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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 28, 2022 7:17:15 GMT
Well, sure. That too.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Apr 28, 2022 15:27:29 GMT
Gosh, it's fascinating watching people who have not read Moon Knight comics react to this show!
(And that's all I'm saying.)
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Apr 28, 2022 20:27:43 GMT
Tease Are you...happy, not happy or somewhere in-between with the shows portrayal?
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Apr 29, 2022 9:24:02 GMT
Are you...happy, not happy or somewhere in-between with the shows portrayal? Extremely happy! It's simultaneously nothing like any existing Moon Knight comics and a really good adaptation, which is difficult to pull off. It's probably going to end up my favourite Marvel TV show so far if it sticks the landing next week. My only complaint is that there's nowhere near enough of it - the Netflix shows used to end up feeling bloated with their thirteen-episode seasons, but six just isn't enough. (Except for Hawkeye, which had exactly the right amount of plot to fill six episodes.)
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Post by Iakus on May 1, 2022 15:53:46 GMT
Wait, is that Captain Carter?
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on May 1, 2022 17:41:45 GMT
So I started watching the MCU movies in Chronological order on Mouse Minus, but where is the Hulk (with Ed Norton, Tim Roth, William Hurt and Liv Tyler)? That seems to be removed from the canon timeline. I remember something about Mark Ruffalo being cast for the rest of the movies, because Norton was being a colossal cactus about $$$, so the studio said "you're out, Ruffalo is in. See ya." And so that is the only reason why I can think that his Hulk movie may have been de-canonized, because it is not on Mouse Minus. It is the only Marvel CU movie that is still on Netflix.
Any other thoughts on this? Is it crucial to the timeline, do you think?
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Post by DragonKingReborn on May 2, 2022 3:21:57 GMT
So I started watching the MCU movies in Chronological order on Mouse Minus, but where is the Hulk (with Ed Norton, Tim Roth, William Hurt and Liv Tyler)? That seems to be removed from the canon timeline. I remember something about Mark Ruffalo being cast for the rest of the movies, because Norton was being a colossal cactus about $$$, so the studio said "you're out, Ruffalo is in. See ya." And so that is the only reason why I can think that his Hulk movie may have been de-canonized, because it is not on Mouse Minus. It is the only Marvel CU movie that is still on Netflix. Any other thoughts on this? Is it crucial to the timeline, do you think? Norton refused to promote the movie because he wasn't given full creative control is the 'word on the street' from movie pundits. As for why that movie isn't on Disney +, the answer is distribution rights. Paramount (at least, I think it's Paramount) owns the rights to distribute Hulk movies, not Disney/Marvel. It's one of the reasons we haven't seen a Hulk solo film since the Norton one. The events of that movie are still MCU canon, as far as I'm aware.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on May 2, 2022 10:22:25 GMT
The events of that movie are still MCU canon, as far as I'm aware. They are - we see some of them again in What If ...? (Which is very strange since it is, of course, Mark Ruffalo Hulk instead of Edward Norton Hulk.) We've also seen Abomination show up in Shang-Chi and apparently he's going to have a more extensive appearance in She-Hulk later this year.
Between the Paramount distribution stuff and the actor change, the film is the redheaded step-child of the MCU, but it still happened.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on May 2, 2022 10:34:25 GMT
The events of that movie are still MCU canon, as far as I'm aware. They are - we see some of them again in What If ...? (Which is very strange since it is, of course, Mark Ruffalo Hulk instead of Edward Norton Hulk.) We've also seen Abomination show up in Shang-Chi and apparently he's going to have a more extensive appearance in She-Hulk later this year.
Between the Paramount distribution stuff and the actor change, the film is the redheaded step-child of the MCU, but it still happened.
And with the cameo in No Way Home, we know that the Neflix Marvel shows (or, at the very least, one of them) are canon as well. I think the only one that might have been quietly removed from the timeline is Agents of Shield. But that's just an assumption. I stopped watching after about 6 episodes. Apparently there was time travel? I don't know.
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Post by Iakus on May 2, 2022 15:40:25 GMT
They are - we see some of them again in What If ...? (Which is very strange since it is, of course, Mark Ruffalo Hulk instead of Edward Norton Hulk.) We've also seen Abomination show up in Shang-Chi and apparently he's going to have a more extensive appearance in She-Hulk later this year.
Between the Paramount distribution stuff and the actor change, the film is the redheaded step-child of the MCU, but it still happened.
