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Post by Catilina on Jan 4, 2019 1:08:30 GMT
I did not see a desire demon in DA:I Whereas they were in both DA:O and DA2. Imshael is a desire demon, though he hates that label.
I imagine most other desire demons were smart enough to stay faaaaar away from the rifts. They’re relatively high on the power scale, they can probably manage it. In a time of such upheaval, rage, terror, and fear demons had a field day, compassion spirits got too close and flipped over to despair, pride demons wanted to say hi to Solas, and various minor shades were too weak to stay away from the rifts.
But the desire demons? They had little to gain and a lot to lose from risking the rifts to target scared, stressed-out people. So they skedaddled.
I would bet cold hard cash that Tevinter will have plenty of desire demons. That’s got to be their best hunting ground. Imshael is a Forbidden One. (And stole Anders' mantle.)
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Post by colfoley on Jan 4, 2019 1:08:35 GMT
Imshael is a desire demon, though he hates that label. Choice. Spirit. One of his most redeeming qualities.
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Post by cankiie on Jan 4, 2019 1:08:59 GMT
But the desire demons? They had little to gain and a lot to lose from risking the rifts to target scared, stressed-out people. So they skedaddled. They weren't even in the fade itself. I chalk it up as bioware for some reason being afraid to include the sexy, demonic, almost naked body! Imshael was a terrible desire demon! He should have clad himself in less! Like... a mankini.
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Post by caladrius on Jan 4, 2019 1:09:42 GMT
I'm not really interested in dwarves or qunari. I could see a qunari maybe being interesting from a narrative perspective, but honestly I hate the qun as a philosophy and it seems awfully hard to find a twinky qunari, so I'm dubious. A qunari male mage that doesn't agree with the qun at all and also hates Tevinter for obvious reasons could be appealing. Maybe.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 4, 2019 1:11:07 GMT
Well, I said all orientations. There are gay guys and lesbians and straight women who prefer smooching humans and elves, too. DA2 got tons of backlash for Merrill and Isabela, both for their looks and personalities. It's kind of a staple in this fandom. Oh, I was just thinking about the whole 'straight men' thingy. I don't think I have heard many complaints from those about Merill or Isabella Oh, I have. That Merrill looked like an alien or a twelve-year-old, that she was stupid, that she was a blood mage. Complaints about Isabela's face and chin and skin color, complaining about her promiscuity, her not being honest about the relic, etc. That was mostly when DA2 came out. What usually happens is the criticism gets really strong until the next game comes out, and then people get disillusioned with the new game/characters, nostalgia kicks in and all of a sudden people love the previous one. (That's true of almost everything about DA2 lol).
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Post by colfoley on Jan 4, 2019 1:13:02 GMT
But the desire demons? They had little to gain and a lot to lose from risking the rifts to target scared, stressed-out people. So they skedaddled. They weren't even in the fade itself. I chalk it up as bioware for some reason being afraid to include the sexy, demonic, almost naked body! Imshael was a terrible desire demon! He should have clad himself in less! Like... a mankini. The problem is that for all demons it has been established, cannonically, they shape themselves to whatever you fear/ desire. Hence the "Spiders? You see Spiders? I'd have taken spiders!' line from Sera. I guess for whatever reason why BioWare finds it easier to craft a universal fear that everyone will at least feel uncomfortable with from an in character POV its a lot more difficult to craft something that is universally desirable. I think this thread is ample proof of that.
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Post by phoray on Jan 4, 2019 1:13:59 GMT
Am I the only one that just goes, "Ew. This character isn't for me." and just wander off to the next one without the need to say the character was disgusting due to an elaborate SJW plot?
