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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 20, 2018 5:37:22 GMT
I hope we aren’t forced to have to side with one or even one or the other.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by coldsteelblue on Nov 20, 2018 11:05:13 GMT
It would be interesting to have Sten back, I really liked the character, but having him as the Arishok & being forced to deal with him could come with several issues.
1: If we have to fight him, how many will say it is nothing more than a repeat of DA2, especially if the new protag earns his respect too?
2: Sten didn't touch that many characters in the DA universe (at least in-game, dunno about the EU), so the emotional attachment would only be for the player & I think we need to have someone from his time with The Blight present, but most of the roster have either been used too much or fall into the could be dead category, I think only Oghren, Shale & Zevran are all that could be there in reality.
Either way, it would be a nice thing to have, so we'll see what happens.
Just my thoughts.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 20, 2018 12:03:30 GMT
Sten didn't touch that many characters in the DA universe I'm not sure why this matters? It has already been established (through descriptive suggestion) that he is arishok. It's not just something from the comics that can be brushed aside as David Gaider's personal headcanon for that series. Knowing who "Sten" is, and the history there, would be a bonus for players familiar with the series, but it's not a necessity to make him a compelling figure as arishok, however they decide to use him.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 20, 2018 18:39:48 GMT
However, I do think Sten is presented as reasonable enough that he could be convinced that it would be more beneficial for the Qunari not to wage war against the South... at least, not at the present time. Perhaps we can also convince him to stand down by showing that the actions/behaviour of those advocating for war (like Rasaan) demonstrate they may have broken the Qun. Sten's characterisation makes me doubt that he could ever be convinced that the Qun is wrong, but it would be in-character for him to accept that Qunari can fail to follow the Qun. As the Qun would require those people to stripped of their role and they'd need time to pick their replacements, Sten might agree to a "temporary" ceasefire to allow the Qunari to resolve their internal matters, while letting them save face to the rest of Thedas. After all, they can always invade them tomorrow... This idea overlooks the fact that Sten is likely behind the current action against Tevinter. The Arishok is head of the army and on the whole decides operations, with the help of his senior officers. Whilst he might not have approved the operation with the Viddasala, as she was a branch of the Ben-Hassrath and under direction of the Ariqun, I very much doubt the offensive against mainland Tevinter would have gone ahead without him being in favour of it. Also the action of the Viddasala, with the "gentle" conquering of nations after removing their leaders en mass actually did seem to fit his idea of how to conquer the south by stealth instead of direct assault. As a young officer, Sten caught the attention of his superiors because of his willingness to criticise the actions of the Kathaban, head of the navy, for launching the last assault on mainland Tevinter. After it failed, he expressed his concerns to the then Arishok about their strategy against Tevinter and this was considered remarkable because he was willing to disagree with the Arishok. Instead of direct assault, he argued in favour of information gathering to advance the cause, in other words expanding their spy network. It was because Tevinter agents were aware of his background that Minrathous was so alarmed when he became Arishok. If the focus shifted back to direct assault, I doubt it would have happened without his approval. As I understand the strategy, they have also placed sleeper agents among the slaves of Tevinter, who I imagine are there to foster discontent and so undermine the defence. So next game I am anticipating reports of slave uprisings the moment the assault occurs.
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theascendent
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Post by theascendent on Nov 20, 2018 18:53:00 GMT
Coexistence with the Qun is impossible. We must eradicate them from existence before they do the same to us. Make no mistake that this is a war for survival.
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You'll be peeling goddamn potatoes for the rest of your miserable excuse for a military career!
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Post by General Mahad on Nov 27, 2018 8:30:39 GMT
Wasn't there a comic where he became the Arishok and Alistar fought him? Is that considered Canon?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 27, 2018 9:12:31 GMT
General Mahad Sten didn't touch that many characters in the DA universe I'm not sure why this matters? It has already been established (through descriptive suggestion) that he is arishok. It's not just something from the comics that can be brushed aside as David Gaider's personal headcanon for that series. Knowing who "Sten" is, and the history there, would be a bonus for players familiar with the series, but it's not a necessity to make him a compelling figure as arishok, however they decide to use him.
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Post by arvaarad on Nov 28, 2018 13:10:52 GMT
Wasn't there a comic where he became the Arishok and Alistar fought him? Is that considered Canon? Comics and novels are only canon for the worldstates they’re compatible with. Other worldstates had similar events, but not quite the same. They had to pick a worldstate due to the constraints of the medium, but it’s not the worldstate. For example, my canon Warden put Anora on the throne and killed Shale. It’s safe to say the adventures in the comics and novels proceeded slightly differently in my worldstate.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Nov 29, 2018 0:54:09 GMT
Comics and novels are only canon for the worldstates they’re compatible with. Other worldstates had similar events, but not quite the same. They had to pick a worldstate due to the constraints of the medium, but it’s not the worldstate. Again, Sten as arishok is referenced in DAI regardless of your import, as are the events in Asunder (via Cole), which are reliant on Wynne being alive.
