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Elvis Has Left The Building
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Oct 28, 2018 0:17:27 GMT
Since "morally good" and "best ending" are purely subjective terms, I think this discussion is, if not meaningless, at least poorly framed.
I don't consider my character to be in any way responsible for most long-term outcomes. I do what I consider to be morally right in that moment. It's not my fault if other characters fuck it up later.
The only thing I ask is that there be a logical flow of action > consequence.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 28, 2018 0:34:28 GMT
It was kinda obvious to me, blue good red bad. But yeah o see your point. The fights however needed explanation. That if you triggered it too soon you couldn't solve it. It was a bit of a pain but I just made sure not to trigger it early. First playthrough though I knew because I had the guide. I've never had that problem. The earlier the fight is triggered, the better.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 28, 2018 23:48:40 GMT
Eh first you have to make the questions actually matter. At least in original trilogy most options had very little difference in what happened. At best it only adds a new cut scene to watch or a few more lines of dialogue but never effects the game beyond that. What does morality mean when there are no wrong answers to a test?
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 29, 2018 1:02:36 GMT
What does changing gameplay have to do with the answers being right or wrong?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 29, 2018 2:43:35 GMT
What does changing gameplay have to do with the answers being right or wrong? If it doesn't have an effect then if the answer is right or wrong is irrelevant. If killing a child or saving a child only results in slightly different dialogue then the choice to kill or save the child doesn't have an effect and thus the choice is irrelevant. Hence why ME3's ending is so divisive because it is a choice that matters and has real consequences to it. Most other choices have very little to almost no real effect on the events of the game or the game it self. If both A and B options advance the story and only small changes are made to the dialogue then it doesn't matter because both are valid. A moral question like if you could travel back in time to when Hitler was a kid would you kill him to prevent what he will become? Do you kill an innocent child for the acts he will one day take totally transforming the world into a completely different state? Or do you let him live and commit those acts of horror because there were some benefits that came out of it with the technological advancements that helped improve the state of the world. But if it turns out that killing Hitler just has Gdolf Bitler rise to power and repeat literally everything Hitler does and all that changes is the name from Adolf Hitler to Gdolf Bitler in history books does it really matter if you kill him or not as a child? It isn't a moral choice anymore it is more a choice if you want to learn a new name. Rachni Queen is a good example as letting her live or die really doesn't matter in ME 1 or 2. All you get is a little 2 minute bit of talking. ME 3 you simply repeat the choice again with the Queen or the artificial one. Your choice is to let her die to save a handful of Krogan or let them die and gain the allegiance of her entire race. Which both choices being fine because you either plan to cure the Genophage so a couple dozen more dead Krogan won't mind or you plan on not curing them so more of them dying off isn't a big deal. The only reason not to save the Queen over the Krogans is if it is the fake queen and that shit is just basic logic there.
Small changes that would actually impact the game would make the moral choices actually matter. In ME 1 if you nuked the lower levels before you get to the Queen, she should be furious at you for doing that requiring a skill check or certain dialogue choices to calm her down other wise you would be require to kill her. If you free the queen before you go to do that side mission then the second the scientist is killed by the Rachni Drone they should all stop look away and quietly leave allowing Shepard to complete the mission without needing to go though all of it. All of these provide weight behind the choice to spare or save her and weight behind your actions.
ME 2 have the lady give Shepard a list of resource rich hot spots on a few toxic worlds. Even if you killed her you would still be able to find them but saving her provides a little benefit.
ME 3 when you go to investigate the Rachni Hive for Wrex/Wreav have normal Rachni show up to assist you against the enemies. If Grunt survives show two Rachni dragging him out of the cave before leaving him for Shepard.
But what ends up happening is nothing changes from one choice to another. Even if you kill the queen nothing happens in ME 1, nothing matters in ME 2 and a fake queen shows up in ME 3 to supply the Rachni troops. Nothing matters. Hell you can even choose to save the fake Rachni Queen as the worse thing that happens is you lose war assets. Instead what should happen is if you do that the second the final mission starts and the Fleet arrives in the Sol system the Crucible should self destruct and the game ends right there as the explosion takes out most of the Fleet. But no making the single stupidest choice ever simply negates some War Asset points which mattered in the vanilla game but as the DLC's came out it makes it very easy if you have all of them to get enough points for an ending that doesn't have the Crucible burning earth. Thus negating the effect even more. Thus making the moral choice on saving the Queen or killing her pointless as you are still able to get that breath scene or Synthesis ending if you so desire it.