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Post by cankiie on Jan 4, 2019 1:15:23 GMT
Oh, I was just thinking about the whole 'straight men' thingy. I don't think I have heard many complaints from those about Merill or Isabella Oh, I have. That Merrill looked like an alien or a twelve-year-old, that she was stupid, that she was a blood mage. Complaints about Isabela's face and chin and skin color, complaining about her promiscuity, her not being honest about the relic, etc. That was mostly when DA2 came out. What usually happens is the criticism gets really strong until the next game comes out, and then people get disillusioned with the new game/characters, nostalgia kicks in and all of a sudden people love the previous one. (That's true of almost everything about DA2 lol). I can believe the face thingies, although every single character in DA2 looked insanely horrible. I am not sure what engine or whatever bioware used, but it was horrible. And the criticism to the overall characters, fair enough. But Isabella's skin color? I can't believe someone were actually vocal about hating her skin color. There might have been a single person in in the masses... but. Mmm, well, it was a long time so.... /Shrug
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Post by colfoley on Jan 4, 2019 1:16:21 GMT
Am I the only one that just goes, "Ew. This character isn't for me." and just wander off to the next one without the need to say the character was disgusting due to an elaborate SJW plot? Granted I suppose I might bitch slightly if I found zero characters interesting in any given game or romance worthy with the character I was trying to roleplay, but even then it would probably be minor. As much as I enjoy the romances (and the occasional fantasy fullfillment) of these games I don't really play them just for the romance.
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Post by cankiie on Jan 4, 2019 1:17:08 GMT
They weren't even in the fade itself. I chalk it up as bioware for some reason being afraid to include the sexy, demonic, almost naked body! Imshael was a terrible desire demon! He should have clad himself in less! Like... a mankini. The problem is that for all demons it has been established, cannonically, they shape themselves to whatever you fear/ desire. Hence the "Spiders? You see Spiders? I'd have taken spiders!' line from Sera. I guess for whatever reason why BioWare finds it easier to craft a universal fear that everyone will at least feel uncomfortable with from an in character POV its a lot more difficult to craft something that is universally desirable. I think this thread is ample proof of that. We did not have similar excuses back in DA:O And DA2.
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Post by arvaarad on Jan 4, 2019 1:17:28 GMT
He should have clad himself in less! Like... a mankini. Oh I fully agree. It’s cool that some desire demons are nonsexual, but I would have preferred if the first masculine desire demon we meet hadn’t been that way. Male bodies are sexy too! If they wanted to show desire demons could target other kinds of desires, they could have started with Xebenkeck instead. She’s a draft dodger who flips out when books are destroyed, if any desire demon is gonna be a clothes-wearing nerd (or a nudist, but in a hippie way rather than a seductive way), it’s her.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 4, 2019 1:17:32 GMT
Oh, I have. That Merrill looked like an alien or a twelve-year-old, that she was stupid, that she was a blood mage. Complaints about Isabela's face and chin and skin color, complaining about her promiscuity, her not being honest about the relic, etc. That was mostly when DA2 came out. What usually happens is the criticism gets really strong until the next game comes out, and then people get disillusioned with the new game/characters, nostalgia kicks in and all of a sudden people love the previous one. (That's true of almost everything about DA2 lol). I can believe the face thingies, although every single character in DA2 looked insanely horrible. I am not sure what engine or whatever bioware used, but it was horrible. And the criticism to the overall characters, fair enough. But Isabella's skin color? I can't believe someone were actually vocal about hating her skin color. There might have been a single person in in the masses... but. Mmm, well, it was a long time so.... /Shrug It was pretty terrible. There's also that "blonde, blue-eyed, pale" Isabela mod but I try not to think about that too much tbh.
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Post by colfoley on Jan 4, 2019 1:20:01 GMT
The problem is that for all demons it has been established, cannonically, they shape themselves to whatever you fear/ desire. Hence the "Spiders? You see Spiders? I'd have taken spiders!' line from Sera. I guess for whatever reason why BioWare finds it easier to craft a universal fear that everyone will at least feel uncomfortable with from an in character POV its a lot more difficult to craft something that is universally desirable. I think this thread is ample proof of that. We did not have similar excuses back in DA:O And DA2. DAO and DA 2 were, with all due respect, less complicated games...at least from a lore/ story integration standpoint. There was a LOT of inconsistencies between the lore and gameplay/ presentation.... And if they go back to having the 'sexy' desire demons back for DA 4 I don't think I'd mind over much but if they go in another direction or give us more desire demons like Imshael those paths would be just as valid.
