inherit
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0
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810
warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 1, 2018 23:10:12 GMT
And what's your point? That mage destruction is right or something?
The reality is destruction also comes from your beloved mages, but is hard to read that do you? It's normal, when something you like has the same issues that the things you dislike, a couple of things happen, one is it gets ignored thus making you an hypocrite and the second option is refusing of reality and developing a believe that the issues are not existent, making you a fool or an ignorant. (call it however you like) "Magic can kill. Knives can kill. Even small children launched at great speed could kill. " (Zevran) Anders: You do have an opinion on mages, don't you? Isabela: Of course I do. I just don't feel a constant need to bring it up. Isabela: (Sighs) Mages don't worry me. And I don't believe the templars when they say I should be worried. Isabela: I'm more likely to be shanked in a bar than eaten by an abomination. You can hear those coming a mile away. Isabela: "Grr. Argh!" "Oh, is that an abomination coming to eat us? We should get out of here!" Anders: Abominations don't go, "Grr. Argh." Isabela: They don't? I should rethink the whole thing, then. Fenris: So I hear you think mages should be free. Isabela: Everyone should be free. Not just mages. Fenris: Not everyone's dangerous. Isabela: It's not about who's dangerous. It's about having choices made for you. Of course. Anders and Isabela exchange doesn't make any sense, seems like a comedy. Following Isabela's logic, what you may consider evil and bad people should also be free. And using common sense I don't think that's wise.
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127
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Jun 25, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
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Catilina
11,030
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Aug 1, 2018 23:17:06 GMT
"Magic can kill. Knives can kill. Even small children launched at great speed could kill. " (Zevran) Anders: You do have an opinion on mages, don't you? Isabela: Of course I do. I just don't feel a constant need to bring it up. Isabela: (Sighs) Mages don't worry me. And I don't believe the templars when they say I should be worried. Isabela: I'm more likely to be shanked in a bar than eaten by an abomination. You can hear those coming a mile away. Isabela: "Grr. Argh!" "Oh, is that an abomination coming to eat us? We should get out of here!" Anders: Abominations don't go, "Grr. Argh." Isabela: They don't? I should rethink the whole thing, then. Fenris: So I hear you think mages should be free. Isabela: Everyone should be free. Not just mages. Fenris: Not everyone's dangerous. Isabela: It's not about who's dangerous. It's about having choices made for you. Of course. Anders and Isabela exchange doesn't make any sense, seems like a comedy. Following Isabela's logic, what you may consider evil and bad people should also be free. And using common sense I don't think that's wise. Bad and evil people are free. Even some criminals. Celene/Gaspard rule with the Inquisitor's approval... Among Tevinter Magister are many evil and bad people. Behlen (or Harrowmont, he's also not a saint...) rules – many-many bad-bad ladies and lords... Meredith ruled over the city for years – freely. Nobody cared, not even Elthina... bad, very bad. But of course, the criminals have to be imprisonment – and non-criminals live freely.
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810
warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 1, 2018 23:20:55 GMT
Of course.
Anders and Isabela exchange doesn't make any sense, seems like a comedy.
Following Isabela's logic, what you may consider evil and bad people should also be free. And using common sense I don't think that's wise. Bad and evil people are free. Even some criminals. Celene/Gaspard rule with the Inquisitor's approval... Among Tevinter Magister are many evil and bad people. Behlen (or Harrowmont, he's also not a saint...) rules – many-many bad-bad ladies and lords... Meredith ruled over the city for years – freely. Nobody cared, not even Elthina... bad, very bad. But of course, the criminals have to be imprisonment – and non-criminals live freely. and many bad mages too, famous and non famous, important and unimportant. you also should include them.
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Wanted Apostate
127
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Jun 25, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Aug 1, 2018 23:23:44 GMT
Bad and evil people are free. Even some criminals. Celene/Gaspard rule with the Inquisitor's approval... Among Tevinter Magister are many evil and bad people. Behlen (or Harrowmont, he's also not a saint...) rules – many-many bad-bad ladies and lords... Meredith ruled over the city for years – freely. Nobody cared, not even Elthina... bad, very bad. But of course, the criminals have to be imprisonment – and non-criminals live freely. and many bad mages too, famous and non famous, important and unimportant. you also should include them. Magisters are mages, I just say. Less "important" people? I didn't even mention the Carta dwarves, smugglers, assassins etc. But they work to the "important" ones...
