Bondari the Reloader
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 131 Likes: 280
inherit
548
0
280
Bondari the Reloader
131
August 2016
bondarithereloader
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Bondari the Reloader on Oct 7, 2016 5:07:03 GMT
Inquisition/Trespasser Spoilers Ahead!
I just finished Trespasser today (I know, I know, I'm very behind the times), and while I loved it overall, I'm very confused about whether Mythal is alive or dead or something in between. Hopefully someone can help me work this out.
In Inquisition, we learn that Flemeth is possessed by the elven "goddess" Mythal. It's implied that whatever she is, she's similar to a spirit/demon. This is why Flemeth raised daughters so she could possess them and achieve immortality. Morrigan wants no part of this, but Mythal takes the archdemon's soul from Kieran so everything's ok?
Then, in the Inquisition post-credits scene, Solas meets up with Flemeth/Mythal. They seem to be friends, and then Solas turns her to stone, killing her?
In Trespasser, from the murals in the elven ruins we learn that the elven "gods" weren't gods at all but powerful mages. At the time, I assumed this meant they were mortal, but when you meet up with Solas later he tells the Inquisitor that ancient elves were immortal. This still means they aren't spirits, though, right? They were physical elves?
Then, to make me even more confused, Solas tells the Inquisitor that the thing that the Evanuris did that made him mad enough to create the Veil was murdering Mythal. This after he just reminded my Inquisitor that she met Mythal and uses that as proof of his claim that the elven "gods" are difficult to kill. Where was my confused option on the dialog wheel?!
So, at the end of Trespasser, is Mythal alive or dead? Was her ancient elf form killed by the Evanuris, and only her spirit lived on in Flemeth somehow? What happened between her and Solas? Can we believe anything Solas says?
I really enjoyed Trespasser. It was the first time in any of the Dragon Age games that I felt invested in the elves and elven mythology. It just left me with a lot of questions, so hopefully someone with more knowledge of elven lore can clear things up for me. Thanks!
|
|
xerrai
N3
Posts: 842 Likes: 1,156
inherit
1451
0
1,156
xerrai
842
September 2016
xerrai
|
Post by xerrai on Oct 7, 2016 14:55:08 GMT
The general story seems to be that the evanuris killed Mythal. But a part of her--a wisp--still managed to live on and claw through the ages until it was willingly possessed by Flemeth.
But as for what happened at the end-credits scene with Solas....no one is sure. The general consensus is that Solas absorbed "an essence of Mythal's power" but we are not sure if that means he gained her soul, a part of her soul, or just something else. We also don't know what she put inside the eluvian.
And as for believing not believing whatever Solas says, that is mainly up to you.
|
|
secretrare
N2
Games: Dragon Age Inquisition
Posts: 240 Likes: 212
inherit
1602
0
Jul 16, 2018 12:17:31 GMT
212
secretrare
240
Sept 16, 2016 9:42:12 GMT
September 2016
secretrare
Dragon Age Inquisition
|
Post by secretrare on Oct 8, 2016 0:02:01 GMT
God means whatever you think it means,the Evanuris were gods for their people. For me flawed beings who can die do not deserve to be defined as gods and i do think not all Evanuris killed her but just some of them.
What Flemeth sent in that mirror? I don't know but sure wasn't Urthemiel in my case i don't think he survived the attack from Loghain in DAO.
|
|
Bondari the Reloader
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
Posts: 131 Likes: 280
inherit
548
0
280
Bondari the Reloader
131
August 2016
bondarithereloader
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by Bondari the Reloader on Oct 8, 2016 3:59:19 GMT
The general story seems to be that the evanuris killed Mythal. But a part of her--a wisp--still managed to live on and claw through the ages until it was willingly possessed by Flemeth. But as for what happened at the end-credits scene with Solas....no one is sure. The general consensus is that Solas absorbed "an essence of Mythal's power" but we are not sure if that means he gained her soul, a part of her soul, or just something else. We also don't know what she put inside the eluvian. And as for believing not believing whatever Solas says, that is mainly up to you. Thanks for the reply! I completely forgot that Flemeth put something in the eluvian, so that's just another layer to the mystery. My Inquisitor believes Solas, or wants to believe him anyway, but as a player I'm not so sure he's telling the truth. He is the trickster god, after all, and he didn't tell the Inquisitor about his encounter with Mythal. He also flat out refuses to answer all of the Inquisitor's questions, so he's definitely withholding information. I'm just not sure if he actually lied to her or not. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out in DA4.
