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Post by midnight tea on Nov 28, 2024 15:44:03 GMT
In danger of assuming too much about your intentions, but for the sake of diplomacy maybe:
I think I agree with the notion that BioWare or any developer, is a bit like Theseus ship - i.e. how many parts of something can you change until it is no longer the same thing ?
There is a definitively different vibe to current BioWare games, than to those of other seasons of staff. And sometimes, what made a game different than those of other devs is just no longer there. Not every team constellation produces the same output, and even if all people involved most certainly are talented professionals, you may never get "optimal" (if that is your opinion) results with constellation X for franchise Y ever again. Evil publisher influence aside; because it doesn't click the same way. Assassin's Creed is a probably the strongest example of this. Ubisoft does this with the gagillion studios they own all the time, it's a major part of their particular operational model, afaik. Same goes for Blizzard - except in my opinion they are way more calculating in their attempts to sell their legendary name with not-so-universally-legendary-anymore output.
This is interesting discussion and I also thought of Theseus ship while writing it. But even more than that, like I said, one of my biggest impression from playing The Veilguard is that the people who made it, some of them are Dragon Age guys who worked on the franchise for years, are simply no longer interested. I have tons of criticism of FFVII remake, and this game is made by pretty much the same people who made the original. But I did feel like they should have used their time and resources making a new game and not that remake, that felt bloated and even a bit spiteful at times. What I really wanted to say is that if what they made is so different and disconnected from what I perceive a Dragon Age game to be, why even make it, other than corporate greed? Why not making a new IP that you are passionate about and is more fitting for the story you wish to tell? Ideally of course. That underlined part. That is the important part. It's fine to feel disappointed that you're no longer vibing with something. But to say that the game is bad, because it doesn't mesh with "what you perceive a Dragon Age game to be" - that the devs dont' care, that what they do is destroy their world, that it exists only to feed corporate greed, etc. etc... dude, just move on then, and stop implying that because the thing stopped satisfying YOU it means that it's objectively bad. I've moved on from a lot of stuff I really liked before because I don't want to waste a time I could spend on enjoying things on hating/mourning what the old thing no longer gives me. And I don't necessarily begrudge the thing I liked before and don't like anymore (whether the thing has changed or I have changed) - like, it's fine to harp sometimes at something for a moment; but to go to such lengths as to discredit something and throw the worst possible accusations at it, insulting not only those who made it, but those who ended up enjoing it as well... that is NOT healthy.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 28, 2024 15:56:01 GMT
This is interesting discussion and I also thought of Theseus ship while writing it. But even more than that, like I said, one of my biggest impression from playing The Veilguard is that the people who made it, some of them are Dragon Age guys who worked on the franchise for years, are simply no longer interested. I have tons of criticism of FFVII remake, and this game is made by pretty much the same people who made the original. But I did feel like they should have used their time and resources making a new game and not that remake, that felt bloated and even a bit spiteful at times. What I really wanted to say is that if what they made is so different and disconnected from what I perceive a Dragon Age game to be, why even make it, other than corporate greed? Why not making a new IP that you are passionate about and is more fitting for the story you wish to tell? Ideally of course. That underlined part. That is the important part. It's fine to feel disappointed that you're no longer vibing with something. But to say that the game is bad, because it doesn't mesh with "what you perceive a Dragon Age game to be" - that the devs dont' care, that what they do is destroy their world, that it exists only to feed corporate greed, etc. etc... dude, just move on then, and stop implying that because the thing stopped satisfying YOU it means that it's objectively bad. I've moved on from a lot of stuff I really liked before because I don't want to waste a time I could spend on enjoying things on hating/mourning what the old thing no longer gives me. And I don't necessarily begrudge the thing I liked before and don't like anymore (whether the thing has changed or I have changed) - like, it's fine to harp sometimes at something for a moment; but to go to such lengths as to discredit something and throw the worst possible accusations at it, insulting not only those who made it, but those who ended up enjoing it as well... that is NOT healthy. To be honest, while I have no issue with discussing the game, what I like and dislike, I'm really starting to lose my patience for this attitude (it's kinda hard to define, but it's like weird toxic positive gatekeeping?) whatever it is that drives people into thinking the fact they liked the game entitle them to dictate who is and isn't allowed to engage in discussions here. I'm here because even though I dislike this game immensely, and I have very good reasons for it, I find the discussion around it to be interesting (even more interesting and worthwhile than the game itself), in addition to really liking the adjacent discussions it spurns about the industry, other, similar games, etc. If you're not interested in engaging with me, just don't engage. I promise you that if I lose interest I'll go away. And btw- all the nonsense you wrote about me in the end of your comment has absolutely nothing with anything I wrote, only your impression of me based on who knows what.. disagreeing with you?