And with the cameo in No Way Home, we know that the Neflix Marvel shows (or, at the very least, one of them) are canon as well. I think the only one that might have been quietly removed from the timeline is Agents of Shield. But that's just an assumption. I stopped watching after about 6 episodes. Apparently there was time travel? I don't know. Kingpin also appeared in Hawkeye. The later seasons of SHIELD (pretty much everything after Graviton) involved a lot of time travel and alternate timelines, and arguably introduced the multiverse even before What If...? and Loki. So I'm pretty sure Agents of SHIELD has been relegated to a multiverse ting.
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Post by Deleted on May 2, 2022 18:27:58 GMT
General Thunderbolt played by the late William Hurt started out in Hulk 2008. He goes on to play the role for a while. Civil War, Infinity War, Endgame, Black Widow.
I believe Liv Taylor's character never appears onscreen again but gets mentioned. (Snapped and brought back IIRC.)
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Post by Iakus on May 2, 2022 18:56:33 GMT
General Thunderbolt played by the late William Hurt started out in Hulk 2008. He goes on to play the role for a while. Civil War, Infinity War, Endgame, Black Widow. I believe Liv Taylor's character never appears onscreen again but gets mentioned. (Snapped and brought back IIRC.) Also, the scene in the Avengers when Banner talks about how at one point he tried to kill himself, "put a bullet in my mouth and the other guy spit it out" Pretty well describes the original opening to the Incredible Hulk:
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Post by DragonKingReborn on May 6, 2022 6:05:25 GMT
So.....Moon Knight finale... That was...a lot. I probably need to watch it again, but; Marc going back for Steven and accepting him, understanding that what he'd perceived as weaknesses and timidity were actually the strengths that allowed him to survive an abusive childhood was a nice touch.
I'm not clear on what happened to the remaining Egyptian gods...did they all die? Did just the avatars die? Are they still alive, just beaten in that moment?
Lady Hippo talking through dead soldiers was equally grim and delightful.
I hope there is at least some mention of the 'events in Cairo' in future MCU offerings. A bunch of people dying as purple light leaves their bodies is not the sort of thing that can be kept quiet.
And most importantly, the post credit scene; We have a name for the third alt. Jake Lockley seems like a real piece of work. Can't fault the sentiment, I suppose, but that was some cold shit in the back of that limo.
Always check the fine print of agreements with the gods. Marc and Steven wanted out. Jake didn't. So I guess that means Marc's body is still the avatar? Is Moon Knight the new Hulk in the MCU? Angry sand coloured rage monster? Because damn...the final fight scene with Harrod looked to be a lost cause and then Lockley goes beserk. If Marc with all his training couldn't free himself from Harrod, does that mean anger or hate plays into the strength of the suit? Ahmet dispassionately executed for pre-crime. Pretty abhorrent, but calm, almost forgiving in a way. She wanted to spare the world the suffering they'd cause. Konshu was all righteous anger and fury at actually committed evil. All in all - I loved this. Hope we see more going forward. Would be really interesting to see Strange interact with Marc/Steven. Speaking of which...
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Post by Noxluxe on May 6, 2022 23:11:32 GMT
Soooo... in the end Wanda "put things right" in Westview...
This might sound like a crazy question, and it really really should be, but is anyone else the slightest bit worried that the media giant that's buying up all the most influential studios, rewriting the history of classic entertainment and storytelling through warped sequels forced into the mainstream culture by, surrounded by and protected by, doublethink, political bullying, naked propaganda, zealotry and extremism, whose bread and butter is to show pictures to children... keeps hiring writers who fundamentally don't seem understand right from wrong if anyone involved has a vagina?
I don't know about you guys, but the themes in the Disney movies I grew up with were all about how you need to better yourself if you want things to go your way in life. You know, learn to recognize your weaknesses and work on improving them instead of making excuses, make an effort to fix and atone for your mistakes because it means something even if you can't turn back time and undo the things you get wrong, and be willing to make sacrifices for others even if it means you don't necessarily get what you want. And the older I get the truer and more valuable those lessons seem even just in terms of what seems to result in success and/or happiness and what doesn't.
A few weeks ago, No Way Home gave me a tiny sliver of hope that the big, disgusting machine that's principally raising our kids when we aren't there hasn't completely forgotten what real fucking values are. And then Disney comes out with their new Marvel movie.
