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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 5, 2018 22:57:45 GMT
My wife enjoyed watching me play in Rome with Ezio I certainly enjoyed playing in Greece with Kassandra...
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Post by Andrew Waples on Dec 5, 2018 23:04:26 GMT
Then what's the point of revealing a teaser trailer now? Just to get the critics to shut up? They realize that it's four long years since the release of Trespasser?
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 5, 2018 23:06:19 GMT
Then what's the point of revealing a teaser trailer now? Just to get the critics to shut up? They realize that it's four long years since the release of Trespasser? 3, actually. It's been 4 since the main game release.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 5, 2018 23:40:35 GMT
We all want a new Dragon Age. That is a unifying factor that some of us are conveniently forgetting, for "reasons". You are giving far too much credit to people who are advocating ridiculous theories no reasonable person would ever have any reason to want to believe. Ridiculous like say...Jason's "sources" telling us we weren't getting any DLC? Nobody wanted to believe that shit but it happened right?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 5, 2018 23:40:52 GMT
Again, my beef is with Electronic Arts, not BioWare. I'm not going on Twitter threatening to murder Patrick Weekes' children. I'm just angry and disappointed at being disregarded by faceless suits.
EA hasn't done anything to you either - you are being extremely hyperbolic. The original plan was to have DA4 pre-2020. The original plan for SWTOR for the Valkorian storyline was to have 3 expansions with chapters between not just two expansions with two years waiting for the next expansion. Anthem originally was meant to be out fall 2017, then Fall 2018, now early 2019. Stuff happened, and they didn't do it to hurt you or cus they disregard you but because making video games is hard and it's hard to plan ahead accurately.And it's better for them to delay or change plans, then crunch their workers to exhaustion. Which would be the only other option. What exactly is so different about the video game industry that makes it so difficult to project accurate time frames for projects? This problem is not at all common in film or any other industry I've ever heard of.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 5, 2018 23:58:52 GMT
EA hasn't done anything to you either - you are being extremely hyperbolic. The original plan was to have DA4 pre-2020. The original plan for SWTOR for the Valkorian storyline was to have 3 expansions with chapters between not just two expansions with two years waiting for the next expansion. Anthem originally was meant to be out fall 2017, then Fall 2018, now early 2019. Stuff happened, and they didn't do it to hurt you or cus they disregard you but because making video games is hard and it's hard to plan ahead accurately.And it's better for them to delay or change plans, then crunch their workers to exhaustion. Which would be the only other option. What exactly is so different about the video game industry that makes it so difficult to project accurate time frames for projects? This problem is not at all common in film or any other industry I've ever heard of.3 Even as a layman I can see major differences between gaming and other entertainment industry branches - in short, it's a matter of how differently they're distributed, how much differently we consume them and how many more moving parts there are in games themselves in order for them to actually... well... work.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 0:07:38 GMT
What exactly is so different about the video game industry that makes it so difficult to project accurate time frames for projects? This problem is not at all common in film or any other industry I've ever heard of.3 Even as a layman I can see major differences between gaming and other entertainment industry branches - in short, it's a matter of how differently they're distributed, how much differently we consume them and how many more moving parts there are in games themselves in order for them to actually... well... work. How do games have anymore moving parts than movies? You need to break that down a little more. Ironman 3 had over 3300 crew members. That's a lot of moving parts! There is no concernable difference between a game and a movie. Anything you apply to a game can be applied to a movie.
