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Post by The Elder King on Dec 7, 2018 23:20:22 GMT
This is true and can you imagine the death and destruction that would result from 7 angry elven gods throwing a fit at the same time? It has also just occurred to me that if breaking into the Black City did mess with his plan to contain the Blight, may be it was his sense of irony that caused him to choose Corypheus to unlock his orb for him. Well, he also says he didn't have the power to activate the orb, and that he thought Corypheus might be able to, IIRC, didn't he also expect Corypheus to die when it WAS activated? Which suggests to me that Solas doesn't fully understand how the Blight works, since he didn't anticipate Corypheus moving into another body. Common darkspawn doesn’t posses the power to switch from body to body. Only the archdemons possess this ability, by Wardens knowledge.. Even if Solas knew about it, why would he suspect Corypheus to possess a similar ability? The only other kind encountered before was the Architect, which doesn’t seem to have it.
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 7, 2018 23:33:35 GMT
My thinking is Solas needed Corypheus to die because of whatever taint (magic) that was around him prevented Solas from being able to do that which he wants to do. as that charming phrase goes "the fly in the lotion"
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 7, 2018 23:41:45 GMT
The Olds Gods tricked the Magisters, they promised them power if they breached the Veil, to that end the Old Gods taught the Magisters to use Blood Magic. Corypheus clearly states that the city was already black when he entered, it being golden was the Old Gods lies, and it was black because it housed the Void (Taint). It was golden only according to the Old Gods themselves, which was a lie. dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Chant_of_Light_verses#Canticle_of_Silencedragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Dumat (references WOT1 and WOT2) The Golden City was visible from every part of the Fade, just like the Black city is now. Every Mage and magister could see it. What lay inside he city was the lie. This doesn't make any sense, Fen'Harel went to great lengths to lock the Void away, why make it's prison look golden? This also doesn't necessarily disprove what i said, the Old Gods could have made the black city appear golden. Well, he also says he didn't have the power to activate the orb, and that he thought Corypheus might be able to, IIRC, didn't he also expect Corypheus to die when it WAS activated? Which suggests to me that Solas doesn't fully understand how the Blight works, since he didn't anticipate Corypheus moving into another body. Common darkspawn doesn’t posses the power to switch from body to body. Only the archdemons possess this ability, by Wardens knowledge.. Even if Solas knew about it, why would he suspect Corypheus to possess a similar ability? The only other kind encountered before was the Architect, which doesn’t seem to have it. Solas only recently awoken from his slumber was too weak to unlock the powers of his Orb, so he gave the Orb to Corypheus believing that he would have died in the ensuing explosion, not knowing Corypheus made himself immortal by infusing himself and his dragon with Red Lyrium, so if his body destoyed he would hop to the Red Lyrium Dragon.
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Heimdall
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∯ Interjector in Chief
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Heimdall
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: HeimdallX
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 7, 2018 23:47:14 GMT
The Golden City was visible from every part of the Fade, just like the Black city is now. Every Mage and magister could see it. What lay inside he city was the lie. This doesn't make any sense, Fen'Harel went to great lengths to lock the Void away, why make it's prison look golden? This also doesn't necessarily disprove what i said, the Old Gods could have made the black city appear golden. I wouldn’t assume we understand what the City is, let alone that it was only ever a prison for the taint, but let’s assume for the moment it was Golden from the start. It could have had the corruption placed inside it safely and only become corrupted after the Magisters blew the door open.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 7, 2018 23:54:21 GMT
