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Post by cmdrshep2183 on Jul 13, 2018 7:55:57 GMT
I remember back at E3 2006 seeing PeeBee having what appeared to have a spear pointed at her and being excited to discover alien civilizations!
I was hoping that we could have encountered primitive civilizations.
Do you think they over relied on themes used in the OT like ancient vanished aliens such as the Jardaan and Protheans? I remember playing the first Mass Effect and I wondered what a Prothean actually looked like. The first Mass Effect inspired a sense of wonder. In Andromeda I did not care about the Jardaan or Kett.
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Post by sil on Jul 13, 2018 7:59:47 GMT
I had forgotten that video, its interesting to see a few places look different and a few new ones.
Angara and Kett were quite different in the concept art, both had elements of very primitive cultures alongside advanced qualities. It was quite striking and the art was fantastic. Among the weapons in the art was a spear.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jul 13, 2018 8:04:46 GMT
For me it inspired a sense of wonder, more so in the 2nd PT.
They were supposedly planning to have enviroment effects like duststorm and such, also readable from the datamining of the files and missions, which were unreleased into the main game. Also the smaller ME1 UNC like areas to deploy Nomad were to be included but were culled from the final builds..
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Post by Pounce de León on Jul 13, 2018 9:15:59 GMT
For me it inspired a sense of wonder, more so in the 2nd PT. They were supposedly planning to have enviroment effects like duststorm and such, also readable from the datamining of the files and missions, which were unreleased into the main game. Also the smaller ME1 UNC like areas to deploy Nomad were to be included but were culled from the final builds.. Well, the Marsian duststorm in ME3 was amazing. Hinterland did well doing the howling storms in The Long Dark - I can see that might have been quite the view.
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Post by Bacus on Jul 13, 2018 15:54:03 GMT
I think that part's of mass effect charm IS the sense of wonder it provides.
There were a few moments which shone with MEA but not as many as in the OT.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 13, 2018 19:38:04 GMT
I remember back at E3 2006 seeing PeeBee having what appeared to have a spear pointed at her and being excited to discover alien civilizations! I was hoping that we could have encountered primitive civilizations. Do you think they over relied on themes used in the OT like ancient vanished aliens such as the Jardaan and Protheans? I remember playing the first Mass Effect and I wondered what a Prothean actually looked like. The first Mass Effect inspired a sense of wonder. In Andromeda I did not care about the Jardaan or Kett. Ancient vanished civilizations isn't a bad idea to go with. The problem is I didn't feel like I was exploring so much as retreading the same ground everyone else has already visited. These new worlds to explore? Already occupied. New race to make first contact with? Already been met by people who showed up before Ryder. Secrets of the precursor race to unlock? Yeah, the AI in your head will do all the heavy lifting. It's hard to feel like an explorer when your character seems to spend most of the game playing catch-up.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2018 23:58:21 GMT
The game itself did inspire a sense of wonder in me that easily equaled ME1. What killed it was the overkill fan reaction online with ridiculous memes, etc. Since I started playing a couple of months after release, I went into it feeling like it was a game I should not like because no one else seemed to like it. Fortunately, I'm not a sheep who just follows the crowd and it was quite evident early on to me that the game was not nearly as bad as the internet was making it out to be. Once I got a taste of real combat (i.e. after finishing all the tutorial), it didn't take me long to realize that I was genuinely having great fun playing the game regardless of anything any of the naysayers online were going on about. People will never experience a sense of wonder if they don't want to let themselves experience it. It's not a case of expectations being set too high, but of expectations being dashed by others continually going on about how bad something is when it really isn't So many were just set on not liking the game even long before it released that they killed any possibility to enjoy the game long before they even started to play it... for themselves first and then for others. It's a "mass opinion effect." Their loss... my gain for just not listening to them.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 14, 2018 13:14:57 GMT
