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Post by Ody-N7S on Dec 10, 2018 16:24:31 GMT
I am looking for opinions, explanations, theories to help me understand some of biotic powers that were brought in game, but lore wise. Reave, Dominate, Biotic Charge, Dark Channel, Shockwave, and feel free to add others. What kind of damage they do? How can it heal living tissue? How can it control mind of organic? How does it know when organic or synthetic target is dead/destroyed so it jumps to next alive/active/hostile target. Would Charge require target? Stuff like that. If there is topic about this existing already feel free to redirect me to it.
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Post by SwobyJ on Dec 10, 2018 17:54:18 GMT
It gets weirder as the series continues
But I imagine many of these moves are just a precision thing, intuitive through organic minds. When healing ourselves, we're 'weaving' the mass of our tissue into a pseudo-healed position (which medigel itself can do, or similar). Mind controlling is, again an intuitive attack that alters the tiny parts of the opponent's brain - not to a perfect extent but enough to change their friend/foe perception.
There's a lot of attacks that I think assume up to years of particular training that we don't see.
I don't think Charge would require a moving target, but some sort of target encourages focus.
Biotics is an intentional mystery still. We get it on the scale that the Alliance has it (uh, like Throw, Barrier), but then other societies like Asari have their more esoteric approach. There's room for some more scientific (in-world) understanding of biotics, but its nature has seemingly discouraged very deep understanding. The Turians wield it, but don't like it. The Salarians may study it, but don't seem to like to focus on something so mysterious for now. Honestly Cerberus probably did more biotics research in centuries.
In MEA we have Ellen Ryder who did earlier work on biotic implants for humans. That may not be a throwaway detail, so maybe we can learn more.
Biotics really is magical to most people, and study of it seems like a well that you won't climb out of, so most don't do it. It feels suggested that only humanity has the inventiveness to really care so much, while the asari might have a deeper but more spiritual take on it, and others just want to capitalize on it in their own ways.
Biotics is also new to the Heleus Cluster and perhaps much of Andromeda, so we can see how people there will react to and decide to study biotics.
But yeah, when we do those epic biotic moves, much of it is intuitive thinking and reflexes much like a mage in Dragon Age. You think it, you practice it, and it turns out to have an effect, so you train it more. In some way or another, you're 'hacking' what is the normal state of existence and physics, and that has to do with micro or macro states of gravity, mass. We even have suggestions that this operates on the 'quantum' level. 'Biotic Blink'
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Post by RedCaesar97 on Dec 12, 2018 1:06:09 GMT
I am looking for opinions, explanations, theories to help me understand some of biotic powers that were brought in game, but lore wise. Reave, Dominate, Biotic Charge, Dark Channel, Shockwave, and feel free to add others. What kind of damage they do? How can it heal living tissue? How can it control mind of organic? How does it know when organic or synthetic target is dead/destroyed so it jumps to next alive/active/hostile target. Would Charge require target? Stuff like that. If there is topic about this existing already feel free to redirect me to it. If you are looking for lore reasons why some biotic powers behave the way they do, good luck with that. Most of them were created with gameplay in mind rather than trying to adhere to any lore. I wouldn't put too much thought into it. That being said, from the codex in ME1: There are three branches of biotics: - TELEKINESIS uses mass-lowering fields to levitate or impel objects. - Mass-raising KINETIC FIELDS are used to block or pin objects - DISTORTION uses rapidly-shifting mass fields to shred objects TELEKINESIS: Throw, Lift (Pull, Lash?), Biotic Charge, Shockwave, Slam KINETIC FIELDS: Barrier, Stasis DISTORTION: Warp, Reave, Dark Channel 1. Reave should not heal living tissue (ME2), nor should it provide damage protection (ME3), but it does because... gameplay. Reave works more like ME1 Warp's description, minus the healing/damage protection feature. It bugs a lot of people. 2. Biotic Charge would not actually require a target. For gameplay reasons, you need it to lock on to a target. The "target required" is purely for gameplay and you should not stress about it; Biotic Charge is a totally viable biotic ability in the Mass Effect universe. 3. Dark Channel is like Reave in that works like ME1 Warp was described. The "jumping" ability always bothered me too, but you could possibly hand-wave it away by saying that the user is merely moving the field to another target instead of it moving on its own. Not a good explanation (since it should require another cooldown since that should take effort) but whatever. 4. ME2 Shockwave is a little weird, but ME3 Shockwave works like ME1 Throw in a way, with a wall of biotic force. Even ME2 Shockwave is just a series of localized TELEKINESIS points in a row, so it does fit in the lore. 5. Dominate was a biotic power in ME2, but changed to be a completely un-biotic power in ME3. it should never have been a biotic power in ME2. (For the record, I don't know if it actually benefits from the Biotic Cooldown upgrade like it is supposed to, but hardly anyone ever uses it so whatever. ) 6. For some of the weird ME3 biotics, I think Lash and Slam are considered biotic powers but they seem more tech-based because they are more like whip abilities. You can always chalk this up to "put into wrong power category". 7. Biotic orbs are a thing in ME3 multiplayer, and again are purely for gameplay reasons because there is simply no way they are actually a biotic power. 8. Lance (ME3 multiplayer and MEA): Lance was more of a tech-based/combat power because of it was essentially a palm blaster. They made it a biotic power in ME3. But it makes sense as a biotic power, since it is essentially just a quick biotic burst that does damage. Essentially a small DISTORTION field that deals damage all at once instead of over time. |
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Post by Ody-N7S on Dec 12, 2018 4:50:16 GMT
SwobyJ RedCaesar97 Yes I do have hard time explaining some of the talents in Mass Effect universe and this is why I came here for help. Anything that will help me understand how stuff works as if they were real and not just "space magic". This is for a RP project I am working on, and the more opinions, explanations and theories I collect the better I can comprehend them. You two have been very helpful, thank you both for your inputs.
