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Post by KrrKs on Feb 16, 2019 23:09:22 GMT
I'm interested in other opinions about what the least useful profile is -and why. (Kind of the opposite thread to the favourite profiles thread) Additionally: Has anyone actually reliably gotten the soldier's marsksman focus to trigger, and if so how and on which difficulty?
As for my opinion: The worst profile is either the infiltrator or the explorer. The most useful feature of both is imo the tech recharge bonus. The infiltrator's weak point bonus is nice (or would be, I could aim for shit ), though imo not large enough for how situational its application ends up to be. The increased accuracy and stability sound nice, but are only really needed if one would try to use the incisor at long range. Which is probably even with those a bad idea. The augmented vision is nice though. The Explorer on the other hand has some for everything, but nothing really stands out (which is kind of the point, i guess ). Its biggest feature, the biotic blink, seems be reliably messing up when actually needed. At least it does for me - ' Getting shot? Biotic Blink to .... the exact same place i started, actually'.
The soldier could be contender, too. But I guess the increased magazine size works surprisingly well for that role. As for the marksman focus: I only ever got that really to work when specifically trying to get it to work, using OP guns and not enough cover -and 8 out of 10 times this was on normal difficulty. (Did I mention that I'm a lousy shot?)
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Post by Serza on Feb 16, 2019 23:44:35 GMT
SOMEONE here can't Inloltrate.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 17, 2019 2:53:46 GMT
I kind of think adept is. The reason why is sentinel just adepts better. It is pretty god awful design actually, on top of echos just being a lore bending bit of silliness.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 17, 2019 3:07:38 GMT
For me I find the soldier one is the worst one for my style of play I find the mixed ones the half and half's best to use for me personally and by half and half I mean the Sentinel/Infiltrator/Vanguard ones. I can and do use all 7 though. My next Ryder's going to be an Adept when I play her.
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Post by KrrKs on Feb 17, 2019 16:17:03 GMT
I kind of think adept is. The reason why is sentinel just adepts better. It is pretty god awful design actually, on top of echos just being a lore bending bit of silliness. Yeah, the echoes do break the lore. On the other hand, the initial ME1 explanation for biotics doesn't really allow biosplosions of any form, so that break started with ME2 (That's one of the improvements I actually really like!)Though I must admit that I still don't quite get the sentinel > adept argument. I got to play around a bit with a Singularity, Pull, Throw - biosplosion adept the last two days. And that thing is a beast (at least on normal difficulty, where most of my tests occur). Yeah the sentinel gets a combo damage bonus of up to 40%, but the echo explosions do 50% extra damage directly on each enemy hit by the original explosion and have a radius of half the original explosion's! So the potential for multi-hits is definitely there - especially with the adept increased biotic explosion radius, which also boosts secondary echoes explosions. ( Or at least it should, there is slight misconfiguration in that file. )
SOMEONE here can't Inloltrate. Guilty as charged Though even while sucking at using it, the infiltrator profile is more fun than the soldier. That on is just boring, imo.
Are there any suggestions how to make the worst profiles any better? That was actually the original intention for this thread, inspired by capn233 finding that the soldiers marksman bonus does not actually provide escalating damage...
Also: I really shouldn't post polls at midnight, considering the first option for the 'worst profile' is 'worst profile'
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Post by ahglock on Feb 17, 2019 16:39:17 GMT
The reason adepts are worse than sentinels Id only have to guess at. I can only speak on insanity sentinels biotic explosions kill base level enemies pretty much all the time. Adepts leave then alive a lot. Like the same fight I switch profiles and start doing more damage despite both being the same level.
If I had to guess is a biotic echo does 50% but that 50% gets applied vs any defense separately. So off of a base 100 the sentinel hits for 140 reduced by defense the adept hits with a 100 and a 50 each getting reduced by any applicable defense. In my experience it needs multiple echos to do as much damage as the sentinels just boosted damage. And if your design is hey if enough enemies are there you might do as much damage as the generalist in your specialty the design kind of sucks.