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Post by midnight tea on Nov 28, 2024 16:13:55 GMT
That underlined part. That is the important part. It's fine to feel disappointed that you're no longer vibing with something. But to say that the game is bad, because it doesn't mesh with "what you perceive a Dragon Age game to be" - that the devs dont' care, that what they do is destroy their world, that it exists only to feed corporate greed, etc. etc... dude, just move on then, and stop implying that because the thing stopped satisfying YOU it means that it's objectively bad. I've moved on from a lot of stuff I really liked before because I don't want to waste a time I could spend on enjoying things on hating/mourning what the old thing no longer gives me. And I don't necessarily begrudge the thing I liked before and don't like anymore (whether the thing has changed or I have changed) - like, it's fine to harp sometimes at something for a moment; but to go to such lengths as to discredit something and throw the worst possible accusations at it, insulting not only those who made it, but those who ended up enjoing it as well... that is NOT healthy. To be honest, while I have no issue with discussing the game, what I like and dislike, I'm really starting to lose my patience for this attitude (it's kinda hard to define, but it's like weird toxic positive gatekeeping?) whatever it is that drives people into thinking the fact they liked the game entitle them to dictate who is and isn't allowed to engage in discussions here. How tired do you think people are of being dismissed with accusations of toxic positivity the moment they disagree with someone using a very hyperbolic negative language? Also - who is gatekeeping here? A person who said "listen if you're not vibing with something maybe it's time to move on, because dismissing something in the worst possible terms and stewing in it is not healthy for anyone" or a person who implies that because they are personally not satisfied with where the franchise is going, it means it's basically no longer a true Dragon Age experience and even the devs (many of whom have been there for decades and were involved with making of previous DA) must not longer care for that story. You're even gatekeeping those who made or work within that universe. What am I doing other than discussing here? My issue here is using this really hyperbolic and dismissive language that isn't really conducive to a reasonable discussion.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 28, 2024 16:47:29 GMT
To be honest, while I have no issue with discussing the game, what I like and dislike, I'm really starting to lose my patience for this attitude (it's kinda hard to define, but it's like weird toxic positive gatekeeping?) whatever it is that drives people into thinking the fact they liked the game entitle them to dictate who is and isn't allowed to engage in discussions here. How tired do you think people are of being dismissed with accusations of toxic positivity the moment they disagree with someone using a very hyperbolic negative language? Also - who is gatekeeping here? A person who said "listen if you're not vibing with something maybe it's time to move on, because dismissing something in the worst possible terms and stewing in it is not healthy for anyone" or a person who implies that because they are personally not satisfied with where the franchise is going, it means it's basically no longer a true Dragon Age experience and even the devs (many of whom have been there for decades and were involved with making of previous DA) must not longer care for that story. You're even gatekeeping those who made or work within that universe. What am I doing other than discussing here? My issue here is using this really hyperbolic and dismissive language that isn't really conducive to a reasonable discussion. The fact you hide your lousy attitude behind nice words doesn't make it less ugly (not that saying 'dude, just move on then, and stop implying that because the thing stopped satisfying YOU it means that it's objectively bad." Is a very nice way to say things). Come now we are not in kindergarten. Call it whatever you want. I spoke of my opinion, I don't see why should I give an introduction every time I say the game is bad. Of course it's my opinion, I don't understand why would you assume I think it is some sort of a fact other than if, of course, you only assume the worst of me even though you have no idea who I am and what I really think. And it's not like you're interested, you're just decided that instead of engaging with what I say you grace me with your lame psyche 101 "maybe you should just move on I'm actually saying it for you" or whatever crap you tell yourself. And all that because I said something you disagree with. By the way, nothing I said was hyperbolic or dismissive. And if you think it was, why not discussing that instead of (fake) gently asking me to go away?
