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Post by eaglepursuit on Mar 22, 2024 13:00:43 GMT
Patrick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.socialHigh-level corporate behavior makes more sense when you understand that a high-level exec often does not care about ensuring future success. They care about what makes their numbers good this quarter. Few execs plant seeds that will take 5 years to grow. They'll be gone by then. This is the main reason I'm not convinced about Connie joining. If she really is there to make things better for the long run, we won't see the results for a very long time. People might be expecting her presence in Bioware to immediately start to show changes but very likely that will not be the case. Dreadwolf is most certainly not going to be affected by her presence there, there most likely is already a strategy put into place for its marketing and I would expect at this point its development is almost over. She's going to need time to first find all the problems, identify the causes, come up with a plan to resolve them, then start putting that plan into action and dealing with the extra nits that come out as a result of working towards a resolution. If things are very bad in Bioware, it might take years to get improvements to show and stick. Is she going to be at Bioware for years? Guess only time will tell. In all likelihood, EA corporate already think they know what the problem is (they don't), already think they know what the solution is (it will make things worse), have reorganized in a way to facilitate that objective, and Connie is there to follow orders, not lead.
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Post by QuizzyBunny on Mar 22, 2024 15:36:54 GMT
Maybe I risk being controversial here but... should we always assume that Bioware is the victim of EA? I think there's probably competent and less competent people on both sides, the difference is perhaps the viewpoint from which they act. We do know that even when Bioware was doing well enough, they struggled financially enough that they had to sell the company to EA to survive. I think the "EA bad" narrative is too simplistic, and that we like to put blame on them because it's a David vs Goliath kinda thing. For sure, they definitely make some wtf decisions (like trying to make DA a multiplayer) but I don't see them as the devil rubbing their hands gleefully trying to maje the studio fail. It's in their interest that Bioware is successful after all.
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Post by eaglepursuit on Mar 22, 2024 15:58:33 GMT
I think Bioware is more than capable of their own mistakes, but I will never perceive EA as a benevolent and helpful influence.
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Post by biggydx on Mar 22, 2024 16:33:11 GMT
Maybe I risk being controversial here but... should we always assume that Bioware is the victim of EA? I think there's probably competent and less competent people on both sides, the difference is perhaps the viewpoint from which they act. We do know that even when Bioware was doing well enough, they struggled financially enough that they had to sell the company to EA to survive. I think the "EA bad" narrative is too simplistic, and that we like to put blame on them because it's a David vs Goliath kinda thing. For sure, they definitely make some wtf decisions (like trying to make DA a multiplayer) but I don't see them as the devil rubbing their hands gleefully trying to maje the studio fail. It's in their interest that Bioware is successful after all. In more recent years, I would say, "Yes." That said, I do think EA has planted seeds that have made development for BioWare much more difficulty. In many respects, issues related to each of their releases had EA invested on some level: Mass Effect 2: EA likely pressured BioWare to include Day 1 MTXs and an online store component. Dragon Age 2: We know that EA gave BioWare a very short development period to make the game (less than 1 year). Mass Effect 3: Online functionality was a big push for EA across all their games (including others, like Dead Space 3). Luckily for BioWare, the multiplayer succeeded. However, the studio only being given a year and half to develop the game probably didn't help the story. Dragon Age Inquisition: Again, must have online emphasis (i.e. multiplayer). They also pushed BioWare (and many other studios) into using the Frostbite engine. Mass Effect Andromeda: BioWare didn't actually want to make this game, but EA insisted. And so, they brought up the studio size for BioWare Montreal to ensure a new Mass Effect was made. You also have Frostbite woes still being a problem. I'd say this is the point where EA is less to blame for the overall product, and it's mostly on BioWare at this point. Anthem: This one is mainly BioWare. The only thing I would ding EA on is still imposing Frostbite as the engine.