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Post by Iakus on May 7, 2022 16:32:52 GMT
Soooo... in the end Wanda "put things right" in Westview... This might sound like a crazy question, and it really really should be, but is anyone else the slightest bit worried that the media giant that's buying up all the most influential studios, rewriting the history of classic entertainment and storytelling through warped sequels forced into the mainstream culture by, surrounded by and protected by, doublethink, political bullying, naked propaganda, zealotry and extremism, whose bread and butter is to show pictures to children... keeps hiring writers who fundamentally don't seem understand right from wrong if anyone involved has a vagina? I don't know about you guys, but the themes in the Disney movies I grew up with were all about how you need to better yourself if you want things to go your way in life. You know, learn to recognize your weaknesses and work on improving them instead of making excuses, make an effort to fix and atone for your mistakes because it means something even if you can't turn back time and undo the things you get wrong, and be willing to make sacrifices for others even if it means you don't necessarily get what you want. And the older I get the truer and more valuable those lessons seem even just in terms of what seems to result in success and/or happiness and what doesn't. A few weeks ago, No Way Home gave me a tiny sliver of hope that the big, disgusting machine that's principally raising our kids when we aren't there hasn't completely forgotten what real fucking values are. And then Disney comes out with their new Marvel movie. Technically No Way Home is a Sony movie, not Disney. So yeah, Disney seems to be largely abandoning the self-improvement route and is embracing entitlement.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 7, 2022 17:31:50 GMT
Umm…from everything I’m hearing about Wanda in Multiverse of Madness they are not doing any of that. She’s the villain of the movie.
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Post by Hier0phant on May 7, 2022 20:58:19 GMT
It's ridiculous how Strange could have ended the film in the first 30 minutes. Strange: <wearing Vision mask> "Wanda you can't take the easy way out! You and me we're gonna make the babies, the old fashion way. No vaseline."
Wanda: <gets moist> On the same note Rachel McAdams' ass looked scrumptious.
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Post by Iakus on May 8, 2022 3:09:52 GMT
Umm…from everything I’m hearing about Wanda in Multiverse of Madness they are not doing any of that. She’s the villain of the movie. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much: [A number of MCU villains have been shown to be "right" on a certain level. And just take their actions to an unfortunate extreme.
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Post by Iakus on May 8, 2022 3:10:53 GMT
I'm about halfway through Moon Knight, and man is this a weird show...
It's like the MCU is trying to do their own version of Venom. But more drugs were involved
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on May 8, 2022 3:32:43 GMT
I'm about halfway through Moon Knight, and man is this a weird show... It's like the MCU is trying to do their own version of Venom. But more drugs were involved "Drugs, man. Capital 'D' Drugs. I did my share,your share, his share, her share, their share....I did everybody's share!"-- Dennis Leary
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on May 8, 2022 6:36:49 GMT
Umm…from everything I’m hearing about Wanda in Multiverse of Madness they are not doing any of that. She’s the villain of the movie. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much: Well, when even the actor playing the villain in this film wants people to disagree with the character, I think it’s a pretty safe bet that this isn’t one of those.
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Post by Deleted on May 8, 2022 8:42:57 GMT
Moon Knight Ep 5-6 spoilers. Fair warning, I break it up but there's a wall of text and quotes about to open up on your screen if you click this.
Rewatched 5. At this point haven't seen 6. Steven and Marc's clothing choices in the stark white asylum were noteworthy.
Hippo-lady is nice. Cheerful is delightfully contradictory in that moment. That as an artistic choice to contrast the other scenes with Dr. Harrow is skillful. Very Marvel. And I do mean that in a good way.
Something about those plaster-white broken brick pipe walls in the asylum looks great. Properly wrong to the eye. Great job to whichever props/construction/design people worked it. Lots of obvious Egyptian paraphernalia around Arthur's office that almost felt like a distraction itself now compared to the overall aesthetic.
There's simultaneously a lot to unpack with the mom, but it also all boils down a lot too. Marc protecting Steven from finding out he's the creation was fascinatingly complex. My assumption that their hearts didn't weigh out because of a third personality may have been a bit off, but I also don't think I'm wrong there's a third. Taking a moment to appreciate Oscar Isaac's acting.