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warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 1, 2018 23:30:58 GMT
and many bad mages too, famous and non famous, important and unimportant.
you also should include them. Magisters are mages, I just say. Less "important" people? I didn't even mention the Carta dwarves, smugglers, assassins etc. You are just condemning magisters, not bad mages in general, but okay. Anyway, we are getting a bit out of the topic now. Let's stay to the circles.
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Wanted Apostate
127
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Jun 25, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Aug 1, 2018 23:41:31 GMT
Magisters are mages, I just say. Less "important" people? I didn't even mention the Carta dwarves, smugglers, assassins etc. You are just condemning magisters, not bad mages in general, but okay. Anyway, we are getting a bit out of the topic now. Let's stay to the circles. I just said: It depends on the position, who considered criminal, and the "bad" and "evil" never was a legal category. Not even the "good"... So: back to the Circles: they should be education and magical research centres, not prisons of innocents. The prisons should be a place of the criminals. Not the possible criminals, troublemakers, and dangerous people
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0
Nov 27, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
810
warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 1, 2018 23:46:58 GMT
You are just condemning magisters, not bad mages in general, but okay.
Anyway, we are getting a bit out of the topic now.
Let's stay to the circles. I just said: It depends on the position, who considered criminal, and the "bad" and "evil" never was a legal category. Not even the "good"... So: back to the Circles: they should be education and magical research centres, not prisons of innocents. The prisons should be a place of the criminals. Not the possible criminals, troublemakers, and dangerous people.
Hey you are the moralist here not me. I just saw that you were condeming (and saying only this some had issues) some, but not others. (your mages) Circles are already a education and magical research centres though.
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Wanted Apostate
127
0
Jun 25, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Aug 1, 2018 23:59:03 GMT
I just said: It depends on the position, who considered criminal, and the "bad" and "evil" never was a legal category. Not even the "good"... So: back to the Circles: they should be education and magical research centres, not prisons of innocents. The prisons should be a place of the criminals. Not the possible criminals, troublemakers, and dangerous people.
Hey you are the moralist here not me. I just saw that you were condeming (and saying only this some had issues) some, but not others. (your mages) Circles are already a education and magical research centres though. And prisons. Do you want equitable judgement? Make an equitable system! Until isn't exist, I will be biased. But I never said, the criminal mages don't deserve punishment. But not because they escape and kill their persecutors , or rebel.
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LogicGunn
N3
![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png) ![*](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/Cxe61tFipqUzASLV595U.png)
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: LogicGunn
PSN: LogicGunn
Posts: 869 Likes: 1,715
inherit
2060
0
1,715
LogicGunn
I'll relinquish one bullet. Where do you want it?
869
November 2016
logicgunn
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
LogicGunn
LogicGunn
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Post by LogicGunn on Aug 2, 2018 7:24:37 GMT
"Magic can kill. Knives can kill. Even small children launched at great speed could kill. " (Zevran) Anders: You do have an opinion on mages, don't you? Isabela: Of course I do. I just don't feel a constant need to bring it up. Isabela: (Sighs) Mages don't worry me. And I don't believe the templars when they say I should be worried. Isabela: I'm more likely to be shanked in a bar than eaten by an abomination. You can hear those coming a mile away. Isabela: "Grr. Argh!" "Oh, is that an abomination coming to eat us? We should get out of here!" Anders: Abominations don't go, "Grr. Argh." Isabela: They don't? I should rethink the whole thing, then. Fenris: So I hear you think mages should be free. Isabela: Everyone should be free. Not just mages. Fenris: Not everyone's dangerous. Isabela: It's not about who's dangerous. It's about having choices made for you. Of course. Anders and Isabela exchange doesn't make any sense, seems like a comedy. Following Isabela's logic, what you may consider evil and bad people should also be free. And using common sense I don't think that's wise.It's more about the assumption that someone is dangerous and thus detainable by virtue of what they are, rather than what they've done.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
Jun 25, 2024 20:41:04 GMT
27,745
gervaise21
11,347
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 2, 2018 11:16:46 GMT
It's more about the assumption that someone is dangerous and thus detainable by virtue of what they are, rather than what they've done. This is really the crux of the matter. In southern Thedas mages are considered guilty until proven innocent rather than the other way around as it is for the majority of people. Also if you are a noble mage you can effectively buy your freedom if your family has sufficient clout with the Chantry. I would also point to the fact that being in a Circle didn't prevent that First Enchanter from working with the Architect on a plot that could have threatened all Thedas, so the southern system wasn't even effective as a preventative measure against dangerous magic. Divine Justinia also authorised illegal dangerous experimentation with magic and no one knew about this until the damage had been done and many lives lost and that involved using a supposedly "safe" tranquil. Strangely enough, on the whole, Tevinter has been rather better at policing dangerous magic, which is why those with world domination aspirations had to resort to basing their operations outside of Tevinter (on Seheron or in southern Thedas). As Archon Radonis points out, top Magisters have nothing to gain and everything to lose in letting factions like the Venatori operate within their borders or letting experimental magic get out of control. I'm not saying there is no corruption in the Circles but self regulation by mages has pretty much kept a lid on it. Of course the Magisterium is a different matter but that is politics for you. Remember most of the illegal magic goes on behind closed doors on private estates, which has equally been the case in the south with people like Gaspard du Puis.
