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Not a jockey. Has a sofa.
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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 24, 2018 12:13:07 GMT
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Post by pessimistpanda on Jul 24, 2018 14:45:54 GMT
It explains the mechanic, and why she likes it, but I don't see where the part about morality kicks in.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,971 Likes: 12,405
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 6, 2018 20:43:49 GMT
It explains the mechanic, and why she likes it, but I don't see where the part about morality kicks in. well, let's approach it a different way then ^^ taking the article as a starting point...how are your morals in games? I once did a test on my moral standards (Dungeons and Dragons style) and find that in games where I have choices (Dragon Age, Mass Effect etc.)
I tend to go with Lawful Good options, or generally, I (and my characters) tend to shift toward Lawful Good regardless of what morality I start with
in Neverwinter Nights 2 I started out as True Neutral and tried to be Chaotic Good, but I soon felt myself shift toward the Lawful side I guess that says something about me as a person, but eh *shrugs* that's just my two cents
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 7, 2018 2:33:34 GMT
It explains the mechanic, and why she likes it, but I don't see where the part about morality kicks in. well, let's approach it a different way then ^^ taking the article as a starting point...how are your morals in games? I once did a test on my moral standards (Dungeons and Dragons style) and find that in games where I have choices (Dragon Age, Mass Effect etc.)
I tend to go with Lawful Good options, or generally, I (and my characters) tend to shift toward Lawful Good regardless of what morality I start with
in Neverwinter Nights 2 I started out as True Neutral and tried to be Chaotic Good, but I soon felt myself shift toward the Lawful side I guess that says something about me as a person, but eh *shrugs* that's just my two cents Well, I don't know how to answer that, since I'm not remotely familiar with how moral standards work in Dungeons and Dragons. But generally, in games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, I make the choices I feel are most morally right, irrespective of whatever the "law" may be, either in-game or IRL.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,971 Likes: 12,405
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LadyofNemesis
4,971
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 7, 2018 10:37:16 GMT
well, let's approach it a different way then ^^ taking the article as a starting point...how are your morals in games? I once did a test on my moral standards (Dungeons and Dragons style) and find that in games where I have choices (Dragon Age, Mass Effect etc.)
I tend to go with Lawful Good options, or generally, I (and my characters) tend to shift toward Lawful Good regardless of what morality I start with
in Neverwinter Nights 2 I started out as True Neutral and tried to be Chaotic Good, but I soon felt myself shift toward the Lawful side I guess that says something about me as a person, but eh *shrugs* that's just my two cents Well, I don't know how to answer that, since I'm not remotely familiar with how moral standards work in Dungeons and Dragons. But generally, in games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, I make the choices I feel are most morally right, irrespective of whatever the "law" may be, either in-game or IRL. My characters tend to be on the good side of the spectrum, I can't do any morally gray or evil choices at all I still need to align myself with the Templars in any of the 3 games, I can't bring myself to kill the Dalish in Origins...and I can't even bring myself to poison the Urn of Sacred ashes, despite the fact that last one is just an item, it doesn't have actual feelings I once did abandon Amaranthine in order to safe Vigil's Keep, and I have kept the Anvil of the Void on a few occasions, but yeah..those are my more gray choices neither Dragon Age or Mass Effect really allows you to be really evil, I mean you can make evil (or morally gray) choices, but you can't say...side with the Archdemon or Corypheus
I think the last game that I ever played that presented the choice to side with the villain was Neverwinter Nights 2 in that game you can side with the villain in the end, and depending on your morality only one of your companions stays with you because he shares that morality (Chaotic Evil) and you more or less go on a glorious blood shed and kill everyone, but that's all retconned in the expansion...so there's that only game series where I can ever be 'evil' is in Elder Scrolls (Dark Brotherhood) and of course there's Overlord, where you're actually rewarded for being evil
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 7, 2018 12:21:02 GMT
Well, I don't know how to answer that, since I'm not remotely familiar with how moral standards work in Dungeons and Dragons. But generally, in games like Dragon Age and Mass Effect, I make the choices I feel are most morally right, irrespective of whatever the "law" may be, either in-game or IRL. My characters tend to be on the good side of the spectrum, I can't do any morally gray or evil choices at all I still need to align myself with the Templars in any of the 3 games, I can't bring myself to kill the Dalish in Origins...and I can't even bring myself to poison the Urn of Sacred ashes, despite the fact that last one is just an item, it doesn't have actual feelings I once did abandon Amaranthine in order to safe Vigil's Keep, and I have kept the Anvil of the Void on a few occasions, but yeah..those are my more gray choices neither Dragon Age or Mass Effect really allows you to be really evil, I mean you can make evil (or morally gray) choices, but you can't say...side with the Archdemon or Corypheus
