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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 15:46:19 GMT
By seeing some idiot in hot pink armor teabagging whatever alien they just downed? People camping spawn points? People standing around in the jungle dancing, emoting, or otherwise screwing around? And that's assuming various forms of griefing are made too difficult to bother with. You didn't read my previous reply. You control who joins your shared world. You don't want randoms? Disable public joins. Make it invitation only. Can you do that when you're just out free-playing? (Or free-styling or whatever the term is for when you're out in the world but not on a specific mission).
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 13, 2018 15:47:15 GMT
So, again, you're saying DAI was a complete waste of time? Because there was no story in the Fallow Mire, The Hissing Wastes, The Exalted Plains, etc. Those maps "took you out of the story". Yes, there was story in those places. They weren't part of the MAIN storyline, but you were in those places for a reason. Okay, then, what's the problem? Again, not seeing how your immersion is going to be broken by a random 13 year old. Personally, I don't think there was any scripted story in those DAI maps, but if you mean the general experiential feeling of just dicking around in a lored map with random mobs and set-piece boss battles, or doing missions/quests, sure, that's the shared world in Anthem too. Which, again, you control with respect to who joins. So you can immerse yourself in the shared world without interruption, with control of both voice chat and who can even be there in the first place.
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Post by Heimdall on Jun 13, 2018 15:47:45 GMT
You didn't read my previous reply. You control who joins your shared world. You don't want randoms? Disable public joins. Make it invitation only. Can you do that when you're just out free-playing? (Or free-styling or whatever the term is for when you're out in the world but not on a specific mission). Unknown at this time. I would guess yes.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 13, 2018 15:48:40 GMT
The hub may be where most of the dialogue is based, but story is everywhere. If taking me out of the hub takes me out of the story, then the game is a complete waste of time. So, again, you're saying DAI was a complete waste of time? Because there was no story in the Fallow Mire, The Hissing Wastes, The Exalted Plains, etc. Those maps "took you out of the story". How was there no story in the Fellow Mire? The only reason you go there is to save a bunch of captured Inquisition soldiers from a brash young Avvar warlord. On the way to save them, you come across a curse that has resurrected corpses, you meet the Avvar Sky Watcher Amund, you stop to have a dialogue with him and you can even recruit to your cause and so on and so on. Even your example for the least story intense region of DA:I has heaps of content in the "open" which would be tough to implement if you want to focus on coop play outside of a hub area.
And I am with iakus here, doesn't even have to be chat but players very often just move in weird ways or do other very fun things but certainly things that look very unnatural in the game world, which completely throws me out of the whole atmosphere and immersion that I need to enjoy a story (even if we are in a gameplay segment between progression). To me, the story doesn't just stop at the gate of town, me going out on a mission should be part of it or it will feel very artificial.
The whole "99% of other players throw me off the immersion" issue is a problem that a lot of MMOs, even the story heavier ones like TOR and TESO have, even if you play alone and I don't see Anthem providing an answer for it. And if there had been 20 other Inquisitors running and jumping around in the Fellow Mire or the Hissing Wastes, yes, that would definitely have thrown me off big time, chat or no.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 13, 2018 15:55:30 GMT
You didn't read my previous reply. You control who joins your shared world. You don't want randoms? Disable public joins. Make it invitation only. Can you do that when you're just out free-playing? (Or free-styling or whatever the term is for when you're out in the world but not on a specific mission). I could be wrong, but I believe so. They definitely talk about controlling public joins or making them invitation only. I'll admit, that control might be limited to some scope smaller than the entire shared world, though. For example, it might only apply to things that use matchmaking, like missions. But AFAIK, they didn't say controlling public joins did not apply to free roam.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 13, 2018 16:00:54 GMT
