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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 10, 2019 21:07:32 GMT
Old-fashioned perhaps, but derogatory? Never heard it having any negative connotations?
But if indeed so, then I apologise for using it earlier, even if only quoting one of the devs. If it is derogatory then that is something I've never heard of. Swarthiness is rather archaic and very broad in how it can be applied to any dusky skinned person but outside of that it is harmless enough. However, a quick internet search suggests that urban slang may have applied a slightly different meaning to it, which is presumably why someone thought it should be blacked out, probably because they were unaware of its true meaning.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 21:31:26 GMT
I assume because it is a derogatory racial term. Old-fashioned perhaps, but derogatory? Never heard it having any negative connotations?
But if indeed so, then I apologise for using it earlier, even if only quoting one of the devs. It is a derogatory and racist term. I do not know why people are overreacting as if I said it is a racial slur.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 21:34:47 GMT
It is a derogatory and racist term. I do not know why people are overreacting as if I said it is a racial slur. Proof that's not on Tumblr?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 21:36:06 GMT
Seriously everyone, drop this conversation now. I do not want where this is going in my thread.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 21:39:05 GMT
but I didn't know he was intended to be Indian. This is the issue I have when using these real-world analogues. Dorian is not "intended to be Indian." India doesn't exist in Thedas. Using these countries and regions is convenient shorthand for description, but that's all they are. But Isabela and Vaea are totally black with no problem right? No need to specify that they are "black coded" or that they are not actually really truly black because there is no Africa in Thedas? He is meant to be Indian. He is Asian, just like Vivienne is black.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 21:44:13 GMT
But Isabela and Vaea are totally black with no problem right? No need to specify that they are "black coded" or that they are not actually really truly black because there is no Africa in Thedas? He is meant to be Indian. He is Asian, just like Vivienne is black. Except I never argued for either one in this thread. My posts about the subject were about getting you to articulate why you thought she wasn't, which you still haven't done.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 10, 2019 21:52:25 GMT
It is a derogatory and racist term. I do not know why people are overreacting as if I said it is a racial slur. I think the confusion might be because some countries may consider it far more offensive than others? Same with how certain swearwords can be tame in one nation, but other nations react to them as if you punched their grandmother in the face?
Otherwise, it is now considered offensive, but that memo hasn't yet been passed to everyone in the class? But Isabela and Vaea are totally black with no problem right? No need to specify that they are "black coded" or that they are not actually really truly black because there is no Africa in Thedas? He is meant to be Indian. He is Asian, just like Vivienne is black. I don't think people are saying that Isabela, Vivienne or Vaea are actually "black", in so much that this is the closest analogous term from our world that we might use to describe their ethnicity, even though it's not technically accurate or applicable to them? Seriously everyone, drop this conversation now. I do not want where this is going in my thread. Aye, this is getting waaaaay off-topic.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 10, 2019 21:55:59 GMT
But Isabela and Vaea are totally black with no problem right? No need to specify that they are "black coded" or that they are not actually really truly black because there is no Africa in Thedas? He is meant to be Indian. He is Asian, just like Vivienne is black. Except I never argued for either one in this thread. My posts about the subject were about getting you to articulate why you thought she wasn't, which you still haven't done. She is not black because there is no Africa in Thedas
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Post by melbella on Mar 10, 2019 22:59:09 GMT
She did not have her freckles either Which you couldn't see even if they were there since she was wearing a mask.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 10, 2019 23:02:46 GMT
Since we are discussing appearance do you think Vaea will have her eyes in the game if she shows up or will they do human pupils?
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Post by Little Bengel on Mar 10, 2019 23:15:35 GMT
I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have goat pupils. That strikes me as more of an artistic choice for the comic.
If BioWare adds pupil shapes for the elven CC, however, all bets are off.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 11, 2019 0:20:23 GMT
I'm pretty sure she wouldn't have goat pupils. That strikes me as more of an artistic choice for the comic. If BioWare adds pupil shapes for the elven CC, however, all bets are off. This was addressed by the author earlier in the thread. To which I say, "Thank the Maker." It's a bizarre artist choice, with no consideration for lore, or even sense, since there are other elves in the comics that have normal eyes. She looks distinctive enough without that.
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Post by thats1evildude on Mar 11, 2019 17:25:11 GMT
Her uncle had the goat eyes too. It’s obvious what happened: many decades or perhaps centuries ago, one of Vaea’s ancestors trapped a demon in a goat and it cursed their children to have goat eyes. And that’s how we got Lord Woolsey.