I think the last game that I ever played that presented the choice to side with the villain was Neverwinter Nights 2 in that game you can side with the villain in the end, and depending on your morality only one of your companions stays with you because he shares that morality (Chaotic Evil) and you more or less go on a glorious blood shed and kill everyone, but that's all retconned in the expansion...so there's that only game series where I can ever be 'evil' is in Elder Scrolls (Dark Brotherhood) and of course there's Overlord, where you're actually rewarded for being evil Well, the link certainly helps me to understand what actions are "Good" and which ones are "Evil" according to the rules of D&D, but I already have my own perception of those values, just like everyone does. For instance, you say you need to align yourself with the Templars in all three games, because you can't do "grey" or "evil" choices. Personally, I consider siding with the Templars to be the evil choice, and I honestly can't comprehend the mindset of anyone who thinks otherwise. One of the few things that I like about Dragon Age over other RPGs is that the game does not have a "karma" bar, or make moral judgements about my actions, or try to dictate how I should feel about certain characters. The choices we make are never presented as "good" vs "evil". If anything, the developers and writers of Dragon Age bend over backwards to try and make even acts of straight-up genocide seem somehow acceptable, if you squint and tilt your head just so. That's why I don't understand why the article is even called "Morality in RPGs". It talks at length about the mechanics of the dialogue wheel, and how it contributes to creating a character's personality (things that a person who's played the games she mentions will already know, anyway), but doesn't talk about making moral choices at all. Although apparently that's in part 2.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,971 Likes: 12,405
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LadyofNemesis
4,971
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 7, 2018 13:21:41 GMT
My characters tend to be on the good side of the spectrum, I can't do any morally gray or evil choices at all I still need to align myself with the Templars in any of the 3 games, I can't bring myself to kill the Dalish in Origins...and I can't even bring myself to poison the Urn of Sacred ashes, despite the fact that last one is just an item, it doesn't have actual feelings I once did abandon Amaranthine in order to safe Vigil's Keep, and I have kept the Anvil of the Void on a few occasions, but yeah..those are my more gray choices neither Dragon Age or Mass Effect really allows you to be really evil, I mean you can make evil (or morally gray) choices, but you can't say...side with the Archdemon or Corypheus
I think the last game that I ever played that presented the choice to side with the villain was Neverwinter Nights 2 in that game you can side with the villain in the end, and depending on your morality only one of your companions stays with you because he shares that morality (Chaotic Evil) and you more or less go on a glorious blood shed and kill everyone, but that's all retconned in the expansion...so there's that only game series where I can ever be 'evil' is in Elder Scrolls (Dark Brotherhood) and of course there's Overlord, where you're actually rewarded for being evil Well, the link certainly helps me to understand what actions are "Good" and which ones are "Evil" according to the rules of D&D, but I already have my own perception of those values, just like everyone does. For instance, you say you need to align yourself with the Templars in all three games, because you can't do "grey" or "evil" choices. Personally, I consider siding with the Templars to be the evil choice, and I honestly can't comprehend the mindset of anyone who thinks otherwise. One of the few things that I like about Dragon Age over other RPGs is that the game does not have a "karma" bar, or make moral judgements about my actions, or try to dictate how I should feel about certain characters. The choices we make are never presented as "good" vs "evil". If anything, the developers and writers of Dragon Age bend over backwards to try and make even acts of straight-up genocide seem somehow acceptable, if you squint and tilt your head just so. That's why I don't understand why the article is even called "Morality in RPGs". It talks at length about the mechanics of the dialogue wheel, and how it contributes to creating a character's personality (things that a person who's played the games she mentions will already know, anyway), but doesn't talk about making moral choices at all. Although apparently that's in part 2. ah, I wrote that wrong...it's not like I want to side with the Templars, I just still need to do those achievements, but like I said I just can't bring myself to do it I mean, how can I justify killing young children for acts they did not commit? Even Connor is mostly blameless, it's like Jowan and Isolde say 'he was just trying to help his father' I always feel sorry for him when I meet him again in Inquisition, he sounds so lost and blames himself for everything that happened
Also in every game we only see a handful of good Templars, and the mages are portrayed as victims in most of the cases, those mages that do go 'blaargh! I'm an abomination!' are mostly already crazy to begin with... Orsino being an exception because he was pushed to the edge and saw no alternative and betrayed his own morals because of it
I also love the fact that the game doesn't have a karma bar, I mean in Mass Effect you did have one...and not always for the better
for example, you had to fill out either of the bars in order to unlock certain dialogue options, I mean come on, what's up with that?
