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Post by Iddy on Sept 27, 2018 14:26:38 GMT
I mean the fact that the HoF can defeat Flemeth. She beat Loghain in 5 seconds and even the legendary King Maric didn't dare to challenge her. He was completely frightened by her display of power. The Warden, though?
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2018 14:28:05 GMT
Warden also defeats Loghain in 5 seconds. Good point though.
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Post by Noxluxe on Oct 7, 2018 21:29:17 GMT
Heh, that's an interesting perspective. I doubt it though. At that point in the story, Loghain is pretty much just a hardened teenager with very little of his later combat and military expertise, and Maric is barely that. They're both tired and out of sorts, and have none of the legendary equipment available to the HoF at the point in the game where s/he might challenge Flemeth and win.
And I don't know about you, but I've certainly never tried to solo Flemeth, or even go at her 2v1. It seems perfectly plausible that Flemeth would catch young Loghain and Maric off-guard and have them at her mercy, while an experienced and determined band of well-coordinated warriors with weapons and armor worth a fortune might take her down after a drawn-out fight.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 12, 2018 4:30:28 GMT
Or Flemeth may have deliberately let the Warden win. She knew that Morrigan would try to have her killed and even by fall of Lothering had taken steps to ensure her own survival, by giving her amulet to Hawke to resurrect her at Sundermount. It might have benefited her to let everyone think she was "dead" (if only temporarily as Morrigan suspected), as it allowed her to slip back into the shadows and continue on with her plans in secret.
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Post by Iddy on Oct 12, 2018 10:52:45 GMT
Or Flemeth may have deliberately let the Warden win. She knew that Morrigan would try to have her killed and even by fall of Lothering had taken steps to ensure her own survival, by giving her amulet to Hawke to resurrect her at Sundermount. It might have benefited her to let everyone think she was "dead" (if only temporarily as Morrigan suspected), as it allowed her to slip back into the shadows and continue on with her plans in secret. If that's the case, why would she try to convince the Warden not to fight her?
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Post by melbella on Oct 13, 2018 1:07:48 GMT
Or Flemeth may have deliberately let the Warden win. She knew that Morrigan would try to have her killed and even by fall of Lothering had taken steps to ensure her own survival, by giving her amulet to Hawke to resurrect her at Sundermount. It might have benefited her to let everyone think she was "dead" (if only temporarily as Morrigan suspected), as it allowed her to slip back into the shadows and continue on with her plans in secret. If that's the case, why would she try to convince the Warden not to fight her?
So she didn't accidentally kill or hurt the Warden?
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Post by Iddy on Oct 13, 2018 2:19:07 GMT
If that's the case, why would she try to convince the Warden not to fight her?
So she didn't accidentally kill or hurt the Warden?
That would contradict Sifr's theory that Flemeth wanted to temporarily die and lay low.
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Post by Sharable Horizon on Oct 13, 2018 2:21:33 GMT
Or just to give good old diplomacy a chance - niceness before knives after all! Edit: Ninja’d. She knew that the fight was coming, but she only needed people to believe she was dead. If she could manage that without the whole actually dying part, I’m sure she would have preferred that option.
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Post by Sifr on Oct 14, 2018 4:39:04 GMT
So she didn't accidentally kill or hurt the Warden?
That would contradict Sifr's theory that Flemeth wanted to temporarily die and lay low. Why not both? Flemeth strikes me as someone who has contingencies for everything.
Her plan may have always been to leave Ferelden and lie low, getting into a fight with the Warden was merely a convenient way to fake her death that she took advantage of.
Even if she walked way peacefully without a fight, she might have intended to eventually discard that vessel anyway? Perhaps she transferred most of herself (and Mythal) into the amulet intending to resurrect on Sundermount, leaving behind her former vessel to tidy up any loose ends and wait to see if the Warden came for her?
When you break down all the various outcomes, she seems to win either way.
Don't fight the Warden. She gets to walk away. Flemeth wins. Fight the Warden and lose. She'll be resurrected anyway. Flemeth wins.
Don't fight the Warden. She keeps the Warden alive to end the Blight. Flemeth wins. Don't fight the Warden. She keeps any male Wardens alive to sire the OGB. Flemeth wins.
Fight the Warden and lose. She keeps the Warden alive to end the Blight. Flemeth wins. Fight the Warden and lose. She keeps any male Wardens alive to sire the OGB. Flemeth wins.
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Post by Quickpaw on Oct 14, 2018 19:08:33 GMT
I'm curious how it works if the Warden DOESN'T kill Flemeth, but she gets resurrected by Hawke anyway... Does that mean there are TWO Flemeths walking around, or does she simply transfer the entirety of her essence to the Sundermount fragment and abandon the Ferelden shell?
(Granted its possible to kill or spare her in Origins since they didn't know the game would be a franchise; they thought it would be their swan song and allowed the endings to swing in wildly different ways... which they then had to ax most of them for DAII and Inquisition's sake which rubbed a LOT of people the wrong way, but wouldn't have been able to avoid.)
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Post by NotN7 on Oct 14, 2018 22:23:47 GMT
I'm curious how it works if the Warden DOESN'T kill Flemeth, but she gets resurrected by Hawke anyway... Does that mean there are TWO Flemeths walking around, or does she simply transfer the entirety of her essence to the Sundermount fragment and abandon the Ferelden shell? (Granted its possible to kill or spare her in Origins since they didn't know the game would be a franchise; they thought it would be their swan song and allowed the endings to swing in wildly different ways... which they then had to ax most of them for DAII and Inquisition's sake which rubbed a LOT of people the wrong way, but wouldn't have been able to avoid.) From what I understand Flemeth had 2 plans depending on what you did in Origins, kill her medallion lets her live, darkspawn is breaching her magic that hides the hut so again medallion, either way Hawke gets the mission.
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Post by Blaze on Oct 17, 2018 5:59:26 GMT
okay come on, flemeth didn't go all out on the warden... all she did was turn into a dragon, sure dragon are hard to kill, but that's just part of her power, she is at least as strong as fen'harel, and he can turn people into stone...
see, flemeth needed the warden alive, to end the blight. that's why she saved them in the first place. it would look suspicious if she made it too easy, not to mention the warden needs to slay a dragon to end it anyway, so it's good practice. she even offered an alternative that doesn't involve fighting, which make it easier for both parties.
i also suspect, and that's a pure speculation on my part, that she actually wanted morrigan to have the grimoire. i mean, she knew morrigan would come for it, the easiest way was to take the grimoire and leave, but she chose to stay and wait. as she told hawke: "i had an apointment to keep"
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