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Post by Upggrade on Dec 13, 2018 11:08:28 GMT
One thing that always bugged me about biotics is that characters are limited in what powers they can use. Obviously they have to be limited for gameplay purposes otherwise Jack and Samara could beat the game before lunch but lore wise any biotic can do any power, even if they aren't good at it. And I know you can sort of do that in MEA but that's a side effect of the idiotic decision to make powers changeable on the fly so it doesn't count.
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Post by burningcherry on Dec 13, 2018 22:09:01 GMT
BioWare stopped caring about consistency on this subject at ME2 but I believe that we could derive a consistent theory about pre-ME2 biotics by adding details to what the Codex says. Otherwise, it's as RedCaesar97 said: things started being turned more and more into Star Wars-tier space magic for gameplay purposes, siphoning weapons of Andromeda being the most recent stage of this process. They made it a biotic power in ME3. You meant ME:A. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 14, 2018 2:48:16 GMT
6. For some of the weird ME3 biotics, I think Lash and Slam are considered biotic powers but they seem more tech-based because they are more like whip abilities. You can always chalk this up to "put into wrong power category". I would consider them something like waves of biotic force. It's kind of a different manifestation of telekinesis. You even suggest it's telekinesis. Levitation/push/pull are all the same. |
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Post by dmc1001 on Dec 14, 2018 2:58:28 GMT
One thing that always bugged me about biotics is that characters are limited in what powers they can use. Obviously they have to be limited for gameplay purposes otherwise Jack and Samara could beat the game before lunch but lore wise any biotic can do any power, even if they aren't good at it. And I know you can sort of do that in MEA but that's a side effect of the idiotic decision to make powers changeable on the fly so it doesn't count. Eh. Asari and Protheans both have abilities that don't exist is other races. Assume that not all biotics are as capable as others. Why should they be? Kaidan was considered exceptional in that he could Reave in ME3. It's not a usual ability for humans. Maybe humanity hasn't sufficiently been exposed to eezo, or had it pass down to children, for the full range to manifest. Jack and Samara are the most powerful. Others are less so. Jack is like a bull. Lots of power but lacking fine control. Lash might be a more refined version of telekinesis. We've certainly never seen her use it. Not a knock against Jack so much as comment on her personality. She could, without doubt, take on nearly anyone she faces (in cutscenes, at least; in gameplay she's less powerful).
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Post by Upggrade on Dec 14, 2018 11:29:47 GMT
One thing that always bugged me about biotics is that characters are limited in what powers they can use. Obviously they have to be limited for gameplay purposes otherwise Jack and Samara could beat the game before lunch but lore wise any biotic can do any power, even if they aren't good at it. And I know you can sort of do that in MEA but that's a side effect of the idiotic decision to make powers changeable on the fly so it doesn't count. Eh. Asari and Protheans both have abilities that don't exist is other races. Assume that not all biotics are as capable as others. Why should they be? Kaidan was considered exceptional in that he could Reave in ME3. It's not a usual ability for humans. Maybe humanity hasn't sufficiently been exposed to eezo, or had it pass down to children, for the full range to manifest. Jack and Samara are the most powerful. Others are less so. Jack is like a bull. Lots of power but lacking fine control. Lash might be a more refined version of telekinesis. We've certainly never seen her use it. Not a knock against Jack so much as comment on her personality. She could, without doubt, take on nearly anyone she faces (in cutscenes, at least; in gameplay she's less powerful).