The game itself did inspire a sense of wonder in me that easily equaled ME1. What killed it was the overkill fan reaction online with ridiculous memes, etc. Since I started playing a couple of months after release, I went into it feeling like it was a game I should not like because no one else seemed to like it. Fortunately, I'm not a sheep who just follows the crowd and it was quite evident early on to me that the game was not nearly as bad as the internet was making it out to be. Once I got a taste of real combat (i.e. after finishing all the tutorial), it didn't take me long to realize that I was genuinely having great fun playing the game regardless of anything any of the naysayers online were going on about. People will never experience a sense of wonder if they don't want to let themselves experience it. It's not a case of expectations being set too high, but of expectations being dashed by others continually going on about how bad something is when it really isn't So many were just set on not liking the game even long before it released that they killed any possibility to enjoy the game long before they even started to play it... for themselves first and then for others. It's a "mass opinion effect." Their loss... my gain for just not listening to them. I've held unpopular opinions since I thought ME2 was an overrated game and DAO was the greatest of the Dragon Age games. So I'm not one to simply go with the crowd. I was not impressed with the combat or the story. This is not someone telling me it's bad. This is me having actually played the game and going "this is a huge step backwards"
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Post by Cyberstrike on Jul 14, 2018 15:38:04 GMT
The game itself did inspire a sense of wonder in me that easily equaled ME1. What killed it was the overkill fan reaction online with ridiculous memes, etc. Since I started playing a couple of months after release, I went into it feeling like it was a game I should not like because no one else seemed to like it. Fortunately, I'm not a sheep who just follows the crowd and it was quite evident early on to me that the game was not nearly as bad as the internet was making it out to be. Once I got a taste of real combat (i.e. after finishing all the tutorial), it didn't take me long to realize that I was genuinely having great fun playing the game regardless of anything any of the naysayers online were going on about. People will never experience a sense of wonder if they don't want to let themselves experience it. It's not a case of expectations being set too high, but of expectations being dashed by others continually going on about how bad something is when it really isn't So many were just set on not liking the game even long before it released that they killed any possibility to enjoy the game long before they even started to play it... for themselves first and then for others. It's a "mass opinion effect." Their loss... my gain for just not listening to them. The worst thing about any fandom is the ultra hardcore snowflake fans, who treat whatever their supposed to be fans of (doesn't matter what media or property it is) like a fucking religion, and if it is just like they want it too be they will whine, moan, bitch, complain, harass, threaten, and so on to make their point (regardless if it has merit or not) and ultimately they will hate said media/property and will do everything in their power to kill what they claim to love because it's no longer for them or has a new direction, lead character, canon, or changes the lore that isn't just for the ultra hardcore snowflake fans and is allow new fans to enter and enjoy what they used to love and on top of that then they do everything in their power to ruin the fun for others who don't share their opinions or views. The entitlement and gate keeping is off the fucking charts when dealing with these people.
That is this very forum in a nutshell and I'm not just talking about BioWare games but pop culture in general.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 0:39:24 GMT
The game itself did inspire a sense of wonder in me that easily equaled ME1. What killed it was the overkill fan reaction online with ridiculous memes, etc. Since I started playing a couple of months after release, I went into it feeling like it was a game I should not like because no one else seemed to like it. Fortunately, I'm not a sheep who just follows the crowd and it was quite evident early on to me that the game was not nearly as bad as the internet was making it out to be. Once I got a taste of real combat (i.e. after finishing all the tutorial), it didn't take me long to realize that I was genuinely having great fun playing the game regardless of anything any of the naysayers online were going on about. People will never experience a sense of wonder if they don't want to let themselves experience it. It's not a case of expectations being set too high, but of expectations being dashed by others continually going on about how bad something is when it really isn't So many were just set on not liking the game even long before it released that they killed any possibility to enjoy the game long before they even started to play it... for themselves first and then for others. It's a "mass opinion effect." Their loss... my gain for just not listening to them. I've held unpopular opinions since I thought ME2 was an overrated game and DAO was the greatest of the Dragon Age games. So I'm not one to simply go with the crowd. I was not impressed with the combat or the story. This is not someone telling me it's bad. This is me having actually played the game and going "this is a huge step backwards" So we disagree... big deal. There are games that you've indicated as having impressed you that don't impress me at all. We have different tastes. I really did not have any more sense of exploration awe with ME1 than I did with ME:A. In ME1, Shepard never actually went to a single planet that did not already have some sort of merc base or mining operation or military outpost on it somewhere, so why did you not feel like Shepard was also "playing catchup" instead of exploring?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 15, 2018 1:07:58 GMT
