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Post by Artemis on Dec 9, 2018 4:32:46 GMT
Not going to happen. BioWare's last game got slandered just because a bunch of raging neo-Nazi troglodytes shit their pants about the game, then gaming journalists saw that horde of psychotic losers and decided they wanted rabid assholes like that to be their audience. If Maevaris was included, gaming journalists would once again gladly invent bullshit to attack the game with, just to get clicks from human garbage. Such a shame, really. That’s interesting, I thought people hated it because it was a buggy mess with a forgettable plot, antagonist, squadmates, and main character. Anyway, remember that one minor Trans NPC in Andromeda? She dead named herself and that caused massive criticism about how she was written. It also isn't true, considering that BioWare added in bi Jaal at fan requests and fixed the trans characters problematic dialogue. BioWare don't care about bigots and never have. Their attempts at inclusion are often clumsy and awkward but they don't really react to people who accuse them of "catering" to minorities.
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Post by General Mahad on Dec 9, 2018 4:35:56 GMT
That’s interesting, I thought people hated it because it was a buggy mess with a forgettable plot, antagonist, squadmates, and main character. Anyway, remember that one minor Trans NPC in Andromeda? She dead named herself and that caused massive criticism about how she was written. It also isn't true, considering that BioWare added in bi Jaal at fan requests and fixed the trans characters problematic dialogue. BioWare don't care about bigots and never have. Their attempts at inclusion are often clumsy and awkward but they don't really react to people who accuse them of "catering" to minorities. They apparently don’t care for Q&A testing neither.
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Post by Artemis on Dec 9, 2018 4:38:37 GMT
It also isn't true, considering that BioWare added in bi Jaal at fan requests and fixed the trans characters problematic dialogue. BioWare don't care about bigots and never have. Their attempts at inclusion are often clumsy and awkward but they don't really react to people who accuse them of "catering" to minorities. They apparently don’t care for Q&A testing neither. Their games don't really ship with a ton of bugs tbh. Not compared to other companies. And they release patches regularly and promptly.
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Post by 10k on Dec 9, 2018 4:38:52 GMT
Varys from Game of Thrones is asexual. Even before he was castrated, he said he wasn’t interested in men or women. The difficulty with portraying asexuality is that it’s defined by the absence of sexual attraction, and to be honest, portraying the absence of something is pretty difficult. Yeah I know. Which is why it really isn't a big deal for me personally. I think for the most part BW does pretty good in representing just about everyone. I just think a character's personality, and motivations are more important to worry about, than rather or not the character is gay, straight, or whatever. I just really don't care about how a individual identify.
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Post by Artemis on Dec 9, 2018 4:41:04 GMT
Varys from Game of Thrones is asexual. Even before he was castrated, he said he wasn’t interested in men or women. The difficulty with portraying asexuality is that it’s defined by the absence of sexual attraction, and to be honest, portraying the absence of something is pretty difficult. Yeah I know. Which is why it really isn't a big deal for me personally. I think for the most part BW does pretty good in representing just about everyone. I just think a character's personality, and motivations are more important to worry about, than rather or not the character is gay, straight, or whatever. I just really don't care about how a individual identify. I care when they reject me
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Post by NotN7 on Dec 9, 2018 4:56:02 GMT
That’s interesting, I thought people hated it because it was a buggy mess with a forgettable plot, antagonist, squadmates, and main character. Anyway, remember that one minor Trans NPC in Andromeda? She dead named herself and that caused massive criticism about how she was written. It also isn't true, considering that BioWare added in bi Jaal at fan requests and fixed the trans characters problematic dialogue. BioWare don't care about bigots and never have. Their attempts at inclusion are often clumsy and awkward but they don't really react to people who accuse them of "catering" to minorities. true we live in a very divisive world there should be no room for hate for those (and that includes ME) born as they are. They sorry WE had no say so, so as I said before live and let live hate will not change anything.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 9, 2018 4:59:26 GMT
They apparently don’t care for Q&A testing neither. Their games don't really ship with a ton of bugs tbh. Not compared to other companies. And they release patches regularly and promptly. How soon we forget...
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Post by smilesja on Dec 9, 2018 6:13:22 GMT
BioWare does it better. It hasn't for a long time now, last memorable companion I actually enjoyed was free DLC for ME2 Nah they still got it!
