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Post by smilesja on Dec 8, 2018 21:44:13 GMT
Well as being part of the "Anti-SJW brigade" I would hope that the character has more personality than just being trans. That was the issue with Krem and any other trans BW characters BW has done. Why can't the person just be a person, who cares if they're trans or not. Putting too much emphasis on a character's identity or sexuality is just uninteresting; and that goes for any character. Sure have this character, but I don't want an entire lecture about how they are trans. If the topic comes up, let it come up naturally. For example; If the player tries to romance that character. Otherwise there is no reason for the character to say "oh by the way, I'm trans." At that point it causes me to roll my eyes, and it does feel "forced" or as if BW is checking off boxes. Anyway that's just my 2 cents. Krem was a good character. Didn’t feel forced to me.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Dec 8, 2018 21:48:17 GMT
Not going to happen. BioWare's last game got slandered just because a bunch of raging neo-Nazi troglodytes shit their pants about the game, then gaming journalists saw that horde of psychotic losers and decided they wanted rabid assholes like that to be their audience. If Maevaris was included, gaming journalists would once again gladly invent bullshit to attack the game with, just to get clicks from human garbage. Such a shame, really. Wew lad.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 8, 2018 21:55:16 GMT
Well as being part of the "Anti-SJW brigade" I would hope that the character has more personality than just being trans. That was the issue with Krem and any other trans BW characters BW has done. Why can't the person just be a person, who cares if they're trans or not. Putting too much emphasis on a character's identity or sexuality is just uninteresting; and that goes for any character. Sure have this character, but I don't want an entire lecture about how they are trans. If the topic comes up, let it come up naturally. For example; If the player tries to romance that character. Otherwise there is no reason for the character to say "oh by the way, I'm trans." At that point it causes me to roll my eyes, and it does feel "forced" or as if BW is checking off boxes. Anyway that's just my 2 cents. Krem was a good character. Didn’t feel forced to me. It would've been much better without the three-option dialogue wheel where you can harp on the matter when he starts talking about binding jokingly. Krem as a character isn't forced, but they made him being trans a bigger thing than it needed to be. But I guess this is like with Dorian, make a big deal about homosexuality (or in Krem's case being transgender) once and talk it out completely, so that in future you don't have to discuss it. DA:I made it clear trans people exist, now they can just exist without putting a magnifying class on it. Still think Krem could've been handled better. It didn't need to be a point of interest when it first comes up and it didn't need Iron Bull's opinion on the matter (which then caused a lot of butthurt about retconning the Qun).
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Post by KingDarious BBB on Dec 8, 2018 22:14:29 GMT
I see some people saying the far right would have a issue with this. I agree with that sentiment, but to be fair I can also see some people on the far left causing a shit storm. For example let's say she's a romance option, and some people don't want to romance her because of their own personal preference. I can easily see a Riley Dennis making a video talking about it and making it a bigger deal than it really is.
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 8, 2018 22:17:47 GMT
Not going to happen. BioWare's last game got slandered just because a bunch of raging neo-Nazi troglodytes shit their pants about the game, then gaming journalists saw that horde of psychotic losers and decided they wanted rabid assholes like that to be their audience. If Maevaris was included, gaming journalists would once again gladly invent bullshit to attack the game with, just to get clicks from human garbage. Such a shame, really. BioWare's reaction to people who object to their characters being female/gay/lesbian/bisexual/pansexual/trans/black/etc. etc. has consistently been 'we're going to make whatever characters we want, so don't let the door hit you in the arse on the way out.' I doubt they're going to stop now, no matter how many people complain about a trans character existing in a video game.
I feel confidant that Maevaris will appear in #TheDreadWolfRises in some capacity. Fingers crossed she's a companion - if important people like Cassandra and Vivienne could travel around fighting bandits with the Inquisitor, I don't see any reason Mae shouldn't be out in the field as well. I want to hear more about her relationship with Thorold! Any woman who has the good taste to marry Varric's cousin and be friends with Dorian is OK in my book.
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 8, 2018 22:19:50 GMT
I see some people saying the far right would have a issue with this. I agree with that sentiment, but to be far I can also see some people on the far left causing a shit storm. For example let's say she's a romance option, and some people don't want to romance her because of their own personal preference. I can easily see a Riley Dennis making a video talking about it and making it a bigger deal than it really is. To be "far", no one on the "far-left" complaining about something in a BioWare game has ever threatened to kill the developers.
