inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,701
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Jan 21, 2019 0:48:48 GMT
There was no homophobia in Thedas til Gaider thought it was a brilliant idea to do a conversion therapy backstory for his character, that is a fact (without forgetting that stupid "its because I'm a man" line from Fenris romance). It's something this fictional world didnt need AT ALL. Like the tiny bit of racism in Vivienne story, what the fuck was that. Give me drama but not that kind of lazy ass drama. So glad Gaider is gone for good. But I'll leave this here because I'm so tired I want to strip my eyes out lol I sort of have two minds about it. I did really viscerally relate to Dorian, and that felt good. I have a similarly murky situation with my own... errr... Halward. I can’t really put into words how cathartic it was to address that greyness and have a writer saying “yeah, this shit happens sometimes, and it’s deeply emotionally confusing to love someone and also realize they did this kind of stuff, while also also realizing they’re a product of their culture, and dammit they’re trying, but you’re still not sure whether it should be ‘enough’, whether reconciling will help you feel better or worse.” I start sobbing every time I see even a video of the confrontation scene. No other scene, in games, movies, books, gets me so emotionally invested. But it does also feel good to be in fantasy worlds where none of the real world nonsense exists. It’s genuinely hard for me to pick!  I still remember the sensation the first time I played Dream Askew at a con, and my character could be “they” without a GM trying to figure out what they “really” were. And all the other players casually calling my character “they”, without any difficulty. It probably sounds so minor. But it was like a weight being lifted that I never realized I’d been carrying. I thought I’d been fine with that before, but I hadn’t truly grasped what it would feel like if it wasn’t there. That whole game is like getting a big warm hug. If any of you are tabletop players (and I know some of you are lol), I highly recommend it. |
|
inherit
ღ I am a golem. Obviously.
440
0
25,791
phoray
Gotta be kiddin me
13,212
August 2016
phoray
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by phoray on Jan 21, 2019 0:49:44 GMT
I'm cool with Gay people not having the baby baggage (I'm pretty sure Sera doesn't?)
Actually, that's kinda weird. My interpretation of social pressures is the female always being like, "where are your kids?" to other females. So it's weird that it's two gay men who have been having this pressure put on them? or is this obervation bias since I'm female and always have this question asked of me?
Anyway, but I do worry that removing the chance of baby baggage does remove the Gay Prince some folks are wanting. The Nobility in Tevinter are mages, full stop. So if you want a Gay Prince, it may be built in?
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,026
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jan 21, 2019 0:50:45 GMT
There was no homophobia in Thedas til Gaider thought it was a brilliant idea to do a conversion therapy backstory for his character, that is a fact (without forgetting that stupid "its because I'm a man" line from Fenris romance). It's something this fictional world didnt need AT ALL. Like the tiny bit of racism in Vivienne story, what the fuck was that. Give me drama but not that kind of lazy ass drama. So glad Gaider is gone for good. But I'll leave this here because I'm so tired I want to strip my eyes out lol There was no homophobia present in southern Thedas, but that does not mean there was never any homophobia in Thedas whatsoever.
The only examples of blatant homophobia we've seen have come from Tevinter, a place that unlike the rest of Thedas, still practices slavery, has a separate Chantry, is still actively at war with the Qunari and operates as a magocracy. Tevinter being less tolerant of homosexuality doesn't seem at all out of step with how they have been repeatedly shown to have different cultural and societal values to the rest of Thedas as a whole.
We cannot accuse this of being a blatant retcon either by Bioware/Gaider, because most of our knowledge of Tevinter (until DA2 and Inquisition) had only come via codex entries and second-hand information from the very few Tevinter enemies we fought.
Fenris was one of our first real insights into Tevinter, but his perception was definitely clouded by bitterness and resentment for his time as a slave, as well as the abuse he suffered at the hands of Danarius. Fenris therefore only saw the more negative side to Tevinter society and mages. Dorian gave us another side, highlighting the more positive aspects and virtues of Tevinter, while acknowledging the obvious hypocrisy and corruption that permeates throughout their society.
