Exclusively non-human playable characters are niche stuff. It was like this for decades and I don't know why would it suddenly change for next generation of gamers.
People like DA and will play non-humans in that game. People enjoy playing orcs and argonians in Oblivion. I don't think having non-human PCs available to the player has hurt the sales of those games at all. Also, I saw numerous requests for an alien PC and a less humancentric POV on the old BSN and here before ME:A released. I agree with all of that. Well, mostly. I don't think that playing as a human automatically translates to playing a humancentric POV. A human PC can genuinely see all species as having important roles to play, value their various cultures and contributions, even romance other species. I think Javik kind of made a point about that - he said that one of the reasons the protheans failed to defeat the reapers is because they were homogenized, having inculcated all of the species into their culture. The current cycle had a better chance because the various alien cultures were still independent, capable of bringing different approaches to the problem. Relating to your Oblivion reference, note that those games aren't voiced or cinematic - so I don't know that it makes for a valid comparison. As far as supporting species choice in ME, they'd need to either break lore like crazy or have some unique options depending on which race you've selected. DA doesn't allow you to play a mage dwarf; ME should not allow an angaran to have biotics, but should give them some special bioelectric abilities. Since MEA quit the combat classes, opening up all talents to the player, that could get complicated - and then you'd have people complaining about wanting to play a biotic angaran. Or wanting to use the special bioelectric capabilities on some other species. Note that all of the DA races have similar facial features and can use the same facial animations. That isn't true in ME. We already have a situation where a lot of the ME species are very human-like, and the ones that aren't have had much lesser roles in the overall storylines (think hanar, elcor, volus, vorcha, rachni) - probably mostly because animating them is a lot more work. One potential solution for that, if the team really wanted to support wide racial options would be to do all conversations in first person camera - but I can already hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth were they to do that. There are also voice filters and different cultural expressions that would need to be taken into consideration. While DA races have some different expressions, they all speak a common tongue. In ME, we're using translators. DAI doubled their voice tracks for the PC, and I think had some unique race-specific options in some places. There would also be a considerable watering down of CC options were they to support multiple species - and after all the complaints they got with MEA, it's a little difficult for me to imagine them wanting to open themselves to more of that. For me, personally, race options add very little value. Though I certainly appreciate the fact that it could mean a lot to some people to have those options, it's hard for me to believe that it could be implemented very well without having some fairly consequential cutbacks in other areas. IOW, they'd have to cut some substantial content that everyone could enjoy in order to provide options that - what - maybe 10% (?) of the entire player base would ever use? It doesn't sound like a very good investment to me.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 4, 2018 20:53:16 GMT
People like DA and will play non-humans in that game. People enjoy playing orcs and argonians in Oblivion. I don't think having non-human PCs available to the player has hurt the sales of those games at all. Also, I saw numerous requests for an alien PC and a less humancentric POV on the old BSN and here before ME:A released. I agree with all of that. Well, mostly. I don't think that playing as a human automatically translates to playing a humancentric POV. A human PC can genuinely see all species as having important roles to play, value their various cultures and contributions, even romance other species. I think Javik kind of made a point about that - he said that one of the reasons the protheans failed to defeat the reapers is because they were homogenized, having inculcated all of the species into their culture. The current cycle had a better chance because the various alien cultures were still independent, capable of bringing different approaches to the problem. Relating to your Oblivion reference, note that those games aren't voiced or cinematic - so I don't know that it makes for a valid comparison. As far as supporting species choice in ME, they'd need to either break lore like crazy or have some unique options depending on which race you've selected. DA doesn't allow you to play a mage dwarf; ME should not allow an angaran to have biotics, but should give them some special bioelectric abilities. Since MEA quit the combat classes, opening up all talents to the player, that could get complicated - and then you'd have people complaining about wanting to play a biotic angaran. Or wanting to use the special bioelectric capabilities on some other species. Note that all of the DA races have similar facial features and can use the same facial animations. That isn't true in ME. We already have a situation where a lot of the ME species are very human-like, and the ones that aren't have had much lesser roles in the overall storylines (think hanar, elcor, volus, vorcha, rachni) - probably mostly because animating them is a lot more work. One potential solution for that, if the team really wanted to support wide racial options would be to do all conversations in first person camera - but I can already hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth were they to do that. There are also voice filters and different cultural expressions that would need to be taken into consideration. While DA races have some different expressions, they all speak a common tongue. In ME, we're using translators. DAI doubled their voice tracks for the PC, and I think had some unique race-specific options in some places. There would also be a considerable watering down of CC options were they to support multiple species - and after all the complaints they got with MEA, it's a little difficult for me to imagine them wanting to open themselves to more of that. For me, personally, race options add very little value. Though I certainly appreciate the fact that it could mean a lot to some people to have those options, it's hard for me to believe that it could be implemented very well without having some fairly consequential cutbacks in other areas. IOW, they'd have to cut some substantial content that everyone could enjoy in order to provide options that - what - maybe 10% (?) of the entire player base would ever use? It doesn't sound like a very good investment to me. Yeah I agree I think it would be difficult to do so it's unlikely to happen but there's always a chance I suppose. I personally prefer the human at the centre of it all approach that Bioware generally uses for these games but I'm not against change if it can be done well. Either way I agree I don't think it's an easy problem.