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Post by capn233 on Feb 17, 2019 20:56:42 GMT
Wait a second.
Soldier's marksman focus may not escalate, but it still gives you the big 50% weapon damage bonus as well as the big health bonus. Other than that, it also gives straight weapon damage instead of situational weak point and you can't sleep on the mag size buff either. 2 Shot Isharay...
Infiltrator gets a lot more accuracy and stability, but unfortunately most of the best guns don't need a lot of that. Recharge speed buffs are not too useful after Harvarl since you can have Fusion Mod of Adrenaline and just break the whole cooldown system. Weak point bonus is only mildly higher than Soldier's straight weapon damage bonus but on the whole it probably works to lower damage overall (when you can't hit a weak point, and after Soldier goes into Marksman's Focus).
Explorer is ok to me. Second most weapon damage, second most DR (even if it is half at max compared to the most), and some other token junk. A lot of Power Restoration and Defense for some reason.
Adept and Engineer seem like the two worst to me because they are pretty combo-centric, and combos are not that great. Engineer is also burdened by Construct buffs, which are nearly completely useless to me. Plus if you want combo damage, Sentinel has a lot of that anyway.
The odd one out is Vanguard since it is somewhat specialized. Melee damage is ok, shield stuff is ok, it really only makes sense to me if you want to run Charge, Lance, whatever, and Melee. The whatever is probably going to have to be Annihilation Field to stack debuffs though.
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Post by melbella on Feb 18, 2019 0:38:04 GMT
I have a hard time using any other profile than Infiltrator so I have no idea which one might be 'worst.' I don't really like the Biotic Blink though. I prefer the invisi-dodge from Infiltrator.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2019 2:17:44 GMT
I like the infiltrator's ability to spot enemies behind cover as well as being briefly invisible while evading. Probably the profile I've used the least is the vanguard. I'm just not inclined to want to melee much at all in this game.
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Post by KrrKs on Feb 18, 2019 21:32:09 GMT
Soldier's marksman focus may not escalate, but it still gives you the big 50% weapon damage bonus as well as the big health bonus. Other than that, it also gives straight weapon damage instead of situational weak point and you can't sleep on the mag size buff either. 2 Shot Isharay... Infiltrator gets a lot more accuracy and stability, but unfortunately most of the best guns don't need a lot of that.[...] This is pretty much what i intended to write, even though it probably did not come over this way.
I still disagree about the caster/combo profiles though. Combos are by far not as powerful as in ME3, but can be chained much more frequent (at least if they are of different primer type). Especially the cryo-explosion engineer felt really powerful (IIRC). Technically the Sentinel profile becomes better than the Engineer past rank 3 or Havarl, but before that the recharge bonus from the drone is definitely noticeable. Though this probably all dependent on the skills in use.
As for the 'burden' of construct bonuses for the engineer: That seems to be the natural step of the engineers 'dronification'. I think its good that at least one profile provides some much needed boosts for the constructs.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 18, 2019 22:44:32 GMT
I like the infiltrator's ability to spot enemies behind cover as well as being briefly invisible while evading. Probably the profile I've used the least is the vanguard. I'm just not inclined to want to melee much at all in this game. Yeah I'm not great at meleeing either though I do find it a little easier in MEA than in the trilogy.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 18, 2019 23:39:12 GMT
I like the infiltrator's ability to spot enemies behind cover as well as being briefly invisible while evading. Probably the profile I've used the least is the vanguard. I'm just not inclined to want to melee much at all in this game. Yeah I'm not great at meleeing either though I do find it a little easier in MEA than in the trilogy. I'm not a huge fan of it but I thought the trilogy melee was easier to use. Each weapon in MEA has its own awkward animation, i only had to learn one awkward animation in the trilogy. Also adept bitch slap for distance was awesome. I really liked normal and heavy melee in the trilogy. I think its normal and aerial in MEa and the aerial is the same no matter what weapon you have.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 18, 2019 23:46:08 GMT
Yeah I'm not great at meleeing either though I do find it a little easier in MEA than in the trilogy. I'm not a huge fan of it but I thought the trilogy melee was easier to use. Each weapon in MEA has its own awkward animation, i only had to learn one awkward animation in the trilogy. Also adept bitch slap for distance was awesome. I really liked normal and heavy melee in the trilogy. I think its normal and aerial in MEa and the aerial is the same no matter what weapon you have. Ithink it's just a matter of taste I just found it slightly easier to use melee in MEA than in the trilogy though personally like in the trilogy I prefer to attack at range. I think it's mostly because of how the shielding works with the Vanguard profile though and the way shields recharge and all that.
