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Post by Iddy on Jun 23, 2018 12:46:35 GMT
Always having to choose between diplomatic, sarcastic and aggressive.
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Post by Catilina on Jun 23, 2018 15:05:19 GMT
No. you don't need to use always just one kind personality. Nice guys not always nice, the jokesters aren't always funny, and the aggressive ones can have a soft spot in their heart – or make rude jokes, or both.
My concepts of Hawke: Blue Hawke, for me, was the tragic one. I like him least, he wanted to save everything, to compromise in everything and wanted to comply with everyone (an opportunist). At the end, he lost everything (faith, his friend, himself, what for he fought), but saved his brother… In my head their relationship ruined. (Perhaps, I should try another one, in a different path…)
Purple Hawke’s not really always fun, and not that cheerful. Depends on the mix, he can be a funny, charming but nice guy, or a burned out sarcastic bastard, or a serious sociopath too. The sad clown. Probably my favourite, besides the red!Hawke.
Red Hawke can be the most trustworthy wo/man ever. Can’t lie, and manipulate. His/her moral standards are high and cruelly honest. A true knight, a hero, but not the kind one (true, can be, if feels). Hothead or and really bad in the diplomacy and have social problems, but despite this, can be the best friend ever. Or a cold-blooded psychopath murderer... Or between this two.
So: I found Hawke's personality much more flexible than the Inquisitor's. Only depends on the MIX of the base personalities.
There are many potentials in this. For example, Hawke can change with the story:
I. At the beginning–Act1 despite the tragedy, s/he can keep his/her helpfulness and charm (or at least try to keep it). Returning from the Deep Roads, s/he already lost his/her sister/brother or can feel betrayed (Carver), at the moment s/he can lose his/her charm, and become angry, but still helpful (Act2). After his/her mother's death, s/he already only sarcastic, disappointed sometimes angry, but rather impatient. II. At the beginning s/he's an impatient hot-headed young, aggressive, sometimes perhaps can be charming (protective toward his/her family). At act 2 s/he lost his/her temper, and become rather sarcastic: on one hand, s/he lost his brother/sister, on other hand s/he became rich noble (more sarcastic, less aggressive). At Act 3, qunari gone, s/he's already the Champion of Kirkwall. S/He feel responsibility for his/her home, the people (and remained brother/sister). Despite his/her mother's death, start to hope again, and working for his/her city. S/he becomes more patient and helpful. At the end he finally s/he realized, that his/her helpfulness was totally wasted. S/He already a silent mad.
So... I suppose, while Hawke's a cartoonish hero, the most living one.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 23, 2018 17:38:25 GMT
"Limits roleplay" compared to what?
You get as many (or more) dialogue options as we got in Origins, and knowing the tone of what I'm about to say lets me make a much better-informed decision. The actual words are not important at all, compared to knowing whether my delivery will be sincere or sarcastic.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 23, 2018 18:19:59 GMT
Yes, and no. I don't force myself to keep to a particular personality type. I pick responses that fit a given situation.
That said, I don't like the personality system because it's just too extreme on all levels. The nice options are sometimes too nice, the sarcastic options are sometimes too sarcastic, bordering on assholy on some occasions, and the aggressive are sometimes too aggressive, bordering on assholey on some occasions. I greatly prefer the DAI style; I know many people consider the Inquisitor be "bland," but I don't.
However, I do quite like the dialogue wheel structure. In my recent play of DAO, I occasionally found myself frustrated because I might pick something that I thought was an investigate option, but ended up moving the conversation on. That's not an issue with the wheel, where the investigates are clearly separated from those options that continue the conversation.
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Post by Iddy on Jun 23, 2018 18:50:58 GMT
"Limits roleplay" compared to what? You get as many (or more) dialogue options as we got in Origins, and knowing the tone of what I'm about to say lets me make a much better-informed decision. The actual words are not important at all, compared to knowing whether my delivery will be sincere or sarcastic. In origins, we got 5 options sometimes and they weren't narrowed down to categories they absolutely must fit into.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jun 23, 2018 19:07:58 GMT
"Limits roleplay" compared to what? You get as many (or more) dialogue options as we got in Origins, and knowing the tone of what I'm about to say lets me make a much better-informed decision. The actual words are not important at all, compared to knowing whether my delivery will be sincere or sarcastic. In origins, we got 5 options sometimes and they weren't narrowed down to categories they absolutely must fit into. You get more than 5 options sometimes with the dialogue wheel. There's a whole other side of it where the branching questions for additional information are kept. BioWare has publicly gone on record, saying that they went with the dialogue wheel for DA specifically because it allowed room for more options.
