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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 17, 2018 1:08:57 GMT
( loved the game as a whole) but there was always an element, even now, of fighting the control scheme as well as the enemies on the screen. Yes. I loved the story, considered changing to wood difficulty multiple times just to get back to the dialog. So many river spiders, JFC where is my can of Raid?
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Post by anarchy65 on Dec 17, 2018 1:13:39 GMT
Maybe in their next RPG title Bioware should consider actually making a turn-based RPG. And not "based on turn-based" like KOTOR or DA:O, but really turn-based like Divinity: Original Sin, but in third person and updated graphics. I would like it, I think.
They are great in making tactics, when they want to do it. Problem is action sells more.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 17, 2018 1:13:41 GMT
( loved the game as a whole) but there was always an element, even now, of fighting the control scheme as well as the enemies on the screen. Yes. I loved the story, considered changing to wood difficulty multiple times just to get back to the dialog. So many river spiders, JFC where is my can of Raid? Spiders in DA in general can gtfo.
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Post by Hrungr on Dec 17, 2018 1:31:43 GMT
( loved the game as a whole) but there was always an element, even now, of fighting the control scheme as well as the enemies on the screen. Yes. I loved the story, considered changing to wood difficulty multiple times just to get back to the dialog. So many river spiders, JFC where is my can of Raid? There's this evil part of Hrungr that wishes BioWare would just once go all-in on spiders. And by all-in, I mean full-on nightmare fuel. Blunder into a dark cavern where they are everywhere. Trap-door spiders pop up to snatch you while a horde slowing descends on you from the ceiling. Spindly legs, barely visible in the darkness, slowly circles around you along the walls, and spiderlings crunch under every footstep...
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Post by vertigomez on Dec 17, 2018 2:08:34 GMT
I liked combat for the most part - warriors were actually dynamic for once! With combat rolls and yanking enemies towards you and then kicking them in the gut! I loved it! - but I wish it had a little more oomph. I don't know how to describe it. I didn't "feel" a lot of my attacks, there was a lack of visceral something there, especially as a mage.
But that's just imo.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 17, 2018 2:10:25 GMT
-Insta-kill for enemies that get knocked over (ala Witcher 3). The last thing BioWare should do is listen to people who think Witcher 3 is anything to take inspiration from. Calm down, would you? It was just one example of one game among many that employ this particular mechanic. I don't enjoy all aspects of The Witcher, and I wouldn't ask BioWare to turn Dragon Age into The Witcher.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 17, 2018 2:26:37 GMT
Yes. I loved the story, considered changing to wood difficulty multiple times just to get back to the dialog. So many river spiders, JFC where is my can of Raid? There's this evil part of Hrungr that wishes BioWare would just once go all-in on spiders. And by all-in, I mean full-on nightmare fuel. Blunder into a dark cavern where they are everywhere. Trap-door spiders pop up to snatch you while a horde slowing descends on you from the ceiling. Spindly legs, barely visible in the darkness, slowly circles around you along the walls, and spiderlings crunch under every footstep... I am fine with this, if the difficulty befits them. Spiders should not scale to my level. They are spiders. If they are big, make them hard; regular spiders should be relatively easy to kill, like a Mass Effect Husk. One whomp from an Iron Bull hammer should kill any one spider. That is part of the problem - nothing feels particularly powerful on offense.
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Post by colfoley on Dec 17, 2018 2:31:49 GMT
Meh I think I might agree with you but then DA I had some great archery so I never did melee. Even then its an easy fix.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 17, 2018 2:33:08 GMT
Another suggestion: make spell effects a bit more creative. Example: instead of frost runes basically just being a trap that explodes, I would love to cover the floor with ice and watch my enemies slip and fall over each other.
Ditto for rogue traps. Everything just explodes. Why not a tripwire or oil slick (which I could then ignite?!)
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 17, 2018 2:38:03 GMT
Another suggestion: make spell effects a bit more creative. Example: instead of frost runes basically just being a trap that explodes, I would love to cover the floor with ice and watch my enemies slip and fall over each other. Ditto for rogue traps. Everything just explodes. Why not a tripwire or oil slick (which I could then ignite?!) Sounds good to me.