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Post by caladrius on Jan 4, 2019 1:21:38 GMT
Oh, I have. That Merrill looked like an alien or a twelve-year-old, that she was stupid, that she was a blood mage. Complaints about Isabela's face and chin and skin color, complaining about her promiscuity, her not being honest about the relic, etc. That was mostly when DA2 came out. What usually happens is the criticism gets really strong until the next game comes out, and then people get disillusioned with the new game/characters, nostalgia kicks in and all of a sudden people love the previous one. (That's true of almost everything about DA2 lol). I can believe the face thingies, although every single character in DA2 looked insanely horrible. I am not sure what engine or whatever bioware used, but it was horrible. And the criticism to the overall characters, fair enough. But Isabella's skin color? I can't believe someone were actually vocal about hating her skin color. There might have been a single person in in the masses... but. Mmm, well, it was a long time so.... /Shrug There were absolutely complaints about her skin color on the old BSN and even more complaints when the devs described her as being a black woman. There was a mod to make her white that I remember seeing people loudly declare they were going to use. I'm certain it wasn't anywhere near the majority of straight men, but then I'm not honestly convinced the majority of straight guys hated Cora or Morrigan's "man jaw". Seems like more of a vocal minority.
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Post by Catilina on Jan 4, 2019 1:22:20 GMT
Oh, I have. That Merrill looked like an alien or a twelve-year-old, that she was stupid, that she was a blood mage. Complaints about Isabela's face and chin and skin color, complaining about her promiscuity, her not being honest about the relic, etc. That was mostly when DA2 came out. What usually happens is the criticism gets really strong until the next game comes out, and then people get disillusioned with the new game/characters, nostalgia kicks in and all of a sudden people love the previous one. (That's true of almost everything about DA2 lol). I can believe the face thingies, although every single character in DA2 looked insanely horrible. I am not sure what engine or whatever bioware used, but it was horrible.
And the criticism to the overall characters, fair enough.
But Isabella's skin color? I can't believe someone were actually vocal about hating her skin color. There might have been a single person in in the masses... but.
Mmm, well, it was a long time so.... /Shrug
DA2 facial expressions were great.
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Post by dhalion on Jan 4, 2019 1:25:16 GMT
I'm not really interested in dwarves or qunari. I could see a qunari maybe being interesting from a narrative perspective, but honestly I hate the qun as a philosophy and it seems awfully hard to find a twinky qunari, so I'm dubious. A qunari male mage that doesn't agree with the qun at all and also hates Tevinter for obvious reasons could be appealing. Maybe. I hear you but have you considered this: tiny papas
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Post by Lady Artifice on Jan 4, 2019 1:26:44 GMT
I can believe the face thingies, although every single character in DA2 looked insanely horrible. I am not sure what engine or whatever bioware used, but it was horrible. And the criticism to the overall characters, fair enough. But Isabella's skin color? I can't believe someone were actually vocal about hating her skin color. There might have been a single person in in the masses... but. Mmm, well, it was a long time so.... /Shrug It was pretty terrible. There's also that "blonde, blue-eyed, pale" Isabela mod but I try not to think about that too much tbh. But madam, you have a blonde avatar. Is it not hypocritical, madam, to support the existence of one blonde character whilst detesting the calculated change of a different canonical character's darker coloring? For certainly, the opposition to one instance of blondness can only reasonably be indicative of an opposition to all cases of same. (and other ill-founded inanities... you know, just to get them out of the way as early as possible)
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 4, 2019 1:28:20 GMT
I'm not really interested in dwarves or qunari. I could see a qunari maybe being interesting from a narrative perspective, but honestly I hate the qun as a philosophy and it seems awfully hard to find a twinky qunari, so I'm dubious. A qunari male mage that doesn't agree with the qun at all and also hates Tevinter for obvious reasons could be appealing. Maybe. Thanks for answering! I might have to do a poll anyway, 'cause now I'm curious.