So, again, you're saying DAI was a complete waste of time? Because there was no story in the Fallow Mire, The Hissing Wastes, The Exalted Plains, etc. Those maps "took you out of the story". How was there no story in the Fellow Mire? The only reason you go there is to save a bunch of captured Inquisition soldiers from a brash young Avvar warlord. Well, I don't know about you, but that's not the reason I went there, if I went there at all. Dawn Lotus had a much bigger draw for me. But I don't count non-cutscene, non-dialogue side quests as story. Different strokes, I guess. Well, as I said above, I think you can control public joins, so that shouldn't be a problem. Since you have a broader definition of story than I do, I don't see a problem. Go ahead and get your mission-oriented story bits from the shared world, nothing they've said would stop you from doing so.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 16:06:42 GMT
Can you do that when you're just out free-playing? (Or free-styling or whatever the term is for when you're out in the world but not on a specific mission). I could be wrong, but I believe so. They definitely talk about controlling public joins or making them invitation only. I'll admit, that control might be limited to some scope smaller than the entire shared world, though. For example, it might only apply to things that use matchmaking, like missions. But AFAIK, they didn't say controlling public joins did not apply to free roam. But we also know things like this: In Free Play you can jump in and help others with an objective, combat, etc. without having to join the group. [Source]
There will be Lore to find in Free Play. [Source]
The game also generates minor tasks to complete; we saw a downed freelancer who needed help, and a member of the Sentinels (an organization that protects Fort Tarsis) to rescue. [Source]
(That downed freelancer may have been AI rather than an actual player). I suppose they might make it possible for you to go out in an instantiation you'd have all to yourself, but the whole point of this implementation and world seems to be to bring people together in coop play.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 16:10:10 GMT
The whole "99% of other players throw me off the immersion" issue is a problem that a lot of MMOs, even the story heavier ones like TOR and TESO have, even if you play alone and I don't see Anthem providing an answer for it. And if there had been 20 other Inquisitors running and jumping around in the Fellow Mire or the Hissing Wastes, yes, that would definitely have thrown me off big time, chat or no.
Strangely seeing other players in ESO and TOR doesn't bother me given the nature of the game I'm playing. I just ignore them and concentrate on what I'm doing. Don't really know enough how Anthem will work in reguards to seeing other players as yet and I suspect we really won't until we can actually play the game.
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Post by giubba on Jun 13, 2018 16:15:25 GMT
It's gonna be hard to immerse yourself in a story while listening to a 13 year old insult your mother through the headphones... it cannot happen.
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Post by AnDromedary on Jun 13, 2018 16:16:14 GMT
I suppose they might make it possible for you to go out in an instantiation you'd have all to yourself, but the whole point of this implementation and world seems to be to bring people together in coop play. That is kind of the point of the thread. Yes, it is possible they make a really great SP experience into their coop game but all indications are that they won't BECAUE it is built as a coop game. The two just don't mesh very well. Even if they put some story bits into the world, they very likely will not do anything that could stop or slow down gameplay (because that would be bad for the coop part). So the best we can hope for is maybe some audio playing in the background or things like that. As I wrote, even the Fellow Mire or the Hissing Wastes had bespoke dialogue scenes with characters. And that was already on the low end.