Until we go to Tevinter and see first-hand what their deal is, we can't really know the whole picture when it comes to how Tevinter treats slavery or homosexuality.
Still, the way that Gaider framed Dorian's story and the sexual abuse that Fenris suffered at the hands of Danarius, there's the implication that same-sex relations are permitted in Tevinter as long as it's done discretely behind closed doors. As long as you put up the facade of heterosexuality in public, marry and produce heirs to carry on your family line, everyone will look the other way about what you do in private.
It was Dorian's refusal to maintain that obvious fiction simply to make others feel comfortable, far more than his "deviant" sexuality (at least how Tevinter viewed it), that seems to have sparked the initial conflict with his father. Halward seemed far more concerned with Dorian carrying on the family legacy than anything else, only considering using blood magic to "fix" him when Dorian's refusal to hide his sexuality presented an impassable roadblock, hampering his efforts to marry him off.
|
|
inherit
A Knight in Fluffy Armor
3131
0
8,505
Dirk
Quite oneirophobic
1,905
January 2017
dirkjake
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by Dirk on Jan 21, 2019 0:55:52 GMT
Regarding homosexuality in Thedas, there is this one codex entry  Regardless, I don't want gay romances in DA4 to have to deal with any homophobia whatsoever. |
|
inherit
1824
0
11,654
Davrin's boobs
#WerewolfLIforDA5 LMAO
2,689
Oct 19, 2016 19:24:39 GMT
October 2016
nickclark89
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by Davrin's boobs on Jan 21, 2019 0:56:03 GMT
I really hope Bioware does a Thedas version of the Gillette ad in one of the straight male romances, I cant wait.  |
|
inherit
1824
0
11,654
Davrin's boobs
#WerewolfLIforDA5 LMAO
2,689
Oct 19, 2016 19:24:39 GMT
October 2016
nickclark89
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by Davrin's boobs on Jan 21, 2019 1:03:24 GMT
Regarding homosexuality in Thedas, there is this one codex entry Regardless, I don't want gay romances in DA4 to have to deal with any homophobia whatsoever. Oh fuck I forgot about this entry. Like thank you Bioware for saying I'm a freak, a deviant or I should not speak loud out or being proud about it in certain places of Thedas, now I can roleplay without issues...  blegh it's like they need a reason for us to exist, Bioware needs to stop thinking about nasty dudebros...
|
|
qunaripenis
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: QunariPeen
Posts: 248 Likes: 665
inherit
3475
0
Nov 25, 2024 22:39:27 GMT
665
qunaripenis
248
February 2017
qunaripenis
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Mass Effect Andromeda
QunariPeen
|
Post by qunaripenis on Jan 21, 2019 1:08:32 GMT
Yeah, wanted to work that into my post about Dorian, but forgot to. Just like his story it seemed too sudden and immersion breaking. Like - "wait, Thedas discriminates based on skin colour too?" Her being a mage already put her at a disadvantage, they didn't really need to mix racism in :/ I hope they'll leave that alone. Just like I'm hoping that they keep the gay and bi male LIs away from Tevinter's bs. Make them outsiders, who don't even have to consider all that noise. and if he is from tevinter he better be a boss ass bitch rebel! it would be nice! i'm taking dave's request to my heart and where is my gay gladiator   
|
|
inherit
1824
0
11,654
Davrin's boobs
#WerewolfLIforDA5 LMAO
2,689
Oct 19, 2016 19:24:39 GMT
October 2016
nickclark89
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by Davrin's boobs on Jan 21, 2019 1:12:36 GMT
 Henry Simmons is a recent discovery, where was he all my life lol gay KISA, gay werewolf, gay Isabela-like pirate and gay gladiator are just in my top (  ) list right now
|
|
melbella
N7
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: melbella
Prime Posts: 2186
Prime Likes: 5778
Posts: 8,423 Likes: 26,142
inherit
214
0
26,142
melbella
Trouble-shooting Space Diva
8,423
August 2016
melbella
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
melbella
2186
5778
|
Post by melbella on Jan 21, 2019 1:21:13 GMT
I mean... maybe it falls into that category of finding anything to pull at to make fun of? Her being a mage already put her at a disadvantage She's a commoner....that's all Orlesian nobles would need to know to think they're better than her. 