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Post by alanc9 on Oct 29, 2018 23:39:51 GMT
What does changing gameplay have to do with the answers being right or wrong? If it doesn't have an effect then if the answer is right or wrong is irrelevant. If killing a child or saving a child only results in slightly different dialogue then the choice to kill or save the child doesn't have an effect and thus the choice is irrelevant. Hence why ME3's ending is so divisive because it is a choice that matters and has real consequences to it. Most other choices have very little to almost no real effect on the events of the game or the game it self. That isn't quite a response to the question I asked. I take it you're saying that it isn't necessary for the gameplay to be changed, just the world-state? This is awfully muddled. You're simply ignoring the survival of the rachni race and focusing on the krogan. Why? This would have burned a bunch of wordcount. Not a problem per se, but what would you have cut to fit this in?
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 30, 2018 2:36:29 GMT
That isn't quite a response to the question I asked. I take it you're saying that it isn't necessary for the gameplay to be changed, just the world-state? But it is the responds to the question you asked. Game play or levels and world states need to change based on your actions when you are dealing with important moral choices. Every choice in ME trilogy is rendered meaningless because regardless of choice the story still plays out the same just a few minor changes in dialogue. Kill Wrex or don't it doesn't matter the Krogan story line plays out the same. Save the Rachni Queen or not it doesn't matter the story still plays out the same. Save Ashley over Kaiden it doesn't matter the Virmire Survivor's story plays out the same. Lose Tali, Mordin or Legion in ME 2 doesn't matter because they have a fill in character that does everything they would do for them. When choices have no consequences there is no real morality to them. This is awfully muddled. You're simply ignoring the survival of the rachni race and focusing on the krogan. Why? No I'm pointing out the fact that if you saved the Queen in ME 1 the addition of the entire Rachni Race vs the gain of a dozen or so Krogan it isn't even a choice as the Rachni provide the obvious advantage. And at this point in the Tuchunka story line in ME 3 I think most players have firmly decided if they want to cure the Genoghage or not. And those dozen will be replaced by a dozen baby Krogan if you cure it. Or you plan on using them as sacrificial pawns anyways if you don't cure it so their deaths are meaningless. The survival of the Rachni ultimately goes no were and changes nothing except for a single message and some numbers on your console increase more. This would have burned a bunch of wordcount. Not a problem per se, but what would you have cut to fit this in? For those small examples nothing would have to be cut because the changes are small but at least noticeable and have an impact to your choices. Hell to make a few choices actually have an impact there wouldn't be a need to really cut any content but would at worst skip it.
Hell I can even think of having choice impact the game for the Krogan and Geth Story lines that wouldn't need anything cut from the existing ME 3 final game.
Tuchunaka Story
If Mordin did not survive ME 2's ending then there is no one to leak the surviving female so there is no talk of a cure.
If the Rachni Queen was not saved in ME 1 then there is no mission to the Attican Traverse because the Rachni will not show up in the single player story line.
- If Wrex is still alive you still fight the Reaper and have Wrex pledge some Krogan Support to the Truians for Shepard's sake.
- If Wrex is dead and Wreav is the leader and Mordin is dead so no cure option then Wreav tells everyone to fuck off and you skip the entirety of the Tuchunaka story.
- If Mordin is alive and the Queen was saved then the game plays out the same as it does now. With Wrex/Wreav demanding a cure, investigating the Rachni, fighting the Reaper and offering support to the Turians for the cure.
- If you sabotage the cure and Wrex is the leader he withdraws all Krogan support so you lose the Krogan assets but it also causes the Turians to withdraw their support as well so you lose all Turian assets.
Literally nothing needs to be removed as your choices would dictate what you get access to with some choices literally skipping entire large portions of the content. But those choices would matter and would impact the game play and world state. The loss of the Krogan and Turians would mean a much higher chance of the Fleet being decimated the second they pass thought the Charon Relay having the game end before you even get to Earth.
Rannoch Story
If Legion is dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught you simply disable the ship and escape. This locks out all Geth related side quests and makes it so sideing with Quarians is the only option.
If Tali is dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught there is no way point marker. It also locks out all Quarian related side quests and makes it so siding with the Geth is the only option.
