gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Nov 13, 2018 20:50:31 GMT
Should Bioware retcon Sten in DA 4 for the sake that Sten will get a more important role as Arishok or should Bioware work with replacement characters like Stroud?
I know a lot of Fans hated the retcon of Lelianas Origins death but i´ve always appreciated this decision because only a small number of player had picked this more hidden option but overall thought that it was worth it in DAI. So why shouldn´t Bioware do the same with Sten? Someone else freed him from his cage and he also found his Sword. Its very forced but not impossible. Also the old videogame rule no body is found therfore the person isn´t dead. (Maybe Duncan is the exception in DA  )
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Post by vertigomez on Nov 13, 2018 20:55:35 GMT
I mean, I figured that's what happened. If you left him in Lothering he just got out somehow, found Asala, and eventually reported back home and became the Arishok. It wasn't actually confirmed that he died if you left him there, so it doesn't seem like a retcon to me.
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Post by NotN7 on Nov 13, 2018 21:02:44 GMT
I agree, he gathered all the info he was sent to gather about the Wardens,and the Blight, so after his hangover of too much party, he left to report back. with that said I really hope to see him one way or another in the next dragon age story. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 13, 2018 21:04:27 GMT
I agree, he gathered all the info he was sent to gather about the Wardens,and the Blight, so after his hangover of too much party, he left to report back. with that said I really hope to see him one way or another in the next dragon age story.  Considering the Qun-Tevinter War will almost certainly be playing a big part and as Arishok he leads the Qun's armies we will most likely see him next game. I'm also interested in finally meeting the other two parts of the Triumvirate: the Arigena and the Ariqun. |
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Nov 13, 2018 21:07:52 GMT
The only retconning would be for the players who actually killed Sten in their playthroughs. Every other option including leaving him in Lothering doesn't mean he died. You can´t kill Sten in Origins. Its only possible to left him in the cage or you mean the Haven Fight? He only left the party in this case.
Yeah that would also be interessing. Especially if Rasaan is the new Ariqun.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 13, 2018 21:13:03 GMT
The only retconning would be for the players who actually killed Sten in their playthroughs. Every other option including leaving him in Lothering doesn't mean he died. You can´t kill Sten in Origins. Its only possible to left him in the cage or you mean the Haven Fight? He only left the party in this case.
Yeah that would also be interessing. Especially if Rasaan is the new Ariqun.
I heard somewhere you could kill him. My mistake then. I hope to see Rasaan. |
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gangrelbeckett
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Nov 13, 2018 21:21:15 GMT
I heard somewhere you could kill him. My mistake then. Well if this really was the case xLetalis had already made a video.  You can only fight him.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 13, 2018 23:07:46 GMT
If yoou will permit me to make the observation...
I am a lot more curious on how much of a role he will even have in the next game given that people (myself included) like him so BioWaremight deem it too risky or too contrversial to make him into the main antagonist...or one of them. Especialy if that result was to turn him into a typical Qunari brute rather then someone like the Arishock from DA 2 or himself from Origins.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Nov 13, 2018 23:10:56 GMT
I mean, I figured that's what happened. If you left him in Lothering he just got out somehow, found Asala, and eventually reported back home and became the Arishok. It wasn't actually confirmed that he died if you left him there, so it doesn't seem like a retcon to me. I always thought it was like the Dagna situation - just because he doesn't get help from the Warden doesn't mean he doesn't achieve his goal in the end.
As for why he decided to fight instead of sitting in a cage waiting to die, my theory has always been that someone else let him out and told him to fight the darkspawn. The Warden and their chums can't be the only people in Lothering who see what a stupid waste it is to have a trained warrior slowly starving to death when there are hundreds of darkspawn in the immediate vicinity. I imagine the risk vs. rewards balance looked different to the locals when it was clear Lothering was going to be destroyed.