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Post by Phantom on May 4, 2018 20:56:55 GMT
my 3 stooges Vorchas idea can work with either Andromeda or Milk Way or any possible PC. Done properly, they are the type of vorcha that many fans will find funny while being highly capable. They could be. On the planet where Shepard rescued Ann Bryson the codex mentions that there had once been a colony founded by asari and socialized vorcha. Of course, once the asari departed, and they bred like rats, that socialization went away. If they were kept socialized, and we know they're kind of stupid either way, this could by a fun thing to see. true. Also a proper Vorcha is a numb nut at their best. In writing the 3 Stooges(vorcha team), much of their humor should be based on them being numb nuts. A good tvtropes best describes them(at least what is in my head) is Beware of the Silly Ones. tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BewareTheSillyOnes
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sjsharp2010
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Go Team!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by sjsharp2010 on May 4, 2018 21:02:05 GMT
I hope it does but realistically I just dont know. Alot of it will depend on Anthem. After MEA I have been less focused on video games in general because I dont like the direction of the industry in general and it's getting away from making story driven singleplayer games. For me that has been a blessing in disguise since I have been more focused on getting in better shape and being more active in general. Yeah there's not much coming out in the near future that has caught my eye maybe the new Tomb Raider but atm that's just about it. As for me getting active being disabled that's hard for me to do so I tend to rely moer on games especially as TV I find pretty crap as well mostly these days. Thankfully I have built up a bit of a backlog of games to play so hopefully less games in the near future gives me time to focus on them.
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Post by Cassandra on May 4, 2018 21:04:12 GMT
I suspect the first revival we'll ever hear regarding Mass Effect is a remaster, if only to garner interest. EA will want to test whether people still have an interest in the franchise, which a remaster accomplishes. That won't happen for another few years though. Right now Anthem is their focus. And if it fails... I don't see BioWare surviving much longer.
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Sanunes
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Just a flip of the coin.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on May 5, 2018 1:09:39 GMT
Just wanted to put my 2 cents in about playable races.
I personally hated the way BioWare did it in Dragon Age: Inquisition. I get for some people that approach worked, but it hurt my enjoyment of not just the additional races, but humans as well. The problem is except for a small handful of times all the choices were identical and my Dwarf/Elf/Quanari were treated exactly the same as a human even though according to the way the lore is presented there is a lot of open racism between the races in the game. The other problem is frankly I always felt like a Human in a rubber suit, unless I do massive head canon work I really don't see a different in the game aside from the look of the character.
The big elephant in the room is the technical problems they need to address. In Inquisition the problem was that during any type of cinematic activity they stood still the majority of the time because all of those animations would have needed to have an animation pass and tweaks eight times because the body types vary. If they are sculpting a cinematic moment where the player is interacting with another player or object do you think in this day and age after Andromeda people would be willing to see the player put their hand through the head of an NPC while they are gesturing in that direction?
I get that people that really want to play another race, but I just don't really see it happening unless its an Asari that is treated exactly the same as a Human in the game itself or they introduce a new race that is fairly close to Humans like the Asari are and again there is next to no different in the game itself.
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dmc1001
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Biotic Booty
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by dmc1001 on May 5, 2018 3:47:19 GMT
I suspect the first revival we'll ever hear regarding Mass Effect is a remaster, if only to garner interest. EA will want to test whether people still have an interest in the franchise, which a remaster accomplishes. That won't happen for another few years though. Right now Anthem is their focus. And if it fails... I don't see BioWare surviving much longer. Though, to be fair, if Anthem fails it's probably because a studio of people who makes RPG's was tasked with creating a MP game. It's baffling that EA doesn't know this. That said, not interested in a remaster much. I suspect there'd be too many tweaks I wouldn't care for.
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Post by themikefest on May 5, 2018 4:34:52 GMT
I like to see the trilogy remastered. If it does happen, I see it being released for the next generation of consoles
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