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Mar 28, 2019 6:09:53 GMT
Her uncle had the goat eyes too. It’s obvious what happened: many decades or perhaps centuries ago, one of Vaea’s ancestors trapped a demon in a goat and it cursed their children to have goat eyes. And that’s how we got Lord Woolsey. One day I hope to write an entire Lord Woolsey meets Autumn the Mabari miniseries. I think you may have given me a big piece of the plot!
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 28, 2019 6:55:59 GMT
Her uncle had the goat eyes too. It’s obvious what happened: many decades or perhaps centuries ago, one of Vaea’s ancestors trapped a demon in a goat and it cursed their children to have goat eyes. And that’s how we got Lord Woolsey. One day I hope to write an entire Lord Woolsey meets Autumn the Mabari miniseries. I think you may have given me a big piece of the plot! Well, he is a very special ram.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 28, 2019 13:08:47 GMT
Her uncle had the goat eyes too. It’s obvious what happened: many decades or perhaps centuries ago, one of Vaea’s ancestors trapped a demon in a goat and it cursed their children to have goat eyes. And that’s how we got Lord Woolsey. Or perhaps one of her ancestors was very lonely one night and... well, you know.
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 30, 2019 18:05:03 GMT
I'm feeling optimistic about her. I like that her appearance supports that elves with Rivaini coloration, for whatever reason, aren't unheard of in Thedas, since both my Lavellan and planned future Warden look the same, albeit with brown rather than green eyes. I made them that way because it just looks really cool on elves, and both are native to clans we never see in-game. And I just have a weakness for girls with dark skin and hair. It's nice to know that I haven't taken too many liberties with headcanon. I also like her personality, from what we see of it in the comics. She's sensible and dignified without being preachy, and expects the same of others. And she's hurt and offended when her friends refuse to pull themselves together and takes her concern for their happiness for granted. That's pretty awesome, and the kind of woman you'd admire and whose respect you would be proud of in real life. And unlike Sera she actually uses her humble origins to deflect attention and keep herself safe. That said, I'm not a huge fan of the idea that she's a lifelong petty criminal. That's a weak character background for a roguish type and always has been. Previous awesome rogues had some more specific ties to the rest of Thedasian society grounding them. Zevran and his extensive professional pride and history as an Antivan Crow. Leliana being an Orlesian socialite and entertainer and castoff acolyte of a ruthless spy before joining the clergy. Varric and his merchant guild and business savvy and attachment to his community. Nathaniel and Sebastian being dispossessed nobility with few ordinary marketable skills and every intention of salvaging what they could of their legacy by underhanded means, though approached in vastly different ways. Sera and Cole both felt the weaker for having more abstract and romantic connections to the world, even though real effort was made for Sera to seem to have an affinity for the working class. Or especially with that. If she does turn out to be a companion, I hope more weight is put on her background and responsibilities in the Alienage rather than her just being another beautiful and inexplicably ethical expert freelance cat burglar among all the others.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 30, 2019 18:43:48 GMT
Noxluxe I wouldn’t say she is a petty criminal. To me that implies that she is doing it for herself when as we see her thefts are done to help others. She’s like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich to give to the poor. She even has a green, brown, and red color scheme like him. Now if you think Robin Hood is a petty criminal then okay you can believe she is the same.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 30, 2019 18:55:44 GMT
Well, Robin Hood is a criminal, literally -- he breaks laws all the time. I don't think "petty" applies, though.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 30, 2019 19:06:47 GMT
Now if you think Robin Hood is a petty criminal then okay you can believe she is the same. Robin Hood was an outlaw in the literal sense. Anyone who didn't operate within the laws of the feudal system was considered as such whether they went around stealing or not. There is also a difference between the version of him as portrayed constantly by Hollywood and the traditional version of English folklore. In fact in one version of him that I have in my reading collection, he comes across as closer to how Sera is than a true champion of the poor and downtrodden. He just takes great delight in outwitting the rich and powerful, helping himself to the king's deer, before turning up at the local tavern and buying everyone a round of drinks. Hence his popularity. I find Vaea harder to pigeon hole really and I think she is all the better for it. She definitely isn't an outlaw as she is respectably employed as a squire so is conforming to the system in that respect and doesn't need to steal to survive, nor does she seem to do so out of some sort of petty revenge fantasy as Sera appears to advocate. However, she does seem to steal to order on behalf of others or on her own initiative so she can help other people, which begs the question why doesn't she just take legitimate jobs to earn a bit of cash? I wonder if it is because on the whole her way of doing things is less likely to put her in a situation where she might have to harm people.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 30, 2019 19:15:09 GMT
I won't argue that she isn't a criminal since she absolutely is since she commits crimes by stealing. I was just arguing that the term petty didn't really apply. gervaise21 That's an interesting idea about her not taking legitimate jobs as a way to avoid harming people. That cdould have been a part of it since she does abhore killing it, however I think the main reason is the prejudice against elves. Any job she could get could barely support herself let alone others. Plus she is busy most of the time with a legitimate job: being Aaron's squire, the first elf to ever be a squire for a knight. So she doesn't really have much time to take another legitimate job, especially since he is a wandering knight so she's never in the same place for long. So with the limited time, thievery seems to be the best way to help according to her.
