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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 9, 2019 22:08:26 GMT
Lol, I love that this thread is now about the mechanics of werewolf transformation.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 9, 2019 22:48:19 GMT
I swear that when I looked earlier werewolf was at 14. Now there are five more?! I had no idea it would be so popular.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Mar 9, 2019 22:58:21 GMT
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 9, 2019 23:15:54 GMT
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Mar 9, 2019 23:21:57 GMT
Love that movie! She's a female werewolf from the movie Cursed (2005), that scene is hilarious lmao talking about female werewolves whom are very rare, I love the ones in the movie Trick 'r Treat (slightly nsfw because well, werewolves being nekkid shifting and blood and skin falling apart lol)
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Post by Artemis on Mar 10, 2019 7:21:37 GMT
I swear that when I looked earlier werewolf was at 14. Now there are five more?! I had no idea it would be so popular. Damn wolf fuckers! I voted centaur. I like horses ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 10, 2019 8:48:32 GMT
I swear that when I looked earlier werewolf was at 14. Now there are five more?! I had no idea it would be so popular. Damn wolf fuckers! I voted centaur. I like horses ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Still angling for that government-mandated horse-husband to bring you breakfast in bed? "Hope you like hay, honey!"
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Post by Artemis on Mar 10, 2019 8:55:24 GMT
Damn wolf fuckers! I voted centaur. I like horses ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Still angling for that government-mandated horse-husband to bring you breakfast in bed? "Hope you like hay, honey!" You know me so well. Actually I don't want him in my bedroom; he can stay in the kitchen and for the love of god keep it clean b/c I certainly can't seem to.
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theascendent
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Mar 10, 2019 14:59:28 GMT
Lamia or medusa anyone?
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Post by Nightscrawl on Mar 10, 2019 16:50:03 GMT
Lamia is fine, just like any one of these human-creature hybrids. I think Medusa would be distracting with all of those snakes -- "Stop looking at me!" But I guess it gives new meaning (for men) to your lover making you hard as a rock.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by theascendent on Mar 10, 2019 18:05:51 GMT
Lamia is fine, just like any one of these human-creature hybrids. I think Medusa would be distracting with all of those snakes -- "Stop looking at me!" But I guess it gives new meaning (for men) to your lover making you hard as a rock.
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Post by Vall on Mar 11, 2019 22:35:09 GMT
I vote for the cute dragon girl! (Yes I'm boring, and that is totally not my character from another game ) Also I want that hair in a Bioware game
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Post by Catilina on Mar 11, 2019 22:48:00 GMT
I vote for the cute dragon girl! (Yes I'm boring, and that is totally not my character from another game ) Also I want that hair in a Bioware game Cute dragon girl? Chronormu, alias Chromie, World of Warcraft By the way, WoW has nice dragon girls/guys.
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Post by Davrin's boobs on Mar 11, 2019 23:01:42 GMT
can we start a change petition to make the Jinn from American Gods to be the gay option in DA4 yep the show is back and I'm hyped, bioware you better take notes from Starz for gay romances, they are doing it just right! gay pirates, gay gladiators, gay jinns!
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Post by Vall on Mar 11, 2019 23:05:21 GMT
I vote for the cute dragon girl! (Yes I'm boring, and that is totally not my character from another game ) Also I want that hair in a Bioware game Cute dragon girl? Chronormu, alias Chromie, World of Warcraft By the way, WoW has nice dragon girls/guys. If I wanted Chromie, I would have suggested popotoes...errr...I mean lalafel/gnomes. ...but then I would have to resist the urge to /pet them each time I saw one. Or just give in, because I already /pet most lalas I meet.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 11, 2019 23:21:21 GMT
Cute dragon girl? Chronormu, alias Chromie, World of Warcraft By the way, WoW has nice dragon girls/guys. If I wanted Chromie, I would have suggested popotoes...errr...I mean lalafel/gnomes. ...but then I would have to resist the urge to /pet them each time I saw one. Or just give in, because I already /pet most lalas I meet. Haha, okay... but Alexstrasza, Ysera... And Nozdormu, Malygos... so, I see your point. source
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Post by Vall on Mar 12, 2019 0:06:18 GMT
If I wanted Chromie, I would have suggested popotoes...errr...I mean lalafel/gnomes. ...but then I would have to resist the urge to /pet them each time I saw one. Or just give in, because I already /pet most lalas I meet. Haha, okay... but Alexstrasza, Ysera... And Nozdormu, Malygos... so, I see your point. source Eh, I don't know, those are just dragons who use the appearance of mortals for convenience. My screenshot was of Au Ra, humanoids with horns, tail and scales...and not actually related to dragons
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 12, 2019 21:58:02 GMT