as for moral choices...I know at least one clear moral option in DA 2 (at least imo), and that's deciding Anders' fate in Act 3 either you decide he has to die for the act he committed (blowing up the Chantry) or decide against it and say that he has to life with his actions and help you by fixing the mess that he created
besides, most (if not all) of my characters do things because they think it's the right thing to do, even if other people don't agree with them I often like to imagine what I would do in those situations (not that I'd survive a minute in those worlds ), and that's also doing the right thing...or at least what I perceive as the right thing to do
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,916 Likes: 7,480
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Clearance Level Ultra
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 7, 2018 14:44:49 GMT
While there is certainly a bit of myself in every character I create and play, they certainly don't all have the same alignment (though I usually ignore the entire alignment stuff, I just create personalities). I have enjoyed lawful good characters, chaotic good ones, and the most terrifying alignment of them all, lawful neutral.
Of course, I can't end this post without quoting the alignment section from the "real men, real roleplayers, loonies and munchkins" list:
Real men are lawful good. Real roleplayers don't use alignment. Loonies are amoral silly. Munchkins are whatever gives the most plusses.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,971 Likes: 12,405
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LadyofNemesis
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July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 7, 2018 15:07:48 GMT
While there is certainly a bit of myself in every character I create and play, they certainly don't all have the same alignment (though I usually ignore the entire alignment stuff, I just create personalities). I have enjoyed lawful good characters, chaotic good ones, and the most terrifying alignment of them all, lawful neutral. Of course, I can't end this post without quoting the alignment section from the "real men, real roleplayers, loonies and munchkins" list: Real men are lawful good. Real roleplayers don't use alignment. Loonies are amoral silly. Munchkins are whatever gives the most plusses. I never really understood the alignment spectrum much to be honest all I know is that Lawful Good characters are like...saints, Neutral is just that...neither of the extremes, and Chaotic Evil is like...'I wanna see the world burn and drink the blood of my enemies while doing that'
but...what's so terrifying about Lawful Neutral characters? (the only one I remember is Sand from NWN2 and he was alright)
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 15:20:19 GMT
While there is certainly a bit of myself in every character I create and play, they certainly don't all have the same alignment (though I usually ignore the entire alignment stuff, I just create personalities). I have enjoyed lawful good characters, chaotic good ones, and the most terrifying alignment of them all, lawful neutral. Of course, I can't end this post without quoting the alignment section from the "real men, real roleplayers, loonies and munchkins" list: Real men are lawful good. Real roleplayers don't use alignment. Loonies are amoral silly. Munchkins are whatever gives the most plusses. I never play as "lawful good". In the DA this seems an oxymoron. Hawke for example hardly can be lawful and good at the same time. Neutral good is the real knight here. My problem with the "law" that is created by wo/men – so it can be wrong (This unjust was created by men – Bethany at Gallows). The law always must be questioned in the name of the righteousness – without question, blindly nobody can't serve the good, only can serve the law. We saw even in the real life history: to serve the "law" many times just serves the tyranny, the discrimination and in a serious case of genocide and the slavery. In DA (especially in Kirkwall) the "lawful" can be paired with "neutral and evil".
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Posts: 2,916 Likes: 7,480
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Clearance Level Ultra
2,916
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ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 7, 2018 15:26:30 GMT
I never really understood the alignment spectrum much to be honest all I know is that Lawful Good characters are like...saints, Neutral is just that...neither of the extremes, and Chaotic Evil is like...'I wanna see the world burn and drink the blood of my enemies while doing that' but...what's so terrifying about Lawful Neutral characters? (the only one I remember is Sand from NWN2 and he was alright) It is a combination of how much a character sticks to the rules (lawful, neutral, chaotic) combined with their personal morality (good, neutral, evil), where good is commonly defined as being helpful to others without gaining a personal advantage, and evil as harmful to others without being forced. As an example how different alignments would deal with a criminal (very rough and made up on the spot): A lawful good character would gather evidence, have them arrested and put them to trial. If the criminal remained unpunished due to a crafty lawyer or witnesses gone missing, the lawful good character would simply begin the task anew. A neutral good character would also gather evidence, have the criminal arrested and put to trial, but if he got free afterwards, he just might ignore the rules and get even in some other way. A chaotic good character would steal the criminal's money, give it back to the victims and offer the culprit a good beating should the crimes not stop. I find lawful neutral so scary because that's the alignment that just obeys the rules, for better or worse. "I just followed orders."