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Post by Iddy on Aug 2, 2018 11:24:39 GMT
Fenris and Lambert believe that mage freedom will inevitable lead to a magocracy. That's a little conspiracy theor-ish to me.
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0
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810
warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 2, 2018 12:46:31 GMT
Hey you are the moralist here not me. I just saw that you were condeming (and saying only this some had issues) some, but not others. (your mages)
Circles are already a education and magical research centres though. And prisons. Do you want equitable judgement? Make an equitable system! Until isn't exist, I will be biased. But I never said, the criminal mages don't deserve punishment. But not because they escape and kill their persecutors , or rebel. So, you justify bad mages and non bad mages that can potentially do wrong, with this "non equal system", nice. I will keep exterminating them if they get in my way then.
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Wanted Apostate
127
0
Jun 25, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Aug 2, 2018 13:00:42 GMT
And prisons. Do you want equitable judgement? Make an equitable system! Until isn't exist, I will be biased. But I never said, the criminal mages don't deserve punishment. But not because they escape and kill their persecutors , or rebel. So, you justify bad mages and non bad mages that can potentially do wrong, with this "non equal system", nice. I will keep exterminating them if they get in my way then. Your way is your way, and mine is mine. I'll not judge a mage who breaks the "law" with escaping and killing some persecutor Templar. But I'll judge Templars, who break their own law with Tranquilizing mages for fun and for keeping in fear the others and rape mages. I'll not judge Templars if break the "law" with helping the Mages to escape. I'll not judge Mages who study blood magic – because this is effective against the templars skill, and this is a war (and the Chantry uses blood magic too) – but I will judge the Mages if they using it to abuse their power: to torture people and made them a puppet. Self-defence is okay – abuse of power isn't.
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0
Nov 27, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
810
warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 2, 2018 13:07:15 GMT
So, you justify bad mages and non bad mages that can potentially do wrong, with this "non equal system", nice. I will keep exterminating them if they get in my way then. Your way is your way, and mine is mine. I'll not judge a mage who breaks the "law" with escaping and killing some persecutor Templar. But I'll judge Templars, who break their own law with Tranquilizing mages for fun and for keeping in fear the others and rape mages. I'll not judge Templars if break the "law" with helping the Mages to escape. I'll not judge Mages who study blood magic – because this is effective against the templars skill, and this is a war (and the Chantry uses blood magic too) – but I will judge the Mages if they using it to abuse their power: to torture people and made them a puppet. Self-defence is okay – abuse of power isn't. I don't really care about all this rubish, the point is you are constantly claming the other side, villains and evil, when the mages are exactly the same, all sides has their good and bad points, the problem here is the hypocrisy and demagogy you are displaying. With that in mind, it's hard to take anything you say really seriously or even saying that you are right or have some points.
