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Post by cloud9 on Dec 19, 2018 10:27:23 GMT
All BioWare has to do is to introduce motion capture to make combat design more competent and efficient.
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Dec 19, 2018 10:33:32 GMT
All? ..
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 19, 2018 12:45:27 GMT
The irony here being that MEA had some of the best combat in the series. lol I'm aware that the typical whingelord is incapable of compartmentalizing different aspects of a video game, but yes the "bad" MEA had the best combat in the Mass Effect series especially for the Biotic and Tech inclined. It was basically a straight up improvement over ME3's system which was also pretty great in itself. lel
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 19, 2018 12:49:53 GMT
I'm aware that the typical whingelord is incapable of compartmentalizing different aspects of a video game, but yes the "bad" MEA had the best combat in the Mass Effect series especially for the Biotic and Tech inclined. It was basically a straight up improvement over ME3's system which was also pretty great in itself. lel No.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Dec 19, 2018 12:50:32 GMT
I'm aware that the typical whingelord is incapable of compartmentalizing different aspects of a video game, but yes the "bad" MEA had the best combat in the Mass Effect series especially for the Biotic and Tech inclined. It was basically a straight up improvement over ME3's system which was also pretty great in itself. lel No. Yas Kween werk those one-liners.
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Dec 19, 2018 14:01:23 GMT
I'm aware that the typical whingelord is incapable of compartmentalizing different aspects of a video game, but yes the "bad" MEA had the best combat in the Mass Effect series especially for the Biotic and Tech inclined. It was basically a straight up improvement over ME3's system which was also pretty great in itself. lel No. mass effect 3 had great combat, by far better than the first two games. now mass effect andromeda, as Lebanese Dude said, was and improvement of that. the combat in andromeda was basically ME3 but with the ability to jump and no class restrictions. sure you couldn't pause, but that just more realistic, you had to plan on the go while under fire (you know since soldiers can't really pause combat in real life), and yes you can't control your companions, but with the ability to use combos yourself, controlling companions was kinda pointless. let's face it, with the way the combat works in andromeda, if you could pause and control your companions you'd be too OP. the only problem with the combat in andromeda is that on higher levels it wasn't challenging enough.
but hey, great counter point on your part.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 19, 2018 14:12:49 GMT
mass effect 3 had great combat, by far better than the first two games. now mass effect andromeda, as Lebanese Dude said, was and improvement of that. the combat in andromeda was basically ME3 but with the ability to jump and no class restrictions. sure you couldn't pause, but that just more realistic, you had to plan on the go while under fire (you know since soldiers can't really pause combat in real life), and yes you can't control your companions, but with the ability to use combos yourself, controlling companions was kinda pointless. let's face it, with the way the combat works in andromeda, if you could pause and control your companions you'd be too OP. the only problem with the combat in andromeda is that on higher levels it wasn't challenging enough.
but hey, great counter point on your part.MEA SP combat was quite OK. However, the picture is forever tainted by the shitty implementation of the MP with peashooter gunplay and powers and combos that were wet noodles. It took them half a year to figure it out. By then many of the players had already moved on. So yea, pretty shit experience for a dedicated fan who went for day 1 buy.
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N3
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Dec 19, 2018 14:20:58 GMT
mass effect 3 had great combat, by far better than the first two games. now mass effect andromeda, as Lebanese Dude said, was and improvement of that. the combat in andromeda was basically ME3 but with the ability to jump and no class restrictions. sure you couldn't pause, but that just more realistic, you had to plan on the go while under fire (you know since soldiers can't really pause combat in real life), and yes you can't control your companions, but with the ability to use combos yourself, controlling companions was kinda pointless. let's face it, with the way the combat works in andromeda, if you could pause and control your companions you'd be too OP. the only problem with the combat in andromeda is that on higher levels it wasn't challenging enough.
