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Post by shinobiwan on Mar 26, 2019 20:40:42 GMT
Uh.
Seems like the loot system also has a very convoluted architecture. Every time they change one thing, 10 others break.
I'm not a programmer at all, so I'm not well versed in this. My question is how would a bug like that happen with the loot system? Not sure, but the underlying DRM software can make these kinds of things unnecessarily convoluted. That, and Frostbite wasn't built for this, maybe? Edit - confirmed to be a bug now. The rest remains a mystery, lol.
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Post by aglomeracja on Mar 26, 2019 21:19:36 GMT
Uh.
Seems like the loot system also has a very convoluted architecture. Every time they change one thing, 10 others break.
I'm not a programmer at all, so I'm not well versed in this. My question is how would a bug like that happen with the loot system? I don't know and probably no one will know exactly without actually looking at the code, but it looks like they were rushing those systems and cutting many corners on the way. In programming often you can easily make something work "right now", but the fastest solutions usually cause more trouble down the road. If you allow some of those bad decisions early on and you're completely fucked, because then you can either keep developing broken system and making it even more convoluted, or you have to do everything from the scratch and loose a lot of time. This probably wouldn't be a problem if they made a single player RPG in which you have to get thing to mostly work once and you're good, but if you have a messy code in GAAS then you get Anthem.
As an example, think about one of the issues we've seen early on with weapon damage scaling. People were posting videos where they compared damage between masterwork weapon and one of those basic white ones you get with new loadout. When you look at stats, the Masterwork weapon was clearly much better and when shooting mobs you got higher floating numbers from it, but you actually needed fewer shots to take down the same mob with basic white weapon. How is that possible? It means that either:
1. floating numbers are "wrong" and white weapons are actually doing more damage (i.e. weapon damage scaling is off and displayed damage done is off) 2. it's not weapon damage that's being scaled, but enemies HP (i.e. enemies HP depends partly on your equipped weapon- that would explain less hits needed despite lower damage)
Either way, something has to be really wrong with how the game works if you're getting results like that. The way they were going to fix it (IIRC by making it impossible to equip white weapons above level 1 or sth) wasn't a real fix, but just a quick cover up of the issue (which btw. is exactly the kind of thing that might contribute to even more issues down the road).
Edit: it's not necessarily what happened with this loot update though, it is possible that it's just a regular fuck up + not enough testing issue, but they mess something up everytime they touch loot, so probably there's more going on.
I'm not a programmer at all, so I'm not well versed in this. My question is how would a bug like that happen with the loot system? Not sure, but the underlying DRM software can make these kinds of things unnecessarily convoluted. That, and Frostbite wasn't built for this, maybe? Nah.
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linksocarina
N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
Posts: 3,186 Likes: 4,072
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Post by linksocarina on Mar 26, 2019 21:41:43 GMT
I'm not a programmer at all, so I'm not well versed in this. My question is how would a bug like that happen with the loot system? I don't know and probably no one will know exactly without actually looking at the code, but it looks like they were rushing those systems and cutting many corners on the way. In programming often you can easily make something work "right now", but the fastest solutions usually cause more trouble down the road. If you allow some of those bad decisions early on and you're completely fucked, because then you can either keep developing broken system and making it even more convoluted, or you have to do everything from the scratch and loose a lot of time. This probably wouldn't be a problem if they made a single player RPG in which you have to get thing to mostly work once and you're good, but if you have a messy code in GAAS then you get Anthem.
As an example, think about one of the issues we've seen early on with weapon damage scaling. People were posting videos where they compared damage between masterwork weapon and one of those basic white ones you get with new loadout. When you look at stats, the Masterwork weapon was clearly much better and when shooting mobs you got higher floating numbers from it, but you actually needed fewer shots to take down the same mob with basic white weapon. How is that possible? It means that either:
1. floating numbers are "wrong" and white weapons are actually doing more damage (i.e. weapon damage scaling is off and displayed damage done is off) 2. it's not weapon damage that's being scaled, but enemies HP (i.e. enemies HP depends partly on your equipped weapon- that would explain less hits needed despite lower damage)
Either way, something has to be really wrong with how the game works if you're getting results like that. The way they were going to fix it (IIRC by making it impossible to equip white weapons above level 1 or sth) wasn't a real fix, but just a quick cover up of the issue (which btw. is exactly the kind of thing that might contribute to even more issues down the road).
Edit: it's not necessarily what happened with this loot update though, it is possible that it's just a regular fuck up + not enough testing issue, but they mess something up everytime they touch loot, so probably there's more going on.
Not sure, but the underlying DRM software can make these kinds of things unnecessarily convoluted. That, and Frostbite wasn't built for this, maybe? Nah. So what would be a permanent fix if thats possible to even get.
