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Post by caladrius on Jan 3, 2019 20:41:27 GMT
As much as I thought Reyes was perfect for me in concept (even though he's not a twink at all lol) and I know you loved Gil, it's always disappointing to me when our choices are shoved off on under developed side characters. Yeah, it's why I always go with Kaidan, even though I really like Steve. The difference in quantity of content and plot relevance is pretty steep here. I hope after the whole Jaal situation they'll remember to at least add a squad m/m LI... Kaidan is an example of a romance I enjoyed even though Kaidan as a concept isn't really something that appeals to my taste. Scruffy, lawful good, srs bsns are all usually "no thanks" checks for me. I appreciated that the romance had an emotional depth and tenderness that m/m relationships in media as a whole usually lack. It always tugs the heartstrings a little when he asks Shep not to leave him behind in the final stretch. Usually the m/m relationships are written with major commitment issues and emotional distance for at least a huge chunk of the romance (Dorian, Fenris, Zevran) if the character's sexuality isn't almost approached entirely as a joke (Iron Bull, Zevran). Men aren't supposed to be in touch with their feelings, in general, so two men being so at once? What is this madness? Kaidan had a genuine feel that he actually loved Shep and felt no need to obfuscate it with jokes, or temper tantrums, or general aloofness, so I really appreciated that about his romance. |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 20:42:11 GMT
Would the Horned Knight count as a knight in shining armor? Points in his favor: - has knight in his name - rigid, if slightly inscrutable, code of honor - rules a forest - not a werewolf (sorry, werewolf guys) but he’s a demon! - gives fun and interesting gifts which should probably not be accepted or opened - probably really unwise to romance I don't know enough about him. What can you tell me about him? |
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 3, 2019 20:43:14 GMT
If not a gay elf, then a gay human who is royalty but has none of the issues Dorian has, and at the end of the romance you become royalty by marrying him. I would just like to have that prince fantasy please. Like a Gay version of the Female Cousland/King Alistair thing? That'd be super neat, I'd roll a guy for another stab at that Fantasy I would make that compromise, Aww, but I don't want you to compromise. I guess I want to say I would drool all over your Armored Ancient Elf and be disappointed I couldn't be my natural gender so I could fantasy some future post game babies for them. I would think that if the theory of elves being originally spirits were correct, they all would have defaulted to bi/pan anyway but I suppose if we take Solas being gender/race gated as lore locked not just Budget Locked, I can't assume spirits have no sexual preferences. Something like that yeah. But, they could already be doing this with Dorian, if you can elevate him to being a Black Divine or something, and let the Inquisitor be his partner in holiness. Solas and Sera kind of wreck that theory, sadly. I think in all fairness, if he is as lore relevant as Solas, then he SHOULD be bi. Because Solas was a mistake, let's not repeat it. Solas, was, a, mistake.  |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 3, 2019 20:46:22 GMT
Would the Horned Knight count as a knight in shining armor? Points in his favor: - has knight in his name - rigid, if slightly inscrutable, code of honor - rules a forest - not a werewolf (sorry, werewolf guys) but he’s a demon! - gives fun and interesting gifts which should probably not be accepted or opened - probably really unwise to romance I don't know enough about him. What can you tell me about him? |
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2019 20:46:25 GMT
Kaidan is an example of a romance I enjoyed even though Kaidan as a concept isn't really something that appeals to my taste. Scruffy, lawful good, srs bsns are all usually "no thanks" checks for me. I appreciated that the romance had an emotional depth and tenderness that m/m relationships in media as a whole usually lack. It always tugs the heartstrings a little when he asks Shep not to leave him behind in the final stretch. Usually the m/m relationships are written with major commitment issues and emotional distance for at least a huge chunk of the romance (Dorian, Fenris, Zevran) if the character's sexuality isn't almost approached entirely as a joke (Iron Bull, Zevran). Men aren't supposed to be in touch with their feelings, in general, so two men being so at once? What is this madness? Kaidan had a genuine feel that he actually loved Shep and felt no need to obfuscate it with jokes, or temper tantrums, or general aloofness, so I really appreciated that about his romance. YES!