The game itself did inspire a sense of wonder in me that easily equaled ME1. What killed it was the overkill fan reaction online with ridiculous memes, etc. Since I started playing a couple of months after release, I went into it feeling like it was a game I should not like because no one else seemed to like it. Fortunately, I'm not a sheep who just follows the crowd and it was quite evident early on to me that the game was not nearly as bad as the internet was making it out to be. Once I got a taste of real combat (i.e. after finishing all the tutorial), it didn't take me long to realize that I was genuinely having great fun playing the game regardless of anything any of the naysayers online were going on about. People will never experience a sense of wonder if they don't want to let themselves experience it. It's not a case of expectations being set too high, but of expectations being dashed by others continually going on about how bad something is when it really isn't So many were just set on not liking the game even long before it released that they killed any possibility to enjoy the game long before they even started to play it... for themselves first and then for others. It's a "mass opinion effect." Their loss... my gain for just not listening to them. The worst thing about any fandom is the ultra hardcore snowflake fans, who treat whatever their supposed to be fans of (doesn't matter what media or property it is) like a fucking religion, and if it is just like they want it too be they will whine, moan, bitch, complain, harass, threaten, and so on to make their point (regardless if it has merit or not) and ultimately they will hate said media/property and will do everything in their power to kill what they claim to love because it's no longer for them or has a new direction, lead character, canon, or changes the lore that isn't just for the ultra hardcore snowflake fans and is allow new fans to enter and enjoy what they used to love and on top of that then they do everything in their power to ruin the fun for others who don't share their opinions or views. The entitlement and gate keeping is off the fucking charts when dealing with these people.
That is this very forum in a nutshell and I'm not just talking about BioWare games but pop culture in general.
Yes, people who see a franchise moving in directions they personally don't want to see them go can tend to resent people who do like those changes they don't. Basically, they view those people as "encouraging" the franchise to move in those new directions.
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Post by goishen on Jul 15, 2018 2:44:37 GMT
After dealing with some internal issues amongst the races (the genophage, the vorcha, dealing with the gangs, etc), we would meet up with alien technologies that would make ours seem quaint on top of having to deal with us having to do research on items (because of how high tech they are). Add to this having to find and deploy research stations across several different planets for each of the known races.
But see, now, you kind'a can't have that because Andromeda shot it all right square in the ass. At least the "I'mma go settle over here because my dextro food can't grow there."
*shrug* What I'm trying to say is that they made each of the races too homogenized for my liking and they fucked up all chances that they had of encountering anything meaningful (like the council, or a czar, or a king). We've already expanded across what? Seven different worlds. If there was anybody in Andromeda, they would've picked up on that, or they are really really slow.
At least in my head, they would have had something similar to a council except with each of the races, saying, "No, we can't land here, because they have this... But we can land over here...." It's just meh.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 15, 2018 3:16:51 GMT
I've held unpopular opinions since I thought ME2 was an overrated game and DAO was the greatest of the Dragon Age games. So I'm not one to simply go with the crowd. I was not impressed with the combat or the story. This is not someone telling me it's bad. This is me having actually played the game and going "this is a huge step backwards" So we disagree... big deal. There are games that you've indicated as having impressed you that don't impress me at all. We have different tastes. I really did not have any more sense of exploration awe with ME1 than I did with ME:A. In ME1, Shepard never actually went to a single planet that did not already have some sort of merc base or mining operation or military outpost on it somewhere, so why did you not feel like Shepard was also "playing catchup" instead of exploring? Just pointing out that I don't let prevailing winds determine whether I like a game or not. And yes, The draw with Shepard was the beautiful landscapes. Shepard wasn't "exploring", save what he/she was seeing for the first time personally. Shepard WAS playing catchup, that was the entire plot behind ME1! But Ryder was a Pathfinder, and was supposed to be "pathfindng" as Addison put it. Exploring, discovering, Landing on worlds never explored by anyone from the Milky Way, or anyone at all, for that matter!