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Post by arvaarad on Nov 14, 2018 0:57:12 GMT
Does it matter who’s actually the Arishok? Unless he gets deep into his personal history, Qunari have got to be the easiest folks to swap out, either in canon or headcanon. Regardless of who it really is, he’ll have the same name.  |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 14, 2018 2:24:35 GMT
I mean, I figured that's what happened. If you left him in Lothering he just got out somehow, found Asala, and eventually reported back home and became the Arishok. It wasn't actually confirmed that he died if you left him there, so it doesn't seem like a retcon to me. Agreed. On my canon play, I didn't get my friendship high enough to get the quest, but I have no issue with him being Arishock in that case. Even if I had left him for dead, it's never established that he did die, so I'm of the same mind there as well. It's even suggested in later dialogue with him that he could have broken out of that cage whenever he wished. Perhaps as the darkspawn were looming, regardless of how he felt about his actions, the instinct to survive was too great and he freed himself.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 14, 2018 2:53:56 GMT
Does it matter who’s actually the Arishok? Unless he gets deep into his personal history, Qunari have got to be the easiest folks to swap out, either in canon or headcanon. Regardless of who it really is, he’ll have the same name.  Well, it could matter in the sense that his relationship with the Warden may affect how he interacts with us. |
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 14, 2018 4:10:34 GMT
Well, it could matter in the sense that his relationship with the Warden may affect how he interacts with us. As in, "I know you bas aren't all bad"? I see your point, but I think "Sten" is more than capable of compartmentalizing his feelings for the Warden when it comes to dealing with some random new person. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 14, 2018 4:12:25 GMT
Well, it could matter in the sense that his relationship with the Warden may affect how he interacts with us. As in, "I know you bas aren't all bad"? I see your point, but I think "Sten" is more than capable of compartmentalizing his feelings for the Warden when it comes to dealing with some random new person. Most likely, but I was just thinking more in a game sense as in earning basalit-an status in multiple games might unlock an option otherwise unavailable. |
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 14, 2018 19:58:15 GMT
Should we meet the Arishok personally, I'd be more upset if he didn't turn out to be Sten, bearing in mind that he was all but confirmed as such in World of Thedas 2 (and I get fed up when information in that book is contradicted) as well as him appearing in the role in the comic series. He had a pretty big entry in the book and the final paragraph for Sten in WoT2 says:
"Well after the events of the Fifth Blight, rumours that Sten had replaced the disgraced Arishok spread and greatly alarmed Minrathous. If they are true, many believe the war with the Qunari could finally find a victor."
Admittedly it says "if they are true" but we know from the comic series that the are. That said, it would be easy enough if they wanted to replace him by simply having a report or codex to the effect that Tevinter agents succeeded in assassinating him or he was killed in an engagement with the enemy.
Incidentally I agree it would not be a retcon since we never see him dead and so it is easy enough to explain that he did later escape from the cage or was let out by people as they fled the darkspawn. Then he managed to find the guy with his sword, possibly in a different location from the one where we found him or alternatively in that alternate story-line the sword never left the area where Sten originally lost it.
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Post by Blaze on Nov 15, 2018 16:48:42 GMT
well it's not a retcon, nothing confirmed he died. also, leliana death wasn't a retcon either, just so you know =P
i mean the only thing that might be effected, is what the arishok says about the warden, but knowing sten, he won't talk about the warden at all.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 19, 2018 3:25:53 GMT
He already is the next arishock. next.
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Post by Sifr on Nov 19, 2018 4:21:53 GMT
I see your point, but I think "Sten" is more than capable of compartmentalizing his feelings for the Warden when it comes to dealing with some random new person. I think that's true even with Warden, as Sten admitted in Origins that he fully expects the Qunari to invade Ferelden sometime in the future and hopes not to find the Warden on the battlefield whenever that day may happen.
As a Qunari soldier, I doubt he would hesitate for an second to strike down the Warden if the Qun demanded it. Even though on a personal level, he'd prefer not to be given that order or be the one that had to carry it out.
The same is no doubt true if Bull turns on the Inquisition in Trespasser, if he's still loyal to the Qunari. It wasn't that he wasn't friends with the Inquisition, nor that he harboured any malicious intent towards them (as Cole acknowledges), but because the Qun demanded that he do so.
