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Post by Basquemercat117 on Sept 20, 2018 20:44:13 GMT
SO in star wars they have Pablo Hildalgo and the star wars story group that answer any official questions when it comes to the star wars story. Is there any equivalent to that for Mass Effect from bioware.
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Post by dmc1001 on Sept 21, 2018 3:40:31 GMT
Not to my knowledge. The mass effect wiki is fan-made. I think the closest thing to lore are the codexes, but even they aren't necessarily consistent from game to game.
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Post by aoibhealfae on Sept 21, 2018 7:22:27 GMT
MEA codexes is very inconsistent to the trilogy especially regarding Krogan biology. (They wouldn't need all the complicated science for genophage if the females can lay eggs. smh)
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 2, 2018 21:54:20 GMT
Chris L'Etoile and clearly Drew K from reading Revelation and his other novels... but they left.
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Post by dmc1001 on Oct 13, 2018 16:09:13 GMT
The whole thing of lore is just silly to them. They toss out anything that gets in the way of the story they want to tell. *cough*Cerberus*cough*
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Post by sil on Oct 15, 2018 11:06:19 GMT
The whole thing of lore is just silly to them. They toss out anything that gets in the way of the story they want to tell. *cough*Cerberus*cough* Which is sad. Lore should not be viewed as a chain to hold you back, but a guide to find creative ways to push a story forward.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 16, 2018 17:33:05 GMT
The whole thing of lore is just silly to them. They toss out anything that gets in the way of the story they want to tell. *cough*Cerberus*cough* Which is sad. Lore should not be viewed as a chain to hold you back, but a guide to find creative ways to push a story forward. Exactly! I so miss Chris L'Etoille, he did great things in ME1. It's basically been going downhill from there. There was an interview with Mac Walters shortly afterthe release of ME3, where he said that he uses the fan wiki to look stuff up. I think he meant it as a compliment to the wiki guys (who are fantastic, no doubt) but I find it just sad that they never cared enough to have their own lore database. I mean come on, it's their IP after all.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 18, 2018 1:07:20 GMT
Which is sad. Lore should not be viewed as a chain to hold you back, but a guide to find creative ways to push a story forward. Exactly! I so miss Chris L'Etoille, he did great things in ME1. It's basically been going downhill from there. There was an interview with Mac Walters shortly afterthe release of ME3, where he said that he uses the fan wiki to look stuff up. I think he meant it as a compliment to the wiki guys (who are fantastic, no doubt) but I find it just sad that they never cared enough to have their own lore database. I mean come on, it's their IP after all.
also note that while L'Etoile was emplyed before the BioWare company culture shifted towards the more bureaucratic EA culture his successor in 3 Chris Hepler would describe his task as "rationalizing gameplay decisions with science and fact". BioWare not only went away from using lore as the building block. They shifted from story -> game design as a pre-planning process to 'what we want to play' -> 'how we explain that gameplay with story and lore'. And on the upside gameplay is generally way more fun. I can just sit back and turn my brain off. Now, about that downside...
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 19, 2018 17:46:20 GMT
I can just sit back and turn my brain off. Well, I find that rather difficult.
I mean, I don't even disagree with the idea that gameplay in many cases has to dictate lore. That's fine. For example, while I find that change from internal heat sinks to thermal clips rather strange in the lore aspect, I completely get why they did it and there is an argument to be made that that was worth it (though I probably wouldn't have put ammo everywhere on Jacob's LM planet ).. There are other cases, where things are debatable, like IMO the dominate or reave powers but I just don't use them and that's that, so no biggie. I am also not playing any MP, so that helps.
The problem I really have is that in most cases where lore is messed up in the ME series, it has nothing to do with gameplay. What's it got to do with gameplay that Cerberus has to shift roles in between all the games and do a whole bunch of things that make absolutely no sense at all? What does it have to do with gameplay that the reapers are way out in dark space one minute, then fly into the galaxy the next? What does it have to do with gameplay that there was something like ODSY drives and an Andromeda Initiative all along?
Those and many others are pure story fuck-ups, that have no baring on the game mechanics and in my estimation are entirely due to the hubris of some of the writers wanting to push their "rule of cool" ideas through in the plot without sparing the time to just think about it for 2 minutes.
