Post by arsjac on Aug 20, 2018 19:15:09 GMT
(Repost from reddit)
I know I am way late to the party, I have played Mass Effect 1 around six years ago, but only now finished ME3. I've heard the ending was terrible, but WOWser, the logic of it is absolutely CRAZY.
First of all, the whole trope of the Citadel being one huge surprise egg rears its ugly head again. That concept was already stupid in ME1, but I was able to overlook it, but in ME3 I just can't anymore: It is said multiple times that the asari, turians etc. who occupy the station since hundreds or thousands of years have no idea where the keepers come from, and that vast sections of the station are still unexplored. So, of course, you place the seat of government of "galactic civilization" on something you have no idea who built it, how it looks inside and how it works! ACE IDEA!
Liara is an archeologist specializing on protheans - wouldn't examining a giant prothean space station be your number one priority? Be the number one priority of every archeologist in the galaxy actually?
No one would treat the place like that in real life.
But anyway, let's move the ending itself: I won't dwell too much on the freaky logic of the reapers itself (kill to preserve), that's bad, but what's way worse is that two of the choices presented by the "star child" don't solve "the problem" in the slightest!
If you chose to destroy the reapers (and all other synthetics) - what is stopping anyone from creating another synthetic race a bit later and start that "cycle" again?! If the cycle is inevitable, just destroying a bit of tech does absolutely nothing! It just delays it for a short while.
Star kiddo even acknowledges just that, yet STILL offers the option. BUT: If you are fine with this.. why were you reapinizing the galaxy before? Shepard entering the throne was enough?!
I mean the reapers are incomprehensible, millions of years old, a true AI etc. etc.
Yet they are so impressed by a soldier, they are willing to completely change their ancient ways because of that one human entering their secret room, despite them winning the actual war? That is way too much "humanity is special".
The reasoning is so flawed, it begs all belief.
Same with giving Shepard the control of the reapers: If another cycle begins, and cyber-god Shepard says "ah, f* it, I won't intervene this time"... then boom. The whole reaper-stuff was for nil. Same problem as with the destruction-option.
Maybe Shepard will go insane, living forever and all. The kid was a true AI, while cyber-god Shepard in large parts still has the mind of a human. There's absolutely no guarantee he will adhere "to the plan" (which is guarding against genocide I guess) for the next ten thousands of years.
Again, kid is suddenly rather careless about this whole reaper and cycle stuff.
By the way: If it's the synthetics who start the war, why don't the reapers just kill the synthetics all the time? It's also easier, since there are a lot less of them compared to organics.
So the kiddo gives three options, one of them pretty much guarantees another cycle, and the other makes it a likely possibility. Way to go, Mr. super smart AI! I thought preventing the cycle was so frigging important, and that's why you were willing for the reapers to do all the horrific thingies, so why are you pretty much suddenly fine with another "cycle" occuring? This kid needed a good old "James T. Kirk arguing with computers until self-destruction"-bitchslap.
Speaking of: What exactly "changed" by Shepard entering the chamber? Shepard is injured, and the reapers still outgun all forces in the galaxy. You can still continue with the harvest, why stop? So Shepard being a really cool guy is enough to let another cycle happen suddenly? (Offering the destruction-option)
Also, how do the reapers preserve life at all? Given how the kid explains it, they harvest whole civilizations and conserve them. As I understand it (and how Harbinger speaks of himself, that each reaper is a "nation"), every reaper should look unique (based on the each harvested species), and the minds of the harvested individuals should live inside such a machine in something like VR world ("each a nation"). Given this, the reapers should actually advertize! Living forever inside a simulated reality doesn't sound so bad... Maybe they would find volunteers. But alas, it's NOT what they are doing in the actual game AT ALL: All reapers look identical (except for the "terminator") and instead of an mind-upload, people are getting mercilessly slaughtered. So where's the "preservation" in all of this exactly?
It looks like there's just one "race" of reapers who kill everyone, that's it. There's no saving whatsoever visible.
Nitpicks:
Why is the crucible needed to destroy the reapers AT ALL? The kid says that it "controls" the reapers, yet apparently it cannot even send a retreat-signal. Ace "controlling" you have here...
Why not letting the Illusive Man control the reapers? Why is Shepard offered the chance, yet not TIM? TIM found that room before Shepard actually.
Why is the "synthesis"-option suddenly viable, but wasn't viable before? (the crucible was just "power source", I am sure, the reapers could built a huge reactor themselves) The only change seems to be that "Shepard is a cool dude". I mean technologically, the protheans, and the builders of the reapers were even more advanced than the "current" civilizations. So again, what exactly changed in this regard? Shepard may be fine with joining, but what about the rest of the galaxy? Have you conducted a poll or something? Were the protheans absolutely opposed the idea, while the majority of asari, krogan etc. are apparently all completely fine with it? To me, it looks like Shepard having implants and being a cool dude CHANGES EVERYTHING for some reason.