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Post by cuthbertbeckett on Mar 22, 2024 18:12:20 GMT
And EA has just recently reinforced how much they want to focus on their own properties and not spend much on licenses. Star Wars is likely always going to be an exception because Star Wars money is always worth the license. Even if Dreadwolf is going to be the last DA game Bioware makes, they're more likely to replace it with something else new than a licensed game. I wouldn´t rule out that EA could be interested in a Baldur´s Gate 4. Sure its a licenced game but i don´t believe that this EA statement included all licences. I think the comment has more to do with Disney licence deals and that they are becoming too expensive. But Hasbro isn´t Disney.
And for Bioware a lot of time has passed. If they have go from EA aka the Budget to make a Baldur´s Gate or new Kotor they would almost bet that they would take this opportunity. I'd prefer if Bioware just focus on DA and ME at this point, if any of their other IPs should be resurrected I'd think I'd prefer to see Jade Empire get another go. A Jade Empire 2 won´t happen and to be honest its fine as one game only. Also i don´t like their radical scrapped idea of 2. So its maybe for the best. Edit: But i am gonna lie a true sequel could be interesting on paper.
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Post by themikefest on Mar 22, 2024 19:38:31 GMT
Mass Effect 3: Online functionality was a big push for EA across all their games (including others, like Dead Space 3). Luckily for BioWare, the multiplayer succeeded. However, the studio only being given a year and half to develop the game probably didn't help the story. For the amount of content in the game, I give Bioware a thumb's up. Had Bioware been given more time , some stuff that was cut/changed from ME3, would have been in the game.
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Post by SwobyJ on Mar 22, 2024 22:10:41 GMT
I'd be into a Jade Empire sequel-reimaging that only vaguely recognizes the exact events of Jade Empire (but uses it as backdrop and some references). Smooth over the more egregious seeming cultural elements and go with a soft reboot.
But this won't happen. At least not until Bioware becomes more successful again, and can expand into going fully developing two major games at once (at different stages).
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 22, 2024 22:45:39 GMT
License costs aside, A BG4 game runs against BG3's very high bar ( received the GOTY award and sold over 10m copies ).. I doubt that any game studio will do a "sequel like" game. A cut down version of BG3 is more likely. That approach precludes the need for a 1yr+ early access approach, something that corp management may not want to tackle. Staying true to BG3 requires a significant number of staff resources. ... which no EA studio has and given the corpo "restructuring' to be more efficient, I'd say BG4+EA is a no-go from the start
Connie Booth at EA is expected ( I believe ) to copy her success with the PS console exclusives of single player RPGs with EA's IPs. From a corpo perspective that is all goodness, not so much from a PC game player's view. Sony's hardware brand is a console, after all.
Regardless, I hope she can be a positive effect with our favourite game studio. ME5, though, may become an exclusive.
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Post by Spectr61 on Mar 23, 2024 4:17:03 GMT
Naw, outside of a console manufacturer (PlayStation for example), max exposure, so all venues.
If any exclusive, my bet would be on some mobile platform.
And, does anyone know the reasons, or supposed reasons, for the "unexpected departure" of Booth from PlayStation?
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 23, 2024 6:54:04 GMT
Patrick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.social Had to cut two different lines I liked from something at work a while back -- lines that were good but not right for what the scenes needed to do anymore.
But this week, found new places for them. Very different bits, but they will live on as things some players see, and that makes me really happy.