We'll have to see, maybe BW will surprise us but it is my concern that for a story driven player like me, this "story happens in the hub" thing will make things very artificial and non immersive and thus, the game will very likely not be for me (even if the actual content of it may not be bad per se). That of course is all fair enough but given that I actually quite like the aethetics of Anthem and wouldn't mind the gameplay as it looks right now, that is the one aspect of it that would really be a deal breaker, which would be a shame in a way.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 13, 2018 16:17:25 GMT
I could be wrong, but I believe so. They definitely talk about controlling public joins or making them invitation only. I'll admit, that control might be limited to some scope smaller than the entire shared world, though. For example, it might only apply to things that use matchmaking, like missions. But AFAIK, they didn't say controlling public joins did not apply to free roam. But we also know things like this: In Free Play you can jump in and help others with an objective, combat, etc. without having to join the group. [Source]
There will be Lore to find in Free Play. [Source]
The game also generates minor tasks to complete; we saw a downed freelancer who needed help, and a member of the Sentinels (an organization that protects Fort Tarsis) to rescue. [Source]
(That downed freelancer may have been AI rather than an actual player). I suppose they might make it possible for you to go out in an instantiation you'd have all to yourself, but the whole point of this implementation and world seems to be to bring people together in coop play. Right, but what isn't clear is if Free Play is a default mode, like Destiny, or if it's a choice you make each time you leave a story zone, like, you join a server to do a Mission, or Stronghold, or Free Play, and each has it's own controls or matchmaking. The ability to jump in and help doesn't preclude controls on Free Play, it just means the proviso "in Free Play on a public server" was assumed. Fuck it, I'll tweet Mark Darrah and see if I can get a definitive answer.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 13, 2018 16:39:55 GMT
I suppose they might make it possible for you to go out in an instantiation you'd have all to yourself, but the whole point of this implementation and world seems to be to bring people together in coop play. That is kind of the point of the thread. Yes, it is possible they make a really great SP experience into their coop game but all indications are that they won't BECAUE it is built as a coop game. The two just don't mesh very well. Even if they put some story bits into the world, they very likely will not do anything that could stop or slow down gameplay (because that would be bad for the coop part). So the best we can hope for is maybe some audio playing in the background or things like that. As I wrote, even the Fellow Mire or the Hissing Wastes had bespoke dialogue scenes with characters. And that was already on the low end.
We'll have to see, maybe BW will surprise us but it is my concern that for a story driven player like me, this "story happens in the hub" thing will make things very artificial and non immersive and thus, the game will very likely not be for me (even if the actual content of it may not be bad per se). That of course is all fair enough but given that I actually quite like the aethetics of Anthem and wouldn't mind the gameplay as it looks right now, that is the one aspect of it that would really be a deal breaker, which would be a shame in a way.
I think I saw somewhere that there will actually be cutscenes in missions, but no dialogue within them (at least none that involves player choice - there may be autodialogue). All of the players on the mission will see the cutscenes. Also, a cypher (Owen?) may be providing narration as you go along. The way I'm trying to wrap my head around the whole thing involves a few steps, which sorta go like this: -- Instead of having NPC followers, you can have other players accompany you on missions. -- Any friendships/relationships you have with NPCs will be the NPCs who populate "hub" areas - Fort Tarsis, the Strider, etc. -- The story aspects probably won't be as in-depth or detailed as we've become accustomed to - but then, I've always sort of felt like some amount of responsibility for narrative creation and engagement is on the player, anyway. That may apply to RP as well, since it mostly takes place in the head of the player. We definitely need more information - and time to process it.
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Post by isaidlunch on Jun 13, 2018 23:39:47 GMT
SWTOR is what happens when you prioritize story over gameplay in an online game. I doubt they'll make the same mistake again. That "mistake" has went past the $1 billion revenue mark. It's a financially sucessful game. I doubt BioWare or EA have a problem with that. I'm sure they have a problem with games like FFXIV and ESO overtaking it because of all the people that left in 4.0. It's still a very profitable game, but it could've made a lot more if they catered to the endgame crowd instead.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 13, 2018 23:43:51 GMT
That "mistake" has went past the $1 billion revenue mark. It's a financially sucessful game. I doubt BioWare or EA have a problem with that. I'm sure they have a problem with games like FFXIV and ESO overtaking it because of all the people that left in 4.0. It's still a very profitable game, but it could've made a lot more if they catered to the endgame crowd instead. KOTFE and KOTET were their most sucessful expansions by a long shot- this was stated by BioWare devs.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 14, 2018 0:25:50 GMT
That is kind of the point of the thread. Yes, it is possible they make a really great SP experience into their coop game but all indications are that they won't BECAUE it is built as a coop game. The two just don't mesh very well. Even if they put some story bits into the world, they very likely will not do anything that could stop or slow down gameplay (because that would be bad for the coop part). So the best we can hope for is maybe some audio playing in the background or things like that. As I wrote, even the Fellow Mire or the Hissing Wastes had bespoke dialogue scenes with characters. And that was already on the low end.