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Posts: 2,916 Likes: 7,480
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 7, 2018 15:42:16 GMT
I never play as "lawful good". In the DA this seems an oxymoron. Hawke for example hardly can be lawful and good at the same time. Neutral good is the real knight here. My problem with the "law" that is created by wo/men – so it can be wrong (This unjust was created by men – Bethany at Gallows). The law always must be questioned in the name of the righteousness – without question, blindly nobody can't serve the good, only can serve the law. We saw even in the real life history: to serve the "law" many times just serves the tyranny, the discrimination and in a serious case of genocide and the slavery. In DA (especially in Kirkwall) the "lawful" can be paired with "neutral and evil". Of course laws are never perfect, being created by men. But righteousness is also a human concept, and thus just as imperfect. All we can do is try to find the best compromise. Lawful good characters are hard to play no matter the setting. A lawful good character would likely not feel obliged to follow a law he/she considers as evil or oppressive, and instead stick to a good personal moral code. A lawful good character in Kirkwall would probably enter politics and attempt to effect good changes from within the system. Lawful evil is something along the lines of believing in the rule of the strong over the weak. Just following the law, whether said law has good or evil intentions, is actually more lawful neutral... I think. But I'm no expert in D&D morality. That system is in my opinion a mere crutch to help players creating their character's personality.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 15:48:02 GMT
I never really understood the alignment spectrum much to be honest all I know is that Lawful Good characters are like...saints, Neutral is just that...neither of the extremes, and Chaotic Evil is like...'I wanna see the world burn and drink the blood of my enemies while doing that' but...what's so terrifying about Lawful Neutral characters? (the only one I remember is Sand from NWN2 and he was alright) It is a combination of how much a character sticks to the rules (lawful, neutral, chaotic) combined with their personal morality (good, neutral, evil), where good is commonly defined as being helpful to others without gaining a personal advantage, and evil as harmful to others without being forced. As an example how different alignments would deal with a criminal (very rough and made up on the spot): A lawful good character would gather evidence, have them arrested and put them to trial. If the criminal remained unpunished due to a crafty lawyer or witnesses gone missing, the lawful good character would simply begin the task anew. A neutral good character would also gather evidence, have the criminal arrested and put to trial, but if he got free afterwards, he just might ignore the rules and get even in some other way. A chaotic good character would steal the criminal's money, give it back to the victims and offer the culprit a good beating should the crimes not stop. I find lawful neutral so scary because that's the alignment that just obeys the rules, for better or worse. "I just followed orders." Good definitions, especially the "lawful neutral". And my problem with the "lawful good", it just that people can die, despite his/her benevolence, because of his/her lawfulness, if s/he insists to the law – no matter she tries to protect people. There are circumstances when it's so hard/impossible with the tools of the law because especially the law is wrong. Of course there a possibility to change this law – but this not happens always peacefully – while have to try it.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 16:08:31 GMT
I never play as "lawful good". In the DA this seems an oxymoron. Hawke for example hardly can be lawful and good at the same time. Neutral good is the real knight here. My problem with the "law" that is created by wo/men – so it can be wrong (This unjust was created by men – Bethany at Gallows). The law always must be questioned in the name of the righteousness – without question, blindly nobody can't serve the good, only can serve the law. We saw even in the real life history: to serve the "law" many times just serves the tyranny, the discrimination and in a serious case of genocide and the slavery. In DA (especially in Kirkwall) the "lawful" can be paired with "neutral and evil". Of course laws are never perfect, being created by men. But righteousness is also a human concept, and thus just as imperfect. All we can do is try to find the best compromise. Lawful good characters are hard to play no matter the setting. A lawful good character would likely not feel obliged to follow a law he/she considers as evil or oppressive, and instead stick to a good personal moral code. A lawful good character in Kirkwall would probably enter politics and attempt to effect good changes from within the system. Lawful evil is something along the lines of believing in the rule of the strong over the weak. Just following the law, whether said law has good or evil intentions, is actually more lawful neutral... I think. But I'm no expert in D&D morality. That system is in my opinion a mere crutch to help players creating their character's personality. I believe the righteousness – while you're right about, that its a hard term, and easily can be just self-righteousness (chaotic good, chaotic neutral). To plays as lawful good, is really hard. How would you play as a "lawful good" in Tevinter? What would this character do, if sees, an escaped slave, who kill his/her master and the hunters? This is why I can't understand the "lawful good" term. But perhaps, the lawful good character who insist the "universal law" – when the "local laws" are evil. But this is the neutral good. Hawke entered the politics, but prevented to use his/her influence (to become a Viscount) and to change the law – and that unjust law was not especially Kirkwall's law.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 4,971 Likes: 12,405