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Post by Grog Muffins on Mar 23, 2024 8:54:42 GMT
I wouldn´t rule out that EA could be interested in a Baldur´s Gate 4. Sure its a licenced game but i don´t believe that this EA statement included all licences. I think the comment has more to do with Disney licence deals and that they are becoming too expensive. But Hasbro isn´t Disney. And for Bioware a lot of time has passed. If they have go from EA aka the Budget to make a Baldur´s Gate or new Kotor they would almost bet that they would take this opportunity. Hasbro may not be Disney but that doesn't mean they're any better. Remember the BS Wizards tried pulling last year (?) with the open license? EA is the type of entity who doesn't like that. Besides license costs to actually make a licensed game, there also comes the issue of profits. EA is going to have to pay Wizards and Hasbro a significant portion of profits. No company would like that and we have history of EA being leery of not making all the money and having to share profits. A company like Larian was ok with this arrangement likely because of 2 reasons: they were super passionate for years about making BG3 and they also benefited massively from the exposure (outside of people who already knew them and liked their older games, a massive host of people who had never known about them suddenly got to play one of their games and, as it seems, loved it and are now devoted fans who want to see more of what they do). As much as Bioware's downfall is bemoaned, they aren't an unknown quantity in the RPG space. The ME:LE is still doing work in getting people who have never played a Bioware game to be introduced to them and from there it's easy to get access to Dragon Age. As for Bioware itself, it's been 20 years since they worked on anything licensed besides Star Wars (SWTOR) and even that they let go a while ago, after a period of Bioware Austin's team getting smaller. They weren't even going to work on the KotoR 1 remake, their own game. They've not shown any desire to do anything new licensed and when they had the chance to make something not DA, ME or SW related they made Anthem. Sorry but it's not really happening. I'd be into a Jade Empire sequel-reimaging that only vaguely recognizes the exact events of Jade Empire (but uses it as backdrop and some references). Smooth over the more egregious seeming cultural elements and go with a soft reboot. But this won't happen. At least not until Bioware becomes more successful again, and can expand into going fully developing two major games at once (at different stages). Jade Empire is an unknown IP at this point. Older Bioware fans might know of it but the larger gaming audience has no idea what it is. It's going to be a risk that will need, in my opinion, 2 things if it has the chance to be considered for revival: 1. as you said, Bioware to become a gaming darling again and show it can develop multiple projects at the same time or, at the very least, not spend 10 years between the games it releases; and 2. a trend that will help the game become desirable to the larger public. While its early access and word of mouth certainly helped, a large part of BG3's success I believe is owed to the massive resurgence of D&D thanks to shows like Critical Role and Dimension 20. A Jade Empire revival might need something similar because it's a way out there property. Then you have the cultural aspects that, in today's world of people finding things to complain about even if they're done well, might just seem like a risk that is not worth it.
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Post by ClarkKent on Mar 23, 2024 10:56:54 GMT
Maybe I risk being controversial here but... should we always assume that Bioware is the victim of EA? I think there's probably competent and less competent people on both sides, the difference is perhaps the viewpoint from which they act. We do know that even when Bioware was doing well enough, they struggled financially enough that they had to sell the company to EA to survive. I think the "EA bad" narrative is too simplistic, and that we like to put blame on them because it's a David vs Goliath kinda thing. For sure, they definitely make some wtf decisions (like trying to make DA a multiplayer) but I don't see them as the devil rubbing their hands gleefully trying to maje the studio fail. It's in their interest that Bioware is successful after all. True. Arguably some of the worst things in Bioware games have been down to Bioware - like the ME3 endings, and setting the next game in Andromeda.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 23, 2024 12:06:36 GMT
Maybe I risk being controversial here but... should we always assume that Bioware is the victim of EA? I think there's probably competent and less competent people on both sides, the difference is perhaps the viewpoint from which they act. We do know that even when Bioware was doing well enough, they struggled financially enough that they had to sell the company to EA to survive. I think the "EA bad" narrative is too simplistic, and that we like to put blame on them because it's a David vs Goliath kinda thing. For sure, they definitely make some wtf decisions (like trying to make DA a multiplayer) but I don't see them as the devil rubbing their hands gleefully trying to maje the studio fail. It's in their interest that Bioware is successful after all. True. Arguably some of the worst things in Bioware games have been down to Bioware - like the ME3 endings, and setting the next game in Andromeda.
Andromeda has a poor premise in placing inexperienced Pathfinders in a leadership position. Add poor dialogue in some areas and you can make the case that the game needed additional fine tuning. Andromeda galaxy as the location is fine with me. The MP portion is fine but a bit too fast for my liking. An optional switch to slow things down would be nice. One can log in to the fast or "slow" arenas, making more people happy with options... yeeeaaah !!!