but hey, great counter point on your part.MEA SP combat was quite OK. However, the picture is forever tainted by the shitty implementation of the MP with peashooter gunplay and powers and combos that were wet noodles. It took them half a year to figure it out. By then many of the players had already moved on. So yea, pretty shit experience for a dedicated fan who went for day 1 buy.
i played the game when it was out, i have no idea what are you talking about. not even sure what peashooter even means. if you mean the damage output was low, than i can tell for a fact it wasn't. on high levels (even on early patches) it was too high. the combat was very interactive and quite fun. so was the story and dialogue actually. i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs*
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Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Dec 19, 2018 14:28:29 GMT
MEA SP combat was quite OK. However, the picture is forever tainted by the shitty implementation of the MP with peashooter gunplay and powers and combos that were wet noodles. It took them half a year to figure it out. By then many of the players had already moved on. So yea, pretty shit experience for a dedicated fan who went for day 1 buy.
i played the game when it was out, i have no idea what are you talking about. not even sure what peashooter even means. if you mean the damage output was low, than i can tell for a fact it wasn't. on high levels (even on early patches) it was too high. the combat was very interactive and quite fun. so was the story and dialogue actually. i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* Translation: he didnt get one shot kills immediately on lvl 1 like in me3mp
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 19, 2018 14:33:44 GMT
MEA SP combat was quite OK. However, the picture is forever tainted by the shitty implementation of the MP with peashooter gunplay and powers and combos that were wet noodles. It took them half a year to figure it out. By then many of the players had already moved on. So yea, pretty shit experience for a dedicated fan who went for day 1 buy.
i played the game when it was out, i have no idea what are you talking about. not even sure what peashooter even means. if you mean the damage output was low, than i can tell for a fact it wasn't. on high levels (even on early patches) it was too high. the combat was very interactive and quite fun. so was the story and dialogue actually. i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* I'm talking about the MP.
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Dec 19, 2018 14:53:20 GMT
i played the game when it was out, i have no idea what are you talking about. not even sure what peashooter even means. if you mean the damage output was low, than i can tell for a fact it wasn't. on high levels (even on early patches) it was too high. the combat was very interactive and quite fun. so was the story and dialogue actually. i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* I'm talking about the MP. why? multiplayer took an aspect of the combat gameplay and implemented it to a different more suited environment, it is not an actual representation of the full combat capabilities of the main game. andromeda is an RPG, the multiplayer was something extra, it is pointless to use it as an example of how the main game works. i played the game when it was out, i have no idea what are you talking about. not even sure what peashooter even means. if you mean the damage output was low, than i can tell for a fact it wasn't. on high levels (even on early patches) it was too high. the combat was very interactive and quite fun. so was the story and dialogue actually. i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* Translation: he didnt get one shot kills immediately on lvl 1 like in me3mp a real shame that is. haven't played the multiplayer in ME3 and barely played the multiplayer in andromeda. but as i stated, it's irrelevant, the game's combat is one thing and the multiplayer's combat is another. we are talking about the game's combat.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 19, 2018 15:04:01 GMT
I'm talking about the MP. why? multiplayer took an aspect of the combat gameplay and implemented it to a different more suited environment, it is not an actual representation of the full combat capabilities of the main game. andromeda is an RPG, the multiplayer was something extra, it is pointless to use it as an example of how the main game works. Translation: he didnt get one shot kills immediately on lvl 1 like in me3mp a real shame that is. haven't played the multiplayer in ME3 and barely played the multiplayer in andromeda. but as i stated, it's irrelevant, the game's combat is one thing and the multiplayer's combat is another. we are talking about the game's combat. WTF? The MP combat IS the game's combat. Just with different balance.