inherit
10314
0
Nov 30, 2024 22:18:01 GMT
12,405
LadyofNemesis
4,971
July 2018
ladyofnemesis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 7, 2018 16:29:43 GMT
I never really understood the alignment spectrum much to be honest all I know is that Lawful Good characters are like...saints, Neutral is just that...neither of the extremes, and Chaotic Evil is like...'I wanna see the world burn and drink the blood of my enemies while doing that' but...what's so terrifying about Lawful Neutral characters? (the only one I remember is Sand from NWN2 and he was alright) It is a combination of how much a character sticks to the rules (lawful, neutral, chaotic) combined with their personal morality (good, neutral, evil), where good is commonly defined as being helpful to others without gaining a personal advantage, and evil as harmful to others without being forced. As an example how different alignments would deal with a criminal (very rough and made up on the spot): A lawful good character would gather evidence, have them arrested and put them to trial. If the criminal remained unpunished due to a crafty lawyer or witnesses gone missing, the lawful good character would simply begin the task anew. A neutral good character would also gather evidence, have the criminal arrested and put to trial, but if he got free afterwards, he just might ignore the rules and get even in some other way. A chaotic good character would steal the criminal's money, give it back to the victims and offer the culprit a good beating should the crimes not stop. I find lawful neutral so scary because that's the alignment that just obeys the rules, for better or worse. "I just followed orders." ah I see, thank you for explaining ^^
I think the only reason my character in NWN2 ended up Lawful Good was because I sided with the guardsmen over the thieves, and by following that storyline I just naturally became lawful good
but as to what morality my characters actually are...hm...most are good for the sense of being good, they break laws if it is necessary but will always end up returning to said laws as a sort of guide line , but they will always attempt in helping people they care about I personally find it difficult to play chaotic characters, because it's more about 'me myself and I' then serving a greater purpose of helping others like I said, that probably says something about me as a person in general, for example in the Harry Potter universe I'd probably be sorted in Hufflepuff
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,916 Likes: 7,480
inherit
Agent 46
177
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Nov 30, 2024 22:29:33 GMT
7,480
Gileadan
Clearance Level Ultra
2,916
August 2016
gileadan
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
ALoneGretchin
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Post by Gileadan on Aug 7, 2018 17:08:57 GMT
I believe the righteousness – while you're right about, that its a hard term, and easily can be just self-righteousness (chaotic good, chaotic neutral). To plays as lawful good, is really hard. How would you play as a "lawful good" in Tevinter? What would this character do, if sees, an escaped slave, who kill his/her master and the hunters? This is why I can't understand the "lawful good" term. But perhaps, the lawful good character who insist the "universal law" – when the "local laws" are evil. But this is the neutral good. Hawke entered the politics, but prevented to use his/her influence (to become a Viscount) and to change the law – and that unjust law was not especially Kirkwall's law. Hoo boy, that's a tough one. After giving it some thought, this is what a lawful good character played by me would do (which isn't necessarily what I myself would do): In the extremely unlikely case (given that slavery exists) that the escaped slave has willingly indentured himself, i.e. is not a slave against his will, AND can expect a fair trial that would end with some mild punishment like a short jail term or the payment of a weregild, my character would hand the man over to the authorities, and then try to find out as much as possible about the circumstances of the deed to make sure justice is served, including punishment of any remaining slave owners for the bad treatment that led to the murder. But let's face it, that's not going to happen because societies that allow slavery are very unlikely to be kind and fair in all other aspects. So, the most likely case is that he'd hide the slave and help him escape the city if so desired. Then he'd join the Lucerni to try and make a better tomorrow for all of Tevinter, one small lawful step by step.
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 17:10:36 GMT
It is a combination of how much a character sticks to the rules (lawful, neutral, chaotic) combined with their personal morality (good, neutral, evil), where good is commonly defined as being helpful to others without gaining a personal advantage, and evil as harmful to others without being forced.
As an example how different alignments would deal with a criminal (very rough and made up on the spot):
A lawful good character would gather evidence, have them arrested and put them to trial. If the criminal remained unpunished due to a crafty lawyer or witnesses gone missing, the lawful good character would simply begin the task anew.
A neutral good character would also gather evidence, have the criminal arrested and put to trial, but if he got free afterwards, he just might ignore the rules and get even in some other way.
A chaotic good character would steal the criminal's money, give it back to the victims and offer the culprit a good beating should the crimes not stop.