|
|
inherit
∯ Alien Wizard
729
0
Sept 14, 2023 6:08:41 GMT
9,897
Ieldra
4,771
August 2016
ieldra
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
25190
6519
|
Post by Ieldra on Oct 8, 2016 5:56:50 GMT
The general story seems to be that the evanuris killed Mythal. But a part of her--a wisp--still managed to live on and claw through the ages until it was willingly possessed by Flemeth. But as for what happened at the end-credits scene with Solas....no one is sure. The general consensus is that Solas absorbed "an essence of Mythal's power" but we are not sure if that means he gained her soul, a part of her soul, or just something else. We also don't know what she put inside the eluvian. And as for believing not believing whatever Solas says, that is mainly up to you. Thanks for the reply! I completely forgot that Flemeth put something in the eluvian, so that's just another layer to the mystery. My Inquisitor believes Solas, or wants to believe him anyway, but as a player I'm not so sure he's telling the truth. He is the trickster god, after all, and he didn't tell the Inquisitor about his encounter with Mythal. He also flat out refuses to answer all of the Inquisitor's questions, so he's definitely withholding information. I'm just not sure if he actually lied to her or not. It'll be interesting to see how that all plays out in DA4. There is not the least evidence for him lying, and everything about the whole scene indicates he's telling the truth (as he sees it) about those things he speaks of. Of course he doesn't tell you the complete truth, but I think we can rely on the information he gives. Well, unless Bioware retcons things. I don't think they intended Solas to lie in this scene, but they can always decide retroactively that things are different and Solas lied to you in that scene. I'm completely convinced that if it turns out he did lie, this will be the reason rather than a lie that was intended from the start.
|
|
inherit
∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,678
gervaise21
10,795
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
|
Post by gervaise21 on Oct 9, 2016 20:12:29 GMT
In DA2 Flemeth got Hawke to take an amulet with a piece of her in it to Kirkwall as an insurance in case she was killed by Morrigan/Warden. When she is revived on her own altar (although we didn't know it at the time), and Hawke questions how she could be in the amulet, she remarks that bodies are such limiting things and implies that it is perfectly possible for her to be still surviving in more than one place. This could well explain what is going on with Solas in the epilogue.
When we are threatened by the approach of Corypheus in the Temple of Mythal, a watery looking figure rises out of where the Well was located and protects us. Presumably this was an aspect of Mythal too, which makes sense since Mythal is said to have been born of the sea and thus has strong connections with water. This water spirit then leaves through the eluvian and presumably locates the rest of Mythal. So it could be this most basic aspect of Mythal that she places in the eluvian at the end, or simply a piece of her "soul" like she did with the amulet. Whatever the case, from previous history it is clear that Flemeth/Mythal always has a contingency plan, so it seems highly unlikely that Mythal is gone or wholly absorbed by Solas but her vessel of Flemeth is likely abandoned. Nevertheless, should Flemeth pop up again, it will not be an entire surprise.
Solas is quite right that the Evanuris seem difficult to kill permanently and it is likely because of this split soul attribute. After all it was the spirits in the Well that enable the understanding of how Corypheus managed to cheat death and Solas also says that he never imagined that a Tevinter Magister would have discovered the secret of effective immortality. Mythal's wisp stayed hanging around in the Fade, still remembering her identity likely because there was another part of her still secreted somewhere in the world. So the trick to killing them is likely finding the missing pieces. So when Fen'Harel declared they were as mortal as he, he was making the point to his followers that they could be killed provided you found the key to their defence against death. It wasn't inherent immortality but magically manipulated immortality.
When talking about immortality in relation to the other elves, what he means is the lack of aging, so before the Veil the elves never grew old. Solas has endured to the present by entering Uthenera (a sort of hibernation). Since he is stuck on this side of the Veil, presumably he is affected by aging the same as the other elves, both ancient and modern, so the clock is ticking for him to complete his plan or re-enter Uthenera.