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Wanted Apostate
127
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Jun 25, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Aug 2, 2018 13:25:26 GMT
Your way is your way, and mine is mine. I'll not judge a mage who breaks the "law" with escaping and killing some persecutor Templar. But I'll judge Templars, who break their own law with Tranquilizing mages for fun and for keeping in fear the others and rape mages. I'll not judge Templars if break the "law" with helping the Mages to escape. I'll not judge Mages who study blood magic – because this is effective against the templars skill, and this is a war (and the Chantry uses blood magic too) – but I will judge the Mages if they using it to abuse their power: to torture people and made them a puppet. Self-defence is okay – abuse of power isn't. I don't really care about all this rubish, the point is you are constantly claming the other side, villains and evil, when the mages are exactly the same, all sides has their good and bad points, the problem here is the hypocrisy and demagogy you are displaying. With that in mind, it's hard to take anything you say really seriously or even saying that you are right or have some points. You missed my point: the question isn't that there are "bad" mages or not. The "bad" mages are criminals: Tarohne, The Exotic Wonder, Erimond, Quentin etc. They have to be punished. They're not freedom fighters, only simple criminals – they can't justify their acts. An example: Hadriana, Danarius deserved their death. But Fenris, according to Tevinter law is a criminal: he deprived his master of his property – himself, and he's a murderer. But I judge Danarius and Hadriana – and Fenris' right. According to Tevinter's law, Danarius has right to demand his property – and Fenris and Hawke murdered him... Such a double standard... I can justify many "murderer".
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inherit
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0
Nov 27, 2017 14:40:55 GMT
810
warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 2, 2018 13:35:51 GMT
I don't really care about all this rubish, the point is you are constantly claming the other side, villains and evil, when the mages are exactly the same, all sides has their good and bad points, the problem here is the hypocrisy and demagogy you are displaying. With that in mind, it's hard to take anything you say really seriously or even saying that you are right or have some points. You missed my point: the question isn't that there are "bad" mages or not. The "bad" mages are criminals: Tarohne, The Exotic Wonder, Erimond, Quentin etc. They have to be punished. They're not freedom fighters, only simple criminals – they can't justify their acts. An example: Hadriana, Danarius deserved their death. But Fenris, according to Tevinter law is a criminal: he deprived his master of his property – himself, and he's a murderer. But I judge Danarius and Hadriana – and Fenris' right. According to Tevinter's law, Danarius has right to demand his property – and Fenris and Hawke murdered him... Such a double standard... I can justify many "murderer". Well you really seem to have a double standard, and if you are referring to me, i'm sorry to say that I don't care for anybody's side and i'm not in any side actually, i'm very neutral, just pointing that the issues you see in templars, the mages also have them, but you choose to conveniently ignore them (or dismiss them) and then you start attacking the opposite side believing you are right when you are not. Anyway i'll drop it here, we are already out of topic again. Feel free to answer back.
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Wanted Apostate
127
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Jun 25, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Aug 2, 2018 13:59:53 GMT
You missed my point: the question isn't that there are "bad" mages or not. The "bad" mages are criminals: Tarohne, The Exotic Wonder, Erimond, Quentin etc. They have to be punished. They're not freedom fighters, only simple criminals – they can't justify their acts. An example: Hadriana, Danarius deserved their death. But Fenris, according to Tevinter law is a criminal: he deprived his master of his property – himself, and he's a murderer. But I judge Danarius and Hadriana – and Fenris' right. According to Tevinter's law, Danarius has right to demand his property – and Fenris and Hawke murdered him... Such a double standard... I can justify many "murderer". Well you really seem to have a double standard, and if you are referring to me, i'm sorry to say that I don't care for anybody's side and i'm not in any side actually, i'm very neutral, just pointing that the issues you see in templars, the mages also have them, but you choose to conveniently ignore them (or dismiss them) and then you start attacking the opposite side believing you are right when you are not. Anyway i'll drop it here, we are already out of topic again. Feel free to answer back. "Neutrality's" not exist in such a question. The "neutrality" supports the system. I'm very sad about the Templars. They should have a fight with the mages together for a better system. They're victims too. The main goal is the elimination of the system, not killing Templars. Sadly they insist on the system – while they're the system's slaves too – and many of them finish their life as a miserable human wreck... But the Templars rarely killed just because they're Templars (Tarohne and her cult did it – but they're criminals), but many mages killed, pursued and lobotomized just because born as a mage. To born as something isn't a crime – nobody deserves life imprisonment for it, even if a possible danger. Oh, and thank you, to let me feel free to answer back! You're too kind!
