Star Wars: The Old Republic Discussion

Yeah, the name issue.  I have my fingers crossed over that one.  I'm only attached to a few of the names, but I hate having to think of new ones. 

I should be ok, since I came up with most of them pretty randomly and haven't gone in for any existing names from Star Wars or other fiction. I've been trying to play more regularly on all of them, but who knows how much "regular" playtime you need to not have to worry. I've been pretty out of it these past months so my efforts are pretty token.

I'm actually hoping my most at-risk name is my joke one (Crediblebulk)

Nice write-up, but I'm still surprised people say there is no Star Wars analogue for the agent. There may not be one direct inspiration like Vader, Luke or Han but i would still say there are two- Thrawn and Mara Jade. The former is the clever Imperial officer representing more of the everyman in the Imperial military (at least compared to the Sith) and the latter is basically a spy/assassin + the Force (you're even favored/chosen by your nominal Sith leader, who, while not the Emperor himself, is almost as creepy). Yes they don't quite have the presence of the main characters from the movies, but being introduced in one of the most longstanding and best received works in the EU should still count for something. And I would argue it does, in other classes as well. For example, while the smuggler couldn't be more Han Solo if he tried, you do have the option of ending up closer to Talon Karrde.

I would say the Trooper is more the odd one out in terms of inspiration. Like Yahtzee put it in his review of TOR, you could be Luke, Han or... "third bloke from the left?" as he points to a picture of stormtroopers. And I think it shows in the story more as well.

That being said though, the agent story is indeed the least "Star Wars"-ish story of them all, yet it still manages to be awesome for it.

Except you didn't. You paid for the product, sometimes ahead of time, and got the shiny as a bonus. That's it.

Attempting to then dictate terms on who gets the shiny later when the actual owners and makers of the shiny are thinking of going another route? Yeah, sounds entitled to me. The fact that you paid x amount at x time is irrelevant outside of the fact that you received a good that was (hopefully) to your satisfaction for fair price. It doesn't bind the company and it sure as hell doesn't bind me from buying/selling the same good at a later time under a similar or different deal- especially when the good in question, isn't even the main item in trade, but rather is a perk.

And even in your examples, have you never seen a store do a sale or other promotion for an item multiple times? McDonalds is bringing back the McRib- those scumbags! They clearly said limited time! They cheated me!!

Or hell, even a 20% sale where you bought in, only to find a 30% sale for the same thing a few days later? Yeah at worst you'll get a "damn I should've waited, people buying now get a better deal" feeling, but most people don't swear a holy vendetta against the merchant for "lying" or "cheating" them.

THAT largely depends of point of view: if I only subscribed for one particular month because it was said "subscribe for this month and get an exclusive" - I say I payed specifically for that very exclusive.



Dictate? When? It was BW who talked about exclusive using that very word. It was their condition, their promise - which they broke, creating a precedent and loosing consumers trust.



Really?! McDonalds was selling one-time-cooked-only McRib, promising in advertisement that this recipe will never be used again?! Because BW did exactly that.

It's not a "better deal", it's not "20%" off - it's a promise of exclusive and payment for exclusive. CS in TOR constantly sells some items for one price today - and cheaper/more expensive another. No one complains. But promising an exclusive and suddenly giving it to everyone - that IS a false promise, people have all the rights to be angry. They at least had have some decency to re-skin it.

Well, your words about "exclusive was only a bonus" is no more true. And the word "exclusive" remains in either way. Meaning, broken promise and false advertisement. 
BW has many rewards that anyone can obtain in time (take "buddy" program, for example) - they do know how to call it and how to do it (they also very familiar with breaking things inside that package, but this is another story). However BW, on their own volition, implemented another reward - exclusives. THEY called it like this, THEY explained about "you will be the only one with that item". Breaking this is admitting "we were lying". 

You do realize what a bad argument this is? I subscribed for a service only because I wanted the shiny? Did you get a cell phone plan only because they threw in a knicknack? Did you buy a car because it came with a stuffed teddy? Be serious. You subscribed because you were interested enough in the service, and a shiny might've simply tipped you over the edge. You paid for the service and you got it. Not to mention the fact that you have precisely zero rights here, over the (exclusivity of the) shiny or anything else. Isn't that what some people who share your reasoning always say when someone asks for one of these things? "You don't have rights to x, the company owns it all, be happy they're letting you use it"? Well, that works both ways. You don't get a say in what they chose to do or not do with any of their pixels. You can agree or disagree, but that's about it. Besides, you have yet to explain why you care who has what shiny at all, provided yours isn't taken away and you've had all this extra time with it that no one can take away from you, nor replicate or catch up on.

Dictate when you complain to BioWare about "muh exclusive" (not saying you personally, just people who hold this viewpoint and do go off on it). What they give or don't give to others for money or for free affects precisely dick about your experience but you seek to alter things for other people regardless. You don't actually dictate because you can't, but it follows that you would, if you could. I don't understand this.

Yes, McD's was selling "limited time" McRibs- get them before they're gone. Except, what, now they're back? But I only got one because it said they'd be gone and now they're back! The audacity! See how silly it sounds?