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 17, 2018 2:42:09 GMT
Another suggestion: make spell effects a bit more creative. Example: instead of frost runes basically just being a trap that explodes, I would love to cover the floor with ice and watch my enemies slip and fall over each other. Ditto for rogue traps. Everything just explodes. Why not a tripwire or oil slick (which I could then ignite?!) To be fair, the rune gameplay has been there since DAO, right? However, I agree. ME3MP Annihilation Field acted like a dark space magic It seemed almost like something virulent yet "organic". I don't want a carbon copy of that power, but I would like them to do something that behaves like that again; the MEA version was pretty underwhelming. As for the better traps, and being able to interact with them - I love combos, give me more please
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2018 2:44:41 GMT
I'm not usually one to rain bad on Dragon Age but I was watching my hubby play yesterday from Tactical Cam. I'd always given up on the Tactical Cam because I prefferred the control of my companions via IF/OR AI control and never through a cam so I wasn't going to suddenly use one in DAI. So I always played as myself and let the companions do whatever the heck they wanted, which yes, seems to involve all the Range Fighters for some reason thinking they should shoot at point blank range.
But the tactical cam made all of that even worse. I watched as he told Dorian AND Sera to Attack a mage that he was focusing on as the bad guy tank had wandered off confused. He told them once--- only for them to attack the Tank WAAAAY over there. HE told them Twice-- pew pew where the fuk, we JUST... he did it a third time. It happened again, and GREAT, now the confused Tank has figured out where the party is since we kept shooting him from afar
I mean, what is the point of the orders if they're not even going to follow them.
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 17, 2018 2:46:26 GMT
Another suggestion: make spell effects a bit more creative. Example: instead of frost runes basically just being a trap that explodes, I would love to cover the floor with ice and watch my enemies slip and fall over each other. Ditto for rogue traps. Everything just explodes. Why not a tripwire or oil slick (which I could then ignite?!) To be fair, the rune gameplay has been there since DAO, right? However, I agree. ME3MP Annihilation Field acted like a dark space magic It seemed almost like something virulent yet "organic". I don't want a carbon copy of that power, but I would like them to do something that behaves like that again; the MEA version was pretty underwhelming. As for the better traps, and being able to interact with them - I love combos, give me more please True - the way "traps"/combat abilities/spells interact with each can make a huge difference to enjoyment and replayability. I discovered one of Origins combos completely by accident (the enhanced Life Drain - which needed the vulnerability hex) and honestly, the little achievement notification made my night as I'd been getting my arse handed to me at the time
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 17, 2018 2:47:46 GMT
We aren't hating BioWare. Why would I waste my time?
I want a better game. Nobody will be mad if they do that.
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Post by apollexander on Dec 17, 2018 2:49:12 GMT
On the contrary, I think the combat in DAI is the best in the series and also the best among AAA RPGs I've played (such as Fallouts, Dark Souls, TW3, etc). It follows the route of team-based tactical system while improving the dynamical part. Keeping in mind that it's still not a full action game, I'm fine with some drawbacks like collision detection. Melee combat in DAO feels clumsy and it also had its own problem. You can almost never hit a moving enemy using melee weapons. Then DA2 and DAI improved that a lot. I love that I can hit multiple enemies with a two-handed weapon. Actually, I had a playthrough with a pure melee team. I am a Knight Enchanter using the 'melee-staff' which looks like a sword. And I take Dorian (also using the melee-staff), Blackwall and Cole with me. That works well in nightmare mode with trials. The battles were really fun, especially when I was about to kill an enemy but suddenly frozen by the three ice mines by Dorian.
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2018 2:52:46 GMT
Aye the melee in DAI is really frustrating. The number of times I tried to use deathblow on a knocked down enemy only to strike the air above them is beyond counting So many backstabs where I hit air
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Post by DragonKingReborn on Dec 17, 2018 2:55:10 GMT
On the contrary, I think the combat in DAI is the best in the series and also the best among AAA RPGs I've played (such as Fallouts, Dark Souls, TW3, etc). It follows the route of team-based tactical system while improving the dynamical part. Keeping in mind that it's still not a full action game, I'm fine with some drawbacks like collision detection. Melee combat in DAO feels clumsy and it also had its own problem. You can almost never hit a moving enemy using melee weapons. Then DA2 and DAI improved that a lot. I love that I can hit multiple enemies with a two-handed weapon. Actually, I had a playthrough with a pure melee team. I am a Knight Enchanter using the 'melee-staff' which looks like a sword. And I take Dorian (also using the melee-staff), Blackwall and Cole with me. That works well in nightmare mode with trials. The battles were really fun, especially when I was about to kill an enemy but suddenly frozen by the three ice mines by Dorian. I get that Origins had some combat issues, but for me, it was more around the fact that it was hard to shake the sense that somewhere in the background a pair of dice were tumbling around. If I could get a combat system with Origins "complexity" (for want of a better term), the Tactics screen from DA2 and the animation and - crucially - animation speed of Inquisition...well...that'd be just fine.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 17, 2018 2:56:49 GMT
Aye the melee in DAI is really frustrating. The number of times I tried to use deathblow on a knocked down enemy only to strike the air above them is beyond counting So many backstabs where I hit air That's why I prefer DA2's "teleport behind the enemy" version of backstab. Lol.