|
|
inherit
Champion of Kirkwall
1212
0
8,026
Sifr
3,737
Aug 25, 2016 20:05:11 GMT
August 2016
sifr
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
|
Post by Sifr on Jan 21, 2019 2:00:44 GMT
Henry Simmons is a recent discovery, where was he all my life lol I only knew him from Agents of Shield, so the surprise of seeing him as a half-naked gladiator... damn!  
|
|
inherit
507
0
Jun 21, 2021 22:15:41 GMT
5,802
Artemis
Somewhere, out there...
2,630
August 2016
artemis
CuriousArtemis
curiousartemis
|
Post by Artemis on Jan 21, 2019 2:08:45 GMT
Henry Simmons is a recent discovery, where was he all my life lol I only knew him from Agents of Shield, so the surprise of seeing him as a half-naked gladiator... damn! Oh, RIGHT!! Oh man I'm definitely in love with him on AoS ♡
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,701
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Jan 21, 2019 2:14:24 GMT
Regarding homosexuality in Thedas, there is this one codex entry Regardless, I don't want gay romances in DA4 to have to deal with any homophobia whatsoever. Oh fuck I forgot about this entry. Like thank you Bioware for saying I'm a freak, a deviant or I should not speak loud out or being proud about it in certain places of Thedas, now I can roleplay without issues... blegh it's like they need a reason for us to exist, Bioware needs to stop thinking about nasty dudebros... I truly, truly can’t recommend Dream Askew highly enough, if you want a break from that. I had never heard of it, got into the game by accident when a Fiasco gamerunner was a no-show. Cut to 4 hours later and it had fully cracked my egg. Plus it’s an incredibly well designed game. It manages to have collaborative storytelling, tension, and drama like Fiasco, except all the characters can be super wholesome instead of being awful people. To be clear, I still love Fiasco too, but Dream Askew is really special. Never did I expect a tabletop RPG to so gently, lovingly, and supportively tell me “hey friend, that feeling you’ve been feeling your whole life? Surprise! It’s dysphoria. Now let’s get back to the floating post-apocalyptic homebase where everyone supports each other and you’re helping the cyberpunk religious leader make peace with their own mortality.” Not only is the game explicitly, actively built on GSM characters, it also doesn’t concern itself with having to maintain an aggressive, traditional “combat/fighting is a core mechanic” posture. You can fight if you want, but a whole game can easily go by with every character just being really helpful and friendly, and it’s... nice, actually. It reminds me of playing pretend when I was very young, before I started seeing stuff that told me every pretend had to involve conflict. This dang game is so Good on so many different axes, I wish it got more attention in the tabletop community. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
Deleted
inherit
guest@proboards.com
584
0
Deleted
0
January 1970
Deleted
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2019 2:27:34 GMT
I gotta say Gay KISA is still my top request, but escaped slave gladiator is my Second pick now!  |
|
inherit
1439
0
Nov 26, 2024 20:20:12 GMT
13,451
witchcocktor
4,283
Sept 6, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
September 2016
witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by witchcocktor on Jan 21, 2019 3:17:00 GMT
Gay elves!
|
|
leadintea
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 292 Likes: 434
inherit
1012
0
Sept 25, 2024 20:14:04 GMT
434
leadintea
292
Aug 16, 2016 14:43:51 GMT
August 2016
leadintea
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by leadintea on Jan 21, 2019 3:30:50 GMT
In regards to the racism/homophobia, someone once asked Gaider (either on the old BSN or on his tumblr) about why Gamlen was making homophobic comments about Hawke if they were in a s/s romance despite Thedas being a fairly tolerant place towards LGBT folk and Gaider said something to the effect of people still having their own individual opinions about things that can run counter to society's standards and that's how I choose to take the Marquis' comments towards Vivienne - he may be a racist himself/made a racist remark, but racism based on skin color is not something that's rampant, or even a noteworthy mention, socially speaking, in Thedas.