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Dec 9, 2018 6:32:54 GMT
I guess we still have a way to go on transgender acceptance There is a difference between "acceptance" in so far as their right to exist and live within a society as an equal to any other and having them be foisted upon as some sort of "grand social commentary" on the matter. A vast gulf in my eye. The only voice of reason here.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Dec 9, 2018 6:46:32 GMT
Actually fair as I can tell, until DAI no one really had problems with homosexuality in mainstream Thedas, it was common enough to be a fetish catered to in a brothel in DAO. Not until Dorian brought up the Tveinter perspective did we actually run into something resembling what you discuss, but if you aren't discussing in game, then you are discussing outside politics, and the game is not meant to be a social commentary, that's my entire grievance with its inclusion to begin with. That's such bullshit. I visit 4chan frequently and the DA threads, and despite everyone taking a shit on " Cisquisition " people are crying about ugly manface Cassandra, ugly tumblrbrat pigface Sera, boring combat, MMORPG fetch quests and Qun retcon. Dorian is often said to be a decent, if not great companion albeit his subpar story. And are they wrong? I played ME2 7 times. I played ME3, 1.5 times and DAI just one time... because they were boring and they crapped on previous characters/factions.
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Post by General Mahad on Dec 9, 2018 6:48:08 GMT
Any time someone says "I don't want politics in my media" what they really mean is "I don't want politics I don't personally agree with to be in my media." Don't pretend like this isn't the case. Instead of being ornery about it, you could try, I don't know, not engaging with the media in question? Better than bringing negativity to yourself and others. Does this also apply to the side who claim that if video game don't have (insert marginalized group) then they are racist/misogynistic/tranphobia and alike?
Just curious.
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Post by smilesja on Dec 9, 2018 7:01:50 GMT
There is a difference between "acceptance" in so far as their right to exist and live within a society as an equal to any other and having them be foisted upon as some sort of "grand social commentary" on the matter. A vast gulf in my eye. The only voice of reason here. Who wants them to be hoisted up? All the people here wanted is to have representation and good characterization. Tell me how is that post you’re quoting so different from the other “unreasonable” posts?
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Post by KingDarious BBB on Dec 9, 2018 7:09:40 GMT
I guess we still have a way to go on transgender acceptance, and I include myself in that statement. I still find it be kinda weird. Maybe a transgender companion would help with that. However, what I DON’T want to see is a romance with a character you find out later is transgender - and who knowingly failed to disclose that information - with the notion of teaching us a “lesson” about tolerance. I would learn no lesson there. I would just feel betrayed. This is the only real issue I can see happening for including Mae, and that's only if BioWare decides to have her as a romance option. At what point during the romance does she tell the person romancing her she's trans? Is it during the beginning while you're just flirting with her, or much later while you're locked into a relationship with her. If it's the later and you're not interested can you end the relationship? Depending on how BioWare choose to tackle this it could create a shit storm.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Dec 9, 2018 7:13:31 GMT
The only voice of reason here. Who wants them to be hoisted up? All the people here wanted is to have representation and good characterization. Tell me how is that post you’re quoting so different from the other “unreasonable” posts? That was a quote of support. But I can say about the history and the "trend" in Bioware games toward playersexuality and sex change, ruining older factions (Cerberus, Wardens, Templars etc.), making previous characters F-ing ugly by purpose (specially in Inquisition) etc. TIM was all hype and dandy back in 2010-11. Now you barely see anyone using him as his avatar. Most cool people with Templar avatars from 2008-13 are gone. Look what we're stuck with. pfft
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Post by Artemis on Dec 9, 2018 7:45:29 GMT
The only voice of reason here. Who wants them to be hoisted up? All the people here wanted is to have representation and good characterization. Tell me how is that post you’re quoting so different from the other “unreasonable” posts? The question that comes to mind when I read about 50% of the posts on this board: "Are you a bigot or just ignorant as f***? Just curious."
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 9, 2018 7:50:03 GMT
But I can say about the history and the "trend" in Bioware games toward playersexuality and sex change If anything, there's a trend AWAY from 'playersexuality' in this series. Dragon Age 2 had four bisexual love interests and one straight one, whereas Inquisition had four straight, one gay, one lesbian, one bisexual and one pansexual. That's more specific, not less.