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Post by aglomeracja on Mar 26, 2019 21:56:15 GMT
I don't know and probably no one will know exactly without actually looking at the code, but it looks like they were rushing those systems and cutting many corners on the way. In programming often you can easily make something work "right now", but the fastest solutions usually cause more trouble down the road. If you allow some of those bad decisions early on and you're completely fucked, because then you can either keep developing broken system and making it even more convoluted, or you have to do everything from the scratch and loose a lot of time. This probably wouldn't be a problem if they made a single player RPG in which you have to get thing to mostly work once and you're good, but if you have a messy code in GAAS then you get Anthem. As an example, think about one of the issues we've seen early on with weapon damage scaling. People were posting videos where they compared damage between masterwork weapon and one of those basic white ones you get with new loadout. When you look at stats, the Masterwork weapon was clearly much better and when shooting mobs you got higher floating numbers from it, but you actually needed fewer shots to take down the same mob with basic white weapon. How is that possible? It means that either:
1. floating numbers are "wrong" and white weapons are actually doing more damage (i.e. weapon damage scaling is off and displayed damage done is off) 2. it's not weapon damage that's being scaled, but enemies HP (i.e. enemies HP depends partly on your equipped weapon- that would explain less hits needed despite lower damage) Either way, something has to be really wrong with how the game works if you're getting results like that. The way they were going to fix it (IIRC by making it impossible to equip white weapons above level 1 or sth) wasn't a real fix, but just a quick cover up of the issue (which btw. is exactly the kind of thing that might contribute to even more issues down the road). Edit: it's not necessarily what happened with this loot update though, it is possible that it's just a regular fuck up + not enough testing issue, but they mess something up everytime they touch loot, so probably there's more going on.
Nah. So what would be a permanent fix if thats possible to even get. It's hard to tell. Maybe a complete rework of some of those systems would be necessary, maybe not. In this kind of game loot, damage or scaling systems have to be built to be flexible, because there's always a need for some tweaks here and there. AFAIK they lost a lot of their original manpower after release, I even read somewhere that a completely different team took over Anthem and the original creators went to work on another project. If that's the case, then they just won't be able to fix it, because new programmers don't even know their product. They might be able to patch it up eventually and make it much better for players, but further development will be slow and buggy until they deal with whatever's underneath.
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by bshep on Mar 26, 2019 22:36:07 GMT
Loot from strongholds is bugged. Shit. On the other hand my Ranger is really powerfull now and no more paper shields/armor problem.
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
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Post by Obadiah on Mar 27, 2019 2:02:55 GMT
Loot from strongholds is bugged. Shit. On the other hand my Ranger is really powerfull now and no more paper shields/armor problem. Lucky me - my least favorite activity. Just did a Legendary Contract and it seemed fine. P.S. Also, I think the graphics on XBoxOne got a little boost. Seems a little smoother... or I might finally be playing on a clear day. Had a lot of rainy, windy days recently.
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Kelwing
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Necomis
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Post by Kelwing on Mar 27, 2019 2:20:32 GMT
So does it even show what you get from those new chests? Only two of us had keys but I never even saw what I got from it. On top of not even seeing a single MW drop in TOS.
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saandrig
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Post by saandrig on Mar 27, 2019 8:32:11 GMT
Anyone else having 20% LESS thrusters instead of the 20% buff the patch was supposed to give? I even had to throw in some thruster inscriptions just to get back the flight time I am used to. Oh, and the Thruster MW doesn't seem to work at all too.
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Aug 21, 2024 20:48:47 GMT
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Dekibra on Mar 27, 2019 9:03:31 GMT
So does it even show what you get from those new chests? Only two of us had keys but I never even saw what I got from it. On top of not even seeing a single MW drop in TOS.
Yeah, the experience of "opening" those Caches really is subpar ... got 2 things as well and still don't know what the second thing was (and honestly the solution shouldn't be that you have to restart the game in order for the shinies to show up ) Anyone else having 20% LESS thrusters instead of the 20% buff the patch was supposed to give? I even had to throw in some thruster inscriptions just to get back the flight time I am used to. Oh, and the Thruster MW doesn't seem to work at all too.
yup, had the same impressions, my Interceptor overheated way more quickly and it takes ages for the red-overheated indicator to turn white again
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Mar 27, 2019 9:50:07 GMT
Anyone else having 20% LESS thrusters instead of the 20% buff the patch was supposed to give? I even had to throw in some thruster inscriptions just to get back the flight time I am used to. Oh, and the Thruster MW doesn't seem to work at all too. Don't know i haven't been using that gear in quite sometime.
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Thrombin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Mar 27, 2019 10:37:51 GMT
With all the thruster improvements I was hoping to see a big difference in my flight time but, now that you mention it, it didn't seem improved at all.