And since someone mentioned it, as a black person, I honestly didn't mind the Marquis' comment at all. In fact, I was actually fairly surprised that Bioware had the balls to include something like that in DAI and I wouldn't mind having characters that are douchebags like him or Gamlen, provided that their comments and any reactions towards them, fit the world of Thedas. The Marquis even got his comeuppance in Vivienne's recruitment scene where she embarrassed him much more (especially if you let her handle the situation) than his comment did towards her.
|
|
inherit
1439
0
Nov 26, 2024 20:20:12 GMT
13,451
witchcocktor
4,283
Sept 6, 2016 10:00:37 GMT
September 2016
witchcocktor
Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by witchcocktor on Jan 21, 2019 3:44:09 GMT
Sometimes I'm very conflicted about homophobia in fantasy worlds. On one hand, no please stop why, but on the other, why should this trait be exempt from ignorant behavior, when most fantasy worlds and their story-telling is built on ignorance and whatnot. I think I honestly draw the line at when such an instance become's prevalent in someone's storyline, like in Dorian's case. But things like Gamlen, you know, whatever, he is a cockbag.
|
|
inherit
1824
0
11,654
Davrin's boobs
#WerewolfLIforDA5 LMAO
2,689
Oct 19, 2016 19:24:39 GMT
October 2016
nickclark89
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Dragon Age The Veilguard
|
Post by Davrin's boobs on Jan 21, 2019 4:11:41 GMT
I'm gonna step out of this thread for a while, this day has been so draining I just cant. But I only wanna say that it's wrong to have that kind of thinking, not saying you can not do a story based on homophobia or racism, especially if you are telling this story to educate people, but Thedas didnt need this shit at all. And seeing people belonging to said collectives building bridges for this kind of stuff just terrifies me. I dont want to hear or read a bigot say that homophobia/racism is fine in Thedas just because a poc/gay person said it. Stop it. White people never gonna see this for being white in videogames, straight people never gonna see this for being straight in videogames. It's lazy ass writing, it's lazy ass drama, period.
|
|
inherit
507
0
Jun 21, 2021 22:15:41 GMT
5,802
Artemis
Somewhere, out there...
2,630
August 2016
artemis
CuriousArtemis
curiousartemis
|
Post by Artemis on Jan 21, 2019 4:17:38 GMT
Sometimes I'm very conflicted about homophobia in fantasy worlds. On one hand, no please stop why, but on the other, why should this trait be exempt from ignorant behavior, when most fantasy worlds and their story-telling is built on ignorance and whatnot. I think I honestly draw the line at when such an instance become's prevalent in someone's storyline, like in Dorian's case. But things like Gamlen, you know, whatever, he is a cockbag. It's lazy writing imo. Racism, homophobia, and sexism (the latter two are related) have come about in our world broadly because of how our various societies developed (i.e. the rise of Christianity). Take Thedas, for example, where sexism is supposed to be either not present or less rampant than our world (the writers, as usual, contradict themselves on that constantly). If women are not seen as weak and less than human in the first place then there would be no reason to equate men who lie with other men as "womanly," and hence an insult. So, homophobia in that sense (e.g. Gamlen's comment) would not make sense. It's very thoughtless, immature writing. And on a personal note, when I tell stories, i chose to create worlds where these institutions as we know them don't exist. I don't feel the need to recreate the same forms of oppression in my worlds, and frankly, someone who is repressed in the real world probably does not want to read about it happening to people like them yet again in their escapist fantasy (I know I don't... here's looking at you, Game of fuckin' Thrones).