And no existing character has changed their sex (or, perhaps more accurately, their gender presentation) during a Dragon Age game. A couple of trans characters have appeared, both of whom started presenting the way they do long before we encountered them.
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Post by Dirk on Dec 9, 2018 7:55:00 GMT
Bioware definitely needs to improve lgbtq+ representation in both quality and quantities. I appreciate their previous inclusions but much works needs to be done. lgbtq+ representations in Bioware games tend to follow certain tropes, so I would like to see they diversify lgbtq+ characters and put them into important roles! To that end, having Maevaris playing important role like a companion or an adviser is a good idea that I totally support. And I hope that her character is treated with respect.
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Post by Arijon van Goyen on Dec 9, 2018 7:55:33 GMT
Sorry that I don't give a rooster shit about these gender studies words. "sexual orientation" I meant
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Post by Andraste_Reborn on Dec 9, 2018 7:58:39 GMT
Sorry that I don't give a rooster shit about these gender studies words. "sexual orientation" I meant You think there's a trend towards characters in BioWare games having a sexual orientation???
Because I am pretty sure they've all had those from the moment Khalid and Jaheira turned out to be married.
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Post by Artemis on Dec 9, 2018 8:01:31 GMT
Sorry that I don't give a rooster shit about these gender studies words. "sexual orientation" I meant Right then, pegging this one as "ignorant as f***". Haha seriously, that's so sad. Imagine being an adult and not knowing the difference between sex and sexual orientation! Like, my fricking 87 year old grandma knows the difference lmao
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Post by Nightscrawl on Dec 9, 2018 8:30:30 GMT
This thread is actually not going as quite as badly as I thought it would. Are we reading the same thread?
We even had someone suggesting bait and switch, which is an irrational fear to have in relation to a video game character, especially from Bioware. So yeah, it's not going too well. People need to get The Crying Game out of their head because it's not going to happen.
[edit] Poor Maevaris. I don't think she deserves to have threads about her devolve this way.
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Post by Aliaspig on Dec 9, 2018 8:33:56 GMT
Any time someone says "I don't want politics in my media" what they really mean is "I don't want politics I don't personally agree with to be in my media." Don't pretend like this isn't the case. Instead of being ornery about it, you could try, I don't know, not engaging with the media in question? Better than bringing negativity to yourself and others. Does this also apply to the side who claim that if video game don't have (insert marginalized group) then they are racist/misogynistic/tranphobia and alike?
Just curious.
lmao! I'm going to ignore the condescension that is practically dripping from this post and actually reply. Against my better judgement. I would like to point out that any media that doesn't have any kind of diversity is making just as much of a political statement as one that does. The difference is that media that doesn't bother with diversity or giving it's diverse characters the resources it gives it's majority characters vastly outnumbers media that actually does try with diversity. And, yeah, I don't engage with media and companies that have vastly different political views than I do if I can help it. And I certainly don't go to their forums just to complain about it. It wouldn't change much, just frustrate everyone involved.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 9, 2018 8:40:54 GMT
Real world politics - gender identity or otherwise - will not be discussed in this thread or any thread on this forum save for the Political Discussion thread.
If you wish to discuss this character, how they might be included in The Dread Wolf Rises and whether they should or shouldn't be romanceable then that is fine.
Discussing whether or not such inclusion is "forced diversity" or not liking such inclusion is "bigotry" will not be permitted and considered actionable.
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Post by SofaJockey on Dec 9, 2018 9:44:23 GMT
This thread is actually not going as quite as badly as I thought it would. Are we reading the same thread?
...
[edit] Poor Maevaris. I don't think she deserves to have threads about her devolve this way.
MODERATOR POST
Maevaris is an important character lore-wise. This is a conversation this forum should be capable of having without a car crash, though we appear to have had a few near misses already. Let's see if we can manage it without poking or provoking others and without engaging in slurs, please. I'll be more than happy to receive PM alerts if the temperature starts rising and of course do report anything that crosses the line. As far as I'm concerned, this thread is going to keep on trucking, don't be a poster that ends up in the ditch. Thanks.
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Post by Dirk on Dec 9, 2018 10:08:25 GMT
Mae has a dead husband - hopefully that doesn't make her too tropey, as I'd like to romance her. Letting her be bi would be the best! I personally prefer having important characters bi for the fairness sake, though I still want to see important gay or lesbian characters as well. Such a tough choice sometimes about what I want haha.
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