If Legion is dead then in Priority: Rannoch when you try to infiltrate the base there are double the number of enemy Geth that spawn.
If Tali is dead then in Priority: Rannoch all Geth have a damage and defense buff.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught there is no way point marker and the ship can not be shut down fast enough so the Quarian Heavy Fleet gets nearly destroyed.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then during Priority: Rannoch there are double the number of enemy Geth that spawn and have a damage and defense buff.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then the conclusion of Rannoch depends on some choices made:
If you did Legion's loyalty mission and chose to destroy the Heretics, and you saved Admiral Koris then the Quarians will win the fight. How ever their fleet is severely damaged and they lose 75% of their war asset value.
If you chose to not do Legion's loyalty mission or you chose to reprogram the Heretics and you chose to not save Admiral Koris then the Geth Fleet wipes out the Quarians and then leaves so you gain no War assets. How ever due to no upgrade without Legion the Geth get recaptured by the Reapers and they can now spawn as enemies in the single player game.
If both Legion and Tali are alive then the game plays out as it does in the final version were you can pick one side over the other or truce with right choices.
Both examples provide choices and consequences to them and alters the game play and the world state if. With these examples I'm working within the existing framework of the game and how it was finalized. None of these changes would require a ton of effort and none of them would require content to be cut to make room for it.
Once the game has choices that matter and impact then game you can have set ups like if you allow Rana Thanoptis to survive in ME 1 she poisons Grunt so he dies shortly after being released from his tank due to her actions. This would effectively end Grunt's story line in ME 2 and be a time that a negative actions (killing an unarmed person) would provide a positive benefit. But as it stands now at least with Original Trilogy given I haven't played Andromeda because I've yet to meet anyone that cared about that game enough to address my concerns with it. There are practically no real consequences to your actions and you pretty much have to go out of your way to make your Shepard a complete ass hole to get the really bad ending.
TL;DR It is a video game so they will always dumb it down to good guy choices being the most beneficial. So choices having actual effects are the closest we will ever get to morality having an impact on story choices. And until the game shifts away from there being no to very few wrong choices complaining about how good guy choices result in the slightly better paths is moot.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 30, 2018 11:40:17 GMT
That isn't quite a response to the question I asked. I take it you're saying that it isn't necessary for the gameplay to be changed, just the world-state? But it is the responds to the question you asked. Game play or levels and world states need to change based on your actions when you are dealing with important moral choices. Every choice in ME trilogy is rendered meaningless because regardless of choice the story still plays out the same just a few minor changes in dialogue. Kill Wrex or don't it doesn't matter the Krogan story line plays out the same. Save the Rachni Queen or not it doesn't matter the story still plays out the same. Save Ashley over Kaiden it doesn't matter the Virmire Survivor's story plays out the same. Lose Tali, Mordin or Legion in ME 2 doesn't matter because they have a fill in character that does everything they would do for them. When choices have no consequences there is no real morality to them. This is awfully muddled. You're simply ignoring the survival of the rachni race and focusing on the krogan. Why? No I'm pointing out the fact that if you saved the Queen in ME 1 the addition of the entire Rachni Race vs the gain of a dozen or so Krogan it isn't even a choice as the Rachni provide the obvious advantage. And at this point in the Tuchunka story line in ME 3 I think most players have firmly decided if they want to cure the Genoghage or not. And those dozen will be replaced by a dozen baby Krogan if you cure it. Or you plan on using them as sacrificial pawns anyways if you don't cure it so their deaths are meaningless. The survival of the Rachni ultimately goes no were and changes nothing except for a single message and some numbers on your console increase more. This would have burned a bunch of wordcount. Not a problem per se, but what would you have cut to fit this in? For those small examples nothing would have to be cut because the changes are small but at least noticeable and have an impact to your choices. Hell to make a few choices actually have an impact there wouldn't be a need to really cut any content but would at worst skip it.
Hell I can even think of having choice impact the game for the Krogan and Geth Story lines that wouldn't need anything cut from the existing ME 3 final game.
Tuchunaka Story
If Mordin did not survive ME 2's ending then there is no one to leak the surviving female so there is no talk of a cure.
If the Rachni Queen was not saved in ME 1 then there is no mission to the Attican Traverse because the Rachni will not show up in the single player story line.