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Post by Kappa Neko on Mar 27, 2019 10:48:52 GMT
Excuse my ignorance on the current situation but I thought ALL loot is automatically transferred even if you don't pick it up? I remember Bioware saying that when people complained they get sent back to the fort too quickly after a mission in the beginning.
Was that patched before then so that people can now choose to pick up specific loot?
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Post by SofaJockey on Mar 27, 2019 10:53:19 GMT
So does it even show what you get from those new chests? Only two of us had keys but I never even saw what I got from it. On top of not even seeing a single MW drop in TOS. It tells you what you got in the post-mission screens: There is no separate checklist. You can see the items under 'appearance' in the Forge, but it does take some minutes to trigger there.
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saandrig
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Posts: 3,704 Likes: 7,748
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Post by saandrig on Mar 27, 2019 11:01:23 GMT
Excuse my ignorance on the current situation but I thought ALL loot is automatically transferred even if you don't pick it up? I remember Bioware saying that when people complained they get sent back to the fort too quickly after a mission in the beginning.
Was that patched before then so that people can now choose to pick up specific loot?
Only MW and Legendary drops were supposed to be like that - in your end inventory even if you didn't pick them up. And even so it didn't work every time. And now any teammate passing close to your item (they don't see it on their screen) picks it up for your inventory. More of a Freeplay issue, but also denies you the little joy of seeing a drop and going to it to grab it. I actually didn't notice I got a Legendary until the end screen. No idea where it came from.
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Sylvae
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: SylvaeDragon
Posts: 118 Likes: 171
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Post by Sylvae on Mar 27, 2019 11:34:05 GMT
My experience from cca 4 hours playtime post-1.0.4: - loot is still extremely random, got 1 MW + 1 Leggo from downing one Titan (GM3), got several blues from Furies + Ursixes + Luminaries (GM2), got 1 Leggo drop from (stupid) Wyvern (GM2) - got Decal drop from Elysian chest and it disappeared (???) - doing Legendary Mission, we (with saandrig) hit a "no progress" bug immediatelly, it got fixed by suciding ourselves (and basically duo-ing it since other players left and no QP option for Legendary Mission - though giubba did join us right before the final chest dropped and he teased us with "Hey, Legendary!" (he did get me, good one giubba ) - my game did crash once, though it may not be contributed to a game - my damage as Ranger did drop substantialy, though it still feels rather good, survivability didn't seem changed (which is cool) - EDIT: combos not working cca half a time (this one really sucks) - and once more, loot seems to be pure chaos again - also, I don't like that other people are picking up a loot for me, like "why?" (I've read though that it actually may be a bug) I may update this as(if) I find something else.
EDIT: Oh, and I forgot: My LoD weapons and abilities just disappeared... WUT??? WHY?
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Sylvae
N2
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
Origin: SylvaeDragon
Posts: 118 Likes: 171
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Post by Sylvae on Mar 27, 2019 12:39:25 GMT
OK, let's see then...
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 27, 2019 12:48:13 GMT
Uh.
Seems like the loot system also has a very convoluted architecture. Every time they change one thing, 10 others break.
I'm not a programmer at all, so I'm not well versed in this. My question is how would a bug like that happen with the loot system?
LOL,
Bio devs /designers forgot the basic KISS principle of programming. Keep it Simple Stupid. Thus, the greater the complexity, the greater are the chances of the game logic failing. An example is a potential loot storage table overlay (programming error) and a change in one cell of a blue item will also change the value of an equivalent cell in another table of another different item. Unfortunately, in this case (overlay) they both occupied the same memory location.
Worse is when only a partial table is overlayed with another. This makes debugging a migraine 'cause sometimes a change works and at another time causes havoc.
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Post by Sartoz on Mar 27, 2019 12:54:27 GMT
My experience from cca 4 hours playtime post-1.0.4: Snip - also, I don't like that other people are picking up a loot for me, like "why?" (I've read though that it actually may be a bug) I may update this as(if) I find something else.
It's a game design goal for the purpose of helping newbies teamed up with vets get rewarded for their meager efforts as an enticement to continue playing. In this case, everybody wins.
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Thrombin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Mar 27, 2019 13:28:57 GMT
My experience from cca 4 hours playtime post-1.0.4: Snip - also, I don't like that other people are picking up a loot for me, like "why?" (I've read though that it actually may be a bug) I may update this as(if) I find something else.
It's a game design goal for the purpose of helping newbies teamed up with vets get rewarded for their meager efforts as an enticement to continue playing. In this case, everybody wins.