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Post by KingDarious BBB on Dec 8, 2018 22:40:49 GMT
I see some people saying the far right would have a issue with this. I agree with that sentiment, but to be far I can also see some people on the far left causing a shit storm. For example let's say she's a romance option, and some people don't want to romance her because of their own personal preference. I can easily see a Riley Dennis making a video talking about it and making it a bigger deal than it really is. To be "far", no one on the "far-left" complaining about something in a BioWare game has ever threatened to kill the developers. LMAO can't believe I misspelled fair. All I'm saying people on the left can blow things out of proportion too. I remember when it was revealed that straight men had the most romance options for Mass Effect Andromeda. There was an outrage from those on the left saying BioWare was trying to hard to appeal to "Bro Gamers". Mass Effect Andromeda was taking hits from both sides.
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 8, 2018 22:43:49 GMT
LMAO can't believe I misspelled fair. All I'm saying people on left can blow things out of proportion too. I remember when it was revealed that straight men had the most romance options for Mass Effect Andromeda. There was an outrage from those on the left saying BioWare was trying to hard to appeal to "Bro Gamers". Mass Effect Andromeda was taking hits from both sides. Sure. One side wished for more romance options, the other side threatened to rape and kill women who worked on the game because Peebee was "ugly." Both sides, yanno.
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Post by KingDarious BBB on Dec 8, 2018 23:18:16 GMT
LMAO can't believe I misspelled fair. All I'm saying people on left can blow things out of proportion too. I remember when it was revealed that straight men had the most romance options for Mass Effect Andromeda. There was an outrage from those on the left saying BioWare was trying to hard to appeal to "Bro Gamers". Mass Effect Andromeda was taking hits from both sides. Sure. One side wished for more romance options, the other side threatened to rape and kill women who worked on the game because Peebee was "ugly." Both sides, yanno. Clearly one side causes more problems than the other. I never said both are equal. I'm just pointing out the left can cause unnecessary issues too. I wasn't aware of the death threats over Peebee appearance. The only thing I remember were the memes people made of her saying she looked like Shrek and a ninja turtle.
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Post by jrpN7 on Dec 8, 2018 23:20:33 GMT
Would love this. She's a great character with a lot of potential, and I think she'd add a lot of interesting dialogue if she were to be a companion. Her presence may cause a stir and people may be vocal... but in the end, there's no such thing as "forced diversity." You've either taught yourself to be a decent human being with an open mind or you're a fossil who comes up with terms like "forced diversity" to cover your racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png)
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 8, 2018 23:43:27 GMT
Would love this. She's a great character with a lot of potential, and I think she'd add a lot of interesting dialogue if she were to be a companion. Her presence may cause a stir and people may be vocal... but in the end, there's no such thing as "forced diversity." You've either taught yourself to be a decent human being with an open mind or you're a fossil who comes up with terms like "forced diversity" to cover your racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png) There is such a thing, though the term is often misapplied. There is the situation such as if such a character is inserted simply because someone deemed the existing cast “too white/straight” or something. Or if a character exists simply to be “the minority character”. More legitimately, if characters of a given race are unlikely to exist in a historical setting but a story crowbars one in for the sake of pandering, that could rightly be called forced diversity. That doesn’t really apply to fantasy settings where that diversity is established to exist however, such as Thedas. That being said, I don’t want Maevaris and Dorian to be companions for reasons have nothing to do with their gender or sexuality. I want them to be Magisters leading a political movement, which means I expect they won’t have time to be following us around. I would love to have them as advisors though.
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Post by jrpN7 on Dec 9, 2018 0:11:00 GMT
Would love this. She's a great character with a lot of potential, and I think she'd add a lot of interesting dialogue if she were to be a companion. Her presence may cause a stir and people may be vocal... but in the end, there's no such thing as "forced diversity." You've either taught yourself to be a decent human being with an open mind or you're a fossil who comes up with terms like "forced diversity" to cover your racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png) There is such a thing, though the term is often misapplied. There is the situation such as if such a character is inserted simply because someone deemed the existing cast “too white/straight” or something. Or if a character exists simply to be “the minority character”. More legitimately, if characters of a given race are unlikely to exist in a historical setting but a story crowbars one in for the sake of pandering, that could rightly be called forced diversity. That doesn’t really apply to fantasy settings where that diversity is established to exist however, such as Thedas. That being said, I don’t want Maevaris and Dorian to be companions for reasons have nothing to do with their gender or sexuality. I want them to be Magisters leading a political movement, which means I expect they won’t have time to be following us around. I would love to have them as advisors though. Suppose I see what you mean by a "token character" and no, I wouldn't want Dorian or Maevaris around just because of their sexuality or gender, but that's rarely ever the case and furthermore, I don't think it justifies the abhorrent backlash that games and movies sometimes receive over it. Diversity is a real thing too and people exist the way they are without purposefully inserting themselves in any setting. It just is. When one really analyzes a character, you'll find that very rarely is a character inserted into any video game or movie solely on the reason for their sexuality, gender or skin color. Sure, the topic may come up in conversation and this is where people lose their minds, but the characters usually ALWAYS have a defining addition like a skill or trait or even a fitting background story that amplifies the setting and story. I think people forget these other credible and defining traits because they so quickly and easily get hung up on that characters sexuality, gender or skin color and can't look past that. Krem, for example, was trans. People complained "forced diversity." But how different is that in real life? Not very. It is just as likely you'll run into a trans person in a pub in real life as the Inquisitor would in Thedas. Krem was so much more than just being trans, yet I read in YouTube comments that people chose to kill the Bull's Chargers in the Storm Coast purely because of Krem being trans. It's silly that those victimizing themselves over "forced diversity" are the ones who end up pulling off this shallow "forced non-diversity" stunt.