- If Wrex is still alive you still fight the Reaper and have Wrex pledge some Krogan Support to the Truians for Shepard's sake.
- If Wrex is dead and Wreav is the leader and Mordin is dead so no cure option then Wreav tells everyone to fuck off and you skip the entirety of the Tuchunaka story.
- If Mordin is alive and the Queen was saved then the game plays out the same as it does now. With Wrex/Wreav demanding a cure, investigating the Rachni, fighting the Reaper and offering support to the Turians for the cure.
- If you sabotage the cure and Wrex is the leader he withdraws all Krogan support so you lose the Krogan assets but it also causes the Turians to withdraw their support as well so you lose all Turian assets.
Literally nothing needs to be removed as your choices would dictate what you get access to with some choices literally skipping entire large portions of the content. But those choices would matter and would impact the game play and world state. The loss of the Krogan and Turians would mean a much higher chance of the Fleet being decimated the second they pass thought the Charon Relay having the game end before you even get to Earth.
Rannoch Story
If Legion is dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught you simply disable the ship and escape. This locks out all Geth related side quests and makes it so sideing with Quarians is the only option.
If Tali is dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught there is no way point marker. It also locks out all Quarian related side quests and makes it so siding with the Geth is the only option.
If Legion is dead then in Priority: Rannoch when you try to infiltrate the base there are double the number of enemy Geth that spawn.
If Tali is dead then in Priority: Rannoch all Geth have a damage and defense buff.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught there is no way point marker and the ship can not be shut down fast enough so the Quarian Heavy Fleet gets nearly destroyed.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then during Priority: Rannoch there are double the number of enemy Geth that spawn and have a damage and defense buff.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then the conclusion of Rannoch depends on some choices made:
If you did Legion's loyalty mission and chose to destroy the Heretics, and you saved Admiral Koris then the Quarians will win the fight. How ever their fleet is severely damaged and they lose 75% of their war asset value.
If you chose to not do Legion's loyalty mission or you chose to reprogram the Heretics and you chose to not save Admiral Koris then the Geth Fleet wipes out the Quarians and then leaves so you gain no War assets. How ever due to no upgrade without Legion the Geth get recaptured by the Reapers and they can now spawn as enemies in the single player game.
If both Legion and Tali are alive then the game plays out as it does in the final version were you can pick one side over the other or truce with right choices.
Both examples provide choices and consequences to them and alters the game play and the world state if. With these examples I'm working within the existing framework of the game and how it was finalized. None of these changes would require a ton of effort and none of them would require content to be cut to make room for it.
Once the game has choices that matter and impact then game you can have set ups like if you allow Rana Thanoptis to survive in ME 1 she poisons Grunt so he dies shortly after being released from his tank due to her actions. This would effectively end Grunt's story line in ME 2 and be a time that a negative actions (killing an unarmed person) would provide a positive benefit. But as it stands now at least with Original Trilogy given I haven't played Andromeda because I've yet to meet anyone that cared about that game enough to address my concerns with it. There are practically no real consequences to your actions and you pretty much have to go out of your way to make your Shepard a complete ass hole to get the really bad ending.
TL;DR It is a video game so they will always dumb it down to good guy choices being the most beneficial. So choices having actual effects are the closest we will ever get to morality having an impact on story choices. And until the game shifts away from there being no to very few wrong choices complaining about how good guy choices result in the slightly better paths is moot.
So basically only one version of the game. If the other options were chosen more than 50% of the game is unavailable. That would suck.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 30, 2018 14:49:48 GMT
But it is the responds to the question you asked. Game play or levels and world states need to change based on your actions when you are dealing with important moral choices. Every choice in ME trilogy is rendered meaningless because regardless of choice the story still plays out the same just a few minor changes in dialogue. Kill Wrex or don't it doesn't matter the Krogan story line plays out the same. Save the Rachni Queen or not it doesn't matter the story still plays out the same. Save Ashley over Kaiden it doesn't matter the Virmire Survivor's story plays out the same. Lose Tali, Mordin or Legion in ME 2 doesn't matter because they have a fill in character that does everything they would do for them. When choices have no consequences there is no real morality to them. No I'm pointing out the fact that if you saved the Queen in ME 1 the addition of the entire Rachni Race vs the gain of a dozen or so Krogan it isn't even a choice as the Rachni provide the obvious advantage. And at this point in the Tuchunka story line in ME 3 I think most players have firmly decided if they want to cure the Genoghage or not. And those dozen will be replaced by a dozen baby Krogan if you cure it. Or you plan on using them as sacrificial pawns anyways if you don't cure it so their deaths are meaningless. The survival of the Rachni ultimately goes no were and changes nothing except for a single message and some numbers on your console increase more. For those small examples nothing would have to be cut because the changes are small but at least noticeable and have an impact to your choices. Hell to make a few choices actually have an impact there wouldn't be a need to really cut any content but would at worst skip it.