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
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Jun 25, 2024 20:41:04 GMT
27,745
gervaise21
11,347
August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 2, 2018 15:14:40 GMT
Fenris and Lambert believe that mage freedom will inevitable lead to a magocracy. That's a little conspiracy theor-ish to me. Well both of them have been heavily influenced by their own experiences. These were actually very similar in terms of what they witnessed. As bodyguard to Danarius Fenris did have the perfect opportunity to study what went on out of the public gaze but the fact that these things had to be done in private would suggest that he might have been called to account had other Magisters been aware of it. Of course he also makes the point that everyone breaks the rules because they know everyone else is breaking the rules and want to stay, if not ahead, then at least abreast of their rivals. However, this is not a uniquely mage thing but what happens in every society that we have encountered where cut-throat politics are the order of the day. The nobility of Orlais and Orzammar may use different weapons but the corrupting influence of power is still there. Lambert also had the opportunity to study the workings of the mage hierarchy at close hand but from the perspective of someone who was outside the loop of the secret goings on. He felt betrayed by his former "friend" Urian once the latter became Black Divine but maybe Lambert was just rather naïve, as Urian suggests when confronted. After all, it wasn't a case of being boyhood friends but Lambert had been drafted in from the south to assist Magister Urian with his "reforms". Maybe Lambert should have been asking himself exactly why Urian was willing to place such trust in an outsider. Lambert was from Orlesian nobility so it seems strange he should imagine the northern mage nobility should be any more trustworthy than the southern non-mages. Once again, I would say that the political backstabbing and use of questionable methods to achieve greater status was not the fault of magic but the corruptive allure of power. So not so much a conspiracy theory but just similar experiences giving rise to the same conclusion in the mind of the sufferer. Hardly surprising since both were written by the same person.
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inherit
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0
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810
warden
1,165
Nov 25, 2017 22:12:36 GMT
November 2017
warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 2, 2018 16:53:54 GMT
Well you really seem to have a double standard, and if you are referring to me, i'm sorry to say that I don't care for anybody's side and i'm not in any side actually, i'm very neutral, just pointing that the issues you see in templars, the mages also have them, but you choose to conveniently ignore them (or dismiss them) and then you start attacking the opposite side believing you are right when you are not.
Anyway i'll drop it here, we are already out of topic again. Feel free to answer back. "Neutrality's" not exist in such a question. The "neutrality" supports the system. I'm very sad about the Templars. They should have a fight with the mages together for a better system. They're victims too. The main goal is the elimination of the system, not killing Templars. Sadly they insist on the system – while they're the system's slaves too – and many of them finish their life as a miserable human wreck... But the Templars rarely killed just because they're Templars (Tarohne and her cult did it – but they're criminals), but many mages killed, pursued and lobotomized just because born as a mage. To born as something isn't a crime – nobody deserves life imprisonment for it, even if a possible danger. Oh, and thank you, to let me feel free to answer back! You're too kind! Oh, neutrality exist, but that's not something black and white thinkers know. You know I didn't meant it that way (basically just granting you permission because i feel superior or something as you thought) but okay, if you want to be hypersensitive so be it.
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Wanted Apostate
127
0
Jun 25, 2024 23:53:23 GMT
18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
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Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Aug 2, 2018 16:55:38 GMT
"Neutrality's" not exist in such a question. The "neutrality" supports the system. I'm very sad about the Templars. They should have a fight with the mages together for a better system. They're victims too. The main goal is the elimination of the system, not killing Templars. Sadly they insist on the system – while they're the system's slaves too – and many of them finish their life as a miserable human wreck... But the Templars rarely killed just because they're Templars (Tarohne and her cult did it – but they're criminals), but many mages killed, pursued and lobotomized just because born as a mage. To born as something isn't a crime – nobody deserves life imprisonment for it, even if a possible danger. Oh, and thank you, to let me feel free to answer back! You're too kind! Oh, neutrality exist, but that's not something black and white thinkers know. You know I didn't meant it that way (basically just granting you permission because i feel superior or something as you thought) but okay, if you want to be hypersensitive so be it. The neutrality is passive support of the existing system.
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warden
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warden
https://images4.alphacoders.com/101/thumb-1920-1010967.png
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by warden on Aug 2, 2018 17:04:25 GMT
Oh, neutrality exist, but that's not something black and white thinkers know.