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Post by Andrew Waples on Dec 6, 2018 0:08:31 GMT
Then what's the point of revealing a teaser trailer now? Just to get the critics to shut up? They realize that it's four long years since the release of Trespasser? 3, actually. It's been 4 since the main game release. Trespasser was released on September 8th 2015. The villania base game was released on November 18th 2014.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 6, 2018 0:10:27 GMT
3, actually. It's been 4 since the main game release. Trespasser was released on September 8th 2015. The villania base game was released on November 18th 2014. It's 2018. It will be 4 years since the release of Trespasser on September 2019.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 6, 2018 0:11:20 GMT
It’s been four fucking years since the release of DAI. Add a MINIMUM of three years on to that and you have a wait of seven fucking years. And this isn’t all development time; this is “let’s shuttle Dragon Age to the side so we can work on other properties!” I think a little anger is warranted. Can't say if the final product will be as good, but people waited 7 years for Red Dead Redemption 2. Hell, you've got Kingdom Hearts fans waiting 12+ years for the next numbered game in the series. As a Kingdom Hearts fan, I'm not happy about that either, but to be clear: the smaller games that have been released between KH2 and KH3 are part of the main story, and contain extremely relevant information. Anyone who's waiting for KH3 and has avoided playing Birth By Sleep, 358/2 Days or Dream Drop Distance will be missing a lot of context when the game comes out. Plus, gathering up the previous games (which were scattered across various platforms), and bundling them together in remasters for current consoles, while also including new content in the form of a (bad) film and some (awesome) new playable content has done a lot to alleviate any negative feelings in the KH fandom. It's not as though the franchise hasn't been worked on at all. Square Enix has had something to demonstrate, and that makes all the difference. Compare to, say, another Square Enix offering: FFXV, which started development in 2006 as "FF Versus XIII", was stuck in development hell for nigh on a decade, got a new director, scrapped/changed so much of what little we had seen (including cutting out advertised "major characters"), to the point that the new product was completely unrecognisable, and was re-branded as a new major instalment in the series, which it had never been intended to be. Nobody could claim that FFXV been 'rushed', and yet the final product is completely directionless, riddled with gaping plot holes that no amount of DLC could possibly fill (though that didn't stop them from trying!), suffers from limited, repetitive, combat (with even less strategy than FF XIII, which was a major complaint about that instalment at the time), and unfulfilling side content. Reviewers may have lauded FFXV as a "return to form" for the series, but the polish wore off that turd pretty quickly, and I don't know any long-term fans who are anything other than disappointed. FFXV is the first game in the series that I ever actually disliked, and the only game I've ever seen, period, that honestly deserves to be criticised as "incomplete". The planned second year of DLC has been cancelled, and the overwhelming reaction among fans is one of relief. Nobody wants more of FFXV.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 6, 2018 0:26:09 GMT
Following those events, the developer has not put a substantial amount of work into a new Dragon Age. BioWare needs a hit, so the entire studio is putting its efforts into ensuring a successful launch for Anthem. Sorry but i am still not interested in buying Anthem. I don´t care for this game. I care for DA 4. Its crazy that such financially successful game like DAI has so much problems to get a sequel. But maybe the planned DA 4 was too similar to Mass Effect Andromeda so EA axe it.
Indeed I don't care for Anthem either and whilst I hope Bioware finds success with it it's not a game I'll be picking up. DAI for me was a very good game for the most part and is one of my favourites so I was kind of hoping something sooner than this but I guess we'll have to soldier on with the ME's and DA's we've already got for a fair bit longer than expected. I just hope it's damn good to make the extra wait worthwhile if this is true. I'd have thought at the very least they'd want to finish what they started with DAI though
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Dec 6, 2018 0:26:12 GMT
*looks in*
Oh really? Reminds me of the TLJ sequels. They took 7 years each to appear and what appeared was just presentable, but then the devs were not so well financed so the lacks are forgiveable.
Malaka. *shrug* Whatever. Not going to bother with whatever's churning over at Bioware, their present course doesn't interest me. In the meantime, going back to Greece with Kassandra and onwards. *leaping back onto Phobos*
Away Phobos!
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Dec 6, 2018 0:28:43 GMT
As unlikely this rumor sounds, I'd rather the devs not put themselves through inhumane crunch hours to get it out the door quickly just so they can appease impatient fans. If it means 3 years, then fine by me. True but the devs tend to do this anyway especially close to launch tim on a game.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 6, 2018 0:30:13 GMT
Even as a layman I can see major differences between gaming and other entertainment industry branches - in short, it's a matter of how differently they're distributed, how much differently we consume them and how many more moving parts there are in games themselves in order for them to actually... well... work. How do games have anymore moving parts than movies? You need to break that down a little more. Ironman 3 had over 3300 crew members. That's a lot of moving parts! There is no concernable difference between a game and a movie. Anything you apply to a game can be applied to a movie. Ironman may have had over 3300 crew members, but you don't need even a fraction of those crew members or a specialized platform (console or a computer that can handle games) in order to watch movies. All the work they've done is basically locked into fast-moving frames, with little to no worry that you start watching the movie on your DVD, streaming service or go to the cinema and suddenly this happens: Or this: Or this: I mean... is it really that hard to break down this yourself once you give it a second or two of thought? Movies at large don't have to worry about movie-breaking bugs, about constantly evolving tech, about consoles, about specs, patches or DLCS (nevermind the whole aspect of being able to play games for hours, while movies are largely limited to maybe 2-3 hours of plain viewing). Also - all those 3300 crew members for Ironman have worked in an already well-established industry that has worked out a lot of its kinks for almost a century, NOR is as sensitive to tech changes as the gaming industry is. Because even with its reliance on CG these days, this most CG ultimately has to be rendered ONCE and put in the movie and (on rare occasion) it ain't such a hurdle to correct things - it's completely different in games, where EVERYTHING is CG, EVERYTHING is interactive at least on some level and it has to be tested thoroughly for it to work on chosen game platforms, because fixing one bug can break 100 different things. Take DAI for example. One of the biggest headaches that has taken them a ton of time and resources (aside from moving on a new engine with little to no RPG-building tools) was porting the game on 5 platforms... What would be even an equivalent of that for a movie? Changing the ratio for viewing in a specific cinema? How often is that done (answer - not that often) and how much work does this take to change ratio or resolution for already made movie compared to working for months to adjust the game to a specific architecture and then Q&A test it in order to check it if it works? And then - when it turns out that old-gen spec just can't handle the game a PC or PS4 version can you have to go back and reconfigure things in the too in order for games on all platforms to be roughly the same? ANd then there's' certification for consoles. What is even an equivalent of that in the movie industry? What is equivalent in the movie industry for even waiting or aligning game releases with new console releases, or new graphics card drivers or making stuff on newer engines and so on?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 0:37:59 GMT
That's because all the bugs are worked out before the movie release. Something most Devs don't care about these days. You really think a Marvel movie would look the way they do without all the hard work put in to the technical side of it?