Dr. Harrow and Steven. When Dr. Harrow is pretending to call Steven's mom and Steven is making excuse after excuse for him not to. Phenomenal. Ah, yeah, the dad. Almost forgot. If there's a quiet tragedy in this it's the dad. Middle-man, peacekeeper, negotiator, and in serious need. Good acting too.
The ending. Okay, Steven accessed Marcs abilities at the end there. Then we lost Steven to the sand. There's a potential corollary there. What is losing Steven if Steven exists as Marc? Immaterial, hallucinatory? Dunno. Like I said, haven't seen 6 yet. The fact they're in separate facets of the same place is interesting though. And that, arguably, they're in the opposite of what they both feel they deserve, is also amusing. Hmm... actually that just moved a couple neurons in my brain. They're both kinda screwed. Wife to the rescue with hippo lady in the start of ep6?
*** I don't know why, but as I go into the 6th ep I find myself wondering if Khonshu really turns out to be relatively bad. Maybe redeemable, but there are two points he's hit on and one he's failed. He Punishes, but I'm not seeing a lot of Protect. And of the two I was expecting more of the Protect. My gut still says its a bit of a red herring but it's amidst a bloody school of red fish so I'm second guessing. *** Into 6 we go.
"Marc Specter, Steven Grant, whoever else might be in there..." Whoever else indeed Harrow. Innnnnndeeeeed... "Layla wait, I am the goddess Hippolady." The wife, and Hippolady. Saving the day. To be clear I am pausing ep 6 and writing right now just after the corpse said the above line. I mean, it wasn't a hard call but... nailed it. Cool. And lol. Also, tacitly the wife survived Harrows staff-explosion-soul-judgement? Question not assertion, did I miss something? She'd be in range right?
So. Harrow got his wet dream. Like, 101% Fulfillment. "Your death is delayed." "Say it again mommy..." This just after he bares his soul to judgement. He must've felt sublime.
The wife isn't stupid and doesn't trust Khonshu. Well thank fuck that's a nice change from an old shitty trope. Good. I won't dig to far into this, but I'll say I don't always think Marvel does an artistic job of promoting its worldviews despite my agreement of them. This was a well done moment showcasing a woman that chose wisely of her own capability and accord rather than plot-service.
Ammit says, "Khonshu, time has been cruel to you." Oh. Wow. Couple more cells stuck together that should've last episode. Or much sooner. Khonshu is a bird-skull. Hippolady is a live hippo... Ammit is a live crocodile. Huh. So, he's... a lich?
Marc saving Steven? Okay, not the lady-duo yet. Him willing himself there seems a bit, "we've got 6 episodes 45 minutes per-ish" but whatever.
Khonshu reasoning with Ammit? Wow. Even if it doesn't work the fact he's trying is something. Honestly it's almost out of character given what we've been presented with so far.
"You are the only real superpower I ever had." ... D'aww... Yes, our unique failures will teach us lessons no one else will ever entirely comprehend the way we will. ...and they're fighting. (Khonshu/Ammit the literal scene after I'd hoped they'd unexpectedly talk.) "I choose obliteration over mercy." Khonshu, you okay in there? In the moment maybe that line sounded heroic or something, but not to me. Just noticed the split of Steven's mask isn't even. It skews to his right. Left vs right brain? Okay. Hippolady and Wife. "I have a fabulous costume!" I hope you do!
Also, both when her and when Marc were possessed as avatars speaking, both times look like hilariously great challenges for their actors. Oscar Isaac did an amazing job vocalizing Khonshu in the avatar circle meeting dealymajiggy. He hit an abruptness and tensed his neck cutting his timing off, his acting was damn fine. Now she's doing the same thing but she's doing it with her own style. She's not emulating Isaac's. But, it's not a lesser version, she's nailed a different technique down. Now, it's fast shifting quick takes so there were probably a lot of them, but still. The finished product is put together wonderfully. I'm sorry but... that outfit is no where near as cool as Moonknights.
Gotta appreciate all the little moons they throw into the combat scenes. (And in general, there's one in the post credits too.)
... And suddenly there's an axe in Harrows forehead? I knew you'd throw the seasons end-boss fight on its head somehow.
No, it wasn't you, Steven. Even with a V. It was third.
***
Oh what a wonderful callback to the opening of the series. Harrow's feet are bleeding, and it's his tell. Which makes an underlying sense. Pain is his need.