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,701
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Jan 21, 2019 4:44:33 GMT
Sometimes I'm very conflicted about homophobia in fantasy worlds. On one hand, no please stop why, but on the other, why should this trait be exempt from ignorant behavior, when most fantasy worlds and their story-telling is built on ignorance and whatnot. I think I honestly draw the line at when such an instance become's prevalent in someone's storyline, like in Dorian's case. But things like Gamlen, you know, whatever, he is a cockbag. It's lazy writing imo. Racism, homophobia, and sexism (the latter two are related) have come about in our world broadly because of how our various societies developed (i.e. the rise of Christianity). Take Thedas, for example, where sexism is supposed to be either not present or less rampant than our world (the writers, as usual, contradict themselves on that constantly). If women are not seen as weak and less than human in the first place then there would be no reason to equate men who lie with other men as "womanly," and hence an insult. So, homophobia in that sense (e.g. Gamlen's comment) would not make sense. It's very thoughtless, immature writing. And on a personal note, when I tell stories, i chose to create worlds where these institutions as we know them don't exist. I don't feel the need to recreate the same forms of oppression in my worlds, and frankly, someone who is repressed in the real world probably does not want to read about it happening to people like them yet again in their escapist fantasy (I know I don't... here's looking at you, Game of fuckin' Thrones). There definitely seems to be a tension in how... non-fantasy traditional fantasy is. Like, it’s a parallel universe, but all these specific touchpoints are the same. Humans are around somewhere, they end up with various mildly relatable characteristics, the weapons are sort of similar-ish to real stuff, there’s castles, the food is pretty similar. So when it comes to cultural elements, they tend to get patched in as well. Traditional fantasy is sort of the medieval version of space operas, where all the aliens are transparently humans in a bunch of prosthetics. I joke a lot about tree fucking, but I really would like to see fantasy bend more toward the “weird”. I don’t want to understand elves’ point of view as a sort of modification template that’s applied to humans. I want there to be truly, extremely alien cultures, where supposedly fundamental human constructs are deconstructed down to the bone and rebuilt on a completely different history. And maybe that’s impossible for a human to write about in a relatable way, but it would be nice to see fantasy step more in that direction. Sci-fi shouldn’t have a monopoly on the fantastical. Also I want to ask a sylvan what it feels when a bee quests deeply into its pillowy blossoms. |
|
inherit
507
0
Jun 21, 2021 22:15:41 GMT
5,802
Artemis
Somewhere, out there...
2,630
August 2016
artemis
CuriousArtemis
curiousartemis
|
Post by Artemis on Jan 21, 2019 4:55:49 GMT
It's lazy writing imo. Racism, homophobia, and sexism (the latter two are related) have come about in our world broadly because of how our various societies developed (i.e. the rise of Christianity). Take Thedas, for example, where sexism is supposed to be either not present or less rampant than our world (the writers, as usual, contradict themselves on that constantly). If women are not seen as weak and less than human in the first place then there would be no reason to equate men who lie with other men as "womanly," and hence an insult. So, homophobia in that sense (e.g. Gamlen's comment) would not make sense. It's very thoughtless, immature writing. And on a personal note, when I tell stories, i chose to create worlds where these institutions as we know them don't exist. I don't feel the need to recreate the same forms of oppression in my worlds, and frankly, someone who is repressed in the real world probably does not want to read about it happening to people like them yet again in their escapist fantasy (I know I don't... here's looking at you, Game of fuckin' Thrones). There definitely seems to be a tension in how... non-fantasy traditional fantasy is. Like, it’s a parallel universe, but all these specific touchpoints are the same. Humans are around somewhere, they end up with various mildly relatable characteristics, the weapons are sort of similar-ish to real stuff, there’s castles, the food is pretty similar. So when it comes to cultural elements, they tend to get patched in as well. Traditional fantasy is sort of the medieval version of space operas, where all the aliens are transparently humans in a bunch of prosthetics. I joke a lot about tree fucking, but I really would like to see fantasy bend more toward the “weird”. I don’t want to understand elves’ point of view as a sort of modification template that’s applied to humans. I want there to be truly, extremely alien cultures, where supposedly fundamental human constructs are deconstructed down to the bone and rebuilt on a completely different history. And maybe that’s impossible for a human to write about in a relatable way, but it would be nice to see fantasy step more in that direction. Sci-fi shouldn’t have a monopoly on the fantastical. Also I want to ask a sylvan what it feels when a bee quests deeply into its pillowy blossoms.Well, that's getting into art of fiction type stuff. Every writer will have a different purpose for why they tell stories; at a very basic level, some might favor making readers FEEL things versus others who prefer to lean towards making readers THINK things (e.g. hard sci-fi and what you're suggesting). Both are fine. However, I don't think including swords and castles in a fantasy novel or game is at all equivalent to including homophobia and racism as we know it in a fantasy game or novel.