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 6, 2018 0:41:14 GMT
*brainless prattling about FFXV* ... combat (with even less strategy than FF XIII, which was a major complaint about that instalment at the time) ... Nobody wants more of FFXV. 1. FFXIII receives a ton of praise for its combat, which is considered among the best in the series because of the amount of strategic depth. It's almost like anyone whining about it just makes up whatever they want, even if anyone with a brain knows it's bullshit. 2. When someone says "nobody wants [x]", what that really means is that the person saying that is genuinely incapable of acknowledging that other people do not think exactly like him.
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 6, 2018 0:48:09 GMT
That's because all the bugs are worked out before the movie release. Something most Devs don't care about these days. You really think a Marvel movie would look the way they do without all the hard work put in to the technical side of it? I truly hope you are trolling now because somehow I can't believe that you don't understand that there's a difference between watching a movie and playing a game. Like... you realize that there's a difference between maybe spotting some visual bugs in movies and running a game on your computer or console? You realize that the movie doesn't have to RENDER itself when you view it - that it comes to you pre-rendered and set in stone? That the movie you're consuming is just fast-moving flat screenshots that don't require an engine and whole programming architecture to run it?
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 6, 2018 0:51:42 GMT
^^^ NO.
Well-established industry.... Lol.
The movie industry is a constant revolution of the blind leading the blind. Veterans with experience are passed over for the flavor of the day on both sides of the camera.
Creative fights with technical, constantly.
Avengers 4 wrapped, and we start reshoots in January.
GotG2 had an operating budget of over $400 million dollars. This does not include any marketing - that's what it cost to make.
Thinking there are less moving pieces in moviemaking compared to game creation is just lack of understanding of either job tbh. The volume of people involved, the logistics, the coordination - the scale of effort simply is not comparable.
Game devs complain about "crunch". lmaorofl, making a movie is 6 weeks to 6 months of crunch, all day everyday. 16 hour days, 6 days in a row, come back on Monday after your 36 hour weekend smiling and ready for more.
Yes, we have to squash our bugs as we find them. Or make them. Sometimes we don't find the bug until after production is complete and we thought we were ready for release; no, we will have to do 6 weeks of reshoots to fix all the fuckups we found. Thus, instead of having the luxury of "movies as a service" - where we can release a fucked up movie and patch it later and hope no one gets mad - we have to fix it or hope no one notices. Just like game devs, that hope is futile - the internet will find your flaw.
I of course could not resist this argument.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2018 1:01:29 GMT
That's because all the bugs are worked out before the movie release. Something most Devs don't care about these days. You really think a Marvel movie would look the way they do without all the hard work put in to the technical side of it? I truly hope you are trolling now because somehow I can't believe that you don't understand that there's a difference between watching a movie and playing a game. Like... you realize that there's a difference between maybe spotting some visual bugs in movies and running a game on your computer or console? You realize that the movie doesn't have to RENDER itself when you view it - that it comes to you pre-rendered and set in stone? That the movie you're consuming is just fast-moving flat screenshots that don't require an engine and whole programming architecture to run it? I can say the same to you honestly. You've only showed me games where the developer refused to fix bugs they knew were there. Take any Marvel movie where they have to integrate CGI to real motion, is that easy? You must think it is. Here's an article about Pixar films. venturebeat.com/2013/04/24/the-making-of-pixars-latest-technological-marvel-monsters-university/ "Inside the building is a data center full of humming servers — double the size that the company used in the past — that would be considered one of the top 25 supercomputers in the world. The 2,000 computers have more than 24,000 cores. The data center is like the beating heart behind the movie’s technology. Even with all of that computing might, it still takes 29 hours to render a single frame of Monsters University, according to supervising technical director Sanjay Bakshi. Rendering means that the computers build the 3D world in its full colors as the scene is meant to be viewed in a theater. The machines create the frame and it is then captured as one of thousands of frames in the movie. When you watch the movie, you see anywhere from 24 frames to 60 frames per second."