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 23, 2024 12:58:19 GMT
Maybe I risk being controversial here but... should we always assume that Bioware is the victim of EA? I think there's probably competent and less competent people on both sides, the difference is perhaps the viewpoint from which they act. We do know that even when Bioware was doing well enough, they struggled financially enough that they had to sell the company to EA to survive. I think the "EA bad" narrative is too simplistic, and that we like to put blame on them because it's a David vs Goliath kinda thing. For sure, they definitely make some wtf decisions (like trying to make DA a multiplayer) but I don't see them as the devil rubbing their hands gleefully trying to maje the studio fail. It's in their interest that Bioware is successful after all. "EA gives you just enough rope to hang yourself." ~Greg Zeschuk At least back in that day EA gave their studios a lot of freedom for decision making, so I suspect that BioWare has to own most of their failures. I mean, look at Anthem for example - the only thing being decided by an EA exec there was "flying is cool, go with that". EA probably also didn't make them lose so much time on a failed attempt at procedural content for MEA. Lots of problems are caused by BioWare's own sub-optimal decision making (or lack thereof in Anthem's case).
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 23, 2024 17:00:54 GMT
Shoutout to a couple of eagle-eyed DA Fans who game me a heads-up on a few older Mark Darrah interviews that may (I don't think they've been posted here?) have flown under our radar here. I haven't had a chance to watch all of them yet, but I'm told Dreadwolf is mentioned in places.
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Post by githcheater on Mar 23, 2024 17:42:16 GMT
Maybe I risk being controversial here but... should we always assume that Bioware is the victim of EA? I think there's probably competent and less competent people on both sides, the difference is perhaps the viewpoint from which they act. We do know that even when Bioware was doing well enough, they struggled financially enough that they had to sell the company to EA to survive. I think the "EA bad" narrative is too simplistic, and that we like to put blame on them because it's a David vs Goliath kinda thing. For sure, they definitely make some wtf decisions (like trying to make DA a multiplayer) but I don't see them as the devil rubbing their hands gleefully trying to maje the studio fail. It's in their interest that Bioware is successful after all. "EA gives you just enough rope to hang yourself." ~Greg Zeschuk At least back in that day EA gave their studios a lot of freedom for decision making, so I suspect that BioWare has to own most of their failures. I mean, look at Anthem for example - the only thing being decided by an EA exec there was "flying is cool, go with that". EA probably also didn't make them lose so much time on a failed attempt at procedural content for MEA. Lots of problems are caused by BioWare's own sub-optimal decision making (or lack thereof in Anthem's case). Unfortunately, EA provides the rope and their crappy corporate culture for Bioware and aggravates the problem. Were the crappy ME3 endings partially the result EA insisting that the game be released before the end of the fiscal year in March? Examples of EA rope: Rushed release of DA2, MEA and Anthem EA vetoing previous work on Anthem to insist on flying. Five years of insistence by EA for DA4 "multiplayer" before relenting in 2021. EA insistence of Frostbyte.
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Agent 46
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Post by Gileadan on Mar 23, 2024 20:57:50 GMT
"EA gives you just enough rope to hang yourself." ~Greg Zeschuk At least back in that day EA gave their studios a lot of freedom for decision making, so I suspect that BioWare has to own most of their failures. I mean, look at Anthem for example - the only thing being decided by an EA exec there was "flying is cool, go with that". EA probably also didn't make them lose so much time on a failed attempt at procedural content for MEA. Lots of problems are caused by BioWare's own sub-optimal decision making (or lack thereof in Anthem's case). Unfortunately, EA provides the rope and their crappy corporate culture for Bioware and aggravates the problem. Were the crappy ME3 endings partially the result EA insisting that the game be released before the end of the fiscal year in March? Examples of EA rope: Rushed release of DA2, MEA and Anthem EA vetoing previous work on Anthem to insist on flying. Five years of insistence by EA for DA4 "multiplayer" before relenting in 2021. EA insistence of Frostbyte. MEA and Anthem are almost completely on BioWare. MEA: Years wasted on ultimately scrapped procedural content leading to a super rushed "BioWare magic" release certainly wasn't on EA. They didn't make BioWare go down that road. Anthem: Years of indecision where practically no one knew what kind of game they were actually making was completely on BioWare, especially their management. Not EA's. In both cases, EA paid the studio's salaries for years and got practically nothing in return. In both cases BioWare wasted a ton of development time and then rushed a half baked product over the finish line. There's no telling how much development time went down the drain for the Dragon Age Dredwlof reboots and the current delay. I mean, how many other EA owned studios stumble from failure to failure like this and yet somehow continue to exist?