Sounds more like you guys want shapeshifters, mutants, aliens, anthropomorphized lupine, and/or cartoon "funny animals", but NOT actual werewolves . There's a lot wrong with this, so let's break this down. Werewolves are shapeshifters. All of them. Without exception. If they have only one form, then they are not, according to the definition, werewolves. Werwulf (man wolf) or lukanthropos (wolf person) in folklore are humans, who shapeshift into wolves or wolf-human hybrids. What you're thinking of is the RPG style of shapeshifters, where magic is involved. Shapeshifters can shapeshift, the source of this ability does not matter. And it's not like werewolves being blood dripping murder machines is the only valid interpretation of the werewolf myth. In the 12th century tale Bisclavret, the werewolf is betrayed by his wife after he reveals his secret. She hides his clothes, which leads to him being stuck in wolf form. He comes across the king, who, surprised by the wolf's gentle and noble nature, brings him back to the castle and the two become inseparable. When the wife visits the castle, he attacks her. The king defends the wolf, saying it must have been justified. The truth is revealed, the now nose-less wife and her new lover are exiled, and Bisclavret and the king live happily ever after. Guillaume de Palerme and Melion feature similar "gentle werewolf" themes. Turkic legends had shamans, who could transform into wolfmen and were revered for it. You also have Slavic folklore that had werewolf deities (Horz and Veles), or the tradition to give children wolf names to ward them from evil. There are a lot of myths that have different interpretations. Disney and modern cinema ingrained in us the gentle mermaid trope, but many myths, like the Greek ones with sirens and Slavic ones with rusalkas, depicted them as man eating monsters. So you might as well complain that Ariel is not a "real" mermaid. Werewolves being vulnerable to silver is a modern trope. The alpha-beta-omega hierarchy is based on a modern bunk study. Connecting the transformation to the full moon, while present in some folklore, didn't become a universal werewolf story element until the 20th century. The only required element is a human turning into a wolf or a wolf human hybrid. Anything else isn't obligatory. Claiming that people are sanitising werewolves is stupid. No one owns werewolves, common themes change. Just because you don't like it, it doesn't mean that what people talk about here are not "real" werewolves. Classic horror movies are not some holy scripture, just one of the interpretations. So calm down with the gatekeeping. The Shape of Water should be enough evidence that there can be different interpretations of mythical creatures without people going "omg the vodyanoi would never romance anyone, this is unrealistic, why u sanitising swamp themed horror?!" All right, fair enough on the evolution and variations of the werewolf myth in genre fiction. However, let's take a closer look at Dragon Age werewolves specifically:
According to lore, people become werewolves by being possessed by Rage demons or twisted nature spirits, or by being infected by another werewolf. Personally, I'm reluctant to cite stories like The Tale of Dane and the Werewolf, since such tales are presented as in-universe legends and not objective truth from the creators. So I will rely on what we have actually seen, namely the werewolves from Origins, and their follow up quests in DA2. The Brecilian Forest werewolves were cursed to always remain so. Their lupine forms gave them constant physical pain, rage and bloodlust. The Lady of the Forest could barely keep their aggression in check, and she was both their spiritual savior and a major part of the curse (Zathrian being the other half). I won't count Origins' End slides since they've all been retconned as just rumors, but DA2 confirms that they killed innocents, and if you slew the Dalish, not even The Lady could control their bloodlust for very long. In the few moments of rational clarity they had, every single one of them hated being werewolves, and wanted to be rid of it.
I am aware someone could say, "That was just those werewolves, the writers could come up with a different breed for us to interact with". Sure, they could, but that ultimately leads into one of two possibilities:
1. The writers keep the werewolves' savagery, and imply that any player who wants the cursed Companion to stay a werewolf simply doesn't give a damn about their pain, or any innocents they might slaughter. If you have no qualms about playing selfish and/or evil characters, sure go for it. But if you still want to be the Hero, that gives way to
2. The writers retcon the lore and series tone so that the player's friendship/love can give them the peace that no nature spirit, other loved ones or their own self control could. Because you know, Player Entitlement .
Looking back, I think this is the main concern that weariness over DA werewolves is merely symptomatic of. In Origins, players could be nobles, but were under constant threat of conspiracies, had to make difficult decisions for themselves and their people, and were always reminded that their privilege came at the expense of commoner oppression. Magic came at the cost of possible demonic possession, accidentally harming normals, or even the most benign uses weakening the Vale. Thedas was a dark, realistic place where there were no completely happy endings for anyone, and the best you could get was bittersweet. Slowly but surely however, the pendulum began to swing from thematic exploration to wish fulfillment. The Inquisitor, Softened Leliana or even Vivienne could completely ignore centuries of ingrained culture with little consequence, because that what some players wanted. The writers used the Avvar to completely rewrite Thedas' understanding of magic, because many mage fans couldn't stand the notion that there could be any Prices for their Power. Little things here and there can add up, and soon all the myriad fantastical implications of what being a werewolf could mean end up being little more than some reskinned dude with a bad temper.