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Post by burningcherry on Oct 19, 2018 19:24:15 GMT
What does it have to do with gameplay that the reapers are way out in dark space one minute, then fly into the galaxy the next? *Half a year later. What does it have to do with gameplay that there was something like ODSY drives [...]? Weren't they a novel thing?
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 19, 2018 20:08:43 GMT
What does it have to do with gameplay that the reapers are way out in dark space one minute, then fly into the galaxy the next? *Half a year later. Nope, Arrival takes place right after the ME3 ending as far as I am aware. Hell, you can even play it before the ending (it even has a contingency in the final conversation for this, so the devs definitely meant you to be able to do it) and then, after the Suicide Mission, you see the Reapers back out in dark space again. WTF was up with that? They started in 2186 (before ME3) at which time, they were already building the Arks and the Nexus for over 10 years. Yet we never heard of this massive change in technology before. Why? Because the authors shoved it in without thinking.
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Post by sil on Oct 19, 2018 21:04:03 GMT
Nope, Arrival takes place right after the ME3 ending as far as I am aware. Hell, you can even play it before the ending (it even has a contingency in the final conversation for this, so the devs definitely meant you to be able to do it) and then, after the Suicide Mission, you see the Reapers back out in dark space again. WTF was up with that? They started in 2186 (before ME3) at which time, they were already building the Arks and the Nexus for over 10 years. Yet we never heard of this massive change in technology before. Why? Because the authors shoved it in without thinking. They should've probably made the ODSY Drive seem like a pipe dream or vapourware, a promised solution to the intergalaxy travel issue that the Initiative hid away from revealing to the galaxy, thus making everyone think they were bullshitting. Either that or just decided that Andromeda had Mass Relays too and use some unique Relay to send them there, damaging it in the process. Or... well, they could've done a lot of things, but they didn't. At one point there were mentions of things called phase gates linked to the Remnant. Might have been better if it had turned out there were remnant ruins in the MW and that's where the tech for the drive (and the ambition to go to Andromeda) came from.
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Post by burningcherry on Oct 19, 2018 21:08:36 GMT
Nope, Arrival takes place right after the ME3 ending as far as I am aware. Hell, you can even play it before the ending (it even has a contingency in the final conversation for this, so the devs definitely meant you to be able to do it) and then, after the Suicide Mission, you see the Reapers back out in dark space again. WTF was up with that? Lack of communication between devs. But no matter how do you play ME2, it's half a year since the start of their travel until they're at the edges of the galaxy. I'll need a source on those 10 years, but anyways this stuff wasn't ever used before.
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Post by Link"Guess"ski on Oct 20, 2018 0:59:37 GMT
I can just sit back and turn my brain off. Well, I find that rather difficult.
I mean, I don't even disagree with the idea that gameplay in many cases has to dictate lore. That's fine. For example, while I find that change from internal heat sinks to thermal clips rather strange in the lore aspect, I completely get why they did it and there is an argument to be made that that was worth it (though I probably wouldn't have put ammo everywhere on Jacob's LM planet ).. There are other cases, where things are debatable, like IMO the dominate or reave powers but I just don't use them and that's that, so no biggie. I am also not playing any MP, so that helps.
The problem I really have is that in most cases where lore is messed up in the ME series, it has nothing to do with gameplay. What's it got to do with gameplay that Cerberus has to shift roles in between all the games and do a whole bunch of things that make absolutely no sense at all? What does it have to do with gameplay that the reapers are way out in dark space one minute, then fly into the galaxy the next? What does it have to do with gameplay that there was something like ODSY drives and an Andromeda Initiative all along?
Those and many others are pure story fuck-ups, that have no baring on the game mechanics and in my estimation are entirely due to the hubris of some of the writers wanting to push their "rule of cool" ideas through in the plot without sparing the time to just think about it for 2 minutes.
