Throw evolutions?

With the Fusion Mod of Adrenaline being a thing, improved Recharge Times are useless. Grab the FMoA on Havarl and never endure cooldowns again.

EDIT: ahglock , I wanted to check some things before sharing an opinion on Throw 6A and 6B (Detonation Damage vs Double Throw). With refreshed memory, I can now weigh in more clearly.

While I agree that there's definite value in looking at MP, particularly in regard to learning mechanics, seeing symmetries and getting build ideas, you can't trust the math. MP has been rebalanced since release. Also, it was never built the same from the beginning. SP has Profiles in the mix; augmented gear; NPC companions rather than player cohorts, etc... They're different beasts.

Regarding Throw specifically, it has always been one of my favorites in the MEU. It's simple, effective, and a logical first step in "what would I do if I were biotic?". In ME3, I loved Double Throw. In MEA, I'd gotten away from it in favor of +Combo Damage. I had to respec and run some battles to recall why, but the answer was quickly apparent. In ME3, the second projectile was extremely useful. If there wasn't a secondary target, it would often pummel the first with a double-strike, of sorts. It never went to waste. In my MEA experience, it never tracks the primary target. Unless your throwing into a crowd, the secondary Throw often just Sails off into space.

A second issue is that Throw seems to have inflict Detonation damage. I don't have math, and I acknowledge that observation can be unreliable. That said, I've observed a lot, and its detonations seem weak. Bumping that damage by +40% (?) is defintely worthwhile, particularly when weighed against the oft-useless secondary projectile.


This isn't the question you asked, but it was part of the memory-refreshing testing I just did, and some may find it worth reading. Lance detonation damage seems better in SP than that of Throw. Sometimes, you just want to Throw stuff. Throw can also prime at 5A, and that is potentially useful, I guess. It can be curved around obstructions, which is an advantage. Lance detonations, though, often leave the foe dead. The perceived higher damage might even apply to Biotic Echoes. I don't really know how Echoes works, mathematically. I do know that an Adept (Pull/Singularity/Lance) seems to have much more dramatic Biotic Detonations than its Throw-using equivalent. Lance also has the advantage of higher base damage, a weak point multiplier, and the ability to run off of barrier rather than cooldown at 6B. (The latter might seem odd in light of my plugging FMoA, but it helps with a common issue with Biotic Combos: there often seems to be a living foe dangling in the air after the initial detonations.) Being able to throw that extra Lance immediately is awesome. It means even more detonations, reset cooldowns (FMoA), +25% Barrier replenished (Shield Oscillator in the chest), etc... The firepower/detonations-on-demand is an awesome advantage of Lance.

I've defintely settled on a preferred evolution for Lance with which some might disagree. I go for 4B Radius over 4A Damage and 5B Anti-Shield over 5A Focused Blast. These are a result of a shared issue. I play on PS4Pro, do not use aim assist, and have very accurate aim. That said, the game still tries to aim-assist, even if the feature is disabled. It tends to pull shots and Lances ever so slightly toward center-mass. This means fewer headshots than I should be getting. The wider radius oddly seems to help with this. It also seems to help with foes in cover. With the less frequent headshots, and the abundance of shielded foes in SP, I find that Antishield is a broadly useful evolution. It makes a noticeable difference against shielded enemies.

Now that you mention it, that animation is a little silly. 😆 I guess they wanted to make it distinct from Throw? I'd have given it a similar type of animation, to be honest. I'm not sure that Ryder needs to look like he is actually throwing a javelin.

I think Double Throw into a Singularity is likely to be pretty damn effective, by the math. I always felt that Lance was doing more for me, but I'd not be surprised if that's a case in which Double Throw pulls ahead.

I love Singularity. It's still a favorite of mine after 4 games and varying levels of effectiveness. I think MEA's Singularity hits the sweet spot in terms of it always being effective to some degree. Depending upon evolutions, it grows wider throughout its duration; it drains barriers; and it primes everything within its radius. I think this is part of why I started liking Lance with Singularity on my Adepts. I played this on my very first PT, and my character was admittedly poorly built. Still, I did notice that having Lance on demand meant that I could fully take advantage of Singularity, getting tons of detonations during those 8+ seconds.

