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Post by SofaJockey on Jul 31, 2018 20:27:52 GMT
Anthem is set to have a Demo before release. The line between a 'Demo' and a 'Beta' can be quite a fine line these days. Bethesda and DICE are having betas for their games, (Fallout 76 and Battlefield V) and not without 'fan concerns'. So what constitutes getting it right? What Demos/Beta's have publishers run that were examples of how to do it really well? (and what have been cases of what 'not' to do). What are the requisite features of a successful demo?
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Post by SGT NOOBSTER on Jul 31, 2018 20:46:45 GMT
Here is how I would define it.
Demo- Something that I download and can play whenever, even after the release of the full game, that gives a taste of the experience. A good example that comes to mind was the COD 4 demo. It was one full level that gave you a pretty good idea of what the actual game would be and you could play even after the game released, for those people that did not buy it immediately.
Beta- I usually see this as a tool to work out the bugs or to help refine a part of the game. Similar to how some MMOs have limited access months before the full release. However, they are limited access and once they end you have to either get the game or watch other play to get and idea.
I think most demos or betas now are more of a mix of the two. You get a pretty decent idea of the game, while the devs have a chance to work out any kinks that are found or have a chance to listen to player input. But you are also limited to the amount of time (2 weeks for example) you can play or how far you can go (level or mission cap). I have generally preferred an actual Demo, but have had no problem with the version of a Beta that most developers seem to be doing now.
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Post by biggydx on Aug 1, 2018 3:55:44 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there evidence to suggest that when players who tried the demo for a particular title that interested them, they ended up being less likely to play the full game? I need to see if I can find that statement somewhere. Might be why devs moved away from demos and more towards beta's. EDIT: Ah, here it is: www.gamespot.com/articles/game-demos-can-hurt-sales-suggests-research/1100-6410863/The article also clarifies that this could also be a case of "Correlation =/ Causation"
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Post by Sanunes on Aug 1, 2018 5:19:42 GMT
I think one of the reasons why developers have really labeled their demos as betas now is that they don't generate the expectation of being available forever. Beta makes a person think it is still part of the development cycle and demo is the finished product.
As far as making a good one, I am not sure if BioWare really can do that for there are so many different elements people want to see in their games that even if they give access to a mission and the roundup afterwards I am not sure if that would appease the critics. Which you can even see now with the videos they have released when people are wanting to see different content they are interested in demonstrated.
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Post by PillarBiter on Aug 1, 2018 6:21:01 GMT
Demo's were proven by numbers to not boost sales in any significant manner (quite the opposite).
I say: Have no beta or demo, and instead focus that extra free time on bugsolving and balance.
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Post by Pounce de León on Aug 1, 2018 9:34:13 GMT
I have no idea. Current meta is to try and get "influencers" to spread the word. I'd say if you want demos, lobby for consumer protection to increase your refund windows. Then you basically get a demo and maybe a proper insight how the game really is. Tho the experience can vary vastly from early to late game at times.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 1, 2018 15:03:49 GMT
The thing I worry about is that "demo" implies a finished product, whether that's what Bioware intends or not. So if the released game differs significantly from the demo, or if the demo is very buggy, there could be a big enough backlash that it will hurt sales.
A "beta" implies that it may not be representative of the finished product and to expect bugs. I see no downside to calling it a "beta", so I'm puzzled by the insistence on calling it a "demo".
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 1, 2018 15:10:41 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there evidence to suggest that when players who tried the demo for a particular title that interested them, they ended up being less likely to play the full game? I need to see if I can find that statement somewhere. Might be why devs moved away from demos and more towards beta's. EDIT: Ah, here it is: www.gamespot.com/articles/game-demos-can-hurt-sales-suggests-research/1100-6410863/The article also clarifies that this could also be a case of "Correlation =/ Causation" Demos hurt sales as compared to buying blind? Yeah, I'd have to say that's stating the obvious, given that sales of games bought blind are artificially inflated. UNLESS the research study accounts for returns for refunds, and importantly, people who would have returned for a refund if refunds were allowed, of which I find no mention in that stub of an article. To be sure, demos do work both ways. A free demo can convince someone to buy a game that they never would have bought blind. That's certainly been the case for at least one game demo I tried. Whether that positive bump is big enough to offset the buyers regret/refund negative would take a lot of meticulous number crunching to discover, assuming one could even get a hold of those highly secret, and in some cases, not even accurately recorded in the first place, numbers.