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,701
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Jan 21, 2019 5:13:05 GMT
There definitely seems to be a tension in how... non-fantasy traditional fantasy is. Like, it’s a parallel universe, but all these specific touchpoints are the same. Humans are around somewhere, they end up with various mildly relatable characteristics, the weapons are sort of similar-ish to real stuff, there’s castles, the food is pretty similar. So when it comes to cultural elements, they tend to get patched in as well. Traditional fantasy is sort of the medieval version of space operas, where all the aliens are transparently humans in a bunch of prosthetics. I joke a lot about tree fucking, but I really would like to see fantasy bend more toward the “weird”. I don’t want to understand elves’ point of view as a sort of modification template that’s applied to humans. I want there to be truly, extremely alien cultures, where supposedly fundamental human constructs are deconstructed down to the bone and rebuilt on a completely different history. And maybe that’s impossible for a human to write about in a relatable way, but it would be nice to see fantasy step more in that direction. Sci-fi shouldn’t have a monopoly on the fantastical. Also I want to ask a sylvan what it feels when a bee quests deeply into its pillowy blossoms.Well, that's getting into art of fiction type stuff. Every writer will have a different purpose for why they tell stories; at a very basic level, some might favor making readers FEEL things versus others who prefer to lean towards making readers THINK things (e.g. hard sci-fi and what you're suggesting). Both are fine. However, I don't think including swords and castles in a fantasy novel or game is at all equivalent to including homophobia and racism as we know it in a fantasy game or novel. Oh of course! I’m not suggesting they’re equivalent, more that they tend to show up together. If someone’s busy copy-pasting bits from the real world, some other stuff is going to leak in when it’s pasted. That can be relatively neutral human concepts like “how is war expected to work?” or “how did money actually end up shaping up?” but they all sort of have interlocking effects on one another. And you’re 100% right about the genre differences. That’s why space operas exist, the humanness of the aliens is part of the experience. To some degree, even the think-y stories will be humans in prosthetics, because there’s only so far a writer can abstract away before it all collapses into unintelligible nonsense. It becomes a question of which things need to have bigger prosthetics — and since many human constructs don’t get questioned a lot, some writers may not notice how obvious the human is under the costume. |
|
inherit
507
0
Jun 21, 2021 22:15:41 GMT
5,802
Artemis
Somewhere, out there...
2,630
August 2016
artemis
CuriousArtemis
curiousartemis
|
Post by Artemis on Jan 21, 2019 5:20:15 GMT
Well, that's getting into art of fiction type stuff. Every writer will have a different purpose for why they tell stories; at a very basic level, some might favor making readers FEEL things versus others who prefer to lean towards making readers THINK things (e.g. hard sci-fi and what you're suggesting). Both are fine. However, I don't think including swords and castles in a fantasy novel or game is at all equivalent to including homophobia and racism as we know it in a fantasy game or novel. Oh of course! I’m not suggesting they’re equivalent, more that they tend to show up together. If someone’s busy copy-pasting bits from the real world, some other stuff is going to leak in when it’s pasted. That can be relatively neutral human concepts like “how is war expected to work?” or “how did money actually end up shaping up?” but they all sort of have interlocking effects on one another. And you’re 100% right about the genre differences. That’s why space operas exist, the humanness of the aliens is part of the experience. To some degree, even the think-y stories will be humans in prosthetics, because there’s only so far a writer can abstract away before it all collapses into unintelligible nonsense. It becomes a question of which things need to have bigger prosthetics — and since many human constructs don’t get questioned a lot, some writers may not notice how obvious the human is under the costume.  Btw if you like that stuff I can recommend Voyager in Night by C. J. Cherryh. Really, really bizarre and disturbing sci-fi (long) short story written from the perspective of the alien(s?) and thus extremely difficult to grasp on a human level. Uhhhhhhhh poor mods, we really got away from the topic :> Well since some people were giving their hopefuls, I'll just say I want gay or bi Blackwall ... older warrior, must-have-beard (non-negotiable), noble heart but dark past (Mm, delicious angst). For a wlw romance I want a confident woman who's in charge, like a female Bull... sense of humor, adventurous, large and in charge.