It would also appear from a conversation you can get at the Crossroads with Morrigan (provided certain conditions are met) that the eluvian network is slowly breaking down through its lack of connection to the Fade. This may also mean that it is going to be increasingly difficult for the ancient elves to maintain their existence through uthenera, so if that is the case, it could be why Solas seems to think the only means of survival for them is for him to remove the Veil. Neither he nor any of the ancient ones consider modern elves to be true elves, even though they must be descended from ancestors who decided to accept the new reality and perpetuate themselves by breeding offspring, instead of simply waiting for someone to come along and put things back to how they were before. After so many generations away from their origins, this has led to a different appearance (hair, varied skin tone,etc) even though they do still seem to have a magical signature to their blood, unlike standard humans.
At present it is not clear exactly how Solas intends saving his People from the affects of dropping the Veil, but from what he says to Lavellan, modern elves are going to die along with the other races when his plan comes to fruition.
|
|
oyabun
N3
Posts: 374 Likes: 214
inherit
1613
0
Aug 15, 2018 12:36:15 GMT
214
oyabun
374
Sept 17, 2016 22:36:29 GMT
September 2016
oyabun
|
Post by oyabun on Oct 9, 2016 20:54:40 GMT
In DA2 Flemeth got Hawke to take an amulet with a piece of her in it to Kirkwall as an insurance in case she was killed by Morrigan/Warden. When she is revived on her own altar (although we didn't know it at the time), and Hawke questions how she could be in the amulet, she remarks that bodies are such limiting things and implies that it is perfectly possible for her to be still surviving in more than one place. This could well explain what is going on with Solas in the epilogue. When we are threatened by the approach of Corypheus in the Temple of Mythal, a watery looking figure rises out of where the Well was located and protects us. Presumably this was an aspect of Mythal too, which makes sense since Mythal is said to have been born of the sea and thus has strong connections with water. This water spirit then leaves through the eluvian and presumably locates the rest of Mythal. So it could be this most basic aspect of Mythal that she places in the eluvian at the end, or simply a piece of her "soul" like she did with the amulet. Whatever the case, from previous history it is clear that Flemeth/Mythal always has a contingency plan, so it seems highly unlikely that Mythal is gone or wholly absorbed by Solas but her vessel of Flemeth is likely abandoned. Nevertheless, should Flemeth pop up again, it will not be an entire surprise. Solas is quite right that the Evanuris seem difficult to kill permanently and it is likely because of this split soul attribute. After all it was the spirits in the Well that enable the understanding of how Corypheus managed to cheat death and Solas also says that he never imagined that a Tevinter Magister would have discovered the secret of effective immortality. Mythal's wisp stayed hanging around in the Fade, still remembering her identity likely because there was another part of her still secreted somewhere in the world. So the trick to killing them is likely finding the missing pieces. So when Fen'Harel declared they were as mortal as he, he was making the point to his followers that they could be killed provided you found the key to their defence against death. It wasn't inherent immortality but magically manipulated immortality. When talking about immortality in relation to the other elves, what he means is the lack of aging, so before the Veil the elves never grew old. Solas has endured to the present by entering Uthenera (a sort of hibernation). Since he is stuck on this side of the Veil, presumably he is affected by aging the same as the other elves, both ancient and modern, so the clock is ticking for him to complete his plan or re-enter Uthenera. It would also appear from a conversation you can get at the Crossroads with Morrigan (provided certain conditions are met) that the eluvian network is slowly breaking down through its lack of connection to the Fade. This may also mean that it is going to be increasingly difficult for the ancient elves to maintain their existence through uthenera, so if that is the case, it could be why Solas seems to think the only means of survival for them is for him to remove the Veil. Neither he nor any of the ancient ones consider modern elves to be true elves, even though they must be descended from ancestors who decided to accept the new reality and perpetuate themselves by breeding offspring, instead of simply waiting for someone to come along and put things back to how they were before. After so many generations away from their origins, this has led to a different appearance (hair, varied skin tone,etc) even though they do still seem to have a magical signature to their blood, unlike standard humans. At present it is not clear exactly how Solas intends saving his People from the affects of dropping the Veil, but from what he says to Lavellan, modern elves are going to die along with the other races when his plan comes to fruition. Too much confusing stuff here. The well of sorrow did not told you how to disable Corypheus and his ability,the well was used only to call Flemeth,later she told you about that but the voices did not said anything about his ability,they were just whispers controlled by Flemeth. Uthenara is not related to the crossroads,Abelas did not said that he had issues with Uthenara in fact as soon as he left that temple he wanted to return in it.
|
|