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Post by Blast Processor on Feb 19, 2019 0:42:08 GMT
I have a hard time using any other profile than Infiltrator so I have no idea which one might be 'worst.' I don't really like the Biotic Blink though. I prefer the invisi-dodge from Infiltrator. Same, tho Vanguard is my jazz instead. Capn does make a good point about Vanguard kinda being centered around a Charge oriented play style. Personally, my gut says Soldier is the weakest just because I feel its gotten the shaft post ME2.
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Post by melbella on Feb 19, 2019 2:06:26 GMT
I have a hard time using any other profile than Infiltrator so I have no idea which one might be 'worst.' I don't really like the Biotic Blink though. I prefer the invisi-dodge from Infiltrator. Same, tho Vanguard is my jazz instead. Capn does make a good point about Vanguard kinda being centered around a Charge oriented play style. Personally, my gut says Soldier is the weakest just because I feel its gotten the shaft post ME2.
I did Vanguard one PT, basically rotating Charge/Dhan/Hammer for damage. I think I used Explorer profile that time though, not Vanguard.
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Post by capn233 on Feb 19, 2019 2:25:28 GMT
Soldier's marksman focus may not escalate, but it still gives you the big 50% weapon damage bonus as well as the big health bonus. Other than that, it also gives straight weapon damage instead of situational weak point and you can't sleep on the mag size buff either. 2 Shot Isharay... Infiltrator gets a lot more accuracy and stability, but unfortunately most of the best guns don't need a lot of that.[...] This is pretty much what i intended to write, even though it probably did not come over this way.
I still disagree about the caster/combo profiles though. Combos are by far not as powerful as in ME3, but can be chained much more frequent (at least if they are of different primer type). Especially the cryo-explosion engineer felt really powerful (IIRC). Technically the Sentinel profile becomes better than the Engineer past rank 3 or Havarl, but before that the recharge bonus from the drone is definitely noticeable. Though this probably all dependent on the skills in use.
As for the 'burden' of construct bonuses for the engineer: That seems to be the natural step of the engineers 'dronification'. I think its good that at least one profile provides some much needed boosts for the constructs.
My experience, which is pretty insanity centric, is that combos work all right early to mid game, but after you pass something like Level 40, they are trending in the wrong direction. I give the nod to Biotics for being a little better longer than tech combos.
The big issue with them, which is worse for tech than biotics really, is that they can kill debuffs or replace DOT with worse DOT. Take Cryo Beam... it gives a huge bonus to armor damage, but if you detonate it the debuff goes away. Alternatively, if you buff your Incinerate way up, you probably don't want to detonate it either unless it is definitely going to kill the target.
I agree that Construct buffs fit Engineer best, I just don't really like the constructs that much. I wish they would have brought back a good ME2 style drone and gave you good straight Tech damage buffs. There is just something about how POC/Remnant VI flies around that I don't like. Ah well.
Anyway I didn't like my psuedo ME2 Engineer I played in MEA, but Cryo Beam + Invasion may be one of my favorite combinations. Flat out blow up entire buildings of red bars without even setting off a real combo.