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 15, 2018 4:59:25 GMT
I'm not sure I've ever experienced "wonder" in my entire life, so it would be unfair of me to criticise ME on that front, when every other game also fails in my eyes.
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Post by colfoley on Jul 15, 2018 6:27:17 GMT
So we disagree... big deal. There are games that you've indicated as having impressed you that don't impress me at all. We have different tastes. I really did not have any more sense of exploration awe with ME1 than I did with ME:A. In ME1, Shepard never actually went to a single planet that did not already have some sort of merc base or mining operation or military outpost on it somewhere, so why did you not feel like Shepard was also "playing catchup" instead of exploring? Just pointing out that I don't let prevailing winds determine whether I like a game or not. And yes, The draw with Shepard was the beautiful landscapes. Shepard wasn't "exploring", save what he/she was seeing for the first time personally. Shepard WAS playing catchup, that was the entire plot behind ME1! But Ryder was a Pathfinder, and was supposed to be "pathfindng" as Addison put it. Exploring, discovering, Landing on worlds never explored by anyone from the Milky Way, or anyone at all, for that matter! ... and that's what Ryder did.
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Post by Iakus on Jul 15, 2018 17:46:31 GMT
Just pointing out that I don't let prevailing winds determine whether I like a game or not. And yes, The draw with Shepard was the beautiful landscapes. Shepard wasn't "exploring", save what he/she was seeing for the first time personally. Shepard WAS playing catchup, that was the entire plot behind ME1! But Ryder was a Pathfinder, and was supposed to be "pathfindng" as Addison put it. Exploring, discovering, Landing on worlds never explored by anyone from the Milky Way, or anyone at all, for that matter! ... and that's what Ryder did. By finding Discount Omega and not-Tuchanka?
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Jul 15, 2018 18:13:13 GMT
I'm not sure I've ever experienced "wonder" in my entire life, so it would be unfair of me to criticise ME on that front, when every other game also fails in my eyes. I'm sorry. Seriously. Never seen the Grand Canyon? Never watched Old Faithful burst on time? Never seen an enormous Caribou that could easily kill you in seconds, 10 feet away from you, fart and keep moving? Never seen your niece and somehow saw your Grandma? Wonder is everywhere man. Eat a mushroom and stare at some trees for a day. Your status on this subject will change mightily. ... I felt wonder the first time I realized I was Revan. Blew my mind. I felt wonder landing on my first planet in ME1, landing in a Mako on a strange landscape, definitely not on Earth. ... No book you ever read gave you pause? ... You did say in your life. If it's just video game inspired wonder you haven't had, I can accept that. Otherwise, it seems like something said in haste that was disingenuous.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 2:51:47 GMT
... and that's what Ryder did. By finding Discount Omega and not-Tuchanka? No... by being the first MW 'person" to land on Aya and Khi-Tasira and by finding Meridian itself when not even the Kett knew where it was located. He/she was also pathfinding in a metaphorical sense... finding a way (i.e. path) for getting along with the Angara.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 16, 2018 3:09:59 GMT
I'm not sure I've ever experienced "wonder" in my entire life, so it would be unfair of me to criticise ME on that front, when every other game also fails in my eyes. I'm sorry. Seriously. Never seen the Grand Canyon? Never watched Old Faithful burst on time? Never seen an enormous Caribou that could easily kill you in seconds, 10 feet away from you, fart and keep moving? Never seen your niece and somehow saw your Grandma? Wonder is everywhere man. Eat a mushroom and stare at some trees for a day. Your status on this subject will change mightily. ... I felt wonder the first time I realized I was Revan. Blew my mind. I felt wonder landing on my first planet in ME1, landing in a Mako on a strange landscape, definitely not on Earth. ... No book you ever read gave you pause? ... You did say in your life. If it's just video game inspired wonder you haven't had, I can accept that. Otherwise, it seems like something said in haste that was disingenuous. It could be that I simply don't remember. It could be that depression is affecting my perception of past events. It could be that a disorder I've been diagnosed with means I experience emotions differently than other people. If anything comes to me, I'll let you know.