I find lawful neutral so scary because that's the alignment that just obeys the rules, for better or worse. "I just followed orders." ah I see, thank you for explaining ^^ I think the only reason my character in NWN2 ended up Lawful Good was because I sided with the guardsmen over the thieves, and by following that storyline I just naturally became lawful good but as to what morality my characters actually are...hm...most are good for the sense of being good, they break laws if it is necessary but will always end up returning to said laws as a sort of guide line , but they will always attempt in helping people they care about I personally find it difficult to play chaotic characters, because it's more about 'me myself and I' then serving a greater purpose of helping others like I said, that probably says something about me as a person in general, for example in the Harry Potter universe I'd probably be sorted in Hufflepuff Let's try it! Harry Potter Test For me, Hawke is an outlaw – neutral or chaotic, but never lawful, and I enjoy it. But perhaps if s/he hates that life they lived, I can imagine s/he can become severely lawful to compensate the outlaw-life.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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LadyofNemesis
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ladyofnemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 7, 2018 17:16:54 GMT
ah I see, thank you for explaining ^^ I think the only reason my character in NWN2 ended up Lawful Good was because I sided with the guardsmen over the thieves, and by following that storyline I just naturally became lawful good but as to what morality my characters actually are...hm...most are good for the sense of being good, they break laws if it is necessary but will always end up returning to said laws as a sort of guide line , but they will always attempt in helping people they care about I personally find it difficult to play chaotic characters, because it's more about 'me myself and I' then serving a greater purpose of helping others like I said, that probably says something about me as a person in general, for example in the Harry Potter universe I'd probably be sorted in Hufflepuff Let's try it! Harry Potter Test For me, Hawke is an outlaw – neutral or chaotic, but never lawful, and I enjoy it. But perhaps if s/he hates that life they lived, I can imagine s/he can become severely lawful to compensate the outlaw-life. pff, you do know the only real Harry Potter test is on Pottermore right?
anyway, in the test you showed just now I got...
You Are 36% Hufflepuff, 27% Gryffindor, 23% Ravenclaw, and 14% Slytherin! You’re undeniably a Hufflepuff, but you definitely have some strong Gryffindor qualities. You proudly wear your heart on your sleeve, but you lack the recklessness of a true Gryffindor, which means that you don’t act on your feelings without thinking. Your kindness and openness is what originally attracts other people to you, but they stay for your unwavering loyalty, meaning you’re constantly surrounded by a large group of friends.
Your slight compatibility with Ravenclaw house hints at an appreciation for knowledge and wisdom, though they are not priorities for you.
--- so, I was right...Hufflepuff for life though the part about being surrounded by a large group of friends...not so much, I don't like crowds but I am very loyal to the few friends I do have
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 17:28:40 GMT
I believe the righteousness – while you're right about, that its a hard term, and easily can be just self-righteousness (chaotic good, chaotic neutral).
To plays as lawful good, is really hard. How would you play as a "lawful good" in Tevinter? What would this character do, if sees, an escaped slave, who kill his/her master and the hunters? This is why I can't understand the "lawful good" term. But perhaps, the lawful good character who insist the "universal law" – when the "local laws" are evil. But this is the neutral good.
Hawke entered the politics, but prevented to use his/her influence (to become a Viscount) and to change the law – and that unjust law was not especially Kirkwall's law. Hoo boy, that's a tough one. After giving it some thought, this is what a lawful good character played by me would do (which isn't necessarily what I myself would do): In the extremely unlikely case (given that slavery exists) that the escaped slave has willingly indentured himself, i.e. is not a slave against his will, AND can expect a fair trial that would end with some mild punishment like a short jail term or the payment of a weregild, my character would hand the man over to the authorities, and then try to find out as much as possible about the circumstances of the deed to make sure justice is served, including punishment of any remaining slave owners for the bad treatment that led to the murder. But let's face it, that's not going to happen because societies that allow slavery are very unlikely to be kind and fair in all other aspects. So, the most likely case is that he'd hide the slave and help him escape the city if so desired. Then he'd join the Lucerni to try and make a better tomorrow for all of Tevinter, one small lawful step by step. It's not an extremely unlikely case. Even in the Dragon Age, just as another fantasy world, plus the real world it happens/happened. When the only "good" choice is to hide the escaped one. This is why I said: sometimes the "lawful good" is an oxymoron. (I hope, the Lucerni against the slavery as well – not just for the light reforms...)
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 17:36:25 GMT
Let's try it! Harry Potter Test For me, Hawke is an outlaw – neutral or chaotic, but never lawful, and I enjoy it. But perhaps if s/he hates that life they lived, I can imagine s/he can become severely lawful to compensate the outlaw-life. pff, you do know the only real Harry Potter test is on Pottermore right?
anyway, in the test you showed just now I got...
You Are 36% Hufflepuff, 27% Gryffindor, 23% Ravenclaw, and 14% Slytherin! You’re undeniably a Hufflepuff, but you definitely have some strong Gryffindor qualities. You proudly wear your heart on your sleeve, but you lack the recklessness of a true Gryffindor, which means that you don’t act on your feelings without thinking. Your kindness and openness is what originally attracts other people to you, but they stay for your unwavering loyalty, meaning you’re constantly surrounded by a large group of friends.
Your slight compatibility with Ravenclaw house hints at an appreciation for knowledge and wisdom, though they are not priorities for you.