Another comment on the Infiltrator profile... while the cloak evades are handy, I don't like that it seems that dead enemies are remaining visible through cover.
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Post by capn233 on Feb 19, 2019 2:30:45 GMT
And I almost forgot.
Really I am not sure there is a huge difference in power between the profiles though. I know in my "Vanguard" run, I swapped between Vanguard, Adept and Sentinel profiles just for the hell of it, and there wasn't a game breaking difference.
Similarly, on my current Infiltrator game, I have run Soldier on it briefly, and it isn't hugely different (although that is with Adrenaline).
Same with Engineer and Explorer on a tech / debuff NG+ character.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 19, 2019 3:57:40 GMT
I have a hard time using any other profile than Infiltrator so I have no idea which one might be 'worst.' I don't really like the Biotic Blink though. I prefer the invisi-dodge from Infiltrator. Same, tho Vanguard is my jazz instead. Capn does make a good point about Vanguard kinda being centered around a Charge oriented play style. Personally, my gut says Soldier is the weakest just because I feel its gotten the shaft post ME2. I think for me the big difference is in ME2 and ME3 it was like one to 2 shots with a shotgun at point blank range to end people so the charge felt solid. In MEA there are a lot of levels I'm unloading like 10 shots into some no shield grunt at point blank range to barely kill them. In ME2/3 I was using charge to regen my shields so dude 3-6 didn;t kill me, in MEA I'm using charge because dude 1 isn't dead yet. To me it seems like level scaling is wonky so its hard to roll with vanguard on a permanent scale. Soldier was in my too easy play through, 1 its easy to break guns and their profile magnifies that and 2 their buff keeps the weapon damage solid at all levels and their style isn't high risk like the vanguard so odd levels where their guns are a bit weaker just mean a few more shots from medium range.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Feb 19, 2019 4:04:45 GMT
Same, tho Vanguard is my jazz instead. Capn does make a good point about Vanguard kinda being centered around a Charge oriented play style. Personally, my gut says Soldier is the weakest just because I feel its gotten the shaft post ME2.
I did Vanguard one PT, basically rotating Charge/Dhan/Hammer for damage. I think I used Explorer profile that time though, not Vanguard.
Yeah I've done a couple of Vanguard playthroughs. I do prefer MEA's Vanguard to the trilogy one though but I do enjoy playing Vanguard in both as I do all 6 classes.
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Post by Blast Processor on Feb 19, 2019 4:24:02 GMT
Same, tho Vanguard is my jazz instead. Capn does make a good point about Vanguard kinda being centered around a Charge oriented play style. Personally, my gut says Soldier is the weakest just because I feel its gotten the shaft post ME2. I think for me the big difference is in ME2 and ME3 it was like one to 2 shots with a shotgun at point blank range to end people so the charge felt solid. In MEA there are a lot of levels I'm unloading like 10 shots into some no shield grunt at point blank range to barely kill them. In ME2/3 I was using charge to regen my shields so dude 3-6 didn;t kill me, in MEA I'm using charge because dude 1 isn't dead yet. To me it seems like level scaling is wonky so its hard to roll with vanguard on a permanent scale. Soldier was in my too easy play through, 1 its easy to break guns and their profile magnifies that and 2 their buff keeps the weapon damage solid at all levels and their style isn't high risk like the vanguard so odd levels where their guns are a bit weaker just mean a few more shots from medium range. I never really did much with the crafting. I used the bare bones Piranha for most of the game, and I didn't think it was much weaker than the ME3 variant. Though what you describe is probably the reason I didn't stray from the Piranha for very long.