Let me be clear, I see nothing wrong with role playing far out concepts like werewolves, or other such good mosters, in of themselves. If all you want is the aesthetic of a heroic wolfman Companion, such choices seem perfectly suited to more idealistic, Kitchen Sink Fantasies like Pathfinder, Dungeons and Dragons or World of Warcraft. It just doesn't seem to gel with the more realistic and mature identity of Dragon Age, to me at least.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 12, 2019 23:48:45 GMT
The writers used the Avvar to completely rewrite Thedas' understanding of magic, because many mage fans couldn't stand the notion that there could be any Prices for their Power. Of course, DA:O opened that particular door itself.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 13, 2019 0:58:37 GMT
"No happy endings for anyone" is no more realistic than giving happy endings to everyone.
What world are you living in, Walter?
Also, where has anyone from BioWare said that they did anything because "the players wanted it"?
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Post by Rouccoco on Mar 13, 2019 1:09:59 GMT
Walter BlackYou're seriously moving goalposts here. First a werewolf companion is against some unwritten rules about werewolves in general, now it's against the lore, but mostly the one in Origins. You cited "painful transformation" as one of the werewolf staples, yet now you claim it's about the lore in Origins, where the transformation back to human wasn't accompanied by howls of agony or similar. What we have seen is a singular group of werewolves, all cursed by a single elf. World of Thedas, a canon lore source, says: "Tales differ on these werewolves of human origin, with some claiming that their transformation into a bestial form happens temporarily, while still others say the transformation is irreversible." Meaning that Zathrian's permanent curse isn't the only way to make werewolves (the rage demon possession part was about wolves turning into humanoid creatures). You don't need to retcon anything, because the situation was specific, and the lore, from the start, left a wide opening for other stories by being vague. And yes, by also including that tale. Entirely dismissing it isn't backed by anything, since DA likes to realise many of the legends it introduces (like how it was unthinkable that the stone was alive or how quirky dwarves were for saying you could fall into the sky, and then Descent happened). Also "protagonist achieving something no one else could for years/centuries" is a staple for BW. I don't see how DA4's hero being the only one, who's able to help a werewolf find peace is any different from the warden waltzing in and ending a curse that lasted centuries (or Shep ending the Geth-Quarian war by brokering peace). About DA being grim and realistic - we have a grandma, who is asked to sew, a golem, who is traumatised by pigeon crap, an assassin, who hits on you after failing to kill you, princess stabbity, a dropout turned king, a no-nonsense guard, who's hilariously terrible at flirting, a bull-man, whose friends make fun of his soft pecs, and so on. You can save 100% of your companions and protagonists. BSN's recent idea that DA (or Origins) is as bleak and gritty as GoT or the Witcher isn't based on facts. If anything, DA2, way more than DAO, was the one to lean on determinism and bad outcomes. But people ignore this, because Origins was more similar to BG2 or something. Besides, the characters in the games keep telling you how homicidal and uncontrolled abominations are, and then you meet Anders, Wynne, Sigrid, and so on, and you come away with "it depends." Not all abominations are mass murderers, not all spirits become demons once crossing the Veil. Even Grandin's rage was only directed towards the people, who murdered his loverfriend, and not uncontrollable. DA doesn't want to paint things black or white, and the companions mirror that. You also ignored the part, where I said the companion could lash out (or about young werewolves losing control). A looot of companions in DA have killed someone innocent. If the story calls for it, I don't see why they can't do the same for a werewolf companion. A++ if that companion is cornered and provoked by some templars, who think he's an apostate, and he turns them into a pile of meat. If you don't like the idea, just say so, instead of trying to blame it on (past) lore or some personal definition of what a werewolf should be. And if your main point is that Origins was so cool and dark, and BW ruined it then a ) this is not the thread for it and b ) discussing what, according to you, is allowed in DA4 in accordance to a 10 year old game from a franchise that has greatly expanded since is neither here or there. Besides, if Inquisition retconned so so much, like you claim it did, then I guess including werewolves in DA4 that are different from the Brecilian ones won't be a problem
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Mar 13, 2019 1:15:17 GMT
we have a grandma, who is asked to sew, Uh, who? the characters in the games keep telling you how homicidal and uncontrolled abominations are, and then you meet Anders, Wynne, Sigrun, Again, say what? Sigrun as an abomination is news to me....
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Post by Rouccoco on Mar 13, 2019 1:17:35 GMT
Wynne. Alistair wanted her to patch up his socks at one point. Meant Sigrid, of course, fixed.
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Trouble-shooting Space Diva
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by melbella on Mar 13, 2019 1:23:39 GMT
Wynne. Alistair wanted her to patch up his socks at one point. I'm sure she'd rather burn them, given the smell. Never thought of her as a grandma though. More like a nosey busy-body aunt who won't mind her own business. The more I play Origins, the more I hate ALL the companions.
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Post by opuspace on Mar 13, 2019 3:34:56 GMT
Wynne. Alistair wanted her to patch up his socks at one point. I'm sure she'd rather burn them, given the smell. Never thought of her as a grandma though. More like a nosey busy-body aunt who won't mind her own business. The more I play Origins, the more I hate ALL the companions. Hell, grandmas wish they could look as fit as Wynne.
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