I think the underlying problem was always EA. I like Mike Gamble for example but I don't think he would've been hired if it wasn't for the EA aquisition and he has a pretty integral role as the primary producer but the issue is he pushes for "cool" at almost every turn. Thankfully he's a smart guy and it seems he understands the story too but one of the Stormwaltz posts claimed that the lore-breaking additions like not wearing helmets in space in ME2 and probably also the need to "reload a gun with a clip" (my guess) came from the producer allowing the non-writing staff to do what they felt like. I don't know how BioWare operated back when they were "BioWare Corp" and people should also remember that in ME1 they had Microsoft as publishers who are also pretty influential on a studio-level same as EA but in a different kind of way. However, I think BioWare corp did not rely as much on producers and middle-men as EA does and that's why you get so much more rule of cool.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 20, 2018 3:19:28 GMT
Nope, Arrival takes place right after the ME3 ending as far as I am aware. Hell, you can even play it before the ending (it even has a contingency in the final conversation for this, so the devs definitely meant you to be able to do it) and then, after the Suicide Mission, you see the Reapers back out in dark space again. WTF was up with that? Lack of communication between devs. But no matter how do you play ME2, it's half a year since the start of their travel until they're at the edges of the galaxy. I'll need a source on those 10 years, but anyways this stuff wasn't ever used before. They need half a year from the alpha relay to the next one. Arrival is at the very best shortly afte the ME2 ending, when we see them REALLY far out (so far, you can get a panorama shot of the entire milky way, i.e. hundreds of thousands of light years). 2) Reference. Very first sentence: "founded 2176".
@link: I don't know if it's the companies or just the people that changed. Hard to say IMO.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2018 17:00:17 GMT
Lack of communication between devs. But no matter how do you play ME2, it's half a year since the start of their travel until they're at the edges of the galaxy. I'll need a source on those 10 years, but anyways this stuff wasn't ever used before. They need half a year from the alpha relay to the next one. Arrival is at the very best shortly afte the ME2 ending, when we see them REALLY far out (so far, you can get a panorama shot of the entire milky way, i.e. hundreds of thousands of light years). 2) Reference. Very first sentence: "founded 2176".
@link: I don't know if it's the companies or just the people that changed. Hard to say IMO.
How can Arrival even be after the ME2 ending in all cases, when one can do at any point after going to Horizon? If done right after Horizon, can we really say how long would it take for Shepard to recruit all the remaining members of the team, investigate the Collector Ship, obtain the loyalty of all members of the team, and then go through the Omega 4 Relay and defeat the collectors and then eventually return to earth. All we know is that he/she was incarcerated for 6 months after returning to earth. Because it's an RPG and there is no accounting in the game for the time needed by Shepard to accomplish the missions, the timeline is really very sketchy at best.
If, for example, the player rushes through the Omega 4 relay with the minimum requirements to get there and survive... and then decides to putsy around the galaxy and complete all the side missions they didn't do before going through the relay and then do Arrival at the very last, the timing for Arrival could actually even be quite a long while after the end of ME2.
I don't think it's either the companies or the people. It's an issue built right into a long RPG where the design is to allow the player to do things in a different order. The more they allow the players to mix up the order of events inside the story, the more difficult it is to try to imply a specific timeline between even the key events. When the story laps over 3 games, it's even harder. Personally, I find the whole timeline for the Reapers traveling from "dark space" to a galaxy edge a completely unrealistic premise since the edge of a galaxy is not a solid edge/wall. How far away are the reapers from the nearest relay depends on how far out into dark space they are and in what direction from the galaxy they happen to be... As Mordin would say: "Too many variables."
If "dark space" is a dimension and not a "place" outside the galaxy, then any notion of time or space collapses. Therefore, any notion of the Reapers having to "travel" a set time through dark space also collapses when what we can affect are only the relays within the Milky Way dimension. We can't destroy whatever "gate" to our dimension the Reapers have in their dimension. They shouldn't have to travel anywhere within their dimension. They should, I would think, just have to dial their "gate" into a new relay within the Milky Way. Even if they can't dial the gates into different gates, we still would have no idea how close the various gates in their dimension would be to each other. We don't know how many gates they might have either. We know nothing about their dimension. We also can't know how many relays the Milky Way has that connect to "dark space" since we have, by all accounts, not even explored 1% of the galaxy. Similarly, we can't know how many other relays within the Milky Way are connected to those relays conected to dark space, so we can't possibly know how far the Reapers would even have to travel at FTL within our galaxy to reach a relay that would instantaneously put them within striking distance of any of the settled worlds in the Milky Way. The premise was flawed from the start in ME1 and the problems just compounded on themselves as the series progressed.