You know I didn't meant it that way (basically just granting you permission because i feel superior or something as you thought) but okay, if you want to be hypersensitive so be it. The neutrality is passive support of the existing system. Neutrality is not taking any side of the spectrum, no matter if it is a war, politics, system, whatever, you don't do any good but also you don't do any bad, you see from the outside how sides clash with each other but you don't get caught in the middle and get harmed by being involved. You don't like neutrality, fine by me, but don't try to force to choose a side if I don't want to, there are already enough people that will.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Aug 3, 2018 6:38:59 GMT
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." Read more at: www.brainyquote.com/quotes/desmond_tutu_106145
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 3, 2018 6:56:46 GMT
Fenris and Lambert believe that mage freedom will inevitable lead to a magocracy. That's a little conspiracy theor-ish to me. That's not what a conspiracy theory is, or even a conspiracy. That is the act of people plotting in secret to achieve some goal. The various theories surrounding the Kennedy assassination are conspiracy theories because the people who believe them think whatever group secretly plotted to assassinate him to support their own agenda. Fenris and Lambert believe that it is inevitable because of what happened in history with Tevinter. In that case, it's more like confusing correlation with causation. The events are related, but mages being "their own watchers" (as Fenris puts it) doesn't necessarily lead to a mageocracy. Regardless, you can't say that with only a single nation/culture as an example. gervaise21 This makes me wonder about the evanuris and the state of elves before the Veil. Did they all have magic and the evanuris were the powerful few, like Tevinter altus? If so, it goes toward disproving the idea that Fenris puts forth, as the enslaved were still slaves, even under the evanuris, despite themselves having magic. That's just a case of people being assholes and has nothing to do with magic.
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Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Nightscrawl on Aug 3, 2018 7:03:27 GMT
"If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality." Read more at: www.brainyquote.com/quotes/desmond_tutu_106145That is one thing I appreciated about both DA2 and DAI, and DAO to a lesser degree. I like that they force the player to choose. The player can use whatever criteria they wish -- roleplay, personal meta knowledge, who has the better outfits, which followers will abandon them, etc -- but they have to choose. There will always be at least one thing that someone can use to make a choice in a situation like that. And, y'know, that's life. Sometimes you can't avoid conflict.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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Jun 25, 2024 20:41:04 GMT
27,745
gervaise21
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August 2016
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Aug 3, 2018 7:31:42 GMT
gervaise21 This makes me wonder about the evanuris and the state of elves before the Veil. Did they all have magic and the evanuris were the powerful few, like Tevinter altus? If so, it goes toward disproving the idea that Fenris puts forth, as the enslaved were still slaves, even under the evanuris, despite themselves having magic. That's just a case of people being assholes and has nothing to do with magic.
I entirely agree. If there were no Soporati in Tevinter you would still have a hierarchy and slavery as Fenris freely admits. Dorian also acknowledges that the reason mages their often resort to blood magic is to keep ahead of their rivals. Magic is simply a source of power but not all mages are equal, just as not all nobles are equal in terms of fighting ability, etc.
So back in the time of the Evanuris they were the most talented of the elves in both magic and leadership skills. The latter was the important factor in their rise to power, according to Solas, not just their superior magical ability. In fact there were probably other elves around who may have been their equal for magical power but didn't have their charisma. Then it would seem after several millennia of leadership the elves forgot they had once been equals and looked up to them as superior beings. Those that didn't were regarded as rebels and dangerous to the rule of the Evanuris, being banished or otherwise vilified with derogatory names to identify them as individuals the people should not associate with.
Solas is right in saying that magic is just a tool like a sword and both can be misused by someone in pursuit of power. Status and influence can also be misused. Much of the nobility was born that way rather than achieving their position on merit, which is why I say that if you are going to lock up mages because of their potential to misuse their gifts, then really you ought to lock up the nobility as well and in fact everyone who seems to have superior skills or status by reason of their birth rather than how they have used them.
Besides, magic is part of the fabric of Thedas. Even after years of locking mages away and discouraging breeding with them, it still emerges in individuals who seem to have no previous family connection with it. Before the Veil is was literally everywhere and even after the Veil it is present in the fabric of the world as lyrium and a tendency for magical concentrations (closer connection to the Fade) to exist in places where much magic has been used over time. Trying to suppress magic is futile. Magical beings will continue to exist even if every mage in the general population was eliminated but, as I say, that has not proven possible either.
Condemning magic en mass is just as bad as condemning all science or religion. All can be misused by people with unlimited ambition for power but they can also be used for the benefit of the population as well. That is essentially the message that Andraste was trying to get across that was later twisted to condemn all mages. Magic is the gift of the Maker for the benefit of all. The foul and corrupt are those who misuse it.
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