We'll have to see, maybe BW will surprise us but it is my concern that for a story driven player like me, this "story happens in the hub" thing will make things very artificial and non immersive and thus, the game will very likely not be for me (even if the actual content of it may not be bad per se). That of course is all fair enough but given that I actually quite like the aethetics of Anthem and wouldn't mind the gameplay as it looks right now, that is the one aspect of it that would really be a deal breaker, which would be a shame in a way.
I think I saw somewhere that there will actually be cutscenes in missions, but no dialogue within them (at least none that involves player choice - there may be autodialogue). Yes I saw that too, good point. Not as immersive as ME or DA with dialogue as well, but better than nothing I suppose.
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Post by helios969 on Jun 15, 2018 20:34:12 GMT
Depends how you want to quantify sensible. I think it's a more lucrative approach (potentially) to the recent past...and a more novel one with separating story for the individual experience and the MP aspect for the gameplay. What I sort of doubt is how much synergy can be achieved between those seeking story and those wanting to wreck stuff. Likely the playerbase will end up segregated into those playing for the story content who will end up soloing or pug'ging with other story players; and hardcores who casually play the story and primarily like to go with friends or others who want to dominate the scoreboards. And I don't really see that as much of an issue. For me, it doesn't really matter because I can already tell I'll get my money's worth out of this game. I'll play it for the story initially; then go smash stuff with others. Win-win from where I'm sitting.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 21:29:01 GMT
I'm sure they have a problem with games like FFXIV and ESO overtaking it because of all the people that left in 4.0. It's still a very profitable game, but it could've made a lot more if they catered to the endgame crowd instead. KOTFE and KOTET were their most sucessful expansions by a long shot- this was stated by BioWare devs. Yes but (and with SWTOR there usually is) what the devs planned was three 16 episodes seasons what we got was one and half, the half being rushed as hell oh and the fiasco that was the introduction of Galactic Command. SWTOR has had a very chequered history from day one but somehow it's still here hanging on by it's finger nails. How much longer is another matter.
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Post by rras1994 on Jun 15, 2018 21:37:04 GMT
KOTFE and KOTET were their most sucessful expansions by a long shot- this was stated by BioWare devs. Yes but (and with SWTOR there usually is) what the devs planned was three 16 episodes seasons what we got was one and half, the half being rushed as hell oh and the fiasco that was the introduction of Galactic Command. SWTOR has had a very chequered history from day one but somehow it's still here hanging on by it's finger nails. How much longer is another matter. Yeah but the above post mentioned that 4.0 wasn't sucessful due to lack of group content, yet we know that 4.0 and 5.0 were the most sucessful despite not focusing on group content. Though I do agree it's disappointing they changed their plans, as the approach seemed to be working, but given the timing it does seem to have something to do with resources for MEA. Oh what might've been as while I did love the KOTFE/KOTET storyline, I would have loved more of it and some parts felt rushed. Loved Valkorian. I don't quite agree with you about Galactic Command as I think it's a really good lvling system now, but you can tell the concept was a bit rushed causing all the problems at launch (at least in my opinion). Am hopeful 6.0 will be good.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 15, 2018 22:01:35 GMT
Yes but (and with SWTOR there usually is) what the devs planned was three 16 episodes seasons what we got was one and half, the half being rushed as hell oh and the fiasco that was the introduction of Galactic Command. SWTOR has had a very chequered history from day one but somehow it's still here hanging on by it's finger nails. How much longer is another matter. Yeah but the above post mentioned that 4.0 wasn't sucessful due to lack of group content, yet we know that 4.0 and 5.0 were the most sucessful despite not focusing on group content. Though I do agree it's disappointing they changed their plans, as the approach seemed to be working, but given the timing it does seem to have something to do with resources for MEA. Oh what might've been as while I did love the KOTFE/KOTET storyline, I would have loved more of it and some parts felt rushed. Loved Valkorian. I don't quite agree with you about Galactic Command as I think it's a really good lvling system now, but you can tell the concept was a bit rushed causing all the problems at launch (at least in my opinion). Am hopeful 6.0 will be good. I agree with you now that CG is in as a good a place as we can hope for though personally there was nothing wrong with the old crystal system why they changed something that worked well and wasn't broken has remained a total mystery to me. We could debate why CG fell flat to start with but that's a dead horse by this point. Let's hope SWOTR gets everyone back that Anthem poached so they can knock 6.0 out the park.