Hell I can even think of having choice impact the game for the Krogan and Geth Story lines that wouldn't need anything cut from the existing ME 3 final game.
Tuchunaka Story
If Mordin did not survive ME 2's ending then there is no one to leak the surviving female so there is no talk of a cure.
If the Rachni Queen was not saved in ME 1 then there is no mission to the Attican Traverse because the Rachni will not show up in the single player story line.
- If Wrex is still alive you still fight the Reaper and have Wrex pledge some Krogan Support to the Truians for Shepard's sake.
- If Wrex is dead and Wreav is the leader and Mordin is dead so no cure option then Wreav tells everyone to fuck off and you skip the entirety of the Tuchunaka story.
- If Mordin is alive and the Queen was saved then the game plays out the same as it does now. With Wrex/Wreav demanding a cure, investigating the Rachni, fighting the Reaper and offering support to the Turians for the cure.
- If you sabotage the cure and Wrex is the leader he withdraws all Krogan support so you lose the Krogan assets but it also causes the Turians to withdraw their support as well so you lose all Turian assets.
Literally nothing needs to be removed as your choices would dictate what you get access to with some choices literally skipping entire large portions of the content. But those choices would matter and would impact the game play and world state. The loss of the Krogan and Turians would mean a much higher chance of the Fleet being decimated the second they pass thought the Charon Relay having the game end before you even get to Earth.
Rannoch Story
If Legion is dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught you simply disable the ship and escape. This locks out all Geth related side quests and makes it so sideing with Quarians is the only option.
If Tali is dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught there is no way point marker. It also locks out all Quarian related side quests and makes it so siding with the Geth is the only option.
If Legion is dead then in Priority: Rannoch when you try to infiltrate the base there are double the number of enemy Geth that spawn.
If Tali is dead then in Priority: Rannoch all Geth have a damage and defense buff.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then during Priority: Geth Dreadnaught there is no way point marker and the ship can not be shut down fast enough so the Quarian Heavy Fleet gets nearly destroyed.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then during Priority: Rannoch there are double the number of enemy Geth that spawn and have a damage and defense buff.
If both Legion and Tali are dead then the conclusion of Rannoch depends on some choices made:
If you did Legion's loyalty mission and chose to destroy the Heretics, and you saved Admiral Koris then the Quarians will win the fight. How ever their fleet is severely damaged and they lose 75% of their war asset value.
If you chose to not do Legion's loyalty mission or you chose to reprogram the Heretics and you chose to not save Admiral Koris then the Geth Fleet wipes out the Quarians and then leaves so you gain no War assets. How ever due to no upgrade without Legion the Geth get recaptured by the Reapers and they can now spawn as enemies in the single player game.
If both Legion and Tali are alive then the game plays out as it does in the final version were you can pick one side over the other or truce with right choices.
Both examples provide choices and consequences to them and alters the game play and the world state if. With these examples I'm working within the existing framework of the game and how it was finalized. None of these changes would require a ton of effort and none of them would require content to be cut to make room for it.
Once the game has choices that matter and impact then game you can have set ups like if you allow Rana Thanoptis to survive in ME 1 she poisons Grunt so he dies shortly after being released from his tank due to her actions. This would effectively end Grunt's story line in ME 2 and be a time that a negative actions (killing an unarmed person) would provide a positive benefit. But as it stands now at least with Original Trilogy given I haven't played Andromeda because I've yet to meet anyone that cared about that game enough to address my concerns with it. There are practically no real consequences to your actions and you pretty much have to go out of your way to make your Shepard a complete ass hole to get the really bad ending.
TL;DR It is a video game so they will always dumb it down to good guy choices being the most beneficial. So choices having actual effects are the closest we will ever get to morality having an impact on story choices. And until the game shifts away from there being no to very few wrong choices complaining about how good guy choices result in the slightly better paths is moot.