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Post by copper on Jun 23, 2018 19:36:55 GMT
I really liked Hawke's personality system. DA2 handled the dialogue wheel better than mass effect I thought. The game did a good job of letting you influence Hawke's dominant personality that would come through in banter while also letting you stray from that when the situation called for it. I guess I also don't see a huge difference from Origins, other than the presence of voice acting and the ability to tell the tone of what you're saying; the wheel generally had the same number of options as in Origins, just organized a little differently.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 23, 2018 20:12:40 GMT
More than the three options themselves, what I didn't like about Hawke's system was how the autodialogue would change based on which you chose most. An interesting idea, but it made more cons than pros.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2018 8:28:09 GMT
no.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 24, 2018 22:37:54 GMT
I think we're limited in every game, because the writers are telling a specific story and in order to tell that story the protagonist has to fit whatever narrative they've got going on.
Personally I think the Inquisitor, regardless of voice actor (so it probably comes down to direction), sounds reeaaally muted. Like they're on Valium or just woke up in the morning or they're really bored. Even with the emotional responses I find they don't emote all that much. That's because regardless of your choices, the Inquisitor's got to be somewhat of a responsible do-gooder who may or may not crack a joke once in a while. Hawke, whether they're diplomatic, snarky, or blunt, is a larger-than-life personality with enough charisma to keep the Kirkwall gang around for 7+ years, because that's who the writers needed as DA2's protagonist
Both "limit" roleplay, just as "being a Grey Warden" limits roleplay in DAO. They're trying to tell a certain story.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Jun 25, 2018 4:21:33 GMT
Personally I think the Inquisitor, regardless of voice actor (so it probably comes down to direction), sounds reeaaally muted. I truly don't hear this. Maybe I'm just boring...
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jun 25, 2018 4:40:19 GMT
Personally I think the Inquisitor, regardless of voice actor (so it probably comes down to direction), sounds reeaaally muted. I truly don't hear this. Maybe I'm just boring... Same here. I always thought they did a good job expressing the emotion they are supposed to rather than being muted.
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Post by vertigomez on Jun 25, 2018 4:59:21 GMT
Personally I think the Inquisitor, regardless of voice actor (so it probably comes down to direction), sounds reeaaally muted. I truly don't hear this. Maybe I'm just boring... It's just in comparison to others. The Inquisitor is always going to appear more reserved than, say, Dorian and Sera, who are more expressive. Their tone shifts a lot more than the Inquisitor's. Likewise purple Hawke goes tit-for-tat with Varric and Isabela because all three of those characters were designed to be snarky and exuberant.
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Post by Noxluxe on Aug 5, 2018 13:49:33 GMT
I truly don't hear this. Maybe I'm just boring... It's just in comparison to others. The Inquisitor is always going to appear more reserved than, say, Dorian and Sera, who are more expressive. Their tone shifts a lot more than the Inquisitor's. Likewise purple Hawke goes tit-for-tat with Varric and Isabela because all three of those characters were designed to be snarky and exuberant. As a member of a people far less flamboyant and dramatic than Americans generally are, the Inquisitor certainly doesn't feel muted to me, while characters like Sera and Dorian seem frankly cartoonish. What I miss, however, is the ability for my character to express complicated opinions. It's hard to take Hawke/The Inquisitor very seriously as a leader when they basically never utter more than one sentence at a time, and only express opinions or thoughts that are either very vague and broad or pretty inconsistent. In my experience, the ability to understand and concisely and accurately respond to the reality of a situation is the most important one for any leader or administrator. The dialogue wheel takes that completely away in favor of hit-and-miss voice-acting. In that sense, the dialogue systems in DA2 and Inquisition are pretty frustrating from a roleplaying perspective.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 5, 2018 14:49:11 GMT