Another example (all within ME1): Armistice Day. How can Shepard have a drink with Ashley on Armistice Day and then complete the two remaining main world missions and, potentially, all the other UNC missions and still arrive back on the Citadel to find a protest underway that identifies it as still being Armistice Day?
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 21, 2018 1:45:52 GMT
I can just sit back and turn my brain off.
What does it have to do with gameplay that there was something like ODSY drives and an Andromeda Initiative all along?
Those and many others are pure story fuck-ups, that have no baring on the game mechanics and in my estimation are entirely due to the hubris of some of the writers wanting to push their "rule of cool" ideas through in the plot without sparing the time to just think about it for 2 minutes.
What do the ODSY drives actually fuck up, exactly? I keep hearing this one, but nobody ever points to anything that would have been different within the trilogy timeframe if such drives had been invented when ME:A says they were.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 21, 2018 1:54:17 GMT
If "dark space" is a dimension and not a "place" outside the galaxy, then any notion of time or space collapses. Therefore, any notion of the Reapers having to "travel" a set time through dark space also collapses when what we can affect are only the relays within the Milky Way dimension. We can't destroy whatever "gate" to our dimension the Reapers have in their dimension. They shouldn't have to travel anywhere within their dimension. They should, I would think, just have to dial their "gate" into a new relay within the Milky Way. Even if they can't dial the gates into different gates, we still would have no idea how close the various gates in their dimension would be to each other. We don't know how many gates they might have either. We know nothing about their dimension. We also can't know how many relays the Milky Way has that connect to "dark space" since we have, by all accounts, not even explored 1% of the galaxy. Similarly, we can't know how many other relays within the Milky Way are connected to those relays conected to dark space, so we can't possibly know how far the Reapers would even have to travel at FTL within our galaxy to reach a relay that would instantaneously put them within striking distance of any of the settled worlds in the Milky Way. The premise was flawed from the start in ME1 and the problems just compounded on themselves as the series progressed.
As long as we're talking flawed premises, the whole concept of having to leave the galaxy in order to stay hidden is borderline idiotic. OK, our chimp brains can't intuitively grasp the scale of interstellar space, but that's why you use thinking rather than instinct.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 21, 2018 3:23:47 GMT
If "dark space" is a dimension and not a "place" outside the galaxy, then any notion of time or space collapses. Therefore, any notion of the Reapers having to "travel" a set time through dark space also collapses when what we can affect are only the relays within the Milky Way dimension. We can't destroy whatever "gate" to our dimension the Reapers have in their dimension. They shouldn't have to travel anywhere within their dimension. They should, I would think, just have to dial their "gate" into a new relay within the Milky Way. Even if they can't dial the gates into different gates, we still would have no idea how close the various gates in their dimension would be to each other. We don't know how many gates they might have either. We know nothing about their dimension. We also can't know how many relays the Milky Way has that connect to "dark space" since we have, by all accounts, not even explored 1% of the galaxy. Similarly, we can't know how many other relays within the Milky Way are connected to those relays conected to dark space, so we can't possibly know how far the Reapers would even have to travel at FTL within our galaxy to reach a relay that would instantaneously put them within striking distance of any of the settled worlds in the Milky Way. The premise was flawed from the start in ME1 and the problems just compounded on themselves as the series progressed.
As long as we're talking flawed premises, the whole concept of having to leave the galaxy in order to stay hidden is borderline idiotic. OK, our chimp brains can't intuitively grasp the scale of interstellar space, but that's why you use thinking rather than instinct. Alright, if dark space is merely the space between already explored areas within the galaxy (neither another dimension nor the space outside the apparent edges of the galaxy), Shepard and others would still never know or even be able to estimate how long it would take to reach the next available relay to enter, say, known space, since there could always be an available relay in the 99% of the galaxy that the ME MW species haven't discovered yet... and the whole issue would still be compounded by the more general issue of how the passage of time is just simply not able to be represented in a game that purports to allow the player to juggle massive pieces of the story around in different sequences.
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Post by SwobyJ on Oct 22, 2018 2:33:10 GMT
What does it have to do with gameplay that there was something like ODSY drives and an Andromeda Initiative all along?