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Post by colfoley on Nov 28, 2024 17:01:59 GMT
How tired do you think people are of being dismissed with accusations of toxic positivity the moment they disagree with someone using a very hyperbolic negative language? Also - who is gatekeeping here? A person who said "listen if you're not vibing with something maybe it's time to move on, because dismissing something in the worst possible terms and stewing in it is not healthy for anyone" or a person who implies that because they are personally not satisfied with where the franchise is going, it means it's basically no longer a true Dragon Age experience and even the devs (many of whom have been there for decades and were involved with making of previous DA) must not longer care for that story. You're even gatekeeping those who made or work within that universe. What am I doing other than discussing here? My issue here is using this really hyperbolic and dismissive language that isn't really conducive to a reasonable discussion. The fact you hide your lousy attitude behind nice words doesn't make it less ugly (not that saying 'dude, just move on then, and stop implying that because the thing stopped satisfying YOU it means that it's objectively bad." Is a very nice way to say things). Come now we are not in kindergarten. Call it whatever you want. I spoke of my opinion, I don't see why should I give an introduction every time I say the game is bad. Of course it's my opinion, I don't understand why would you assume I think it is some sort of a fact other than if, of course, you only assume the worst of me even though you have no idea who I am and what I really think. And it's not like you're interested, you're just decided that instead of engaging with what I say you grace me with your lame psyche 101 "maybe you should just move on I'm actually saying it for you" or whatever crap you tell yourself. And all that because I said something you disagree with. By the way, nothing I said was hyperbolic or dismissive. And if you think it was, why not discussing that instead of (fake) gently asking me to go away? in the DA fan thread I have been accused of Insulting peoples intelligence. Trolling And phantom menacing... Over liking the game. And I've seen a lot of people who dislike the game try and pass their opinion off as some objective truth. It's not toxic to point out how illogical this all is. Oh then the ironic part is some of these same posters wonder where everyone who likes the game is.
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Post by andorvex on Nov 28, 2024 17:25:39 GMT
The fact you hide your lousy attitude behind nice words doesn't make it less ugly (not that saying 'dude, just move on then, and stop implying that because the thing stopped satisfying YOU it means that it's objectively bad." Is a very nice way to say things). Come now we are not in kindergarten. Call it whatever you want. I spoke of my opinion, I don't see why should I give an introduction every time I say the game is bad. Of course it's my opinion, I don't understand why would you assume I think it is some sort of a fact other than if, of course, you only assume the worst of me even though you have no idea who I am and what I really think. And it's not like you're interested, you're just decided that instead of engaging with what I say you grace me with your lame psyche 101 "maybe you should just move on I'm actually saying it for you" or whatever crap you tell yourself. And all that because I said something you disagree with. By the way, nothing I said was hyperbolic or dismissive. And if you think it was, why not discussing that instead of (fake) gently asking me to go away? in the DA fan thread I have been accused of Insulting peoples intelligence. Trolling And phantom menacing... Over liking the game. And I've seen a lot of people who dislike the game try and pass their opinion off as some objective truth. It's not toxic to point out how illogical this all is. Oh then the ironic part is some of these same posters wonder where everyone who likes the game is. Alright so because I've been called a bigot an anti woke grifter and a racist transphobe I should take it out on colfoley? Again, I think making a distinction between arguments and people can do a lot of folks some good. I try very hard not to speak of the person, only the argument. All I ask is for people to do the same. And please, the word "bad" is not some objective truth. An opinion is implied.
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Post by TabithaTH on Nov 28, 2024 17:25:55 GMT
David Gaider @davidgaider.bsky.social CHARACTERS - Day Nine: Cassandra It did lead to the best end credits VO perhaps ever, and overall I'm pretty happy with how Cassandra panned out. Things never end up like you expect, right? But such is game dev lyfe. Agree, best end credit VO ever. She's So good with the impressions.
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Post by colfoley on Nov 28, 2024 17:28:27 GMT
in the DA fan thread I have been accused of Insulting peoples intelligence. Trolling And phantom menacing... Over liking the game. And I've seen a lot of people who dislike the game try and pass their opinion off as some objective truth. It's not toxic to point out how illogical this all is. Oh then the ironic part is some of these same posters wonder where everyone who likes the game is. Alright so because I've been called a bigot an anti woke grifter and a racist transphobe I should take it out on colfoley? Again, I think making a distinction between arguments and people can do a lot of folks some good. I try very hard not to speak of the person, only the argument. All I ask is for people to do the same. And please, the word "bad" is not some objective truth. An opinion is implied. that you have been called that is unfortunate. And I make that distinction all the time. This isn't about you personally but the weakness of your overall arguments.
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