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Post by Spectr61 on Mar 24, 2024 18:09:09 GMT
Unfortunately, EA provides the rope and their crappy corporate culture for Bioware and aggravates the problem. Were the crappy ME3 endings partially the result EA insisting that the game be released before the end of the fiscal year in March? Examples of EA rope: Rushed release of DA2, MEA and Anthem EA vetoing previous work on Anthem to insist on flying. Five years of insistence by EA for DA4 "multiplayer" before relenting in 2021. EA insistence of Frostbyte. MEA and Anthem are almost completely on BioWare. MEA: Years wasted on ultimately scrapped procedural content leading to a super rushed "BioWare magic" release certainly wasn't on EA. They didn't make BioWare go down that road. Anthem: Years of indecision where practically no one knew what kind of game they were actually making was completely on BioWare, especially their management. Not EA's. In both cases, EA paid the studio's salaries for years and got practically nothing in return. In both cases BioWare wasted a ton of development time and then rushed a half baked product over the finish line. There's no telling how much development time went down the drain for the Dragon Age Dredwlof reboots and the current delay. I mean, how many other EA owned studios stumble from failure to failure like this and yet somehow continue to exist? Exactly. Looks, with "lack of accountability", at Hudson. And Walters. And Gamble. Ditto the other so-called "leaders".
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 24, 2024 19:37:13 GMT
BioWare @biowareFor #NationalCocktailDay we invite you to try a unique drink that is sure to fire up your taste buds: the Hissing Drake. Thanks to our friends at @insighteditions for sharing this recipe from the #DragonAge Cookbook. 📖 Remember to drink responsibly! 🍹😉
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Post by Hrungr on Mar 25, 2024 0:10:09 GMT
Patrick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.social Weekend work is never fun, but getting to write a comment to the voice actor that just says, "Read him for filth," goes a long way to make up for it.
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githcheater
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by githcheater on Mar 25, 2024 0:43:09 GMT
Patrick Weekes @trickweekes.bsky.socialWeekend work is never fun, but getting to write a comment to the voice actor that just says, "Read him for filth," goes a long way to make up for it. Captain Patrick Weekes Crunch ... perhaps Hope the game is released in November so there is not a full year of crunch with a March 2025 release
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fairdragon
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Games: Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate
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Post by fairdragon on Mar 25, 2024 7:55:36 GMT
Maybe I risk being controversial here but... should we always assume that Bioware is the victim of EA? I think there's probably competent and less competent people on both sides, the difference is perhaps the viewpoint from which they act. We do know that even when Bioware was doing well enough, they struggled financially enough that they had to sell the company to EA to survive. I think the "EA bad" narrative is too simplistic, and that we like to put blame on them because it's a David vs Goliath kinda thing. For sure, they definitely make some wtf decisions (like trying to make DA a multiplayer) but I don't see them as the devil rubbing their hands gleefully trying to maje the studio fail. It's in their interest that Bioware is successful after all. I see where you come from. But if you watch the video from Mark Darrah on DA2 making you see that EA have done a big mistake there.
Yes, Bioware has not been managed well in terms of management and profits. But EA don't try to understand the customers and only push for what works for their games in the past. Or do you want to tell us the game the fandom want can't make profit for a company?
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Post by colfoley on Mar 25, 2024 10:15:40 GMT
Yeah this whole conversation does dovetail rather nicely with other things I have been seeing lately. Larian has already revealed that they will not be working on DLC or a future BG game... I think its even been mentioned around here. From some of the commentary I have read and the reactions I have seen it hasn't been met with the best reception, a lot of anger even. And on top of that to other things have also been going on. Sure Sven also says that their dream RPG needs the PS6 to function or something so we'll see but this does suggest that the next Larian game might be something a bit smaller scale, and given the reaction and typical reaction of such things I do fear and sympathies that Larian is gonna set themselves up for failure.