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Aug 1, 2018 15:15:41 GMT
I say: Have no beta or demo, and instead focus that extra free time on bugsolving and balance. You can't bugsolve without real world testing, and you can't get real world testing of an online game without beta testing. A thousandfold so if the online game goes live globally and/or across multiple platforms, even without cross-platform play. That doesn't say that the beta has to a public beta, but the bugs that happen under peak load won't be found without, you know, having a peak load. It's like building a new Formula 1 racer from scratch, but never testing it above 60 mph.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 1, 2018 15:18:50 GMT
Demo's were proven by numbers to not boost sales Yep, a classic video: Of course in Anthem's case, the demo is mostly only for those who have already pre-ordered,so the odds are stacked slightly more in BioWare's favor.
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Post by melbella on Aug 2, 2018 3:29:34 GMT
The demo for ME3 is what convinced me to buy the first 2 games before 3 released. It included a complete (non-import) prologue and a heavily edited (import, because Wrex was in it) Sur'Kesh mission.
I'm not sure a demo like that would work for an online MP game like Anthem. Like others have said, the online system needs to be tested and that can only be done if A LOT of people are playing simultaneously. A WIP stress test (beta) is probably a better way to go but not sure if limiting to pre-orders will provide enough data.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 2, 2018 11:05:53 GMT
Some believe that Mark Darrah's recent tweet hints at a December 2nd Demo.
Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah 12 is the largest single syllable number in English 2 is the only even prime Coincidence? No. Because those things aren’t even related to each other
Would a Demo 11 weeks pre-launch be about the right time ahead?
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Post by biggydx on Aug 2, 2018 20:51:18 GMT
Some believe that Mark Darrah's recent tweet hints at a December 2nd Demo. Mark Darrah @biomarkdarrah 12 is the largest single syllable number in English 2 is the only even prime Coincidence? No. Because those things aren’t even related to each otherWould a Demo 11 weeks pre-launch be about the right time ahead? A Sunday is a pretty odd time to have a demo. I'm more likely to believe it'll be February 12, which lands on a Tuesday. Sucks that we'd have to wait that long to play the demo if true.
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Post by SofaJockey on Aug 2, 2018 21:13:06 GMT
I'm more likely to believe it'll be February 12, which lands on a Tuesday. Sucks that we'd have to wait that long to play the demo if true. A Demo 3 days before the game actually launches (to Premiere customers) makes zero sense to me. I think it's more likely to be unrelated than be February 12th.
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Post by biggydx on Aug 3, 2018 0:27:00 GMT
I'm more likely to believe it'll be February 12, which lands on a Tuesday. Sucks that we'd have to wait that long to play the demo if true. A Demo 3 days before the game actually launches (to Premiere customers) makes zero sense to me. I think it's more likely to be unrelated than be February 12th. IDK, we'll see. I'm not complaining if it comes early though.
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Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Aug 5, 2018 15:37:24 GMT
Mass Effect 3 did the demo right, as far as I'm concerned. We got to have a look, we got to have some fun, and the MP really wasn't in bad shape at all. I don't see why they couldn't repeat that.
But Anthem doesn't have the fanboy factor that Mass Effect does, so... I don't know.
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Post by melbella on Aug 5, 2018 15:54:44 GMT
Mass Effect 3 did the demo right, as far as I'm concerned. We got to have a look, we got to have some fun, and the MP really wasn't in bad shape at all. I don't see why they couldn't repeat that. But Anthem doesn't have the fanboy factor that Mass Effect does, so... I don't know.
Oh, you're right....I forgot that MP was also part of the demo. I don't think I even knew it was a thing at the time. I was only interested in the SP stuff.
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