So basically only one version of the game. If the other options were chosen more than 50% of the game is unavailable. That would suck. Why would it suck? You make choices and your choices have consequences to them. If you are at a festival and you walk up and kick a security guard/officer in the dick you will be in trouble. Getting kicked out of the festival if not banned from all future ones.
Morality is not set in stone and they will always go the simple kid friendly route because they are not marketing the game primarily towards adults who want their world views challenged on what is good or bad to do. Hence why the game doesn't just end when Shepard is blasted by Harbinger or simply has the Catalyst turn into a Reaper weapon devastating everything showing no matter what choices and actions you take some things like death are inevitable and you just can't fight against it.
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griffith82
Hope for the best, plan for the worst
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Mar 15, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 30, 2018 14:51:08 GMT
So basically only one version of the game. If the other options were chosen more than 50% of the game is unavailable. That would suck. Why would it suck? You make choices and your choices have consequences to them. If you are at a festival and you walk up and kick a security guard/officer in the dick you will be in trouble. Getting kicked out of the festival if not banned from all future ones.
Morality is not set in stone and they will always go the simple kid friendly route because they are not marketing the game primarily towards adults who want their world views challenged on what is good or bad to do. Hence why the game doesn't just end when Shepard is blasted by Harbinger or simply has the Catalyst turn into a Reaper weapon devastating everything showing no matter what choices and actions you take some things like death are inevitable and you just can't fight against it.
That's not the game I'd want.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 30, 2018 15:11:27 GMT
Why would it suck? You make choices and your choices have consequences to them. If you are at a festival and you walk up and kick a security guard/officer in the dick you will be in trouble. Getting kicked out of the festival if not banned from all future ones.
Morality is not set in stone and they will always go the simple kid friendly route because they are not marketing the game primarily towards adults who want their world views challenged on what is good or bad to do. Hence why the game doesn't just end when Shepard is blasted by Harbinger or simply has the Catalyst turn into a Reaper weapon devastating everything showing no matter what choices and actions you take some things like death are inevitable and you just can't fight against it.
That's not the game I'd want. Then play another game that doesn't revolve around choices that are suppose to have consequences to the story. Games were the story is 100% scripted and you simply follow along with it with no choices being made besides when enemy do you shoot in the face first when they spawn.
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griffith82
Hope for the best, plan for the worst
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Mar 15, 2017 21:36:52 GMT
March 2017
griffith82
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 30, 2018 15:44:46 GMT
That's not the game I'd want. Then play another game that doesn't revolve around choices that are suppose to have consequences to the story. Games were the story is 100% scripted and you simply follow along with it with no choices being made besides when enemy do you shoot in the face first when they spawn. I do but I enjoy ME and the way it is. Don't tell me what to do.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 30, 2018 16:12:19 GMT
Then play another game that doesn't revolve around choices that are suppose to have consequences to the story. Games were the story is 100% scripted and you simply follow along with it with no choices being made besides when enemy do you shoot in the face first when they spawn. I do but I enjoy ME and the way it is. Don't tell me what to do. I think I can given you really haven't voiced any real reasons why it would be bad that choices would have positive and negative consequences on the story and game play. So far all you have done is show you want a game without choice because you do not want any consequences of choice in the game. Thus those kind of games are perfect. Mean while a major part of the Mass Effect game series is that choices are suppose to have effects.
Your choices would define your game by adding and subtracting content you can access based on your actions. In near 99% of the time short of some stupid choices during the Suicide Mission you have to willingly not play the game's content to lose people. Not doing Wrex's mission in ME 1 and/or not doing Tali or Mordin's loyalty mission is your choice to ignore game content anyways.
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♨ Retired
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themikefest
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Post by themikefest on Oct 30, 2018 17:28:29 GMT
Choices? Does the catalyst care what Shepard did? No Does it care if Shepard cured/sabotaged the genophage? No. Does it care if Shepard got peace between the geth and quarians? No. ME3 is about getting a number. Doesn't matter how, just get a number to defeat the reapers. Even with low ems, the reapers are defeated. The mission has been accomplished. I can go to Earth with zero krogan war assets, and still get the breath scene. How cool is that? I can have the memorial wall completely filled with names heading to Earth, and still get the breath scene. Lets have a second how cool is that? I can have 8 squadmates with me in ME2 having 5 of them loyal with everyone surviving the suicide mission. Don't need 12.