"Synthesis" is not exactly a fail-safe option either: Let's say that intergalactic community of hippie-borgs decide to create a completey synthetic machine race again, and those machines come to the conclusion that being completely synthetic, without pesky organic components, actually is the way to go... ooopsie.
The extended cut of the "control"-choice is incredibly stupid: Why is the crew mourning for Shepard? He became cyber-god! He's immortal and far from dead! You tell me they DON'T KNOW? But if they don't know that Shepard controls the reapers, why aren't they blowing all the reapers to smitheerens once they retreated? How do they know reapers are harmless now (and not just malfunctioning for a while), if Shepard apparently can't even send an e-mail or activate the speaker of a reaper in his cyber-god form? This is CRAZY.
What were the morality-plays in the VR-section on rannoch good for actually? It shows how enamoured the geth were with their creators at the beginning of their conflict, and how the quarians actually were the bad guys all along! That happened way before Shepard was even born. It turns star kid's explanation how synthetics will always rebel on their own against their creators completely on its head and makes the ending, and the reason for it, all the more insane. I was incredibly frustrated that there was no option to correct the record. Shepard knows how the geth/quarian war started, yet he accepts the gibberish by the kiddo without any protest.
Why stop war between synthetics and organics in the first place? The galaxy has seen horrifc destruction and genocide perpetrated by organics to organics. Why is it so much worse when synthetics are doing it to organics? If synthetics are living creatures just like organics, then what's the difference? Why is the geth/quarian war chaos, yet the krogan rebellions aren't?
Insane troll logic of the ending in relation to the past two games of the trilogy:
Mass Effect 2 and 3 go out of their way to show, that the AI lifeforms inhabiting the galaxy (except for the reapers) are actually more humane than organics. The non-heretic geth are probably the most peaceful beings in the galaxy - they only attack in self defense, were never agressive on their own, spared the life of their genocidal creators and, as Shepard notes, only fight the quarians because they keep them attacking all the time (see Shepard's speech on rannoch). Same with EDI: Within a short time frame she turned into a staunch defender of the crew and would give her live away for Shepard.
Also, the reason geth-heretics exist in the first place is due to reapers! It's like a dictator staging fake terrorist attacks to have a pretense for war.
Yet, suddenly, in the last 15 minutes of the game, we are suddenly presented with the notion that synthetics will always try to murder organics, and Shepard keeps quiet when star brat is talking this garbage? WHAT?
If that was the point - why were the last two games in the trilogy so adamant at showing the complete opposite? The reaper's motivation, and Shepard's silence, is completely insane given the established themes prior.
I know I am way late to the party, I have played Mass Effect 1 around six years ago, but only now finished ME3. I've heard the ending was terrible, but WOWser, the logic of it is absolutely CRAZY.
First of all, the whole trope of the Citadel being one huge surprise egg rears its ugly head again. That concept was already stupid in ME1, but I was able to overlook it, but in ME3 I just can't anymore: It is said multiple times that the asari, turians etc. who occupy the station since hundreds or thousands of years have no idea where the keepers come from, and that vast sections of the station are still unexplored. So, of course, you place the seat of government of "galactic civilization" on something you have no idea who built it, how it looks inside and how it works! ACE IDEA!
Liara is an archeologist specializing on protheans - wouldn't examining a giant prothean space station be your number one priority? Be the number one priority of every archeologist in the galaxy actually?
No one would treat the place like that in real life.
But anyway, let's move the ending itself: I won't dwell too much on the freaky logic of the reapers itself (kill to preserve), that's bad, but what's way worse is that two of the choices presented by the "star child" don't solve "the problem" in the slightest!
If you chose to destroy the reapers (and all other synthetics) - what is stopping anyone from creating another synthetic race a bit later and start that "cycle" again?! If the cycle is inevitable, just destroying a bit of tech does absolutely nothing! It just delays it for a short while.
Star kiddo even acknowledges just that, yet STILL offers the option. BUT: If you are fine with this.. why were you reapinizing the galaxy before? Shepard entering the throne was enough?!
I mean the reapers are incomprehensible, millions of years old, a true AI etc. etc.
Yet they are so impressed by a soldier, they are willing to completely change their ancient ways because of that one human entering their secret room, despite them winning the actual war? That is way too much "humanity is special".
The reasoning is so flawed, it begs all belief.
Same with giving Shepard the control of the reapers: If another cycle begins, and cyber-god Shepard says "ah, f* it, I won't intervene this time"... then boom. The whole reaper-stuff was for nil. Same problem as with the destruction-option.
Maybe Shepard will go insane, living forever and all. The kid was a true AI, while cyber-god Shepard in large parts still has the mind of a human. There's absolutely no guarantee he will adhere "to the plan" (which is guarding against genocide I guess) for the next ten thousands of years.
Again, kid is suddenly rather careless about this whole reaper and cycle stuff.
By the way: If it's the synthetics who start the war, why don't the reapers just kill the synthetics all the time? It's also easier, since there are a lot less of them compared to organics.