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Post by trinity0 on Jun 15, 2018 22:10:40 GMT
Yeah but the above post mentioned that 4.0 wasn't sucessful due to lack of group content, yet we know that 4.0 and 5.0 were the most sucessful despite not focusing on group content. Though I do agree it's disappointing they changed their plans, as the approach seemed to be working, but given the timing it does seem to have something to do with resources for MEA. Oh what might've been as while I did love the KOTFE/KOTET storyline, I would have loved more of it and some parts felt rushed. Loved Valkorian. I don't quite agree with you about Galactic Command as I think it's a really good lvling system now, but you can tell the concept was a bit rushed causing all the problems at launch (at least in my opinion). Am hopeful 6.0 will be good. I agree with you now that CG is in as a good a place as we can hope for though personally there was nothing wrong with the old crystal system why they changed something that worked well and wasn't broken has remained a total mystery to me. We could debate why CG fell flat to start with but that's a dead horse by this point. Let's hope SWOTR gets everyone back that Anthem poached so they can knock 6.0 out the park. I stopped my SWTOR Subscription for the Moment because there is no Story Content planed in 2018. They only focus on PvP this year.
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Post by Shinrai on Jun 18, 2018 8:29:48 GMT
The one question I have regarding story immersion is this: Say you invited 1-3 of your friends to play Anthem with you via FL (or whatever system Bioware has planned). I am pretty sure a lot do the same thing I will do when playing with friends: sitting with them in Discord or Teamspeak, enjoying our time together. And I am pretty sure they won't stop talking if you say "Sorry guys, I want to enjoy my bit of story for the moment. Could you please shut up for the next 3 Minutes? Oh and XY please stop eating your chips everytime I start a conversation with a NPC ingame, thx." "Ehm...but I am hungry." And then there are things like family and children who decide spontaniously to talk into the headset or just want something while you or your friends sit through the story progression. You can't say "Guys I play Anthem for the next couple of hours. Don't disturb me or come into my room." Experience I had with games like SWToR etc. was that the person who wanted to enjoy the story or had something to do in rl said: "Psst. Story.""Or sorry, my kid just did xy..:" right before muting Discord/Teamspeak for themselfes for the time being and reactivate it afterwards.
And then there are that handfull of friends who like the looting/shooting aspect more than the story or are far more ahead in the story than you and are always like "Yeah...just hurry up - skip the story bit." or that it is not important. Or the best: they spoil everything because they want you to hurry up. If there is a mechanic like skipping cutscenes and the like which have to be confirmed partywide or something like that it'll get more complicated.
Pretty immersion breaking right? Switching in and out of game/program. So how would you as a player handle that? What kind of system could prevent something like that? I wouldn't know one. Things like "Play the game just with chat." or something like "Your friends should be so kind and respect your wishes" might be polite, but not really realistic (at least not with my crazy bunch of friends - and I am thankfull for that. At least for me it would be totally boring otherwise.)
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Post by goishen on Jun 19, 2018 1:07:30 GMT
The one question I have regarding story immersion is this: Say you invited 1-3 of your friends to play Anthem with you via FL (or whatever system Bioware has planned). I am pretty sure a lot do the same thing I will do when playing with friends: sitting with them in Discord or Teamspeak, enjoying our time together. And I am pretty sure they won't stop talking if you say "Sorry guys, I want to enjoy my bit of story for the moment. Could you please shut up for the next 3 Minutes? Oh and XY please stop eating your chips everytime I start a conversation with a NPC ingame, thx." "Ehm...but I am hungry." And then there are things like family and children who decide spontaniously to talk into the headset or just want something while you or your friends sit through the story progression. You can't say "Guys I play Anthem for the next couple of hours. Don't disturb me or come into my room." Experience I had with games like SWToR etc. was that the person who wanted to enjoy the story or had something to do in rl said: "Psst. Story.""Or sorry, my kid just did xy..:" right before muting Discord/Teamspeak for themselfes for the time being and reactivate it afterwards.