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Post by griffith82 on Oct 30, 2018 18:49:17 GMT
I do but I enjoy ME and the way it is. Don't tell me what to do. I think I can given you really haven't voiced any real reasons why it would be bad that choices would have positive and negative consequences on the story and game play. So far all you have done is show you want a game without choice because you do not want any consequences of choice in the game. Thus those kind of games are perfect. Mean while a major part of the Mass Effect game series is that choices are suppose to have effects.
Your choices would define your game by adding and subtracting content you can access based on your actions. In near 99% of the time short of some stupid choices during the Suicide Mission you have to willingly not play the game's content to lose people. Not doing Wrex's mission in ME 1 and/or not doing Tali or Mordin's loyalty mission is your choice to ignore game content anyways.
True but what you're suggesting takes away nearly half of ME3.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Oct 30, 2018 21:39:30 GMT
I think I can given you really haven't voiced any real reasons why it would be bad that choices would have positive and negative consequences on the story and game play. So far all you have done is show you want a game without choice because you do not want any consequences of choice in the game. Thus those kind of games are perfect. Mean while a major part of the Mass Effect game series is that choices are suppose to have effects.
Your choices would define your game by adding and subtracting content you can access based on your actions. In near 99% of the time short of some stupid choices during the Suicide Mission you have to willingly not play the game's content to lose people. Not doing Wrex's mission in ME 1 and/or not doing Tali or Mordin's loyalty mission is your choice to ignore game content anyways.
True but what you're suggesting takes away nearly half of ME3. Only if your a complete and total ass hole who would throw their own mother into traffic to get a cab play though style. Which is the natural consequence of that kind of behavior.
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Post by themikefest on Oct 30, 2018 21:46:26 GMT
What word is it that you say I keep using?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Nov 2, 2018 5:30:08 GMT
Eh first you have to make the questions actually matter. At least in original trilogy most options had very little difference in what happened. At best it only adds a new cut scene to watch or a few more lines of dialogue but never effects the game beyond that. What does morality mean when there are no wrong answers to a test? I disagree the why I did something is far more important than the effect. Hell I can have 3 identical lines of dialogue one blue, one red, one grey. But the intent and tone of each line would be different even if the effect was identical in each.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 2, 2018 22:35:11 GMT
Eh first you have to make the questions actually matter. At least in original trilogy most options had very little difference in what happened. At best it only adds a new cut scene to watch or a few more lines of dialogue but never effects the game beyond that. What does morality mean when there are no wrong answers to a test? I disagree the why I did something is far more important than the effect. Hell I can have 3 identical lines of dialogue one blue, one red, one grey. But the intent and tone of each line would be different even if the effect was identical in each. Which is fine for small scale things like letting an old lady with only a couple cans of cat food go ahead of you in line at the grocery store. But when you are literally deciding to allow an entire race that at one time brought the galaxy to it's knees and almost wiped out all other life in the charted galaxy, or choosing what squad mate to save over the other. These are major decision on par with "do I ask this person to marry me" or "do I quit my job because my boss is an ass even though I don't have a new job lined up yet and we are really short on money"
Why you did something is more important then the effect is a terrible mentality to have in the real world and it is an ever worse one to have in a game were choices are suppose to have effects. Not every choices has to have major effects but the big ones like choosing to kill someone or release a long extinct race back into the galaxy. That should have an effect. What you are doing is making an excuse for BioWare and any game company for that matter to take the lazy way out and simply provide the illusion of choice.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 2, 2018 22:44:07 GMT
True but what you're suggesting takes away nearly half of ME3. Only if your a complete and total ass hole who would throw their own mother into traffic to get a cab play though style. Which is the natural consequence of that kind of behavior. I don't play for realisim.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 3, 2018 0:16:35 GMT
Only if your a complete and total ass hole who would throw their own mother into traffic to get a cab play though style. Which is the natural consequence of that kind of behavior. I don't play for realisim. Then your in luck because the limitations of a video game prevents perfect realism. How ever much like in Fallout or Elder Scrolls games you kill a shop keeper or a quest giver and you lose access to that quest or that shop.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 3, 2018 0:38:52 GMT
I don't play for realisim. Then your in luck because the limitations of a video game prevents perfect realism. How ever much like in Fallout or Elder Scrolls games you kill a shop keeper or a quest giver and you lose access to that quest or that shop. Yes but you are suggesting much more than that.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 3, 2018 2:16:14 GMT
Then your in luck because the limitations of a video game prevents perfect realism. How ever much like in Fallout or Elder Scrolls games you kill a shop keeper or a quest giver and you lose access to that quest or that shop. Yes but you are suggesting much more than that. No I'm really not. To reach the play though you are complaining about in a Fallout or Elder Scrolls game you would literally have to walk around and kill every NPC you come across. If I walk up and kill Father in FO4 I really can't complain that the Institute is locked out from me. If I walk into every town in Skyrim and kill all the shop keepers I really can't complain that I can't sell anything for money.