A Qunari can murder their closest friends with no hard feelings, because it really isn't personal.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 19, 2018 5:15:56 GMT
Sifr Man, I really want a female "Sten." To me, Tallis was more like Bull in having doubts and reservations, but still seeing overall value in the system. Sten is fully indoctrinated; I can't imagine him saying some of the statements that Tallis and Bull make.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 19, 2018 7:48:55 GMT
Sifr Man, I really want a female "Sten." To me, Tallis was more like Bull in having doubts and reservations, but still seeing overall value in the system. Sten is fully indoctrinated; I can't imagine him saying some of the statements that Tallis and Bull make. So you want Rasaan? dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Rasaan |
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gangrelbeckett
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Post by gangrelbeckett on Nov 19, 2018 14:56:14 GMT
Exactly but Rasaan will likely be no companion. She will be more the villian / antagonist in DA 4.
But i would be shocked if we don´t have a female Qunari in the DA 4 party. This female Qunari could be this time a real Tal Vashoth.
I really like the InEngine description from the Valo-Kas Leader Shokrakar.
"Shokrakar is a female qunari who spent her life rebelling against the dictates of the Qun, and finally escaped. She was always too aggressive and too opinionated to fit the Qunaris idea of proper female behavior, and rebelled repeatedly against every profession and part of society the priests tried to force her into. Her name literally means ´rebel´ in qunari. She bears hefty emotional and physical scars from years of enduring re-education camps, but is triumphant about having gained her freedom. She is forthright, confident and impossible to intimidate. Visually, she should show the scars of her background, but have a relaxed, open demeanor, since she has finally achieved everything she was fighting for."
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 19, 2018 18:18:03 GMT
Sifr Man, I really want a female "Sten." To me, Tallis was more like Bull in having doubts and reservations, but still seeing overall value in the system. Sten is fully indoctrinated; I can't imagine him saying some of the statements that Tallis and Bull make. So you want Rasaan? dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/RasaanI'd prefer a warrior, and someone direct, over someone likely to be there under false pretenses. Bull and Tallis were both liars, which was part of their role. As taciturn as Sten was, a liar he was not. As part of the arishok (the body of the qun), the simplicity of that role means that his devotion and indoctrination to the qun is, for lack of a better term, more "pure." I'd suggest that, because of their role, members of the ben-hassrath are more likely to go on the path toward doubt. |
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zarrokhai
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Biotic 'Smash' can mean a whole other thing. Ask Jack ;)
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Post by zarrokhai on Nov 20, 2018 0:48:23 GMT
I would personally prefer that, if we do get Sten back, he comes back as an antagonist. Not just some minor antagonist, but a major one. I like Sten, but the dude is utterly devoted to the Qun. You could at least sow seeds of doubt within Bull, but it just wasn't possible with Sten.
I mean he himself says as much back in Origins. I remember him telling my Warden at some point (I believe it was the victory celebration) that he, when the time came, would not look for the Warden on the battlefield. He was certain that one day he would have to fight his friends, and was already mentally preparing for that day.
Sten as an antagonist would be interesting. It's like Reverse-Loghain. Loghain starts as your enemy, but it's possible to make him your ally. By the third game, he is seen as one of the good guys. On the other hand, Sten starts as your ally but, by the fourth game, he becomes someone who opposes you.
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Post by Sifr on Nov 20, 2018 3:33:44 GMT
If Sten was the main antagonist, I don't see us being able to convince him to turn against the Qun.
However, I do think Sten is presented as reasonable enough that he could be convinced that it would be more beneficial for the Qunari not to wage war against the South... at least, not at the present time.
Perhaps we can also convince him to stand down by showing that the actions/behaviour of those advocating for war (like Rasaan) demonstrate they may have broken the Qun. Sten's characterisation makes me doubt that he could ever be convinced that the Qun is wrong, but it would be in-character for him to accept that Qunari can fail to follow the Qun.
As the Qun would require those people to stripped of their role and they'd need time to pick their replacements, Sten might agree to a "temporary" ceasefire to allow the Qunari to resolve their internal matters, while letting them save face to the rest of Thedas. After all, they can always invade them tomorrow...
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 20, 2018 5:32:32 GMT
However, I do think Sten is presented as reasonable enough that he could be convinced that it would be more beneficial for the Qunari not to wage war against the South... at least, not at the present time. That seems like an unsatisfying hanging plot thread. Because it would have to be "not at the present time," as part of the Qun's mission statement is to spread the Qun. It would happen eventually. I'd prefer that we help Tevinter fight them off, but that's just me; I'm a Tevinter fan. |
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