|
|
inherit
4964
0
Jun 17, 2017 17:29:55 GMT
3,701
arvaarad
1,465
Mar 18, 2017 16:32:40 GMT
March 2017
arvaarad
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Jade Empire
|
Post by arvaarad on Jan 21, 2019 5:30:00 GMT
Oh of course! I’m not suggesting they’re equivalent, more that they tend to show up together. If someone’s busy copy-pasting bits from the real world, some other stuff is going to leak in when it’s pasted. That can be relatively neutral human concepts like “how is war expected to work?” or “how did money actually end up shaping up?” but they all sort of have interlocking effects on one another. And you’re 100% right about the genre differences. That’s why space operas exist, the humanness of the aliens is part of the experience. To some degree, even the think-y stories will be humans in prosthetics, because there’s only so far a writer can abstract away before it all collapses into unintelligible nonsense. It becomes a question of which things need to have bigger prosthetics — and since many human constructs don’t get questioned a lot, some writers may not notice how obvious the human is under the costume. Btw if you like that stuff I can recommend Voyager in Night by C. J. Cherryh. Really, really bizarre and disturbing sci-fi (long) short story written from the perspective of the alien(s?) and thus extremely difficult to grasp on a human level. Uhhhhhhhh poor mods, we really got away from the topic :> Well since some people were giving their hopefuls, I'll just say I want gay or bi Blackwall ... older warrior, must-have-beard (non-negotiable), noble heart but dark past (Mm, delicious angst). For a wlw romance I want a confident woman who's in charge, like a female Bull... sense of humor, adventurous, large and in charge. I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again: older tamassran. I know you don’t literally mean another Qunari, but damn if I wouldn’t be down to clown with an older tamassran. All the paper-pushing of Josephine, the sardonic, been-around-the-block wit of Wynne, and some nice big dragon muscles from wrangling Qunari kids. Besides, I’m still holding out hope for Qunari hippies (“maybe you should, like, actually read Koslun’s writings, man”), and what better place to look for them than among the teachers? |
|
inherit
1663
0
Nov 21, 2024 14:33:47 GMT
2,781
Vall
1,415
Sept 23, 2016 22:09:07 GMT
September 2016
vall
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Vall on Jan 21, 2019 5:30:31 GMT
|
|
leadintea
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate
Posts: 292 Likes: 434
inherit
1012
0
Sept 25, 2024 20:14:04 GMT
434
leadintea
292
Aug 16, 2016 14:43:51 GMT
August 2016
leadintea
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, Baldur's Gate
|
Post by leadintea on Jan 21, 2019 5:35:37 GMT
As I said before and, I know, to the displeasure of many in this thread, I don't have a problem with these homophobic and racist characters because it adds some grit and realism to the world, especially in a world of a dark fantasy. You can't expect people who have different sexualities, races, skin tones, cultures, etc. to interact with each other without any problems or differing opinions even when you throw fantasy races into the mix. However, I do have to say though, that I dislike how eurocentric the racism is in Thedas with black people usually getting the shaft in the world, despite how little it occurs. Since skin based bigotry exists in Thedas, I'm hoping that BioWare will try to at least show some equality in the ignorant remarks and not just make black skin the sole target and have some NPC get on white tones like @tekehu's booty mentioned.
I get that people want fantasy worlds to be divorced from real life issues, but Thedas has already been made with many of these elements in its roots. I just hope that none of these issues become prominent in the future (like with Dorian's arc) and are just made to be minor, background remarks at best.
|
|
) list right now