Just talking about Adept-style play makes me want to switch up to Adept for a while. I did so on my last PT, but got annoyed at how weak it is comparatively. Maybe adding Lance back into the equation will be enough to up the damage output to acceptable levels.

I like all of the builds, minus pure Engineer. It has bored me since ME2. I'm not sure I'd say "Sentinel" is too easy, especially in Andromeda. I'd rather say that other classes were a bit gimped in comparison in ME2 and 3.

In ME2, Sentinel was extremely tough and easy to play. It wasn't as powerful as a Soldier or Infiltrator, but it was very easy to be effective with a Sentinel. In ME3, it was a fun, effective class that I probably should've played more often. It has a tool for every situation, which is fun; but Adepts (the class always measured against Sentinel) could plough through shields with brute force biotics and had a fun, fast-paced playstyle. I'd not call either easier or better. The super-powered classes were the Invincible Vanguard and the Infiltrator. Soldier was a beast as always.

In MEA, those classes become Profiles, none of which are "easy mode". They're just combinations of perks. The destabilizing elements which the devs introduced into the game are the Fusion Mod of Adrenaline, and the OP Tech Passives.

FMoA is awesome. I'm glad it exists, because it makes the game more fun. By effectively eliminating cooldowns, though, it renders obsolete any skill evolutions and Profile perks that boost cooldown. That tilts the field just a bit.

The Tech Passives are the best skills in the game. It's not even close for "optimized" characters. They increase survivability of the entire party, and make the protagonist nearly unkillable. They boost the protagonist's weapon damage output significantly. "Active Barrier vs Technical Rounds or Life Support" and "Biotic Warrior vs Technical Rounds", as just two examples. The biotic evolutions are fun and balanced. An argument can be made to not select Active Barrier in favor of Saving Barrier, for some players. The same can't be said for the three big Tech Passives. They're so good you'd have to be actively gimping your Ryder not to take them. They're fun, but this is problematic. These skills are the "easy button", if such exists, rather than "Sentinel", "Vanguard" or any other Profile or playstyle. They create a situation in which any build can be fun, but builds with an active tech Skill are objectively better. It's uneven design.

In regard to Adepts and leveling: When the game first released, enemy-scaling continued past level 80 all the way to 132. They scaled faster than we could scale, so it created an ever worsening grind. They capped enemy-scaling at 80 in a patch, so now Ryder gets further and further ahead of the foes after level-80. I'd say that's in the Adept's favor, rather than detrimental. Enemies start becoming easier to kill. I find that Adept (always my favorite) shines at low-levels when crowd-control makes a huge difference in Ryder's survivability. Once Ryder gets to around level 10, his durability is much better. It becomes less about surviving and all about killing enemies as quickly as possible, at least if one is into efficiency. This is where the Adept falls behind. It can definitely do the job and scratch the layer's Biotic itch; but it will never be as good at killing as a gun-specialist, for one example. It's just not diversified enough in its toolkit if limited strictly to Biotic skills.

That aggressive Adept you describe is one I always enjoy. I still like to play that way in MEA, even if the exact weapon choices vary from game to game. I always find it much more fun to get into the mix than to hide in cover and pick at the enemies. One good thing about the jump-jets is that they hopefully made some whack-a-mole players a bit less reticent to play aggressively. The shy guys get to finally see the joys of rushing into the enemies' home and setting it afire.

That FMoRD does sound like it creates a fun, more challenging gameplay; gameplay maybe more in line with the devs' original intentions.* With the ability to create super-OP guns via RoF augmentations, the penalty could even be seen as a positive thing. All it does is offset the temporary perks of passives like "Technical Rounds".  

* I still can't understand how the FMoA came to be. Nothing else is close to as powerful, unless you're heavily using "power cell" combat skills. If such a powerful thing is to exist, maybe it should have been a late-game boon obtained via a quest. Use it throughout NG+, if you like.) Maybe it could've been the first technological advantage obtained via PeeBee's LM? It's just such a total game-changer that it's hard to believe that they contemplated it fully.