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Post by arvaarad on Nov 29, 2018 13:29:45 GMT
Comics and novels are only canon for the worldstates they’re compatible with. Other worldstates had similar events, but not quite the same. They had to pick a worldstate due to the constraints of the medium, but it’s not the worldstate. Again, Sten as arishok is referenced in DAI regardless of your import, as are the events in Asunder (via Cole), which are reliant on Wynne being alive. Yep, I was more responding to the Alistair part.
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Post by 10k on Dec 2, 2018 1:00:01 GMT
They already retcon the Qun, so why not retcon Sten?
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 2, 2018 5:51:35 GMT
They already retcon the Qun, so why not retcon Sten? In what way?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2018 5:58:17 GMT
They already retcon the Qun, so why not retcon Sten? In what way? I almost guarantee their answer will involve transgendered people.
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Andraste_Reborn
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 2, 2018 6:52:50 GMT
I almost guarantee their answer will involve transgendered people. Oh, right!
It's been so long since we had someone making that silly argument around here (at least in a thread I was in) that I somehow forgot.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 2, 2018 9:21:13 GMT
I almost guarantee their answer will involve transgendered people. Whilst you are probably right, it is fair to say there are other aspects of the Qun that seem to have been changed from DAO. For example, back then the history of the Qunari Wars recalls how they wore impressive shining silver armour, suggesting they may have developed superior metalwork. Now the Qunari barely wear any armour at all and what they do wear is neither shining nor silver. Then there was the Spoils of the Qunari item pack with the ridiculously OTT decorations and bed that seemed more like a foreigner's (particularly Orlesian) fantasy of what it would be like than what you would expect from a civilisation that is all about utility and practicality. Once again the examples of Qunari armour did not fit the description we had been given in DAO. Still I suppose you could argue that wasn't so much a retcon as a change of direction that could be explained by the Qunari having developed a different style since they arrived in the Steel Age.
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Post by melbella on Dec 2, 2018 16:52:55 GMT
back then the history of the Qunari Wars recalls how they wore impressive shining silver armour, suggesting they may have developed superior metalwork. Now the Qunari barely wear any armour at all and what they do wear is neither shining nor silver. We've never actually seen qunari going to war though. Even Iron Bull says beware the antaam wearing armor when Dorian comments about his outfit. In DA2, it was the Arishok on a mission of retrieval and got shipwrecked. The qunari we see in Trespasser are spies, working in secret. If we see major military offensives by the qunari in the next game and they aren't wearing their shining armor, then it's a retcon.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2018 17:05:34 GMT
I almost guarantee their answer will involve transgendered people. Whilst you are probably right, it is fair to say there are other aspects of the Qun that seem to have been changed from DAO. For example, back then the history of the Qunari Wars recalls how they wore impressive shining silver armour, suggesting they may have developed superior metalwork. Now the Qunari barely wear any armour at all and what they do wear is neither shining nor silver. Then there was the Spoils of the Qunari item pack with the ridiculously OTT decorations and bed that seemed more like a foreigner's (particularly Orlesian) fantasy of what it would be like than what you would expect from a civilisation that is all about utility and practicality. Once again the examples of Qunari armour did not fit the description we had been given in DAO. Still I suppose you could argue that wasn't so much a retcon as a change of direction that could be explained by the Qunari having developed a different style since they arrived in the Steel Age. back then the history of the Qunari Wars recalls how they wore impressive shining silver armour, suggesting they may have developed superior metalwork. Now the Qunari barely wear any armour at all and what they do wear is neither shining nor silver. We've never actually seen qunari going to war though. Even Iron Bull says beware the antaam wearing armor when Dorian comments about his outfit. In DA2, it was the Arishok on a mission of retrieval and got shipwrecked. The qunari we see in Trespasser are spies, working in secret. If we see major military offensives by the qunari in the next game and they aren't wearing their shining armor, then it's a retcon. Well, it is stated in Trespasser that the dead Qunari we found at the beginning was in full warrior armor. But the epilogue slide about the Qunari also shows them in what looks like armor more closely matching the old description. It's possible that they have different armor styles that est suit each role(the images in the Deception comic that's coming out this month also suggest this). Plus remember unlike the Mass Effect Codex the Dragon Age Codex is written more subjectively from the people observing them, so it is quite possible the Qunari adopted a different style of armor for actual war. After all it has been a few hundred years and we know the Qunari aren't stagnant in their development.