Or simply remove choices all together from ME games. It would allow a more coherent narrative and not handicap them in trying to tell the story. Most of the story issues with ME OT comes from the multiple paths people can take. Which makes telling the story and what they wanted to convey to the players more difficult.
But if Legion is gone because you sold it or it died in the mission there is no reason why the Reapers or Geth would build a VI version of Legion to spread the Reaper code. It would be much easier just to build a signal relay. And without EDI or Legion to interact with the Geth Ship the upgraded Geth would be able to stop any organic attempt to shut it down. Because that is how far beyond organic life the likes of EDI or upgraded Geth are in terms of interaction with technology. Without Legion to fully shut down the Dreadnaought it would still be able to fight and would still be able to do damage to the Heavy Fleet. Without Legion there isn't anyone to give a shit about the Geth as 100% of the Geth are taken over by the Reapers and only Legions unique set up allowed him to go against the Reaper control. No Legion to resist and recompile the Reaper code into a harmless upgrade no way to side with the Geth meaning the second the Reaper signal is cut off the Quarians have the advantage to go in guns blazing.
And ironically for all your complaining that being the largest possible ass hole in the entire galaxy to the point even TIM would blush and tell you to dial it back might reduce the game for you. The choices and branching paths would actually make multiple play though unique.
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Post by griffith82 on Nov 3, 2018 2:25:19 GMT
Yes but you are suggesting much more than that. No I'm really not. To reach the play though you are complaining about in a Fallout or Elder Scrolls game you would literally have to walk around and kill every NPC you come across. If I walk up and kill Father in FO4 I really can't complain that the Institute is locked out from me. If I walk into every town in Skyrim and kill all the shop keepers I really can't complain that I can't sell anything for money.
Or simply remove choices all together from ME games. It would allow a more coherent narrative and not handicap them in trying to tell the story. Most of the story issues with ME OT comes from the multiple paths people can take. Which makes telling the story and what they wanted to convey to the players more difficult.
But if Legion is gone because you sold it or it died in the mission there is no reason why the Reapers or Geth would build a VI version of Legion to spread the Reaper code. It would be much easier just to build a signal relay. And without EDI or Legion to interact with the Geth Ship the upgraded Geth would be able to stop any organic attempt to shut it down. Because that is how far beyond organic life the likes of EDI or upgraded Geth are in terms of interaction with technology. Without Legion to fully shut down the Dreadnaought it would still be able to fight and would still be able to do damage to the Heavy Fleet. Without Legion there isn't anyone to give a shit about the Geth as 100% of the Geth are taken over by the Reapers and only Legions unique set up allowed him to go against the Reaper control. No Legion to resist and recompile the Reaper code into a harmless upgrade no way to side with the Geth meaning the second the Reaper signal is cut off the Quarians have the advantage to go in guns blazing.
And ironically for all your complaining that being the largest possible ass hole in the entire galaxy to the point even TIM would blush and tell you to dial it back might reduce the game for you. The choices and branching paths would actually make multiple play though unique.
Look most of us like the games the way they are. I don't agree with your take and never will. I see your point but ME ain't fallout. I'm quite glad it isn't.
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Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 3, 2018 14:18:52 GMT
Look most of us like the games the way they are. Source? I don't agree with your take and never will. I see your point but ME ain't fallout. I'm quite glad it isn't. If you think it is a bad idea you need better reasoning then no I want to be able to go to a children's park in the game and cut off puppies heads and then throw their lifeless blood soaked corpse at children. And still get the same rewards as the guy who just walks past the park and does nothing.
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