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Post by ahglock on Jul 16, 2018 3:20:25 GMT
... and that's what Ryder did. By finding Discount Omega and not-Tuchanka?
Even that would have worked if it felt like he was finding them instead of going to them again after the real explorers found them. He found like 3 places and the vaults, every other location was a retread. The beat you over the head with it on EoS as a narrator would pop in and describe why they named a zone the way they did.
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Post by alanc9 on Jul 16, 2018 6:30:38 GMT
How could it have felt like Ryder was finding them? Ryder can't very well be the first MW person to set foot in a krogan colony, or an exile-controlled former angaran settlement. Unless the "them" there just refers to different places which would have been designed instead of designing Kadara and New Tuchanka.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 6:37:58 GMT
By finding Discount Omega and not-Tuchanka?
Even that would have worked if it felt like he was finding them instead of going to them again after the real explorers found them. He found like 3 places and the vaults, every other location was a retread. The beat you over the head with it on EoS as a narrator would pop in and describe why they named a zone the way they did.
That's still 3 more than Shepard found. What I don't get here is why the definition of "exploration" changes between ME1 and ME:A. ME1 is touted as providing a sense of exploration when nothing new is being discovered by Shepard; and ME:A is derided for not providing a sense of exploration when Ryder clearly is among the very first Milky Way "persons" to set foot on Habitat 7, Khi-Tasira and Meridian and is absolutely the first MW person to set foot on Aya (since we are told as much by Governor Paran Shie).
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2018 7:02:34 GMT
So we disagree... big deal. There are games that you've indicated as having impressed you that don't impress me at all. We have different tastes. I really did not have any more sense of exploration awe with ME1 than I did with ME:A. In ME1, Shepard never actually went to a single planet that did not already have some sort of merc base or mining operation or military outpost on it somewhere, so why did you not feel like Shepard was also "playing catchup" instead of exploring? Just pointing out that I don't let prevailing winds determine whether I like a game or not. And yes, The draw with Shepard was the beautiful landscapes. Shepard wasn't "exploring", save what he/she was seeing for the first time personally. Shepard WAS playing catchup, that was the entire plot behind ME1! But Ryder was a Pathfinder, and was supposed to be "pathfindng" as Addison put it. Exploring, discovering, Landing on worlds never explored by anyone from the Milky Way, or anyone at all, for that matter! The landscapes in ME:A are far more beautiful than anything made in ME1... which was easily surpassed by both ME2 and ME3. There is, for the most part, no foliage in ME1 (save a little bit on Eden Prime), just different colored rocks. Edolus is brown rock, Presrop is gray rock, Ontarom in green painted rock supposedly representing something of a grass-like covering. None of them can touch the detail and alien-ness of Havarl. There were plenty of white planets in ME1 (corrected typo) as well... and none of them had the detail of Voeld and none of them gave the sensation of driving the mako on ice like Voeld did with the Nomad. The planets in the GM were rendered in far more detail and variety than those in ME1 as well and the space in the universe had some depth... rather than just flying a little mock ship across a 2D picture of a galaxy... but what did the naysayers of the game want to do right off the bat... skip all those wonderful animations like they feared experiencing any sense of wonder. Myself, I never tire of the travelling animations... they are just so much better than ME1.
As for the rest - you're enforcing a singular, narrow definition of "finding a path" onto the story and then criticizing it for not meeting that narrowed definition. As I said, Ryder clearly did explore and discover many things that no one else in the Initiative had yet discovered... even on the planets where the exiles had settled. For example, Ryder unearthed the first Architect on EOS... no one else knew they were there before he/she woke it up.
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An unknown possibly hostile flotilla detected at eight hundred astronomical units from the sun!