I think this is why Kaidan is the pinnacle of romance (in theory) for me. Had the m/m players gotten all of the romance content and they fixed the animations to work with two men, then it would have been perfect. I love the mShep/Kaidan slow-burn, three game romance arc. Even if it's not official until the third game.
I definitely want to tread new ground with the DA4 romances, but if they had to base an m/m option on a past romance option, my vote would 100% go to Kaidan. No one else is even close in my opinion.
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 3, 2019 20:49:58 GMT
Kaidan is an example of a romance I enjoyed even though Kaidan as a concept isn't really something that appeals to my taste. Scruffy, lawful good, srs bsns are all usually "no thanks" checks for me. I appreciated that the romance had an emotional depth and tenderness that m/m relationships in media as a whole usually lack. It always tugs the heartstrings a little when he asks Shep not to leave him behind in the final stretch. Usually the m/m relationships are written with major commitment issues and emotional distance for at least a huge chunk of the romance (Dorian, Fenris, Zevran) if the character's sexuality isn't almost approached entirely as a joke (Iron Bull, Zevran). Men aren't supposed to be in touch with their feelings, in general, so two men being so at once? What is this madness? Kaidan had a genuine feel that he actually loved Shep and felt no need to obfuscate it with jokes, or temper tantrums, or general aloofness, so I really appreciated that about his romance. YES!
I think this is why Kaidan is the pinnacle of romance (in theory) for me. Had the m/m players gotten all of the romance content and they fixed the animations to work with two men, then it would have been perfect. I love the mShep/Kaidan slow-burn, three game romance arc. Even if it's not official until the third game.
I definitely want to tread new ground with the DA4 romances, but if they had to base an m/m option on a past romance option, my vote would 100% go to Kaidan. No one else is even close in my opinion.
For me it's Jaal. Jaal hits all the right spots for me. Relevant? Yes. Non-human/unconventional beauty? Uhuh. Sweet as hell romance? Heck yeah. A sexy sex scene? Oh yeah baby. A '' good '' ending? Yep. Kaidan would probably take the second place, followed by Fenris. |
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 3, 2019 20:50:36 GMT
Would the Horned Knight count as a knight in shining armor? Points in his favor: - has knight in his name - rigid, if slightly inscrutable, code of honor - rules a forest - not a werewolf (sorry, werewolf guys) but he’s a demon! - gives fun and interesting gifts which should probably not be accepted or opened - probably really unwise to romance I don't know enough about him. What can you tell me about him? He’s from The Last Court, and he rules the forest near Serault. There are a couple ways the Marquis of Serault can piss him off, I think one of them is building a road through his domain, and another is trying to un-kidnap a bard who killed an animal in his domain. You eventually end up meeting him, and either resolving the issue or making him more upset. Him being upset is... bad. But him being friendly is also kind of ill-advised. He likes giving the marquis a lot of gifts, but every time you accept that puts you in debt to him, which results in more Fun(tm) stuff happening later. Overall he’s very polite and welcoming, but in a way that makes all the hairs on the back of your neck stand up. I don’t remember exactly, but I think lorewise a relative of the marquis summoned him sometime in the past. Also the Serault forest is full of a bunch of other Fun(tm) stuff, like the Cult of Masked Andraste (who’s strongly implied to not be Andraste), and an elven cult to the Forgotten Ones. |
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Post by caladrius on Jan 3, 2019 20:54:08 GMT
Like a Gay version of the Female Cousland/King Alistair thing? That'd be super neat, I'd roll a guy for another stab at that Fantasy Aww, but I don't want you to compromise. I guess I want to say I would drool all over your Armored Ancient Elf and be disappointed I couldn't be my natural gender so I could fantasy some future post game babies for them. I would think that if the theory of elves being originally spirits were correct, they all would have defaulted to bi/pan anyway but I suppose if we take Solas being gender/race gated as lore locked not just Budget Locked, I can't assume spirits have no sexual preferences. Something like that yeah. But, they could already be doing this with Dorian, if you can elevate him to being a Black Divine or something, and let the Inquisitor be his partner in holiness. Solas and Sera kind of wreck that theory, sadly. I think in all fairness, if he is as lore relevant as Solas, then he SHOULD be bi. Because Solas was a mistake, let's not repeat it. Solas, was, a, mistake. Solas was a huge mistake, imo. The fact that he was made straight to avoid a "depraved bisexual" trope along side the context of Iron Bull being one big sex joke that never ends will never stop annoying me. |