The issue of sharing loot has been said to be a bug but the issue of other people triggering the pickup of your own loot (which I believe is supposed to just go to you, not them) sounds like they're just trying to make it more convenient so you don't have to spend quite so much time running around trying to pick up crystals when you're supposed to be fighting!
That wasn't mentioned as a change in the patch notes and I'm not sure I like it either. If we aren't responsible for picking up our own loot then it's not nearly as satisfying. The game may as well not have the crystals at all. Just award you immediately you earn them without having to run over them!
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aznricepuff
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Origin: aznricepuff
XBL Gamertag: aznricepuff
Posts: 182 Likes: 197
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by aznricepuff on Mar 27, 2019 13:35:21 GMT
After getting to play a little last night, I'm not convinced of the reports that the chest loot tables have gotten diluted by adding embers to them. I was getting similar numbers of items from stronghold chests as I did pre-patch with additional ember drops on top of that. It was a limited sample though, and sometimes it was hard to tell how many items I actually got from a chest due to the global loot pick-up bug (maybe this is why some people feel they are getting fewer items?).
I did find an interesting bug with the interceptor, though. If you stack two different status effects on an enemy, you can chain infinite combos on that enemy as long as the status effects persist. It probably has something to do with the change where interceptors can now detonate combos even when they have a combo aura up already. It was fun at first, but eventually the ka-ching! sound of combos going off every second got kinda grating.
I also noticed playing as a Ranger that sometimes combos would not detonate properly. It's especially apparent when using Recurring Vengeance, because it will refresh charge as if you had detonated a combo, but you would not get the visual or audio cue for a combo nor the extra damage.
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
Posts: 2,677 Likes: 3,624
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Post by Obadiah on Mar 27, 2019 13:37:14 GMT
Two matches played bot times I get to the end screen with the expedition complete sign with the other players and it just stalls with and never ending 'recording victories' screen, no match scores. I have to 'skip expedition results' to continue.\ Anyone else getting this? Happened to me once on XBoxOne. Skipping took me to the loot screen, so I don't think I lost anything. In my case, this happened at the end of a Legendary Contract for the Daily Challenge, and I got the Elysium Key.
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Thrombin
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Posts: 895 Likes: 1,300
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by Thrombin on Mar 27, 2019 14:46:47 GMT
Two matches played bot times I get to the end screen with the expedition complete sign with the other players and it just stalls with and never ending 'recording victories' screen, no match scores. I have to 'skip expedition results' to continue.\ Anyone else getting this? Happened to me once on XBoxOne. Skipping took me to the loot screen, so I don't think I lost anything. In my case, this happened at the end of a Legendary Contract for the Daily Challenge, and I got the Elysium Key.
My first mission after the patch the game hung half way through the end screen stuff. Had to quit the game and restart.
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Beerfish
N7
Little Pumpkin
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Beerfish
XBL Gamertag: Beerfish77
Posts: 15,177 Likes: 36,346
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Little Pumpkin
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beerfish
https://bsn.boards.net/user/314/personal
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Beerfish
Beerfish77
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Post by Beerfish on Mar 27, 2019 15:24:35 GMT
Two matches played bot times I get to the end screen with the expedition complete sign with the other players and it just stalls with and never ending 'recording victories' screen, no match scores. I have to 'skip expedition results' to continue.\ Anyone else getting this? Happened to me once on XBoxOne. Skipping took me to the loot screen, so I don't think I lost anything. In my case, this happened at the end of a Legendary Contract for the Daily Challenge, and I got the Elysium Key. Had a few good missions and then it happened again. I did not notice if it was only on legendary contracts or not. I'll try and take note of that today.
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April 2017
samhain444
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by samhain444 on Mar 27, 2019 15:29:24 GMT
Played Legendary Mission (Incursion) twice, the three Legendary contracts, Tyrant Mine and some Freeplay (a little over 3 hrs) and didn't run into any issue on the XBox One X...got two LGs and about 10 MWs so the loot seemed appropriate running GM1
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bshep
N5
We destroy them or they destroy us.
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: MasterDassJennir
Prime Posts: 1876
Prime Likes: 376
Posts: 4,444 Likes: 7,936
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bshep
We destroy them or they destroy us.
4,444
August 2016
bshep
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Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
MasterDassJennir
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Post by bshep on Mar 27, 2019 16:53:29 GMT
Played Legendary Mission (Incursion) twice, the three Legendary contracts, Tyrant Mine and some Freeplay (a little over 3 hrs) and didn't run into any issue on the XBox One X...got two LGs and about 10 MWs so the loot seemed appropriate running GM1 The problem seems to be mostly on the stronghold bosses. I got a storm legendary doing the legendary mission and several MW during game modes.
But it doesn't happen always. The Tyrant mine didn't drop one but the Scar Mine boss did.
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