Because its a well repeated story. Both within the game industry and even throughout entertainment in general. Fans have very narrow expectations and when those aren't met...when game comparnies constantly aren't going 'bigger and better' then gamers tend to turn on them. Or just deliver a product which is somehow sub optimal. Seen it with BioWare, CDPR, and Bethesda...at least. Though in CDPRs case maybe they have managed to salvage their reputation.
Which is to say that Andromeda was a fine game. Perfectly playable with a great cast and a great story. But because it didn't ratchet up the stakes from the trilogy people didn't like it.
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https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 25, 2024 11:39:14 GMT
Yes, Larian decided to leave BG3 and work on another project. It seems that Sven and his team are all on board. I wish them luck. Who then will grab the bull by the horn and work on BG4?
EA said that priority #1 is working on their own IP? Other capable game studios already have their new game development mapped out. A BG4 may come along in 10 years and even then, a D&D game may not be of interest to the gaming community because some new type of entertainment is available. I'm talking about AI game environments, cloud based.
If Connie Booth + team (she took her team with her, I hear) has her way she'll fall back on what made her a success as Sony... = exciusive IPs and I really doubt it will be a PC exclusive. As to a potential management shakeup at No-News_Bio, I still think Connie needs to take a broom.
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Grog Muffins
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Grog Muffins on Mar 25, 2024 12:16:28 GMT
Yeah this whole conversation does dovetail rather nicely with other things I have been seeing lately. Larian has already revealed that they will not be working on DLC or a future BG game... I think its even been mentioned around here. From some of the commentary I have read and the reactions I have seen it hasn't been met with the best reception, a lot of anger even. And on top of that to other things have also been going on. Sure Sven also says that their dream RPG needs the PS6 to function or something so we'll see but this does suggest that the next Larian game might be something a bit smaller scale, and given the reaction and typical reaction of such things I do fear and sympathies that Larian is gonna set themselves up for failure. Because its a well repeated story. Both within the game industry and even throughout entertainment in general. Fans have very narrow expectations and when those aren't met...when game comparnies constantly aren't going 'bigger and better' then gamers tend to turn on them. Or just deliver a product which is somehow sub optimal. Seen it with BioWare, CDPR, and Bethesda...at least. Though in CDPRs case maybe they have managed to salvage their reputation. Which is to say that Andromeda was a fine game. Perfectly playable with a great cast and a great story. But because it didn't ratchet up the stakes from the trilogy people didn't like it. I think you're conflating some things that don't really have much or any connection to one another and maybe being a bit alarmist. Larian will be fine unless they actually flub whatever they release next in a major way. People will moan and gnash their teeth because their monkey brain brainwashed into thinking that DLC means good has taken over. They'll stop in a few weeks and go away and when Larian announces then releases their new thing, everything will be sunshine and rainbows again (if they'll put out a good product). The knee jerk reaction of expecting DLC is probably something industry execs are creaming themselves over as having normalized in people's minds. As for fanbases turning on developers, with CDPR's Cyberpunk 2077 (if that's what you're referring to), people didn't turn on them because the game didn't go hard or big enough, they did it because the game was riddled with bugs and unplayable after years of overpromises and reported massive crunch for the developers. People turned on Bethesta for Fallout 76 because it was an empty time sync with barely anything to do at launch. The only game in your list I agree got a worse reception than it deserved is MEA. However, it did get its reception as a result of the same trend the previous games did - overpromises they couldn't deliver on. And as we can see from both non-Bioware games mentioned here, work on improving them has changed the public's perception. CP2077 is (reportedly, because I haven't played it myself) great now and so is FO76. There's also examples of disastrous launches for live services that were righted by putting in the work to make them actually good games that people want to play with Final Fantasy XIV, Destiny 2, and the new state of World of Warcraft. MEA could have been a CP2077 if it got more than 6 months post-launch support and Anthem could have been a Destiny 2. The desire to blame the fanbase for something you like not being successful is strong sometimes but remember to look at the actual reality and understand where the similarities and differences in your examples are found, though, instead of going for confirmation bias.
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