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 3, 2019 20:59:33 GMT
Something like that yeah. But, they could already be doing this with Dorian, if you can elevate him to being a Black Divine or something, and let the Inquisitor be his partner in holiness. Solas and Sera kind of wreck that theory, sadly. I think in all fairness, if he is as lore relevant as Solas, then he SHOULD be bi. Because Solas was a mistake, let's not repeat it. Solas, was, a, mistake. Solas was a huge mistake, imo. The fact that he was made straight to avoid a "depraved bisexual" trope along side the context of Iron Bull being one big sex joke that never ends will never stop annoying me. Apparently Solas' writer said that he was never intended to be anything but straight (source: a pissed off Solasmancer) so I don't know anymore. But regardless, it was a dumb move to make Solas romanceable at all honestly. |
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Post by phoray on Jan 3, 2019 21:00:49 GMT
Solas was a huge mistake, imo. The fact that he was made straight to avoid a "depraved bisexual" trope along side the context of Iron Bull being one big sex joke that never ends will never stop annoying me. I don't believe I've ever seen a tweet with a quote that said that's why they made Solas straight. This sounds like a rumor. Everything I've seen was that Solas was a tacked on last minute thing. And his romance shows it with a lack of quantity and only having one romance specific to him scene. |
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 3, 2019 21:02:42 GMT
Solas was a huge mistake, imo. The fact that he was made straight to avoid a "depraved bisexual" trope along side the context of Iron Bull being one big sex joke that never ends will never stop annoying me. I don't believe I've ever seen a tweet with a quote that said that's why they made Solas straight. This sounds like a rumor. Everything I've seen was that Solas was a tacked on last minute thing. And his romance shows it with a lack of quantity and only having one romance specific to him scene. The fact that they could've polished Cullen to enjoy all races and both genders instead of making the Solas romance I- Well, it seems to have worked out nicely because it's one of the most popular ships in Dragon Age, Solas and female Lavellan that is. |
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Jan 3, 2019 21:03:48 GMT
Solas was a huge mistake, imo. The fact that he was made straight to avoid a "depraved bisexual" trope along side the context of Iron Bull being one big sex joke that never ends will never stop annoying me. I don't believe I've ever seen a tweet with a quote that said that's why they made Solas straight. This sounds like a rumor. Everything I've seen was that Solas was a tacked on last minute thing. And his romance shows it with a lack of quantity and only having one romance specific to him scene. |
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Post by phoray on Jan 3, 2019 21:05:08 GMT
I don't believe I've ever seen a tweet with a quote that said that's why they made Solas straight. This sounds like a rumor. Everything I've seen was that Solas was a tacked on last minute thing. And his romance shows it with a lack of quantity and only having one romance specific to him scene. The fact that they could've polished Cullen to enjoy all races and both genders instead of making the Solas romance I- Well, it seems to have worked out nicely because it's one of the most popular ships in Dragon Age, Solas and female Lavellan that is. I know and I still don't get it.  The only Solas ship I can jump on is the tragedy it could be come DA4. As it stands right now, the base romance is so meh. Twilight all over again. |
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Post by caladrius on Jan 3, 2019 21:05:30 GMT
Solas was a huge mistake, imo. The fact that he was made straight to avoid a "depraved bisexual" trope along side the context of Iron Bull being one big sex joke that never ends will never stop annoying me. Apparently Solas' writer said that he was never intended to be anything but straight (source: a pissed off Solasmancer) so I don't know anymore. But regardless, it was a dumb move to make Solas romanceable at all honestly. I think the Solas romance is a really interesting narrative, but it seems almost impossible to follow through in a way that respects it. So, honestly, he probably shouldn't have been a romance. |
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Post by phoray on Jan 3, 2019 21:06:32 GMT
I don't believe I've ever seen a tweet with a quote that said that's why they made Solas straight. This sounds like a rumor. Everything I've seen was that Solas was a tacked on last minute thing. And his romance shows it with a lack of quantity and only having one romance specific to him scene. WEll... I mean he says that, but I think it was more like, "We didn't have time AND there is at least one reason not to soo....guess it worked out." kinda feeling to it. |