So the kiddo gives three options, one of them pretty much guarantees another cycle, and the other makes it a likely possibility. Way to go, Mr. super smart AI! I thought preventing the cycle was so frigging important, and that's why you were willing for the reapers to do all the horrific thingies, so why are you pretty much suddenly fine with another "cycle" occuring? This kid needed a good old "James T. Kirk arguing with computers until self-destruction"-bitchslap.
Speaking of: What exactly "changed" by Shepard entering the chamber? Shepard is injured, and the reapers still outgun all forces in the galaxy. You can still continue with the harvest, why stop? So Shepard being a really cool guy is enough to let another cycle happen suddenly? (Offering the destruction-option)
Also, how do the reapers preserve life at all? Given how the kid explains it, they harvest whole civilizations and conserve them. As I understand it (and how Harbinger speaks of himself, that each reaper is a "nation"), every reaper should look unique (based on the each harvested species), and the minds of the harvested individuals should live inside such a machine in something like VR world ("each a nation"). Given this, the reapers should actually advertize! Living forever inside a simulated reality doesn't sound so bad... Maybe they would find volunteers. But alas, it's NOT what they are doing in the actual game AT ALL: All reapers look identical (except for the "terminator") and instead of an mind-upload, people are getting mercilessly slaughtered. So where's the "preservation" in all of this exactly?
It looks like there's just one "race" of reapers who kill everyone, that's it. There's no saving whatsoever visible.
Nitpicks:
Why is the crucible needed to destroy the reapers AT ALL? The kid says that it "controls" the reapers, yet apparently it cannot even send a retreat-signal. Ace "controlling" you have here...
Why not letting the Illusive Man control the reapers? Why is Shepard offered the chance, yet not TIM? TIM found that room before Shepard actually.
Why is the "synthesis"-option suddenly viable, but wasn't viable before? (the crucible was just "power source", I am sure, the reapers could built a huge reactor themselves) The only change seems to be that "Shepard is a cool dude". I mean technologically, the protheans, and the builders of the reapers were even more advanced than the "current" civilizations. So again, what exactly changed in this regard? Shepard may be fine with joining, but what about the rest of the galaxy? Have you conducted a poll or something? Were the protheans absolutely opposed the idea, while the majority of asari, krogan etc. are apparently all completely fine with it? To me, it looks like Shepard having implants and being a cool dude CHANGES EVERYTHING for some reason.
"Synthesis" is not exactly a fail-safe option either: Let's say that intergalactic community of hippie-borgs decide to create a completey synthetic machine race again, and those machines come to the conclusion that being completely synthetic, without pesky organic components, actually is the way to go... ooopsie.
The extended cut of the "control"-choice is incredibly stupid: Why is the crew mourning for Shepard? He became cyber-god! He's immortal and far from dead! You tell me they DON'T KNOW? But if they don't know that Shepard controls the reapers, why aren't they blowing all the reapers to smitheerens once they retreated? How do they know reapers are harmless now (and not just malfunctioning for a while), if Shepard apparently can't even send an e-mail or activate the speaker of a reaper in his cyber-god form? This is CRAZY.
What were the morality-plays in the VR-section on rannoch good for actually? It shows how enamoured the geth were with their creators at the beginning of their conflict, and how the quarians actually were the bad guys all along! That happened way before Shepard was even born. It turns star kid's explanation how synthetics will always rebel on their own against their creators completely on its head and makes the ending, and the reason for it, all the more insane. I was incredibly frustrated that there was no option to correct the record. Shepard knows how the geth/quarian war started, yet he accepts the gibberish by the kiddo without any protest.
Why stop war between synthetics and organics in the first place? The galaxy has seen horrifc destruction and genocide perpetrated by organics to organics. Why is it so much worse when synthetics are doing it to organics? If synthetics are living creatures just like organics, then what's the difference? Why is the geth/quarian war chaos, yet the krogan rebellions aren't?
Insane troll logic of the ending in relation to the past two games of the trilogy:
Mass Effect 2 and 3 go out of their way to show, that the AI lifeforms inhabiting the galaxy (except for the reapers) are actually more humane than organics. The non-heretic geth are probably the most peaceful beings in the galaxy - they only attack in self defense, were never agressive on their own, spared the life of their genocidal creators and, as Shepard notes, only fight the quarians because they keep them attacking all the time (see Shepard's speech on rannoch). Same with EDI: Within a short time frame she turned into a staunch defender of the crew and would give her live away for Shepard.
Also, the reason geth-heretics exist in the first place is due to reapers! It's like a dictator staging fake terrorist attacks to have a pretense for war.
Yet, suddenly, in the last 15 minutes of the game, we are suddenly presented with the notion that synthetics will always try to murder organics, and Shepard keeps quiet when star brat is talking this garbage? WHAT?
If that was the point - why were the last two games in the trilogy so adamant at showing the complete opposite? The reaper's motivation, and Shepard's silence, is completely insane given the established themes prior.