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legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Jul 16, 2018 7:51:24 GMT
Just pointing out that I don't let prevailing winds determine whether I like a game or not. And yes, The draw with Shepard was the beautiful landscapes. Shepard wasn't "exploring", save what he/she was seeing for the first time personally. Shepard WAS playing catchup, that was the entire plot behind ME1! But Ryder was a Pathfinder, and was supposed to be "pathfindng" as Addison put it. Exploring, discovering, Landing on worlds never explored by anyone from the Milky Way, or anyone at all, for that matter! The landscapes in ME:A are far more beautiful than anything made in ME1... which was easily surpassed by both ME2 and ME3. There is, for the most part, no foliage in ME1 (save a little bit on Eden Prime), just different colored rocks. Edolus is brown rock, Presrop is gray rock, Ontarom in green painted rock supposedly representing something of a grass-like covering. None of them can touch the detail and alien-ness of Havarl. There were plenty of white planets in MEA as well... and none of them had the detail of Voeld and none of them gave the sensation of driving the mako on ice like Voeld did with the Nomad. The planets in the GM were rendered in far more detail and variety than those in ME1 as well and the space in the universe had some depth... rather than just flying a little mock ship across a 2D picture of a galaxy... but what did the naysayers of the game want to do right off the bat... skip all those wonderful animations like they feared experiencing any sense of wonder. Myself, I never tire of the travelling animations... they are just so much better than ME1.
As for the rest - you're enforcing a singular, narrow definition of "finding a path" onto the story and then criticizing it for not meeting that narrowed definition. As I said, Ryder clearly did explore and discover many things that no one else in the Initiative had yet discovered... even on the planets where the exiles had settled. For example, Ryder unearthed the first Architect on EOS... no one else knew they were there before he/she woke it up.
And I even liked most of the ME1 landscapes better than what 2 and 3 had to offer... but MEA is on another level completely of course. When the game ends, squad/Ryder says along the lines "Now the real exploration may start" - and thats what I wait to do Incentive was to get whole AI project stabilized, and do a bit of exploring but ..
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Iakus
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by Iakus on Jul 18, 2018 4:25:45 GMT
Just pointing out that I don't let prevailing winds determine whether I like a game or not. And yes, The draw with Shepard was the beautiful landscapes. Shepard wasn't "exploring", save what he/she was seeing for the first time personally. Shepard WAS playing catchup, that was the entire plot behind ME1! But Ryder was a Pathfinder, and was supposed to be "pathfindng" as Addison put it. Exploring, discovering, Landing on worlds never explored by anyone from the Milky Way, or anyone at all, for that matter! The landscapes in ME:A are far more beautiful than anything made in ME1... which was easily surpassed by both ME2 and ME3. There is, for the most part, no foliage in ME1 (save a little bit on Eden Prime), just different colored rocks. Edolus is brown rock, Presrop is gray rock, Ontarom in green painted rock supposedly representing something of a grass-like covering. None of them can touch the detail and alien-ness of Havarl. There were plenty of white planets in ME1 (corrected typo) as well... and none of them had the detail of Voeld and none of them gave the sensation of driving the mako on ice like Voeld did with the Nomad. The planets in the GM were rendered in far more detail and variety than those in ME1 as well and the space in the universe had some depth... rather than just flying a little mock ship across a 2D picture of a galaxy... but what did the naysayers of the game want to do right off the bat... skip all those wonderful animations like they feared experiencing any sense of wonder. Myself, I never tire of the travelling animations... they are just so much better than ME1.
As for the rest - you're enforcing a singular, narrow definition of "finding a path" onto the story and then criticizing it for not meeting that narrowed definition. As I said, Ryder clearly did explore and discover many things that no one else in the Initiative had yet discovered... even on the planets where the exiles had settled. For example, Ryder unearthed the first Architect on EOS... no one else knew they were there before he/she woke it up.
Umm...what? My Ryder bumped into an already active Architect on Eos by following the radio signal of a couple of stoners... All the great animation in the world won't help a boring story. And hours of random planet wandering won't help uninspired combat.
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