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Post by apollexander on Dec 17, 2018 2:58:30 GMT
On the contrary, I think the combat in DAI is the best in the series and also the best among AAA RPGs I've played (such as Fallouts, Dark Souls, TW3, etc). It follows the route of team-based tactical system while improving the dynamical part. Keeping in mind that it's still not a full action game, I'm fine with some drawbacks like collision detection. Melee combat in DAO feels clumsy and it also had its own problem. You can almost never hit a moving enemy using melee weapons. Then DA2 and DAI improved that a lot. I love that I can hit multiple enemies with a two-handed weapon. Actually, I had a playthrough with a pure melee team. I am a Knight Enchanter using the 'melee-staff' which looks like a sword. And I take Dorian (also using the melee-staff), Blackwall and Cole with me. That works well in nightmare mode with trials. The battles were really fun, especially when I was about to kill an enemy but suddenly frozen by the three ice mines by Dorian. I get that Origins had some combat issues, but for me, it was more around the fact that it was hard to shake the sense that somewhere in the background a pair of dice were tumbling around. If I could get a combat system with Origins "complexity" (for want of a better term), the Tactics screen from DA2 and the animation and - crucially - animation speed of Inquisition...well...that'd be just fine. Then I would like the mage in DAO, the rogue in DA2, and the warrior in DAI.
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2018 2:58:54 GMT
So many backstabs where I hit air That's why I prefer DA2's "teleport behind the enemy" version of backstab. Lol. I approved of the Teleporting. Didn't care if it made sense, it made me feel like my character was swift and bad ass and could control the field by being everywhere
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Post by pessimistpanda on Dec 17, 2018 3:03:14 GMT
That's why I prefer DA2's "teleport behind the enemy" version of backstab. Lol. I approved of the Teleporting. Didn't care if it made sense, it made me feel like my character was swift and bad ass and could control the field by being everywhereYeah, basically for me, the most important thing about combat is that it be fun. Even if the fun comes purely from being visually impressive, and has no real substance. I can have fun a lot of different ways. But whether or not it made sense, I feel like DA2 was definitely tactical. Things like being able to teleport behind enemies to flank them are definitely tactics.
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Post by phoray on Dec 17, 2018 3:03:20 GMT
Then I would like the mage in DAO, the rogue in DA2, and the warrior in DAI. yes
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Post by lennybusker on Dec 17, 2018 3:30:06 GMT
I just reinstalled DAI recently in part because I enjoy the combat But OP's argument isn't totally wrong. I played my first playthrough as a warrior and had to make sure everyone else in the party was ranged to avoid the issue. All subsequent plays have been as mages just cause I like DA's magic. The future of DA's combat is a tricky thing though. Do they go full action-adventure combat, eschewing the more tactical approach historically found in party-based RPGs? Or do they dial it back to something more akin to turn based and feature greater emphasis on positioning, comboing with your team's skills, and deliberation? Once again, I have to fall back on blaming the engine, really. The combat in Origins and DA2 were better and more RPGlike, but we're in the Frostbite era now and EA has made the commandment from up on high that there's no going back. Can anyone really argue against FB3 being one of the biggest sources of Bioware's missteps since they adopted it?
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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Dec 17, 2018 3:40:17 GMT
I won't argue that point any further, that's for sure. You had me at engine Trespasser improved on a lot of RPGness... There was a lot more "cutscene" conversations, which was really lacking in DAI especially considering Iron Bull likes to casually walk into the middle of your convo and stand there like a jackass. Better door than a window bro. So, they made some improvements there that make me hopeful for a better game, and one that actually feels like a proper BioWare RPG. The gameplay remains the major issue. Fix the gang-bang team AI, perhaps consider friendly fire in AI decision making, and do not let multiple entities occupy the same space at the same time.
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Post by melbella on Dec 17, 2018 3:44:55 GMT
consider friendly fire in AI decision making Going back to DAO after playing DAI was quite the wake up call regarding friendly fire. I forgot it was a thing you couldn't turn off.
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