Ahhh yeah that does make way more sense. 

They'd be foolish to shut down the EU servers, but then again I thought the same of closing APAC.  I can understand wanting to save some money, but geez.  They must have had a bean counter look at numbers and decide it was worth it.  Bean counters.  Sigh.

No, it isn't and resistance to promotions has nothing to do with it. A promotion only "works" if you're interested in the good or service it's promoting (or in some cases where the good/service is negligible in its impact, like siging up for a credit card you'll never use just to get the free George Foreman, though I think you'll agree that can't be the case here, as teh shiny is intrinsically tied to the service, i.e. the game). Beyond that, the only relevant question is, if you were influenced to get the good/service by the dangling of a shiny, did you get said shiny as intended? If yes, you have no beef.

Loot boxes and RNG are also unrelated, unless you're gonna turn around and claim they "promised" you any specific item (which would be a hilarious reversal). And achievements are the furthest thing from anything we're talking about. You'll notice I specifically said I don't begrudge raiders or PVPers for their exclusive shinies because those are tied to achieving things in game- you do x, you get y. That's fair. That takes time and/or skill, though we can debate the ratios in a separate discussion. But I'm sorry, mere participation "you showed up, yay" trophies are not the same thing, not by far. Shelling out money isn't a skill and if you shelled it out once, another can shell it out again.

You were not promised anything that wasn't delivered in this case. You got a shiny when no one else did. It was "exclusive" at the time. If that made you happy, great. Now it's time to make other people happy and you have no business interfering since it affects precisely dick about your experience past or present. Again, no one can take away the time you've already enjoyed and no one is taking away any present or potential future enjoyment out of the things you've earned or acquired- unless your ego really can't take a few more people with "your" shiny (and again, not saying you specifically, this isn't personal). 

Look, I understand the definition of the words here. But an absolute reading of the word exclusive isn't applicable here. And I have no problem saying that meaning should never be applied or even implied to any participation promotion like this. Forget the users, it just doesn't make business sense- if a promotion was successful, why the hell wouldn't you use it again? That's just shooting yourself in teh foot. But here's another aspect: change happens. Especially in this game model. Can you think of some other things a company said they'd never do, and then ended up doing? Yeah, I bet you can, and those examples are a lot worse than a little trinket now being available to a few more people.

"Free to subscribers who were subscribed on October 19, 2015" -so by your logic, giving it away is now a mortal sin.

There was no other way to get the Hutt trainer at the time. If they start selling it now, it doesn't change the fact that you had it for three years (and will continue to have it still). Does it really have to be the end of time for you? There is nothing of value behind this absolute standard of exclusivity apart from some ill-defined vocal minority feeling special.

That's not the same promotion then, is it? That's a similar promotion, or one of the same type. And you know what also might  happen (and quite more plausibly is)? People who bought stuff back in the day moving on for a variety of reasons and not buying anything regardless. Your ill-defined minority is now even more nebulous and you've slaving to some misguided loyalty to the indifferent departed. Great plan. Here's a better one: use the damn shinies you have (saving yourself the work of making some new ones, or even reskinning) and attract all the (new) customers you can. Use promotions where you can actually get metrics from to see whether you're gaining more than you're losing. And if you're such a stickler for language, keep the incentive angle limited to "limited time" . Because there is nothing intrinsically worse about a Hutt trainer who's on for a limited time over one who was only on three years ago. Nothing at all. They all speak teh same "ha HA!"

What I'm hearing about APAC ping is really disappointing. I hope the next expansion is single-player story because I can't imagine doing group content with that much ping.

I couldn't find any in 5 min of googling, but trust me, it was an official promo. It was a similar thing to the HK-55 progression- stay subbed for longer before an expac drop and get more stuff. I remember a month from KOTFE you'd get the speeder, two months, Nico's blasters, three months, his coat, 4 months Nico himself. Maybe I got the order wrong but that's what it basically was.

No one cares how long you subscribed, except maybe BioWare themselves and they don't need a shiny to tell them. They have metrics. And what do you care for, supporting the game or getting the shiny? If the former, congratulations, mission already accomplished, go ahead and pat yourself on the back. What's this, you care about "muh exclusive" because it's "muh exclusive"? That doesn't have much to do with supporting the game, now does it? Seems like the end goal is again, just you (hypothetical bastion of exclusivity) feeling special.

No one's taking their shiny away. They've had it for years before anyone else and they'll have it still until the server shuts down. As for "caring", see above.

Easy there. Forums are explicitly the vocal minority. This is known. The vast majority of any game's population doesn't so much as google it, let alone post daily on forums. The people crying about "muh exclusives" are just as insignificant as those crying for alternate methods to get said shinies, when compared to the larger population that simply plays the game and moves on when they get bored.

And if you think BioWare, a rapidly dwindling sock puppet of EA cares about "consumer loyalty", well then I'm not sure what else you want me to say.

You have yet to explain how "limited time" is somehow intrinsically false and "not to be believed". If they say "limited time" and they have it on for only a limited time and then they bring it back, again only for a limited time, how are they "lying"? They're not promising snowflake levels of specialness, but as I've been saying for days now, that's only for the better.