And then there are that handfull of friends who like the looting/shooting aspect more than the story or are far more ahead in the story than you and are always like "Yeah...just hurry up - skip the story bit." or that it is not important. Or the best: they spoil everything because they want you to hurry up. If there is a mechanic like skipping cutscenes and the like which have to be confirmed partywide or something like that it'll get more complicated.
Pretty immersion breaking right? Switching in and out of game/program. So how would you as a player handle that? What kind of system could prevent something like that? I wouldn't know one. Things like "Play the game just with chat." or something like "Your friends should be so kind and respect your wishes" might be polite, but not really realistic (at least not with my crazy bunch of friends - and I am thankfull for that. At least for me it would be totally boring otherwise.) I can guarantee that it'll be just like you described. Take a look at SWTOR. You had people in that game skipping cut scenes what? 3 days after the game came out? The game'll still fun, if it is fun, but I won't say that people won't argue.
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✜ Forge Mechanic
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PapaCharlie9
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papacharlie9
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Jun 19, 2018 1:44:22 GMT
And I am pretty sure they won't stop talking if you say "Sorry guys, I want to enjoy my bit of story for the moment. Could you please shut up for the next 3 Minutes? Most of the time, there won't be any "guys" around for you to hear. Most of the story will be SP in Fort Tarsis, your Strider, etc. No coop, no interruptions. What story there is when you're with friends -- limited cutscenes with no interaction/dialogue -- you can mute/all if you have to. They are seeing the same cutscene, presumably can't skip it, so you won't fall behind. For Teamspeak, I had one button mapped to mute me and another to mute all. Easy-peasy.
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0
4,632
Link"Guess"ski
3,882
August 2016
linkenski
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
Linkenski
asblinkenski
Linkenski
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Jun 21, 2018 3:08:37 GMT
Right. Anthem is a story-poop hybrid game.
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Glorious Star Lord
822
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Jan 24, 2024 17:47:40 GMT
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Jun 21, 2018 6:40:15 GMT
The one question I have regarding story immersion is this: Say you invited 1-3 of your friends to play Anthem with you via FL (or whatever system Bioware has planned). I am pretty sure a lot do the same thing I will do when playing with friends: sitting with them in Discord or Teamspeak, enjoying our time together. And I am pretty sure they won't stop talking if you say "Sorry guys, I want to enjoy my bit of story for the moment. Could you please shut up for the next 3 Minutes? Oh and XY please stop eating your chips everytime I start a conversation with a NPC ingame, thx." "Ehm...but I am hungry." And then there are things like family and children who decide spontaniously to talk into the headset or just want something while you or your friends sit through the story progression. You can't say "Guys I play Anthem for the next couple of hours. Don't disturb me or come into my room." Experience I had with games like SWToR etc. was that the person who wanted to enjoy the story or had something to do in rl said: "Psst. Story.""Or sorry, my kid just did xy..:" right before muting Discord/Teamspeak for themselfes for the time being and reactivate it afterwards.
And then there are that handfull of friends who like the looting/shooting aspect more than the story or are far more ahead in the story than you and are always like "Yeah...just hurry up - skip the story bit." or that it is not important. Or the best: they spoil everything because they want you to hurry up. If there is a mechanic like skipping cutscenes and the like which have to be confirmed partywide or something like that it'll get more complicated.
Pretty immersion breaking right? Switching in and out of game/program. So how would you as a player handle that? What kind of system could prevent something like that? I wouldn't know one. Things like "Play the game just with chat." or something like "Your friends should be so kind and respect your wishes" might be polite, but not really realistic (at least not with my crazy bunch of friends - and I am thankfull for that. At least for me it would be totally boring otherwise.) This is why I basically just flat out ignore the pesky IRL people when dealing with the actual campaign.
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