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Gileadan
N5
Agent 46
Clearance Level Ultra
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: ALoneGretchin
Posts: 2,672 Likes: 6,654
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Post by Gileadan on Dec 19, 2018 15:06:28 GMT
i played the game when it was out, i have no idea what are you talking about. not even sure what peashooter even means. if you mean the damage output was low, than i can tell for a fact it wasn't. on high levels (even on early patches) it was too high. the combat was very interactive and quite fun. so was the story and dialogue actually. i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* He was referring to the MP combat, which was very different from the pretty good SP combat on release. For some odd reason, the MP versions of the guns had different, considerably weaker stats than their SP counterparts, resulting in a much higher time to kill where you had to shoot one or more magazines worth of bullets into a single enemy to down them - which made said guns feel like peashooters. Additionally, balance was completely out of whack across the different levels of rarity, resulting in some common guns being objectively better than rares and ultra-rares. Powers were also underwhelming, and so a lot of players ended up using mostly melee attacks out of desperation - that is how bad it was. Over several months, the gun stats were eventually rebalanced, but for many people interested in the MP the damage was done, and the bloated MP loot pool (30 versions of each single gun) did not help either.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 19, 2018 15:11:27 GMT
i played the game when it was out, i have no idea what are you talking about. not even sure what peashooter even means. if you mean the damage output was low, than i can tell for a fact it wasn't. on high levels (even on early patches) it was too high. the combat was very interactive and quite fun. so was the story and dialogue actually. i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* ..., and so a lot of players ended up using mostly melee attacks out of desperation - that is how bad it was. ... Well, that was fun for a while at least.
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Blaze
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Dec 19, 2018 15:22:56 GMT
why? multiplayer took an aspect of the combat gameplay and implemented it to a different more suited environment, it is not an actual representation of the full combat capabilities of the main game. andromeda is an RPG, the multiplayer was something extra, it is pointless to use it as an example of how the main game works. a real shame that is. haven't played the multiplayer in ME3 and barely played the multiplayer in andromeda. but as i stated, it's irrelevant, the game's combat is one thing and the multiplayer's combat is another. we are talking about the game's combat. WTF? The MP combat IS the game's combat. Just with different balance. if you don't think "the different balance" made all the different then i don't know what to tell you... multiplayer is multiplayer, is not the game itself. and i'm not the only one who said the single player combat (which again, single player is the main game) was good. so saying multiplayer was bad (and i haven't played it enough to tell if it was or wasn't) while ignoring the fact that single player combat wasn't bad, won't magically mean that "mass effect andromeda combat was bad" multiplayer is not the main game, what relevant to whether or not the combat in andromeda was bad or not was the single player combat. PS: it's not "just" different balance, single player offers more options than multiplayer. the combat skills in multiplayer is restricted to the class you are playing. also the maps clearly works differently...
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Blaze
N3
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Dec 19, 2018 15:27:54 GMT
i played the game when it was out, i have no idea what are you talking about. not even sure what peashooter even means. if you mean the damage output was low, than i can tell for a fact it wasn't. on high levels (even on early patches) it was too high. the combat was very interactive and quite fun. so was the story and dialogue actually. i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* He was referring to the MP combat, which was very different from the pretty good SP combat on release. For some odd reason, the MP versions of the guns had different, considerably weaker stats than their SP counterparts, resulting in a much higher time to kill where you had to shoot one or more magazines worth of bullets into a single enemy to down them - which made said guns feel like peashooters. Additionally, balance was completely out of whack across the different levels of rarity, resulting in some common guns being objectively better than rares and ultra-rares. Powers were also underwhelming, and so a lot of players ended up using mostly melee attacks out of desperation - that is how bad it was. Over several months, the gun stats were eventually rebalanced, but for many people interested in the MP the damage was done, and the bloated MP loot pool (30 versions of each single gun) did not help either. well it is a shame, but it was not a representation of the main game, so while i agree that the combat in multiplayer should suck, it is important to distinquish between MEA combat and MEA multiplayer combat. so when people said that the combat in andromeda was good, his counter argument was that the multiplayer combat was bad, but even if it's true, it doesn't mean the andromeda combat was bad, since as i said several times, one have nothing to do with the other.