Two goldfish. Righty's alright it appears. I dig it. Everything is well in the 'verse. *** Marc going back for Steven and accepting him, understanding that what he'd perceived as weaknesses and timidity were actually the strengths that allowed him to survive an abusive childhood was a nice touch. While I agree it seemed like he knew that all along though? Not in specific but in his sheltering of Steven. Steven was born out of a need to be weak sometimes. (Weak as perceived by Marc.) He was protective of these traits. "You get the life I can't have." I'm not clear on what happened to the remaining Egyptian gods...did they all die? Did just the avatars die? Are they still alive, just beaten in that moment? Was wondering that as the episode moved on. Seems like just the avatars, which makes sense. I mean... avatars for a reason. Lady Hippo talking through dead soldiers was equally grim and delightful. lol yes. I'd almost say, Tim Burton-esque. I hope there is at least some mention of the 'events in Cairo' in future MCU offerings. A bunch of people dying as purple light leaves their bodies is not the sort of thing that can be kept quiet. ...ehhhhhhhhhhh. We might disagree here. Not in essence, just that I can see it not getting referenced again. And I absolutely think they could keep it quiet.And most importantly, the post credit scene; We have a name for the third alt. Jake Lockley seems like a real piece of work. Can't fault the sentiment, I suppose, but that was some cold shit in the back of that limo. Dunno what to make of it or him. This is the guy that talked a date out of hot-museum-lady but he seems like a... wait. Nope. They don't have to be the same. That could be number four. Nevermind. Always check the fine print of agreements with the gods. Are you a Canshu or a Can'tshu? Marc and Steven wanted out. Jake didn't. So I guess that means Marc's body is still the avatar? Is Moon Knight the new Hulk in the MCU? Angry sand coloured rage monster? Because damn...the final fight scene with Harrod looked to be a lost cause and then Lockley goes beserk. If Marc with all his training couldn't free himself from Harrod, does that mean anger or hate plays into the strength of the suit? Ahmet dispassionately executed for pre-crime. Pretty abhorrent, but calm, almost forgiving in a way. She wanted to spare the world the suffering they'd cause. Konshu was all righteous anger and fury at actually committed evil. Punish vs Protect and I think we're noticing the same thing here. Khonshu has a mean streak. But Khonshu could have development too. All in all - I loved this. Hope we see more going forward. Would be really interesting to see Strange interact with Marc/Steven. Speaking of which... One of my new favourite marvel entries. They went a bit of a different heading than usual. They chose the perfect actor to try it with, and they apparently found direction, cinematography, supporting cast, and writing to match.
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Post by Hier0phant on May 8, 2022 12:38:59 GMT
Umm…from everything I’m hearing about Wanda in Multiverse of Madness they are not doing any of that. She’s the villain of the movie. Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much: Logically Wanda wasn't justified in what she did but Raimi absolved her character of any accountability unlike most other major MCU villains due to the Darkhold's ability to corrupt it's wielder, and it remains to be seen if she'll suffer the consequences of her actions like Bucky suffered if she returns.
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Post by Hier0phant on May 8, 2022 12:52:52 GMT
They shitted on Reed's and Black Bolt's characters who were supposed to be two of the most high iq characters on earth. Reed knowing Wanda's abilities slowly stretches his arm at her even though the man's a prep master who would have confronted her with tech like a Cosmic Cube. About Black Bolt i have no words for his death.
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So far 2024 is the same as the previous three years...
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Energizer Bunny 211 on May 8, 2022 12:56:05 GMT
Unfortunately, that doesn't mean much: Logically Wanda wasn't justified in what she did but Raimi absolved her character of any accountability unlike most other major MCU villains due to the Darkhold's ability to corrupt it's wielder, and it remains to be seen if she'll suffer the consequences of her actions like Bucky suffered if she returns. I can see it now, a columnist for a website that reviews things like star wars, marvel etc asking Raimi about Wanda's character development: "how do you write women so well?" asks the Writer "Well, I think of a man....and then I eliminate reason and accountability." (*Actually those are quotes from "As Good as It Gets" with Jack Nicholson and Dianne Keaton...but you said that Wanda (a female character) has no accontability for her actions....so I thought of that line and I thought it fit very well though I yhaven't seen either WANDAVISION or Multiverse of Madness so I can't speak to those things directly). And I just think that line from Jack is so funny...and perfectly "Jack Nicholson". I also loved the way he crashed Jennifer Lawrence's post-Oscar-winning interview, and how he'd said he had a mad crush on her. Also, very Jack.
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