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Post by phoray on Jan 4, 2019 1:29:08 GMT
When I hear complaints about Bella's skin since I've joined the fandom two years ago, it is mostly the claim that they black-erased her because she's not midnight dark and her nose doesn't have the more flat wide african look to it<- but this in itself is one of many ways people of multi generational african descent can look. Isabella's father could have been super white, making her coloring a midway tone, but it would never occur to me not to call her black unless she told me not to. All that said, I find my brain struggling with this conversation. Skin color is absolutely irrelevant in a world where there is a different species to hate as well as a kind of super human to hate and has been inherently implied never to matter. You can't black erase someone in Dragon Age when being black never mattered. A black person in Dragon Age is not a bad or good representation of an African in a world where there is no Africa
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Post by caladrius on Jan 4, 2019 1:30:54 GMT
I'm not really interested in dwarves or qunari. I could see a qunari maybe being interesting from a narrative perspective, but honestly I hate the qun as a philosophy and it seems awfully hard to find a twinky qunari, so I'm dubious. A qunari male mage that doesn't agree with the qun at all and also hates Tevinter for obvious reasons could be appealing. Maybe. I hear you but have you considered this: tiny papas I guess I am now, but I'm not convinced it's enjoyable.
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Post by vertigomez on Jan 4, 2019 1:31:04 GMT
It was pretty terrible. There's also that "blonde, blue-eyed, pale" Isabela mod but I try not to think about that too much tbh. But madam, you have a blonde avatar. Is it not hypocritical, madam, to support the existence of one blonde character whilst detesting the calculated change of a different canonical character's darker coloring? For certainly, the opposition to one instance of blondness can only reasonably be indicative of an opposition to all cases of same. (and other ill-founded inanities... you know, just to get them out of the way as early as possible) I love Sera without regard to her skin/eye/hair color. Waifu.
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Post by cankiie on Jan 4, 2019 1:32:05 GMT
There were absolutely complaints about her skin color on the old BSN and even more complaints when the devs described her as being a black woman. There was a mod to make her white that I remember seeing people loudly declare they were going to use. I'm certain it wasn't anywhere near the majority of straight men, but then I'm not honestly convinced the majority of straight guys hated Cora or Morrigan's "man jaw". Seems like more of a vocal minority. Well, I never managed to follow Mass Effect Andromeda past the many other complaints about the game. Such as the animations, the general dialogue, the combat, the female PC default character being made so extremely ugly compared to it's real life model, while the male PC default was made to be much closer to the real life model. Game had lots of complaints not related to the romanceables. Also, I did not know about Morrigan's man chaw, at least not in DA:O, in DA:I I can see it, but yeah... her face looks rather slim in DA:O.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2019 1:33:41 GMT
I can believe the face thingies, although every single character in DA2 looked insanely horrible. I am not sure what engine or whatever bioware used, but it was horrible. And the criticism to the overall characters, fair enough. But Isabella's skin color? I can't believe someone were actually vocal about hating her skin color. There might have been a single person in in the masses... but. Mmm, well, it was a long time so.... /Shrug There were absolutely complaints about her skin color on the old BSN and even more complaints when the devs described her as being a black woman. There was a mod to make her white that I remember seeing people loudly declare they were going to use. I'm certain it wasn't anywhere near the majority of straight men, but then I'm not honestly convinced the majority of straight guys hated Cora or Morrigan's "man jaw". Seems like more of a vocal minority. They never called her black. Just non-white.
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Post by caladrius on Jan 4, 2019 1:38:02 GMT
There were absolutely complaints about her skin color on the old BSN and even more complaints when the devs described her as being a black woman. There was a mod to make her white that I remember seeing people loudly declare they were going to use. I'm certain it wasn't anywhere near the majority of straight men, but then I'm not honestly convinced the majority of straight guys hated Cora or Morrigan's "man jaw". Seems like more of a vocal minority. Well, I never managed to follow Mass Effect Andromeda past the many other complaints about the game. Such as the animations, the general dialogue, the combat, the female PC default character being made so extremely ugly compared to it's real life model, while the male PC default was made to be much closer to the real life model. Game had lots of complaints not related to the romanceables. Also, I did not know about Morrigan's man chaw, at least not in DA:O, in DA:I I can see it, but yeah... her face looks rather slim in DA:O. Yes, it was the Inquisition version that got complaints. I didn't think Scott was that close to looking like the model, tbh. I wonder if it's just that straight dudes aren't adept at appraising other dudes, but I thought he was pretty different. I thought he looked better, but ngl, I actually saw some gay guys complaining he wasn't as hot as the super ripped model. So, maybe it's perspective. lol
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Post by cankiie on Jan 4, 2019 1:39:40 GMT
Regardless, Isabella was black all the way back in Dragon Age: Origins.
Tis' why it seems like a very bizarre thing
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