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Post by melbella on Dec 2, 2018 19:24:31 GMT
the Dragon Age Codex is written more subjectively from the people observing them, so it is quite possible the Qunari adopted a different style of armor for actual war. After all it has been a few hundred years and we know the Qunari aren't stagnant in their development. Yeah, the time between last seeing the qunari go to war and the present is rather long. It's unlikely the qunari would wear the same thing anyway, though their "official war armor" might still be shiny.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 2, 2018 19:50:39 GMT
the Dragon Age Codex is written more subjectively from the people observing them, so it is quite possible the Qunari adopted a different style of armor for actual war. After all it has been a few hundred years and we know the Qunari aren't stagnant in their development. Yeah, the time between last seeing the qunari go to war and the present is rather long. It's unlikely the qunari would wear the same thing anyway, though their "official war armor" might still be shiny. It looks like it can be shiny(from the preview of Dragon Age: Deception Issue 3):
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 3, 2018 3:53:35 GMT
We've never actually seen qunari going to war though. Even Iron Bull says beware the antaam wearing armor when Dorian comments about his outfit. In DA2, it was the Arishok on a mission of retrieval and got shipwrecked. The qunari we see in Trespasser are spies, working in secret. If we see major military offensives by the qunari in the next game and they aren't wearing their shining armor, then it's a retcon. I wouldn't use the word "retcon," but I also don't fully agree with your conceit here because of what we know about qunari development for the games. We know that the qunari we see in DAO appeared as they did due to resource and/or technical limitations. In Sten's Fade sequence, they are wearing massive armor of the same type that we see elsewhere in the game, which seems an unlikely occurrence (if you consider a "real" situation). In addition, we know that Sten's lack of horns is due to technical issues with helmets; his qunari compatriots are also hornless. The devs went with it and decided to make hornless qunari rare, a sign that such a child is destined to be significant or special in some way. I don't believe that what we see of qunari in DAO is what the devs had envisioned for the race or culture, but that's what we have because of various limitations. DA2 was also fraught with resource limitations. The entire qunari race, except for a few significant NPCs, is comprised of homogeneous clones. However, we see the first indications of the qunari cultural "style" with shapes and colors. We see similar treatment with elven culture in DA2, which was also expanded on to a more deliberate cultural style. DAI continued, and expanded, the cultural style and appearance of the qunari that began in DA2. It seems clear to me that the current qunari style and trappings are the natural development over a series of three games. I don't like to use "retcon" for this because, to me, this is how the qunari were meant to be portrayed all along.
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TheEmptyRoad
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Honor is a fool's prize, glory is no use to the dead.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: The3mptyRoad
PSN: TheEmptyRoad
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Post by TheEmptyRoad on Dec 3, 2018 5:39:49 GMT
I for one, find the possibility of Stenishok being one of the main adversaries absolutely delightful, if they do him right. His codex entries and WoT Vol.2 indicate that, especially compared to the previous guy, Stenishok is smart. He is always thinking, always questioning, always analyzing, always strategizing. It wouldn't surprise me if the Gaatlok plan wasn't at least partially his brainchild. Him + Rasaan = Holy Shit this gonna be good!
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2018 12:24:28 GMT
I don’t have much of a problem with Sten being canonically the Arishok. Leliana was in a far murkier situation, and the epilogue slides aren’t really considered canon by Bioware (not to mention there’s still a reasonable possibility he escapes.) What I do want is slight changes based on what happened to him in DAO, never recruited/recruited without finding his sword/finding his sword. In a similar way to Wrex as Mordin’s quest results in ME2, for ME3.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 3, 2018 12:25:02 GMT
I hope we aren’t forced to have to side with one or even one or the other. Because you don’t want to help either?
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Dec 3, 2018 15:16:47 GMT
I hope we aren’t forced to have to side with one or even one or the other. Because you don’t want to help either? I just don’t like when options are removed or limited needlessly. Personally I’m hoping to be able to help reformers in both.
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 3, 2018 21:29:55 GMT
I don’t have much of a problem with Sten being canonically the Arishok. Leliana was in a far murkier situation, and the epilogue slides aren’t really considered canon by Bioware (not to mention there’s still a reasonable possibility he escapes.) What I do want is slight changes based on what happened to him in DAO, never recruited/recruited without finding his sword/finding his sword. In a similar way to Wrex as Mordin’s quest results in ME2, for ME3. I agree, wasn't till you mentioned the sword quest That I thought Sten didn't die forgot about that.
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