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Post by biggydx on Dec 6, 2018 1:06:21 GMT
*looks in* Oh really? Reminds me of the TLJ sequels. They took 7 years each to appear and what appeared was just presentable, but then the devs were not so well financed so the lacks are forgiveable. Malaka. *shrug* Whatever. Not going to bother with whatever's churning over at Bioware, their present course doesn't interest me. In the meantime, going back to Greece with Kassandra and onwards. *leaping back onto Phobos* Away Phobos! We get it. You played AC: Odyssey lol
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Post by colfoley on Dec 6, 2018 1:10:04 GMT
*looks in* Oh really? Reminds me of the TLJ sequels. They took 7 years each to appear and what appeared was just presentable, but then the devs were not so well financed so the lacks are forgiveable. Malaka. *shrug* Whatever. Not going to bother with whatever's churning over at Bioware, their present course doesn't interest me. In the meantime, going back to Greece with Kassandra and onwards. *leaping back onto Phobos* Away Phobos! I'm curious: What direction are you talking about by their 'direction?' As of this writing the game hasn't been announced so we do not even know what their direction will be when it comes to a new Dragon Age. All we have to go on is assurances that it will be its own thing from Anthem and it will be familiar to what Dragon Age usually is.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 6, 2018 1:17:46 GMT
Can't say if the final product will be as good, but people waited 7 years for Red Dead Redemption 2. Hell, you've got Kingdom Hearts fans waiting 12+ years for the next numbered game in the series. FFXV is the first game in the series that I ever actually disliked, and the only game I've ever seen, period, that honestly deserves to be criticised as "incomplete". The planned second year of DLC has been cancelled, and the overwhelming reaction among fans is one of relief. Nobody wants more of FFXV. I did.......
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Post by midnight tea on Dec 6, 2018 1:26:38 GMT
It's OK to discuss things. It's not OK to strawman. ^^^ NO. Well-established industry.... Lol. The movie industry is a constant revolution of the blind leading the blind. Veterans with experience are passed over for the flavor of the day on both sides of the camera. Creative fights with technical, constantly. Avengers 4 wrapped, and we start reshoots in January. GotG2 had an operating budget of over $400 million dollars. This does not include any marketing - that's what it cost to make. The fact that there are issues with the movie industry doesn't mean that it isn't well-established. Especially compared to the gaming industry. Hilariously, the insane budgets for movies serve as a proof of that. You don't spend this much money on things that aren't well-established, which also means at least somewhat certain in terms of goals or execution - this is exactly why such a big deal is made out of games with large budgets. And even the most expensive games aren't there yet compared to movies (and I gotta wonder if, with recent perturbations, we won't see budgets for games scaling down). Dude.... after all the work of those specialists is done, to the movie itself is - aside from rare outliers maybe - a series of fast-moving flat screenshots. A movie that is ready for consumption SIMPLY. DOES. NOT. HAVE. MANY. MOVING. PARTS.
That is an indisputable fact. That you strawman me into a position I didn't take or argue does not negate it. I am perfectly aware that making movies is complicated - but it is not as complicated to keep the already-made product actually working. Movies don't have to be rendered and respond to our interactions within it (we're not at that point yet, lol). They don't need gameplay. Or UI, or many other elements games have to have in order to either work or engage. Games require a lot more to simply WORK, nevermind engage player for way more hours than movies or even long TV shows.
That is a very important distinction here. You can try and compare and try and approximate fixing f-ups in movies to squashing bugs in games, but those are simply different products that are consumed differently and have different issues to deal with, hence differences between both industries - even if they share a DNA or a toolbox in terms of creating visual/cinematic content. Games are usually more than visual/cinematic content, hence 'more moving parts'.
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Post by Obsidian Gryphon on Dec 6, 2018 1:31:57 GMT
*looks in* Oh really? Reminds me of the TLJ sequels. They took 7 years each to appear and what appeared was just presentable, but then the devs were not so well financed so the lacks are forgiveable. Malaka. *shrug* Whatever. Not going to bother with whatever's churning over at Bioware, their present course doesn't interest me. In the meantime, going back to Greece with Kassandra and onwards. *leaping back onto Phobos* Away Phobos! I'm curious: What direction are you talking about by their 'direction?' As of this writing the game hasn't been announced so we do not even know what their direction will be when it comes to a new Dragon Age. All we have to go on is assurances that it will be its own thing from Anthem and it will be familiar to what Dragon Age usually is. Ah. By their present course, I meant their intended destination that's coming up; Anthem. <--- me, no interest. Until they turn the wheel and get onto the DA4 road proper, whatever they say is a mere brush of wind. I haven't looked in the DA4 section for quite some time so this thread title tickle my curiosity. My going away reaction after reading is 'meh', whatever. I don't have to look in again until they take out a trumpet and blare; DA4 release date on such and such.
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