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 9, 2018 0:11:52 GMT
Man, I just want to see her being big sisterly with Dorian. Can't I have that?
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 9, 2018 0:25:24 GMT
Would love this. She's a great character with a lot of potential, and I think she'd add a lot of interesting dialogue if she were to be a companion. Her presence may cause a stir and people may be vocal... but in the end, there's no such thing as "forced diversity." You've either taught yourself to be a decent human being with an open mind or you're a fossil who comes up with terms like "forced diversity" to cover your racism, sexism, homophobia and transphobia. ![:)](//storage.proboards.com/6576594/images/KGsHESiZGZU0pPuHuhQr.png) There is such a thing, though the term is often misapplied. There is the situation such as if such a character is inserted simply because someone deemed the existing cast “too white/straight” or something. Or if a character exists simply to be “the minority character”. More legitimately, if characters of a given race are unlikely to exist in a historical setting but a story crowbars one in for the sake of pandering, that could rightly be called forced diversity. That doesn’t really apply to fantasy settings where that diversity is established to exist however, such as Thedas. That being said, I don’t want Maevaris and Dorian to be companions for reasons have nothing to do with their gender or sexuality. I want them to be Magisters leading a political movement, which means I expect they won’t have time to be following us around. I would love to have them as advisors though. I don't really understand the '' add diversity because the cast feels too one-sided '' being a bad thing. What are you afraid of happening, that the diverse characters aren't as well written? Adding several diverse characters will handled that '' the minority character '' issue though, but nobody ever suggests that adding more than one would kind of erase the issue of being a token.
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Post by masterwarderz on Dec 9, 2018 0:30:57 GMT
I see some people saying the far right would have a issue with this. I agree with that sentiment, but to be far I can also see some people on the far left causing a shit storm. For example let's say she's a romance option, and some people don't want to romance her because of their own personal preference. I can easily see a Riley Dennis making a video talking about it and making it a bigger deal than it really is. To be "far", no one on the "far-left" complaining about something in a BioWare game has ever threatened to kill the developers. I somehow doubt this was real.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 9, 2018 0:32:30 GMT
Suppose I see what you mean by a "token character" and no, I wouldn't want Dorian or Maevaris around just because of their sexuality or gender, but that's rarely ever the case and furthermore, I don't think it justifies the abhorrent backlash that games and movies sometimes receive over it. I wouldn’t justify any of that. I prefer not to speak of generalities though. My experience hasn’t been that there are only two sides to the conversation, or that criticisms of the way diversity is handled is limited only to those motivated by prejudice. Diversity is real and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with portraying it. Forced diversity isn’t really a diversity problem, it’s a pandering problem. That being said, I’ve become a bit jaded from experience with people who seem to think diversity being good means there should be a mandate on media to be diverse, which I don’t agree with, such as the backlash in some corners trying to tar CDPR as a bunch of racists because The Witcher trilogy cast is entirely white.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Dec 9, 2018 0:34:57 GMT
I'll chime in on a serious note here. I can assure pro-trans folks in this thread that all anyone wants is a well written character. It may be harder if said character is trans, but it's totally worth doing if Bioware is committed to the idea. I'm agnostic as to whether they do it or not, but I absolutely don't want any character to feel like a token character. Verisimilitude.