It's just in comparison to others. The Inquisitor is always going to appear more reserved than, say, Dorian and Sera, who are more expressive. Their tone shifts a lot more than the Inquisitor's. Likewise purple Hawke goes tit-for-tat with Varric and Isabela because all three of those characters were designed to be snarky and exuberant. As a member of a people far less flamboyant and dramatic than Americans generally are, the Inquisitor certainly doesn't feel muted to me, while characters like Sera and Dorian seem frankly cartoonish. What I miss, however, is the ability for my character to express complicated opinions. It's hard to take Hawke/The Inquisitor very seriously as a leader when they basically never utter more than one sentence at a time, and only express opinions or thoughts that are either very vague and broad or pretty inconsistent. In my experience, the ability to understand and concisely and accurately respond to the reality of a situation is the most important one for any leader or administrator. The dialogue wheel takes that completely away in favor of hit-and-miss voice-acting. In that sense, the dialogue systems in DA2 and Inquisition are pretty frustrating from a roleplaying perspective. Hawke's cartoonish, and this probably intentional: it's Varric's story. As he started it – was more cartoonish, Cassandra stopped him, so, he probably more or less told the reality – but I don't think, he changed his style. And probably it's just me, but I think sometimes he twisted the story, to protect his friends, himself and tried to impress Cassandra to distract her – an interrogation is a very hostile situation. We know, he lied for example about that he doesn't know, where is Hawke. So: we can't take Hawke's story and personality literally – but we can imagine the wo/man behind the story. In fact, Hawke's the most living hero according to me. We can avoid the flamboyant/psychopath extremisms with mixing the answers. Not mentioned: Hawke's not a leader (at least not in the classical, nor in the political interpretation – for example not necessarily responsible or caring or explains him/herself, just do what s/he wants to do), Hawke's an outlaw. Hawke has some charisma (even if totally antisocial) and some abilities (courage and fighting skills) that make him/her the wo/man who capable to act. Blame his/her followers – s/he never asked for it (even if enjoys the position). (The Inquisitor's boring – compared with Hawke and the Warden to me. But s/he's an accidental chosen one – the blessed hand of the Inquisition. No matter s/he can speak or not. The advisors can speak and/or have conceptions, and they are the real leaders of the Inquisition [Leliana and Cassandra].) But ofc, it's just me (I'm European).
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Post by Iddy on Aug 12, 2018 18:59:56 GMT
It's just in comparison to others. The Inquisitor is always going to appear more reserved than, say, Dorian and Sera, who are more expressive. Their tone shifts a lot more than the Inquisitor's. Likewise purple Hawke goes tit-for-tat with Varric and Isabela because all three of those characters were designed to be snarky and exuberant. As a member of a people far less flamboyant and dramatic than Americans generally are, the Inquisitor certainly doesn't feel muted to me, while characters like Sera and Dorian seem frankly cartoonish. What I miss, however, is the ability for my character to express complicated opinions. It's hard to take Hawke/The Inquisitor very seriously as a leader when they basically never utter more than one sentence at a time, and only express opinions or thoughts that are either very vague and broad or pretty inconsistent. In my experience, the ability to understand and concisely and accurately respond to the reality of a situation is the most important one for any leader or administrator. The dialogue wheel takes that completely away in favor of hit-and-miss voice-acting. In that sense, the dialogue systems in DA2 and Inquisition are pretty frustrating from a roleplaying perspective. Hawke does have a nice back and forth with Fenris in the gallows, about the mages issue. But that was a rare gem.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by boxofscreaming on Aug 13, 2018 21:07:22 GMT
All dialogue systems limit roleplay. Indeed, computer games limit it by their very nature as the developers can only include so much content.
That said, Hawke's personality system at least makes me feel I can really influence what this person is like and, I would say, makes Hawke come across like a proper character rather than just a player avatar.
I know some people find Hawke "too much" in one way or another, but that's Dragon Age 2, in my view - it is just a more stylised, more flamboyant and over-the-top sort of game than the others and I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Post by obbie1984 on Aug 16, 2018 22:04:32 GMT
In some ways yes. I am currently playing through as default female Hawke who is humorous. But when the situation warrants, I choose diplomatic lines for her and angry lines similarly. However, some dialogue choices are out of your hand and Hawke will default to whatever personality you choose the most. For instance, the murder of Ninette is one such quest. When I approached Emeric, she started off with a very unnecessary joke considering the situation. I didn't like the joke and I had no control over it. I'd have preferred it to be diplomatic.
Other than that, I have no real issues with Hawke's dialogue and personality. I really like the way the game handles Hawke.
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