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Post by Pounce de León on Dec 19, 2018 15:28:44 GMT
WTF? The MP combat IS the game's combat. Just with different balance. if you don't think "the different balance" made all the different then i don't know what to tell you... multiplayer is multiplayer, is not the game itself. and i'm not the only one who said the single player combat (which again, single player is the main game) was good. so saying multiplayer was bad (and i haven't played it enough to tell if it was or wasn't) while ignoring the fact that single player combat wasn't bad, won't magically mean that "mass effect andromeda combat was bad" multiplayer is not the main game, what relevant to whether or not the combat in andromeda was bad or not was the single player combat. If you had read what I said you'd found out that the MP experience soured the SP for me as well. That's why I played like 10 playthroughs of ME3 but only 1 in MEA.
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Dec 19, 2018 15:37:34 GMT
if you don't think "the different balance" made all the different then i don't know what to tell you... multiplayer is multiplayer, is not the game itself. and i'm not the only one who said the single player combat (which again, single player is the main game) was good. so saying multiplayer was bad (and i haven't played it enough to tell if it was or wasn't) while ignoring the fact that single player combat wasn't bad, won't magically mean that "mass effect andromeda combat was bad" multiplayer is not the main game, what relevant to whether or not the combat in andromeda was bad or not was the single player combat. If you had read what I said you'd found out that the MP experience soured the SP for me as well. That's why I played like 10 playthroughs of ME3 but only 1 in MEA. well i'm sorry that happened, truly, because it is a fun game. that being said, it doesn't actually means the single player combat was bad, just cause it gave you bad memories of multiplayer. do not mistake me, i am not diminishing the fact you got a bad experience, i understand and it's a shame single player combat was soiled for you, but indevidual experience, even though valid, is not a representation. to give my own example, i played the first witcher game, really hated the combat and never finished the game, and as such never played the witcher 2 and 3, cause it soled the rest of the series for me, but i would not claim that the witcher 3 is a bad game because of that.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 19, 2018 18:02:16 GMT
All? .. If you have better ideas, I love to hear them.
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legendcncd
Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by Unicephalon 40-D on Dec 19, 2018 18:10:42 GMT
All? .. If you have better ideas, I love to hear them. I mean, its really not all they need "just to do", if you think a bit further. Nothing else at this point.
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Post by river82 on Dec 19, 2018 21:17:20 GMT
i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* People keep stating why, it seems you just keep ignoring it *shrugs*
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Post by river82 on Dec 19, 2018 21:29:52 GMT
All? .. If you have better ideas, I love to hear them. Strategic combat is slow, purely because of the nature of strategy. Strategy is long planning and involves tedious and slow play like positioning. In fact in chess, strategy is mostly about positional jostling, tactics is all about the fast exchange of moves. Divinity Original Sin 2 really nails this, positioning is important, and the combat while slow is fabulous. Action combat is fast, because that's what action is like, time speeds up and it should be fast to showcase this. Tactics are involved because, like I said earlier, tactics are a fast exchange of manoeuvres. I'm playing ESO and the combat is action, fast and fun. Same with Skyrim. Same with all the action games out there. It's very hard to blend fast action design and slow strategic design cohesively into one build. It's hard to make positioning important while still incorporating a fast paced feel. They need to pick one and stick with it. I don't think shoving a tac cam onto the combat field really does much.
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Blaze
N3
Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
Posts: 893 Likes: 952
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Everyone seem normal till you get to know them
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Post by Blaze on Dec 19, 2018 23:07:52 GMT
i have no idea why a lot of people didn't enjoy the game *shrugs* People keep stating why, it seems you just keep ignoring it *shrugs* not really. people just drop the name mass effect andromeda whenever they want to give an example of a bad bioware game and just state it as matter of fact, like i'm just supposed to accept that it's bad? do enlighten me what is unenjoyable about a game with good story, funny and relatedable protagonist, good combat system with fully customizeable abilities, and interesting companions (well aside from liam, but his personal mission was still one of my favorites) cobined togather into a fun game. so far the only actual reasoning i heard was back in 2017 when people claimed the animation was really bad. which frankly i don't think was as bad as people claimed it is, and even if it was, everything else pretty much compensated for it.