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Post by Heimdall on Dec 9, 2018 0:35:24 GMT
There is such a thing, though the term is often misapplied. There is the situation such as if such a character is inserted simply because someone deemed the existing cast “too white/straight” or something. Or if a character exists simply to be “the minority character”. More legitimately, if characters of a given race are unlikely to exist in a historical setting but a story crowbars one in for the sake of pandering, that could rightly be called forced diversity. That doesn’t really apply to fantasy settings where that diversity is established to exist however, such as Thedas. That being said, I don’t want Maevaris and Dorian to be companions for reasons have nothing to do with their gender or sexuality. I want them to be Magisters leading a political movement, which means I expect they won’t have time to be following us around. I would love to have them as advisors though. I don't really understand the '' add diversity because the cast feels too one-sided '' being a bad thing. What are you afraid of happening, that the diverse characters aren't as well written? Adding several diverse characters will handled that '' the minority character '' issue though, but nobody ever suggests that adding more than one would kind of erase the issue of being a token. The problem lies in the diagnosis that a superficially homogenous cast is inherently a bad thing to be corrected. That’s not an argument against a superficially diverse cast, but neither is one inherently more interesting or better.
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Post by arcanistranger on Dec 9, 2018 0:38:55 GMT
Diversity is real and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with portraying it. Forced diversity isn’t really a diversity problem, it’s a pandering problem. That being said, I’ve become a bit jaded from experience with people who seem to think diversity being good means there should be a mandate on media to be diverse, which I don’t agree with, such as the backlash in some corners trying to tar CDPR as a bunch of racists because The Witcher trilogy cast is entirely white. The only dark-skinned character in Witcher 3 is a succubus meant to look "exotic." That says more than a complete absence.
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Post by witchcocktor on Dec 9, 2018 0:46:17 GMT
I don't really understand the '' add diversity because the cast feels too one-sided '' being a bad thing. What are you afraid of happening, that the diverse characters aren't as well written? Adding several diverse characters will handled that '' the minority character '' issue though, but nobody ever suggests that adding more than one would kind of erase the issue of being a token. The problem lies in the diagnosis that a superficially homogenous cast is inherently a bad thing to be corrected. That’s not an argument against a superficially diverse cast, but neither is one inherently more interesting or better. Hmjmmmh I guess that's true. But I definitely think that deciding on wanting to have a homogenous cast in a piece of media which has a setting that has all the possibility to be diverse, does raise my eyebrow. But having entertainment that doesn't aim for diversity at any level despite having a setting that doesn't go against diversity, it wouldn't be such a problem for some would there be more media that did have that diversity. But nevertheless, artists have all the right to express themselves and create whatever they please, that should never change, and neither my right to raise my bushy eyebrows. But the Witcher thing is just totally stupid, historically accurate pieces of media should remain historically accurate.
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Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,071
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 9, 2018 0:46:21 GMT
I don't think a new trans character would feel "forced" at all - no more than the bajillions of cis characters have felt "forced" Don't you know? New LGBT characters are always forced. They need to have existed beforehand. I call it The SJW Pander-ox.
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inherit
9105
0
Aug 11, 2017 18:04:01 GMT
8,872
slimgrin727
I don't stir, I work the material.
3,649
Jul 28, 2017 17:05:24 GMT
July 2017
slimgrin727
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Post by slimgrin727 on Dec 9, 2018 0:46:33 GMT
Diversity is real and there’s absolutely nothing wrong with portraying it. Forced diversity isn’t really a diversity problem, it’s a pandering problem. That being said, I’ve become a bit jaded from experience with people who seem to think diversity being good means there should be a mandate on media to be diverse, which I don’t agree with, such as the backlash in some corners trying to tar CDPR as a bunch of racists because The Witcher trilogy cast is entirely white. The only dark-skinned character in Witcher 3 is a succubus meant to look "exotic." That says more than a complete absence. ![](https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/facebook/000/015/652/230114_908223010.jpg)
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inherit
Elvis Has Left The Building
7794
0
Oct 31, 2020 23:57:02 GMT
8,071
pessimistpanda
3,804
Apr 18, 2017 15:57:34 GMT
April 2017
pessimistpanda
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 9, 2018 0:50:11 GMT
Well as being part of the "Anti-SJW brigade" I would hope that the character has more personality than just being trans. That was the issue with Krem and any other trans BW characters BW has done. Why can't the person just be a person Turns out SJWs ALSO want minority characters to be well-written, surprise surprise. I suspect the issue is less with the characters, but that you set the bar higher for them.
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inherit
813
0
Jun 26, 2019 23:40:38 GMT
5,054
thats1evildude
2,478
August 2016
thats1evildude
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition
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Post by thats1evildude on Dec 9, 2018 0:53:33 GMT
I guess we still have a way to go on transgender acceptance, and I include myself in that statement. I still find it be kinda weird. Maybe a transgender companion would help with that.
However, what I DON’T want to see is a romance with a character you find out later is transgender - and who knowingly failed to disclose that information - with the notion of teaching us a “lesson” about tolerance. I would learn no lesson there. I would just feel betrayed.
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