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Post by cankiie on Jan 3, 2019 21:10:35 GMT
Bioware just can't win with that group  |
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Post by Rouccoco on Jan 3, 2019 21:15:30 GMT
Kaidan is an example of a romance I enjoyed even though Kaidan as a concept isn't really something that appeals to my taste. Scruffy, lawful good, srs bsns are all usually "no thanks" checks for me. I appreciated that the romance had an emotional depth and tenderness that m/m relationships in media as a whole usually lack. It always tugs the heartstrings a little when he asks Shep not to leave him behind in the final stretch. Usually the m/m relationships are written with major commitment issues and emotional distance for at least a huge chunk of the romance (Dorian, Fenris, Zevran) if the character's sexuality isn't almost approached entirely as a joke (Iron Bull, Zevran). Men aren't supposed to be in touch with their feelings, in general, so two men being so at once? What is this madness? Kaidan had a genuine feel that he actually loved Shep and felt no need to obfuscate it with jokes, or temper tantrums, or general aloofness, so I really appreciated that about his romance. Yep, I enjoyed that too. It's also the reason I enjoyed Anders' romance. The plot is heavy, but there's a lot of romantic lines and just genuine affection, without any attempts to make it less meaningful. Jennifer Hepler did say that when she was writing the m/m flavour some around her suggested making it less romantic than the f/m version, but she decided not to do that. I don't know, maybe there's a consensus in BW that gay and bi men want light-hearted romances and not heavy declarations of love and devotion? Kaidan is an outlier too, but kinda like Jaal he might not have been an option, if we hadn't complained about 0 options in ME1 and 2. |
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Post by caladrius on Jan 3, 2019 21:20:10 GMT
I don't believe I've ever seen a tweet with a quote that said that's why they made Solas straight. This sounds like a rumor. Everything I've seen was that Solas was a tacked on last minute thing. And his romance shows it with a lack of quantity and only having one romance specific to him scene. Thank you! I knew this wasn't just a fever dream I had and believed out of hand for years. lol |
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Post by phoray on Jan 3, 2019 21:24:00 GMT
I don't know, maybe there's a consensus in BW that gay and bi men want light-hearted romances and not heavy declarations of love and devotion? one thought is the perception of lesbian relationships that go fast and heavy into lurve and devotion territory in real life. I think my bio mother moved her girlfriend into the house inside of a month of meeting her. second thought is, Cassandra, Dorian, and Iron Bull (maybe more I know of) have break up options after the sex. Whereas I couldn't sleep with Cullen and break up with him later if I wanted to. So is it the perception that only gay men want light love free love or is it simply the perception by men of other men that they want the light love free romance? I was pretty shocked to see the "let's break up" option literally while laying nude next to Cassandra seconds after her love confession. |
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Post by ellanathehamster on Jan 3, 2019 21:24:21 GMT
If someone wants to refuse to accept reality and actual words from author in order to image some nonexistent reasons- more power to you. It doesn't change the canon is a slightest.  |
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Post by caladrius on Jan 3, 2019 21:31:44 GMT
Kaidan is an example of a romance I enjoyed even though Kaidan as a concept isn't really something that appeals to my taste. Scruffy, lawful good, srs bsns are all usually "no thanks" checks for me. I appreciated that the romance had an emotional depth and tenderness that m/m relationships in media as a whole usually lack. It always tugs the heartstrings a little when he asks Shep not to leave him behind in the final stretch. Usually the m/m relationships are written with major commitment issues and emotional distance for at least a huge chunk of the romance (Dorian, Fenris, Zevran) if the character's sexuality isn't almost approached entirely as a joke (Iron Bull, Zevran). Men aren't supposed to be in touch with their feelings, in general, so two men being so at once? What is this madness? Kaidan had a genuine feel that he actually loved Shep and felt no need to obfuscate it with jokes, or temper tantrums, or general aloofness, so I really appreciated that about his romance. Yep, I enjoyed that too. It's also the reason I enjoyed Anders' romance. The plot is heavy, but there's a lot of romantic lines and just genuine affection, without any attempts to make it less meaningful. Jennifer Hepler did say that when she was writing the m/m flavour some around her suggested making it less romantic than the f/m version, but she decided not to