--- so, I was right...Hufflepuff for life though the part about being surrounded by a large group of friends...not so much, I don't like crowds but I am very loyal to the few friends I do have Perhaps, you don't like the crowds (you're not alone in this feeling) – but probably many can love you. Here's mine: You Are 47% Gryffindor, 23% Slytherin, 16% Hufflepuff, and 14% Ravenclaw!
Like Harry Potter himself, your allegiances definitely lie with Gryffindor, but Slytherin may be a better fit for you than you’d originally think. Your passion for adventure, excitement, and new experiences means that Gryffindor is the perfect place for you. You are fiercely loyal to your closest friends – sometimes even to a fault – and the recklessness and optimism that comes with being a Gryffindor combined with the ambition of Slytherin will ensure that you go far in life.
Your slight compatibility with Hufflepuff house suggests a deep love and appreciation for those close to you, which you may keep hidden for fear of being hurt.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
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ladyofnemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 7, 2018 17:42:35 GMT
Heh, Gryffindor does seem to suit you ^^ Hoo boy, that's a tough one. After giving it some thought, this is what a lawful good character played by me would do (which isn't necessarily what I myself would do): In the extremely unlikely case (given that slavery exists) that the escaped slave has willingly indentured himself, i.e. is not a slave against his will, AND can expect a fair trial that would end with some mild punishment like a short jail term or the payment of a weregild, my character would hand the man over to the authorities, and then try to find out as much as possible about the circumstances of the deed to make sure justice is served, including punishment of any remaining slave owners for the bad treatment that led to the murder. But let's face it, that's not going to happen because societies that allow slavery are very unlikely to be kind and fair in all other aspects. So, the most likely case is that he'd hide the slave and help him escape the city if so desired. Then he'd join the Lucerni to try and make a better tomorrow for all of Tevinter, one small lawful step by step. It's not an extremely unlikely case. Even in the Dragon Age, just as another fantasy world, plus the real world it happens/happened. When the only "good" choice is to hide the escaped one. This is why I said: sometimes the "lawful good" is an oxymoron. (I hope, the Lucerni against the slavery as well – not just for the light reforms...) both Dorian and Maevaris are Lucerni and both seem to (at least as far as what we've seen and heard) treat those that serve them well if in DA 4 we end up being able to support the Lucerni I sincerely hope they are also advocates for the little people aka. the slaves and non magical citizens of Tevinter Dorian seems to really want to change his homeland for the better, even if he sees slavery as a necessary evil (they don't know any better), but I think his time in the south as well as his work with the Inquisition will have changed his opinion on that as well (though depending on their relationship with the Inquisitor I expect)
I actually hope that (depending on race) we can play as a member of the Magisterium (provided we indeed go to Tevinter), that might actually make for an interesting way to investigate our morals.
For example in our relation with our servants (or slaves), are we good to them...or are we blood mages that use even the youngest child in blood rituals to fuel our own ambition?
I do think that would make for an interesting role playing aspect, and give for some unique replaying possibilities as well ^^
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 17:55:57 GMT
It's not an extremely unlikely case. Even in the Dragon Age, just as another fantasy world, plus the real world it happens/happened. When the only "good" choice is to hide the escaped one. This is why I said: sometimes the "lawful good" is an oxymoron. (I hope, the Lucerni against the slavery as well – not just for the light reforms...) both Dorian and Maevaris are Lucerni and both seem to (at least as far as what we've seen and heard) treat those that serve them well if in DA 4 we end up being able to support the Lucerni I sincerely hope they are also advocates for the little people aka. the slaves and non magical citizens of Tevinter Dorian seems to really want to change his homeland for the better, even if he sees slavery as a necessary evil (they don't know any better), but I think his time in the south as well as his work with the Inquisition will have changed his opinion on that as well (though depending on their relationship with the Inquisitor I expect)
I actually hope that (depending on race) we can play as a member of the Magisterium (provided we indeed go to Tevinter), that might actually make for an interesting way to investigate our morals.
For example in our relation with our servants (or slaves), are we good to them...or are we blood mages that use even the youngest child in blood rituals to fuel our own ambition?
I do think that would make for an interesting role playing aspect, and give for some unique replaying possibilities as well ^^ It's not about how they treat their slaves. It about accepts the slavery or not. There's no compromise. The slavery's not that something that needs some reform. The slavery's irreformable. Sadly, I don't see, Dorian even think about it – but I hope. Fenris spoke about that some Archons tried it – they died early. So, despite the sad end, the hope still exists. The question is they want it, or not. (I would like to play as a Magister/Altus – and I would like to a possibility to destroy or support the system. I would destroy that.)