The Golden City was visible from every part of the Fade, just like the Black city is now. Every Mage and magister could see it. What lay inside he city was the lie. This doesn't make any sense, Fen'Harel went to great lengths to lock the Void away, why make it's prison look golden? This also doesn't necessarily disprove what i said, the Old Gods could have made the black city appear golden. Common darkspawn doesn’t posses the power to switch from body to body. Only the archdemons possess this ability, by Wardens knowledge.. Even if Solas knew about it, why would he suspect Corypheus to possess a similar ability? The only other kind encountered before was the Architect, which doesn’t seem to have it. Solas only recently awoken from his slumber was too weak to unlock the powers of his Orb, so he gave the Orb to Corypheus believing that he would have died in the ensuing explosion, not knowing Corypheus made himself immortal by infusing himself and his dragon with Red Lyrium, so if his body destoyed he would hop to the Red Lyrium Dragon. What I meant was that, regardless if Solas knew about the Taint, he had no way to know that Corypheus possessed that ability, as well as using red lyrium on his dragon as a solution.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 8, 2018 0:39:59 GMT
The Black City (which was never Golden) houses the Void (Blight/Taint) and The Forgotten Ones (The Forbidden Ones?). The Elven Pantheon (Old Gods) act as locks that holds back the Void with the Veil separating between Thedas and the Fade (by product of the Veil). Solas (Fen'Harel) intends to remove the Veil but he can't do that because of the Void, which is why he absorbs Mythal because she knows about the Void from (absorbing?) Andruil. Solas is the reason why the elves were destroyed and the world is a ruin, because of his idiotic mistake of putting up the Veil.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 8, 2018 0:42:36 GMT
Well, he also says he didn't have the power to activate the orb, and that he thought Corypheus might be able to, IIRC, didn't he also expect Corypheus to die when it WAS activated? Which suggests to me that Solas doesn't fully understand how the Blight works, since he didn't anticipate Corypheus moving into another body. Common darkspawn doesn’t posses the power to switch from body to body. Only the archdemons possess this ability, by Wardens knowledge.. Even if Solas knew about it, why would he suspect Corypheus to possess a similar ability? The only other kind encountered before was the Architect, which doesn’t seem to have it. What I was getting when I said that is that I don't think Solas ever had any plan to contain the Blight. He clearly didn't study it much during the long time that he's been alive.
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Post by UutIVvdPw7END0Ef on Dec 8, 2018 1:04:30 GMT
The Black City (which was never Golden) houses the Void (Blight/Taint) and The Forgotten Ones (The Forbidden Ones?). The Elven Pantheon (Old Gods) act as locks that holds back the Void with the Veil separating between Thedas and the Fade (by product of the Veil). Solas (Fen'Harel) intends to remove the Veil but he can't do that because of the Void, which is why he absorbs Mythal because she knows about the Void from (absorbing?) Andruil. Solas is the reason why the elves were destroyed and the world is a ruin, because of his idiotic mistake of putting up the Veil. He made the Veil to seperate the Void from Thedas, i don't think he meant for it to seperate Magic from Thedas, which is why he wants to remove it now but he needs to destory the Void, hence absobring Mythal for that knowledge.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 8, 2018 1:55:41 GMT
Solas is the reason why the elves were destroyed and the world is a ruin, because of his idiotic mistake of putting up the Veil. He made the Veil to seperate the Void from Thedas, i don't think he meant for it to seperate Magic from Thedas, which is why he wants to remove it now but he needs to destory the Void, hence absobring Mythal for that knowledge. Hmmm. I'm not certain that the Void is within the Fade.
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Post by twalicious on Dec 8, 2018 4:46:59 GMT
But... he did everything wrong...
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House Targaryen
N5
The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: gscott7833
Prime Posts: 1,584
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The night is dark and full of terrors, but the fire burns them all away.