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 30, 2019 19:34:47 GMT
Noxluxe I wouldn’t say she is a petty criminal. To me that implies that she is doing it for herself when as we see her thefts are done to help others. She’s like Robin Hood, stealing from the rich to give to the poor. She even has a green, brown, and red color scheme like him. Now if you think Robin Hood is a petty criminal then okay you can believe she is the same. I tend to agree. "Petty crime" is just a common phrase for crimes that aren't very serious, which I don't think hers are. "Petty larceny", as opposed to "grand larceny" is the legal term for stealing objects worth less than a certain amount of money in the US, and used to be in Britain as well. A "petty criminal" is just a small-time criminal, not a criminal who is petty. The Robin Hood theme is definitely there. I think I like her style better though. Opportunistically stealing relatively superfluous pieces of wealth and handing them to individual people she judges to be in need is easier to sympathize with than staging large robberies and organizing and advocating wide-spread anarchy out of ideological resentment for the upper class. In that sense, I like Vaea a lot more than I do Sera's take on some of the same themes. One could argue that it's an author's saving throw of sorts. And it looks like a promising one. I do hope that she has background and ties to society that we don't already know about from the comics though.
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Apr 1, 2019 6:34:09 GMT
With Vaea, we feel like we're building her connection and ties instead of exploring/revealing old ones.
Her backstory is local to Edgehall, though the conditions there are emblematic of the lives of alienage elves. So it has relevance to any elf who grew up like that, but is specific to her and that town and her uncle's Dalish clan, and that's about as far as her reach goes for the first 14 years of her life.
With her connection to Ser Aaron comes a connection to the throne of Ferelden (King Alistair in the main canon). And their travels together have taken them to many different nations, and brought her in contact with people and organizations of huge importance. We can pull from that backstory to, say, forge a connection with the Empress of Orlais, if need be.
But these comics are where we're weaving her into the society. She works (on the downlow) for the Inquisition now, and counts the Viscount of Kirkwall among her friends. She has struck up an acquaintance with the King of Starkhaven, who may be a little smitten with her. She just left Ventus in the company of a mage whose family is plugged into the Venatori, and her group (though not her, per se) ran into and worked briefly with a pair of Antivan Crows.
In many ways, we wanted to avoid giving her too much of a connection to the factions of this world at the start, because we wanted her to find her way through the world and learn about it through these stories. So while her travels with Ser Aaron in backstory can provide connections and ties as needed, we're more likely to forge new ones for her in these comics than pull old ones from backstory. We'll do more of that (backstory ties) for Ser Aaron, because he's been so many places and seen and done so much.
That's our thinking with her, anyway. She's not a game companion at this time, and we have no idea if she ever will be. She's the central character of these comics, though - the one pulling the various miniseries together. Her journeys are just getting started. so we're building her story instead of revealing it. If that makes sense.
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Post by Iddy on Apr 1, 2019 12:02:01 GMT
nunziodefilippisSome elves have a certain nostalgia for Arlathan, while others don't really care. Does Vaea have any sort of interest in these legends?
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Post by nunziodefilippis on Apr 2, 2019 20:00:22 GMT
nunziodefilippis Some elves have a certain nostalgia for Arlathan, while others don't really care. Does Vaea have any sort of interest in these legends? Vaea doesn't know enough about elven history, language or lore to feel a sense of loss. She mourns the opportunities and lives that her people could live today that they're denied, rather than any history they may have lost (which coincidentally would make her very immune to the appeal of Solas' plans - though her dislike of killing people would also make his plans very problematic). She's very much a "live in the now" person.
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