do that. I don't know, maybe there's a consensus in BW that gay and bi men want light-hearted romances and not heavy declarations of love and devotion? Kaidan is an outlier too, but kinda like Jaal he might not have been an option, if we hadn't complained about 0 options in ME1 and 2. I also really loved that about the Anders romance, which is still my number one across all bioware games. It's strange they'd get the impression that gay and bi men don't want emotional depth and commitment from romances, given it seems to be the one thing everyone here is strongly agreeing on, despite extremely disparate taste in most other ways. Not strange in terms of stereotypes of the gay community being promiscuous/noncommittal, though, I guess. And, yeah, I've never believed Jaal was always going to be available. If it wasn't for the social media backlash, I still don't believe he'd have been a m/m option. lol I mean, his writer may very well have had the intention early, but I think they scrapped for time with full intention of Reyes and Gil being it in the final product well before release. Of course, it is just speculation. |
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Post by phoray on Jan 3, 2019 21:35:02 GMT
If someone wants to refuse to accept reality and actual words from author in order to image some nonexistent reasons- more power to you. It doesn't change the canon is a slightest.  Solas not being bisexual because lack of time is a bummer. Solas not being bisexual because they wanted to avoid a trope is even worse. But I still haven't heard a good narrative reason for Solas not being Bi. AS in, who he is as a person. All along it's been implied that they write the person/character first and then decide later if the character they wrote prefers women or men. The writers didn't ask themselves as writers what sexuality Solas had and Solas "says" he's straight. Solas could have said, "I'm bi" and the writers would have over ruled him with, "That's too tropey, you can't be bi or gay, because reasons not related to who you are, so your professed sexuality is irrelevant." I'm terrible at expressing myself, so I hope you got my point. His straightness has nothing to do with his character and who he is, and everything to do with avoiding "tropes" and time constraints. Never mind that Dorian's conversion story is a trope I've seen portrayed since the 90s as a kid. You can't claim you avoid tropes like the plague and then embrace another one and expect ME to not notice the convenience of it. |
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 3, 2019 21:37:11 GMT
If someone wants to refuse to accept reality and actual words from author in order to image some nonexistent reasons- more power to you. It doesn't change the canon is a slightest. Solas not being bisexual because lack of time is a bummer. Solas not being bisexual because they wanted to avoid a trope is even worse. But I still haven't heard a good narrative reason for Solas not being Bi. AS in, who he is as a person. All along it's been implied that they write the person/character first and then decide later if the character they wrote prefers women or men. The writers didn't ask themselves as writers what sexuality Solas had and Solas "says" he's straight. Solas could have said, "I'm bi" and the writers would have over ruled him with, "That's too tropey, you can't be bi or gay, because reasons not related to who you are, so your professed sexuality is irrelevant." I'm terrible at expressing myself, so I hope you got my point. His straightness has nothing to do with his character and who he is, and everything to do with avoiding "tropes" and time constraints. Never mind that Dorian's conversion story is a trope I've seen portrayed since the 90s as a kid. You can't claim you avoid tropes like the plague and then embrace another one and expect ME to not notice the convenience of it. What's done is done, but the last point is so true. You are more than happy to indulge on tropes and stereotypes, but apparently that one trope about evil bisexuals is to be avoided at all cost? don't make me laugh. |
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Post by phoray on Jan 3, 2019 21:41:21 GMT
you M/M romance fans on here, have you ever played Technomancer? Locked male protaganist has THE SWEETEST romance with a co character named Andrew that I just adore. *explodes from memories of the adorbs*
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Post by witchcocktor on Jan 3, 2019 21:42:38 GMT
you M/M romance fans on here, have you ever played Technomancer? Locked male protaganist has THE SWEETEST romance with a co character named Andrew that I just adore. *explodes from memories of the adorbs* Never played it but I watched the romance and it was pretty doki doki. And he had Prompto's voice actor so that kinda made it sweeter cuz Prompto is a sweetie. |
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The only Solas ship I can jump on is the tragedy it could be come DA4. As it stands right now, the base romance is so meh. Twilight all over again.