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Post by House Targaryen on Dec 8, 2018 5:07:39 GMT
Solas didn't do anything wrong, he's just misunderstood, that is all.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 8, 2018 5:42:28 GMT
Solas sisn't do anything wrong, he's just misunderstood, that is all. #notallelves
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Post by Fredward on Dec 8, 2018 8:36:57 GMT
I think: - the Blight's origin can be traced back to the mining of titans - it's a weird infection/autoimmune response - Mythal called a halt when it was discovered - the other elven gods killed her for this - possibly they were already corrupted Pause here to consider how big of an existential threat the Blight/red lyrium is. The titans are the world's bones so an infection or an autoimmune response might be their way of hitting the reset button on the whole thing ie unavoidable. Something to consider here it how physical the original elves were. Could they be entirely non-physical Fade entities? If so, why does the Blight, which is physical, matter all THAT much? Does the Blight cross the physical boundary? Does the non-physical still need to be anchored in some physical substrate? IIRC there might be something in Inquisition that suggests the elves became dual beings but it's been awhile and I'm not 100% on that bit of lore anymore. - Solas sees the writing on the wall and realizes the Blight cannot be stopped or contained by conventional means - his solution is the Veil - this separates the physical and non-physical at a fundamental level - with a caveat: the infection is localized and/or quarantined in Arlathan before he sepeartes the stuff - physical Arlathan is still in Thedas and w/e - non physical Arlathan is the Golden City, this is where the infection really do be - by creating the Veil Solas hopes there can be no cross contamination between the physical and spiritual worlds Pause to consider that it's probably not a coincidence that if you subtract Mythal and Fen'Harel from the elven pantheon that there's seven left, that there's seven old gods and that there are seven seals in the latest mural. Lets say the Veil went up and these evanuris were sundered, split between a physical form and a spiritual/Fade form. The physical form = the quiescent OGs/archdemons and possibly the spiritual forms are locked up in the Golden City/Arlathan. - the evanuris manipulate the Magisters of ye olde Tevinter to breach the Golden City - this allows them to send the Blight back to the physical world - the Blight is drawn to the evanuris old physical bodies which act as seals, either because the evanuris 'programmed' it that way or because there is something in its inherent nature that is drawn to them - with every dead Archdemon the seal on the Golden City weakens, the Evanuris are closer to getting out and so is the source of the infection. Some things to considerations and problems: how did the Magisters manage to breach the Golden City (however briefly) with all the seals still intact? A possible answers here would be: they were better at magic than Solas gave humans credit for when he raised the Veil. Another thing would be: would Solas really lock up the elven gods with the red lyrium for all eternity? I kinda think so, yeah. If they killed Mythal for it he might have been like "OH WELL IF YOU LIKE IT SO MUCH WHY DON'T YOU MARRY IT" etc and locked them up with it as sorta cosmic justice. It would also mean they're fucking gibberingly insane by now probably. Assuming something like this is the case whether or not Solas has done anything wrong would depend on A) how well he has categorized the level of threat the Blight presents and whether his solution(s) were the only ones on the table and C) he wasn't blinded by his own evaluation of how well he's considered all the options.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 8, 2018 11:34:45 GMT
So my guess is that it was previously golden on the outside, but black within. Yes, exactly. In fact given how our perception of things can alter them in the Fade, it may well have been that because people expected it to be golden, it was, but when the Magisters broke in the illusion was broken and its true nature revealed. I have no doubt that at some point in ancient times it was golden. Everything points to it being the original Arlathan, a place which even the Dalish teach was "a place of knowledge and debate, where the best of the ancient elves would go to trade knowledge, greet old friends, and settle disputes that had gone on for millennia." To me this sounds as though only the Evanuris and the chosen priesthood and elite followers were permitted to go there. The memories in the old library seem to describe a wondrous city of "glass spires" with pearly glowing pathways that hung in the air. Light reflected back from this marvellous city would likely make it gleam like gold. Elves were shown gathering there to listen to debates by spirits of wisdom, so it fits a city that was a half-way house between the mundane world and the Fade. Both the Dalish and ancient Tevinter believed their gods lived in the Golden City. In the case of the former it was called the Eternal City, that I am sure is what was described above, but they definitely believe it is the city that now lies self-contained in the Fade. They also believe that is where Fen'Harel locked their gods away. In the case of the latter there is conflicting evidence of what they believed, as in one version of the assault on the city, the Canticle of Silence, the Magisters go there at the invitation of their gods to receive more power. However, this is Hessarian's political propaganda which may only partly be true. Corypheus' memories seem to suggest, though, that Dumat was no longer answering his prayers and so they went there to investigate why and in his case restore the faith of the people in the priesthood, which had started to wane even before the Blights occurred. Meanwhile Andraste says that it was always the home of the Maker. Since the ancient humans were said to have worshipped the Maker but then later abandoned his worship to focus on the "false" old gods, presumably they must have had associated beliefs about where the Maker was located. Still every version of religion seems to have the Golden City as the home of their god or gods until such time as the Magisters broke in, when it was discovered to be empty, with a vacant throne and corrupted. Incidentally I think the vacant throne was probably that of Mythal, the city builder and leader of the Evanuris in "creating" the world of the elves. In which case the Maker would be Mythal. Another idea found in the in the prophesy of Drakon, is that the Golden City had 7 gates. I find it hard to understand why the Maker would need 7 gates to his city but it would fit the idea of it originally being the Eternal city of the elves, with one gate for each of the original Evanuris (Ghilan'nain and Solas being later additions to the pantheon), and of course there are 7 old gods. If they are the Evanuris then it is likely Ghilan'nain took over the access originally belonging to Mythal after her death. For gate read eluvian.