Different races should be different, sure. I'm not saying everyone should be equal, but if someone can fire off a shockwave there's no reason lore-wise that they can't also warp. Kaidan being considered exceptional because he can use reave doesn't mean everyone else can't try it, they just can't pull it off. Sort of like how Jerry Miculek is absolutely amazing with a gun, but he's not doing anything others physically can't do, he's just waaaaay better at it than most(any other living person pretty much). Jack may never actually use lash but in the security footage of her rampage in Purgatory (the terminal on the shadow broker ship) she does a bunch of shit she doesn't normally. Pretty sure she pulls like a thirty foot back flip. So biotics can do other things, they're just limited to keep the game balanced. It would be nice to see biotics limited not in what powers they can use, but in skill level. Give Jacob a really short range shockwave, Jack a shitty, weak stasis etc. It would make putting together a squad much more interesting. |
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Post by burningcherry on Dec 14, 2018 19:16:37 GMT
Eh. Asari and Protheans both have abilities that don't exist is other races. Assume that not all biotics are as capable as others. Why should they be? Kaidan was considered exceptional in that he could Reave in ME3. It's not a usual ability for humans. Maybe humanity hasn't sufficiently been exposed to eezo, or had it pass down to children, for the full range to manifest. Jack and Samara are the most powerful. Others are less so. Jack is like a bull. Lots of power but lacking fine control. Lash might be a more refined version of telekinesis. We've certainly never seen her use it. Not a knock against Jack so much as comment on her personality. She could, without doubt, take on nearly anyone she faces (in cutscenes, at least; in gameplay she's less powerful).
Different races should be different, sure. I'm not saying everyone should be equal, but if someone can fire off a shockwave there's no reason lore-wise that they can't also warp. Kaidan being considered exceptional because he can use reave doesn't mean everyone else can't try it, they just can't pull it off. Sort of like how Jerry Miculek is absolutely amazing with a gun, but he's not doing anything others physically can't do, he's just waaaaay better at it than most(any other living person pretty much). Jack may never actually use lash but in the security footage of her rampage in Purgatory (the terminal on the shadow broker ship) she does a bunch of shit she doesn't normally. Pretty sure she pulls like a thirty foot back flip. So biotics can do other things, they're just limited to keep the game balanced. It would be nice to see biotics limited not in what powers they can use, but in skill level. Give Jacob a really short range shockwave, Jack a shitty, weak stasis etc. It would make putting together a squad much more interesting. Agreed. If we still want to try the pre-ME2 "scientific" approach then the outcome of a biotic ability should depend only on how currents are aligned in nerves and energy accumulated in implants and there should be no obvious reasons why different races couldn't do same things, maybe just the preferable ways to do them and some details would be different (krogans charge slower than asari but with more force etc.). Some biotic skills are more difficult than others or require separate training not everyone is interested in and maybe thus the differences. |
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Post by sageoflife on Dec 14, 2018 22:39:53 GMT
Here's what I've been able to figure out. As said, there are three types of mass effect fields.
Reave is essentially a more precise version of Warp that targets the victim's nervous system or closest equivalent. The health restoration I think is just Gameplay and Story Segregation, but the damage resistance makes more sense to me; biotics are sensitive to mass effect fields, so when Reave is used on an organic enemy the user uses the mass effect field to read the electrical impulses in the victim's nervous system, and uses that to reinforce their own barrier. This means Reave is actually combining a Distortion field with a Kinetic field.
Dominate I don't think fits into any power category, but the only character who canonically uses it is a pure biotic, so it was put there for convenience. It appears to be an Ardat-Yakshi/Leviathan thing, and Shepard's ability to learn it is another case of Gameplay and Story Segregation.
Biotic Charge works on the same principle as the Mass Relays. It only requires a target because of the shenanigans players would be able to get up to otherwise. That's why Tela Vasir can use it more freely.
Dark Channel is another variant of the basic Warp. I think its long cooldown is because the user is focusing on the ability to make it jump to other targets when the current one is dead.
Shockwave is a Telekinetic field similar to Throw, it's just released in controlled bursts. Lash and Smash are also Telekinetic, just in controlled ways. The whip may be designed some way to make Biotics easier or stronger, but it's not necessary, as seen with Aria.
Lance I think is a Distortion field focused into the user's hand, then launched at high speed, sacrificing control for velocity. One of its upgrades I think can be considered as training to wrap it in a Telekinetic field for knockdown.
As for why not everyone can use every power, some seem more energy-intensive than others or are more complex. Singularity for example seems like it's very difficult to properly learn due to its raw power, while Reave would be difficult because of how precise it is and the fact that it makes use of two different types of fields. It takes time to learn the physical mnemonics, especially for the more advanced powers. Some of it can also be chalked up to incentive. Jack probably has the potential to learn to Reave, but she has no interest in doing so because she's more inclined to use her biotics like a battering ram. Compare to Kaidan and Samara, who are much more patient individuals that would be more inclined to see the benefits of a power that is both offensive and defensive.
In general, I think that the squad power lists from the second game onward are not their full list of powers, just the ones that they have chosen to develop to more advanced levels.
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