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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ladyofnemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 7, 2018 18:06:16 GMT
both Dorian and Maevaris are Lucerni and both seem to (at least as far as what we've seen and heard) treat those that serve them well if in DA 4 we end up being able to support the Lucerni I sincerely hope they are also advocates for the little people aka. the slaves and non magical citizens of Tevinter Dorian seems to really want to change his homeland for the better, even if he sees slavery as a necessary evil (they don't know any better), but I think his time in the south as well as his work with the Inquisition will have changed his opinion on that as well (though depending on their relationship with the Inquisitor I expect)
I actually hope that (depending on race) we can play as a member of the Magisterium (provided we indeed go to Tevinter), that might actually make for an interesting way to investigate our morals.
For example in our relation with our servants (or slaves), are we good to them...or are we blood mages that use even the youngest child in blood rituals to fuel our own ambition?
I do think that would make for an interesting role playing aspect, and give for some unique replaying possibilities as well ^^ It's not about how they treat their slaves. It about accepts the slavery or not. There's no compromise. The slavery's not that something that needs some reform. The slavery's irreformable. Sadly, I don't see, Dorian even think about it – but I hope. Fenris spoke about that some Archons tried it – they died early. So, despite the sad end, the hope still exists. The question is they want it, or not. (I would like to play as a Magister/Altus – and I would like to a possibility to destroy or support the system. I would destroy that.) Fenris also says that Tevinter would crumble without the slave trade, so even if we can drastically change that system in DA 4, Tevinter would get greatly weakened as a result provided the Qunari are launching attacks at them (and we don't fight or stop them in DA4) Tevinter might crumble entirely
but yeah, if given the choice to change the system, I do think my character would take it I already do have a plan for a character, but it all depends on class specializations if I can fully realize her I have her as a dreamer (like Solas/Feynriel) and a shapeshifter, but I suspect neither will be a specialization...
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Post by Catilina on Aug 7, 2018 18:23:47 GMT
It's not about how they treat their slaves. It about accepts the slavery or not. There's no compromise. The slavery's not that something that needs some reform. The slavery's irreformable. Sadly, I don't see, Dorian even think about it – but I hope. Fenris spoke about that some Archons tried it – they died early. So, despite the sad end, the hope still exists. The question is they want it, or not. (I would like to play as a Magister/Altus – and I would like to a possibility to destroy or support the system. I would destroy that.) Fenris also says that Tevinter would crumble without the slave trade, so even if we can drastically change that system in DA 4, Tevinter would get greatly weakened as a result provided the Qunari are launching attacks at them (and we don't fight or stop them in DA4) Tevinter might crumble entirely
but yeah, if given the choice to change the system, I do think my character would take it I already do have a plan for a character, but it all depends on class specializations if I can fully realize her I have her as a dreamer (like Solas/Feynriel) and a shapeshifter, but I suspect neither will be a specialization... Yes, I know. Perhaps we have to choose between the "safe" solution with supporting the slavery (at least temporarily) or to support the radical change but in the cost of the risk of the destabilizing the Imperium. If you ask me, the Qun is worse – because there no will for any change, and everyone's the system's slave... I hope we'll see interesting decisions Fenris even said, that the Qunary able to defeat Tevinter – and it was not questioned, that with or without the slavery. The dreamers are very rare, but I even want a possibility to be possessed. As Wynne and Anders – and our spirit will be shaped by our decisions and personality.
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LadyofNemesis
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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LadyofNemesis
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July 2018
ladyofnemesis
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Aug 7, 2018 18:41:54 GMT
Fenris also says that Tevinter would crumble without the slave trade, so even if we can drastically change that system in DA 4, Tevinter would get greatly weakened as a result provided the Qunari are launching attacks at them (and we don't fight or stop them in DA4) Tevinter might crumble entirely
but yeah, if given the choice to change the system, I do think my character would take it I already do have a plan for a character, but it all depends on class specializations if I can fully realize her I have her as a dreamer (like Solas/Feynriel) and a shapeshifter, but I suspect neither will be a specialization... Yes, I know. Perhaps we have to choose between the "safe" solution with supporting the slavery (at least temporarily) or to support the radical change but in the cost of the risk of the destabilizing the Imperium. If you ask me, the Qun is worse – because there no will for any change, and everyone's the system's slave... I hope we'll see interesting decisions Fenris even said, that the Qunary able to defeat Tevinter – and it was not questioned, that with or without the slavery. The dreamers are very rare, but I even want a possibility to be possessed. As Wynne and Anders – and our spirit will be shaped by our decisions and personality. True...but being a Dreamer could be so much fun *sigh* I suppose a girl can dream being possessed would make for an interesting alternative, but I wouldn't want for it to be a mandatory choice
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