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Post by isaidlunch on Dec 8, 2018 12:09:31 GMT
I'll be really disappointed if the protagonist can't side with Solas. A world without the Veil sounds beautiful.
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Post by The Elder King on Dec 8, 2018 12:20:42 GMT
I'll be really disappointed if the protagonist can't side with Solas. A world without the Veil sounds beautiful. Considering the series, and the hints given in Trespasser, it won’t be without a cost and consequences. And if those are on the extreme end of the spectrum of possibilities hinted in the dlc, the price might be too high. Not to mention that I prefer to not have a group of tyrannical beings with godly-tier powers rampaging around.
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anarchy65
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by anarchy65 on Dec 8, 2018 16:05:51 GMT
Humanity needs to be exterminated, Solas is right
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Croatsky
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Amateur Reporter
Old BSN veteran, I guess.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: CroGamer002
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Post by Croatsky on Dec 8, 2018 19:46:19 GMT
Make Elves Great Again! MEGA!
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boxofscreaming
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 943 Likes: 1,658
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Post by boxofscreaming on Dec 8, 2018 19:53:03 GMT
Solas can't destroy the Veil - it was created by the Maker and only the Maker could possibly have the power to remove it.
These truths the Maker has revealed to me: As there is but one world, One life, one death, there is But one god, and He is our Maker. They are sinners, who have given their love To false gods.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 8, 2018 20:02:10 GMT
Don't forget the mass murder he committed putting the veil up in the first place... doesn't get a pass just because I didn't meet any of those people. Those people deserved it.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2018 20:16:23 GMT
I'll be really disappointed if the protagonist can't side with Solas. A world without the Veil sounds beautiful. Considering the series, and the hints given in Trespasser, it won’t be without a cost and consequences. And if those are on the extreme end of the spectrum of possibilities hinted in the dlc, the price might be too high. Not to mention that I prefer to not have a group of tyrannical beings with godly-tier powers rampaging around. *Warden Commander Surana pulls her hood up a little further* *whistles towards apocalypse*
What? What?
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Post by PapaCharlie9 on Dec 8, 2018 20:42:30 GMT
Make Elves Great Again! MEGA!Most memeable idea ever. Slap a MEGA hat on Solas ...
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 8, 2018 21:37:24 GMT
Corypheus made himself immortal by infusing himself and his dragon with Red Lyrium, so if his body destoyed he would hop to the Red Lyrium Dragon. Except Corypheus didn't jump to the dragon when his body was destroyed in the Temple of Mythal but to the nearest Grey Warden. This is what also occurred in Legacy after Hawke "killed" him. This is the odd part of his ability. Either the Architect revived off stage so to speak after you kill him or Cory possessed the ability but the Architect didn't. Morrigan claimed it was his soul sharing with the dragon that meant he couldn't be killed but that would suggest he must have done this prior to being imprisoned by the Grey Wardens or he wouldn't have soul jumped to the warden like he did in Legacy. It does seem odd that Solas would not suspect that an ancient magister infused with red lyrium would not be able to cheat death, particularly as he had apparently survived for over a thousand years. However, when Bianca met him he just appeared to be a normal Grey Warden so may be that is what confused Solas, or more likely his follower charged with finding someone to crack open the orb.
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Post by gervaise21 on Dec 8, 2018 21:43:37 GMT
Those people deserved it. Which people? The poor souls in the ancient library who suddenly found the structure falling apart around them? Those in other similar structures built on magic which would have disintegrated. The slaves who got trapped in the Crossroads and starved to death? (see Masked Empire). The ordinary elves who were suddenly part of a civil war caused by the chaos of the leadership being suddenly removed? None of these people deserved death.
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Post by phoray on Dec 8, 2018 21:55:45 GMT
Those people deserved it. Which people? The poor souls in the ancient library who suddenly found the structure falling apart around them? Those in other similar structures built on magic which would have disintegrated. The slaves who got trapped in the Crossroads and starved to death? (see Masked Empire). The ordinary elves who were suddenly part of a civil war caused by the chaos of the leadership being suddenly removed? None of these people deserved death. I think smilesja was teasing.
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