Those and many others are pure story fuck-ups, that have no baring on the game mechanics and in my estimation are entirely due to the hubris of some of the writers wanting to push their "rule of cool" ideas through in the plot without sparing the time to just think about it for 2 minutes.
What do the ODSY drives actually fuck up, exactly? I keep hearing this one, but nobody ever points to anything that would have been different within the trilogy timeframe if such drives had been invented when ME:A says they were. I don't know really, myself. The only big complaint I have about the MEA is that it's the biggest criminal of the series yet, of deciding to just add new things without previous reference, hint, or easy narrative room. But the stuff itself is basically within bounds. But I'm also not a physics nerd that could pick everything apart. But I also think anyone being a *total* physics nerd about Mass Effect, even the 'HARD SCIFI' ME1, needs to give their head a shake. It was also space opera and still retains elements of that. Anyway, I think they made enough narrative room, even if barely. Andromeda Initiative? Sorry but 100k people of a civilized population of trillions leaving on a fool's run to another galaxy is, while ridiculous not to note in previous material (thus my comments previous), quite fine to happen. It's not that many ships, they're not actually that big, and building them is ambitious but something easily that could have been only on the newsfeed for Shepard because he never went to Earth ME1-ME2. We also should take things like Cerberus Network News as a hint that Bioware CAN allow lots of other things to happen in this galaxy that aren't only Shepard saving it. Hey maybe an asari world made a special discovery that changes the understanding of biotics as we know it, to the point of crazy Green Lantern powers? Maybe! Maybe! But then the Reapers attack . Okay, so now what? Well a future game could totally make this happen, 'retcon'. This is stuff that depending on circumstances, would indeed just be the newsfeed for almost everyone in the galaxy. ODSY drives? Yeah they're problematic, but not very. 1) They're not that super special. Technically, Bioware could go 'prototype' about anything, but it would surely be too much to say there's a drive that could cross galaxies within weeks or whatever. But this wasn't weeks, but centuries. I'm aware people still did the math and projected it as straining the lore. Cool, but I don't care. Sometimes its actually okay to have a prototype drive that can successfully do a long voyage. 2) The Ai is still mysterious. We don't fully know what supplies it, where they get all their tech and insights from, and it appears most to almost all of its participants are in the dark about that as well, with Jien as the PR face of it all. I am and always have been willing to give Bioware multiple games to flesh this matter out, prospectively including the development of the ODSY. 3) Generally speaking, most of the galaxy in their daily lives would not be fixated to the news that a long distance drive is being tested (and that's what Ai worryingly was - a test of many working-model experiments). It would be very meaningful to future decades and centuries of galactic development, but otherwise rather specialized news. Now, could the galaxy have shuttled/arked people out during the invasion? No. The invasion was months until the end (less than a year?) and there's no intention to use resources that could go war/Crucible towards making a newly working Ark, especially as the point is the Ai was secretive about their level of development (with the SAM stuff as one hint about that). All that happened was that the Liara line of 'it could be easy for a ship to get lost out there' in ME3 to have a potentially new meaning; that she's not just hoping for a stray ship of many people to repopulate somewhere away from the Reapers, nor expressing a basic escapism before some final battle, but she could be having hope that at least one Ark to find a home for the organics of the galaxy. Shepard may be in our control 99%+ of the time, but in-universe he sleeps (without nightmare?), reads reports, is updated on news, etc. While it may be jarring to us players, it wouldn't actually be out of bounds that Shepard scrolled through ANN and learned of the Ai and that's it. "But it changes the whole context of the RP!" - Bioware hasn't top prioritized that in forever.
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
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Post by SwobyJ on Oct 22, 2018 2:37:10 GMT
To be fair, while I agree that stuff about the Reapers in dark space seemed like throwaway details of them that may crumble at scrutiny, nothing stops Bioware from passively to actively elaborating aspects of the Reapers in future call-outs.
Oh they came from 'dark space', how mysterious! And broken.
But what if they actually have a location there. And that location is epic. Or useful. Or facilitates some other storyline.
Well now we have a non-broken reason for their dark space retreat.