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Post by river82 on Dec 19, 2018 23:21:36 GMT
People keep stating why, it seems you just keep ignoring it *shrugs* not really. people just drop the name mass effect andromeda whenever they want to give an example of a bad bioware game and just state it as matter of fact, like i'm just supposed to accept that it's bad? do enlighten me what is unenjoyable about a game with good story, funny and relatedable protagonist, good combat system with fully customizeable abilities, and interesting companions (well aside from liam, but his personal mission was still one of my favorites) cobined togather into a fun game. so far the only actual reasoning i heard was back in 2017 when people claimed the animation was really bad. which frankly i don't think was as bad as people claimed it is, and even if it was, everything else pretty much compensated for it. Very quickly because I need to leave, but I'll be willing to expand on points when I get back. So in no particular order: People are more interesting than flora, so when designing an interesting setting it should be littered with examples of places that have obviously been touched, quite extensively, by ... people. The most interesting places in Skyrim or Bethesda games to explore, by most people, isn't the wildlife but the ruins, the forts, the dungeons. Places with demons, or history of people. Andromeda was influenced heavily by exploring unknown regions, or in other words, vast areas filled with very little at all. Which, for a lot of people, is dull. Mass Effect trilogy, on the other hand, was rife with life and civilisations, and therefore the world was a much deeper and interesting place. Andromeda was not filled with much of civilisation at all. Sure Andromeda was never intended that way, but it's still a criticism to say "I didn't like that. Go back to traditional Mass Effect." Side quests, or in other words, spend 20 minutes figuring out how to get up a mountain so you can collect 1/9 tags littered over the vast and abandoned wastelands of planets. Lack of character agency, or in other words there was no evil option for protagonists to play. In the trilogy you could be a mean psychopath, in Andromeda choices were limited and you weren't able to. Dialogue felt like teenage banter and often didn't reflect the gravitas of the situation. Which brings me to the word 'relatable'. Being 'relatable' or being able to identify with someone relies on your personal experience as a person. The protagonist felt like a kid to me, and as someone in their mid 30s the whole thing made me cringe more than once. Shepard was always more of an adult character, Ryder felt like her goofy teenage kid sister. No quarians! Combat was good. Characters were okay, hit and miss, but that was like that with the trilogy as well. But the villains were horrible, and not threatening. So that's off the top of my head. It is never accurate to think "I enjoyed the game, it must be enjoyable for everyone" because it wasn't an enjoyable experience for me. The emptiness of the world and the portrayal of the protagonist puts Andromeda firmly below ME1 for me as a game, even though the combat is better.
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Post by cloud9 on Dec 20, 2018 2:23:45 GMT
If you have better ideas, I love to hear them. Strategic combat is slow, purely because of the nature of strategy. Strategy is long planning and involves tedious and slow play like positioning. In fact in chess, strategy is mostly about positional jostling, tactics is all about the fast exchange of moves. Divinity Original Sin 2 really nails this, positioning is important, and the combat while slow is fabulous. Action combat is fast, because that's what action is like, time speeds up and it should be fast to showcase this. Tactics are involved because, like I said earlier, tactics are a fast exchange of manoeuvres. I'm playing ESO and the combat is action, fast and fun. Same with Skyrim. Same with all the action games out there. It's very hard to blend fast action design and slow strategic design cohesively into one build. It's hard to make positioning important while still incorporating a fast paced feel. They need to pick one and stick with it. I don't think shoving a tac cam onto the combat field really does much. Mass Effect has a blend of tactical shooter and Action RPG and it's successful. They can do the same thing with DA. They have got no excuses.
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