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Post by ahglock on Feb 19, 2019 5:28:28 GMT
I think for me the big difference is in ME2 and ME3 it was like one to 2 shots with a shotgun at point blank range to end people so the charge felt solid. In MEA there are a lot of levels I'm unloading like 10 shots into some no shield grunt at point blank range to barely kill them. In ME2/3 I was using charge to regen my shields so dude 3-6 didn;t kill me, in MEA I'm using charge because dude 1 isn't dead yet. To me it seems like level scaling is wonky so its hard to roll with vanguard on a permanent scale. Soldier was in my too easy play through, 1 its easy to break guns and their profile magnifies that and 2 their buff keeps the weapon damage solid at all levels and their style isn't high risk like the vanguard so odd levels where their guns are a bit weaker just mean a few more shots from medium range. I never really did much with the crafting. I used the bare bones Piranha for most of the game, and I didn't think it was much weaker than the ME3 variant. Though what you describe is probably the reason I didn't stray from the Piranha for very long. I use the piranha a lot in MEA. Some levels it’s good. Some levels it’s a lot of shooting to kill a random goon. The dhan seems solid all the time though. The hesh I’m using on a adept currently with autofire and bioconvertor augs. It’s super impressive sounding. But without a lot of combat buffs it’s usually more than 15 shots to kill someone. My soldier build would be doing about double damage per shot. Throw in turbocharge and it’s killing madness. Which reminds me I need to try turbocharge on a vanguard build. I almost always went biotic heavy on my 3 actives.
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Post by opuspace on Feb 21, 2019 6:53:41 GMT
It's hard to say what the least useful profile is for me as I've yet to play them all. I will say Vanguard ranks as the most useful for the biotic cooldowns and the shield recovery for melee hits (which was surprising because I kept expecting Adept to beat this class in cooldown bonuses). Infiltrator is hilarious for the autocloak every time there's a successful kill and Engineer is absurdly quick with the right usage of drones. Still figuring out Sentinel and Adept classes, haven't yet made full use of the Explorer's profile and I'm normally leery about depending on consummables with the Soldier class. I'm sure I may change my mind with abilities like turbocharge and concussive shot.
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Post by Element Zero on Jun 23, 2019 21:23:53 GMT
I'm sweeping into all of these threads months late.
Infiltrator is pretty meh. Soldier is the better gunplay profile.
Explorer is unfocused. It combines some good and some tripe.
Engineer is meh. Adept is meh. Sentinel does combo casters better than each and adds durability.
Soldier, Vanguard and Sentinel are great. They are well designed, providing appropriate, meaningful benefits.
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michaeln7
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by michaeln7 on Jul 2, 2019 4:08:41 GMT
I'm sweeping into all of these threads three months late. Same. I'd have to say Adept is "worst" with Engineer as second-worst. Biotic Echoes does scratch damage at best, and without a way to use squadmate powers and the three-power limit... You either can't get the combos you want or you wish you were using the Sentinel profile. Combat Drone is cool, but when it detonates you lose the tech recharge bonus. The drone just floats there. If it occasionally shocked enemies when active or restored your shields upon detonation, I'd sing a different tune. But as it stands, I find the Infiltrator the better tech expert. To be completely fair, I'm not hating on those profiles/classes. Sometimes I'll change things up from my four-fold-favorite, but I find that there's a reason why my favorites are what they are.
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Post by dazk on Jul 26, 2019 4:13:48 GMT
I have a hard time using any other profile than Infiltrator so I have no idea which one might be 'worst.' I don't really like the Biotic Blink though. I prefer the invisi-dodge from Infiltrator. Same, tho Vanguard is my jazz instead. Capn does make a good point about Vanguard kinda being centered around a Charge oriented play style. Personally, my gut says Soldier is the weakest just because I feel its gotten the shaft post ME2. I actually used the soldier profile the most to start off, with the right armour (weapon bonuses etc.) and weapon build it melts anything using Turbocharge, Tactical Cloak and The Turret. I was able to take down the destroyer/Progenitor (?) in The Remnant Tiller in one clip on Insanity but that was also using an OP'd Valkyrie build. Sentinel is my favourite though using Incinerate, Energy Drain and Overload. Vanguard is my least favourite.
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