That is if Bioware does the Reapers at all again - but they did in MEA (Ryder Family questline counts!).
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Post by Deleted on Oct 22, 2018 14:14:51 GMT
To be fair, while I agree that stuff about the Reapers in dark space seemed like throwaway details of them that may crumble at scrutiny, nothing stops Bioware from passively to actively elaborating aspects of the Reapers in future call-outs. Oh they came from 'dark space', how mysterious! And broken. But what if they actually have a location there. And that location is epic. Or useful. Or facilitates some other storyline. Well now we have a non-broken reason for their dark space retreat. That is if Bioware does the Reapers at all again - but they did in MEA (Ryder Family questline counts!). I wouldn't go so far as to say "non-broken"... "patched" or "retconned" I buy into; and yes, they could do it that way. It's up to them.
All I was saying was that the premise is currently flawed. The timeline doesn't fit and really can't fit because the player can switch the order of events around quite a bit and has to basically ignore the amount of time it would take Shepard to logically accomplish what he does over the course of one game, let alone all three. It's not really logically possible for Shepard to fight multiple battles in multiple quadrants of an entire galaxy in a single day even with ME relays... which, because of the two references to Armistice Day in ME1, is what is being suggested he/she did. Furthermore, there is no way currently presented in the game for the in game NPCs to have known or even estimated how much time it would take the reapers to reroute themselves once Sovereign's initial plan was foiled or after the Alpha Relay in Arrival was destroyed. They have no way of knowing or finding out even if or how many other Alpha-like relays exist for the Reapers to use. That's a very basic writing error - having in-story characters provide information they have no way of knowing.
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Post by AnDromedary on Oct 23, 2018 18:09:58 GMT
A few points here: - The Armistice Day issue in ME1 is one of the few absolute logical fallacies in ME1. It simply is a writing mistake because we know ME1 takes place entirely in 2183 (we know that it starts in that year, we know that ME2 takes place in 2185 and Avina tells us exactly hw long we were not on the Citadel (over 2 years), so ME1 had to end before the end of 2183 as well. - While the reapers plan with the Citadel Relay was probably idiotic (because betting everything on one single reaper, i.e. Sovereign was), I don't really see the general problem with the premise as UpUpAgain describes it. For the premise, it is not necessary for Shepard and collegues to know any of the stuff the he brings up. The reapers using whatever plan they are using is on them. And keep in mind, even the plan as we "knew" it in ME1 was just Vigil's speculation on what the protheans on Illos thought the reapers were doing. It was all inferred, nothing was nailed down at that point. There were plenty of possibilities to make a great storyline out of it at the end of ME1. - The ODSY drive is a huge problem because it defeats the entire setup of the ME Milky Way. In most of ME1/2/3, going outside of the clusters surrounding the relays is a huge problem due to the lack of discharge sites. That's why the reapers are such a big threat in the first place. They control the relay network, they have access to it if their invasion goes according to plan and you can't just hide anywhere in the Milky Way. With the ODSY drive being a thing, that limitation falls away completely and the organics could just hide anywhere. - The second question is: Do the reapers have/know about ODSY drives as well? If no, we'd have had a massive advantage in the war and one would have to ask the question "why the hell doesn't the billion year old race have the tech that a bunch of cyclists came up with within a few centuries or less?" If so, the entire reason d'etre of the reapers falls apart because travel between galaxies is now possible. Inconvenient, sure but possible. So if the premise of the catalyst is that without the reaper cycles, synthetic dominance is inevitable, he must have considered that even if the reapers keep the cycles up in our galaxy, in another, synthetics would take over, evolve and eventually come to us. As soon as the Milky Way is no longer an isolated system, the reaper's reasoning becomes even more stupid than it was in the first place. That's one reason (by far not the only one) why Andromeda was such a messy retcon and therefore one more good example of why BioWare really would have done well to have at least one dedicated lore person on the team. Mac Walters certainly didn't give a shit.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2018 11:59:07 GMT
A few points here: - The Armistice Day issue in ME1 is one of the few absolute logical fallacies in ME1. It simply is a writing mistake because we know ME1 takes place entirely in 2183 (we know that it starts in that year, we know that ME2 takes place in 2185 and Avina tells us exactly hw long we were not on the Citadel (over 2 years), so ME1 had to end before the end of 2183 as well. - While the reapers plan with the Citadel Relay was probably idiotic (because betting everything on one single reaper, i.e. Sovereign was), I don't really see the general problem with the premise as UpUpAgain describes it. For the premise, it is not necessary for Shepard and collegues to know any of the stuff the he brings up. The reapers using whatever plan they are using is on them. And keep in mind, even the plan as we "knew" it in ME1 was just Vigil's speculation on what the protheans on Illos thought the reapers were doing. It was all inferred, nothing was nailed down at that point. There were plenty of possibilities to make a great storyline out of it at the end of ME1. - The ODSY drive is a huge problem because it defeats the entire setup of the ME Milky Way. In most of ME1/2/3, going outside of the clusters surrounding the relays is a huge problem due to the lack of discharge sites. That's why the reapers are such a big threat in the first place. They control the relay network, they have access to it if their invasion goes according to plan and you can't just hide anywhere in the Milky Way. With the ODSY drive being a thing, that limitation falls away completely and the organics could just hide anywhere. - The second question is: Do the reapers have/know about ODSY drives as well? If no, we'd have had a massive advantage in the war and one would have to ask the question "why the hell doesn't the billion year old race have the tech that a bunch of cyclists came up with within a few centuries or less?" If so, the entire reason d'etre of the reapers falls apart because travel between galaxies is now possible. Inconvenient, sure but possible. So if the premise of the catalyst is that without the reaper cycles, synthetic dominance is inevitable, he must have considered that even if the reapers keep the cycles up in our galaxy, in another, synthetics would take over, evolve and eventually come to us. As soon as the Milky Way is no longer an isolated system, the reaper's reasoning becomes even more stupid than it was in the first place. That's one reason (by far not the only one) why Andromeda was such a messy retcon and therefore one more good example of why BioWare really would have done well to have at least one dedicated lore person on the team. Mac Walters certainly didn't give a shit. Even if one removes the Armistice Day reference, there is still a problem with the speed at which time elapses in the ME Universe. The difference between the entirety of ME1 taking place over the entire year of 2183 or taking place over a few days or even a month within 2183 is huge. Again, no one in the ME Universe knows anything about dark space nor do they know anything about how fast Reapers can travel while in dark space nor do they know what the actual real requirements are for the Reapers to actually leave dark space and enter the known Milky Way space. What we are given in ME1 is that the Protheans had only theories. Then, all of a sudden in ME2, Kenson somehow magically knows all of that. If she knows it because she's been indoctrinated, this begs the question of why she would truthfully tell Shepard about it. There is no indication in game that the Reapers impart a bunch of knowledge about the nature of dark space into their indoctrinated victims. Saren did not appear to have that sort of insight. Benezia didn't. Even TIM didn't. The lore clearly indicates, in fact, that indoctrinated subjects become less and less capable... not more and more aware of obscure principles within the galaxy.
The signal does tell her that they Reapers will be at that Relay in two days from whatever day within the entire back 3/4 of the ME2 game Shepard decides to start the DLC; but she has no idea about anything within the space they are coming from. She has no idea how many there are or whether they are simultaneously approaching other relays in the 99% unexplored portions of the MW galaxy.
There is still an underlying problem throughout the series with determining how much time elapses between when the player does the Arrival DLC and the end of ME2 and the player option of doing the Arrival DLC several quests before they do the SM or several quests after they do the SM. I disagree that Armistice Day is the only time-related problem here.
I wasn't even talking about the ODSY or anything to do with Andromeda... so, I'll just let you ramble on about that one. The duration for the journey is stated - 634 years, but the issue of time essentially ceases to elapse once we start the game itself persists. We chase shuttle all over the cluster in the Tempest with no consideration for the relative speed capabilities of either. We can postpone doing something "urgent" for many, many quests. Are those quests taking hours, days, or even months to complete? We don't really know.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 24, 2018 12:25:09 GMT
When talking with Tali on the Citadel, in ME3, she will say its been exactly 3 years since she was attacked by assassins just before meeting Shepard. So with 24.5 months with Shepard being dead, 6 months under house arrest, there's about 5.5 months to complete ME1, ME2 and about half of ME3.
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