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Post by river82 on Mar 21, 2019 3:46:25 GMT
I don't know, obviously this comes down to whether you can appreciate the music or not but i always found the 'metal trailers' to be over the top 'look at me I'm mature' rather then actually being mature. 'Metal' and 'mature' aren't two things that go together. 'Metal' usually goes together with 'rebelistic teen' more Wait what, they've talked about Diablo 4? Schreier reported it, and he's usually accurate: For Fenris, one of those pillars is simple: Embrace the darkness.
“There’s a lot of people who felt like Diablo III got away from what made Diablo Diablo in terms of art style and spell effects,” said a current Blizzard employee, adding that Fenris is aiming to look more like the beloved Diablo II.
Said another: “They want to make this gross, make it dark, [get rid of] anything that was considered cartoony in Diablo III ... Make what people were afraid of in Diablo II, but modern.”www.kotaku.com.au/2018/12/the-past-present-and-future-of-diablo/
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 21, 2019 4:22:42 GMT
'Metal' and 'mature' aren't two things that go together. 'Metal' usually goes together with 'rebelistic teen' more True enough. There are reasons for that though. The feeling of being surrounded by rapid chaotic developments with your heart pumping so fast and loud that you can't hear while throwing yourself into your own rage and feeling of empowerment just so you don't curl up into a terrified ball and die, and embracing it for as long as you possibly can until something knocks you over and forces you to reassess is pretty characteristic of both combat and adolescence, I would say. At the same time, maturity is the awareness and acceptance of and constructive mastery over yourself under such circumstances, rather than a refusal of that responsibility. That's what makes those cinematics so effective, in my mind. Nobody seems cartoonishly enraged or overwhelmed, so the chaotic and hectic tempo seems completely internalized and kept under control. Which is just plain badass. And I'm the furthest thing from a metal fan as well.
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Post by Fredward on Mar 21, 2019 13:49:44 GMT
Do not watch the following video if you don't want to be spoiled on FFXIV ... stuffBut in all seriousness, I'm waiting for a Western RPG team to produce something epic like this: I'd sell my left nut for the battle of Minrathous (assuming there is one but there SHOULD BE) to look like something on this scale.
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 21, 2019 14:28:11 GMT
I'd sell my left nut for the battle of Minrathous (assuming there is one but there SHOULD BE) to look like something on this scale. The Archon(magically amplified): "Magisters, citizens, slaves and blood thralls! Hearken to me! I could teleport you all out of here! But! See that big fire dragon ritual thing that just blew up in all of our faces?! You deal with it! I'll be at my summer house in Nevarra! If there's so much as a scratch on my chair when I get back it better be because each and every one of you perished defending it! Peace out!"
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 21, 2019 17:52:33 GMT
Do not watch the following video if you don't want to be spoiled on FFXIV ... stuffBut in all seriousness, I'm waiting for a Western RPG team to produce something epic like this: I'd sell my left nut for the battle of Minrathous (assuming there is one but there SHOULD BE) to look like something on this scale. To be entirely fair, that’s a cutscene and the real life event had so much lag and people d/cing that it was nigh unplayable. lol But yeah big battle set pieces please.
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Post by duskwanderer on Mar 21, 2019 22:41:38 GMT
The problem with big set battle pieces is loading times. I remember how clunky the battle in Ferelden was in Origins.
Personally, I want to see more missions on rails. BioWare does well with them.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 22, 2019 1:25:37 GMT
'Metal' and 'mature' aren't two things that go together. 'Metal' usually goes together with 'rebelistic teen' more Pfft, whoever wants to be mature when you could have metal and a rebellious adulthood instead?
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Post by river82 on Mar 22, 2019 2:21:44 GMT
'Metal' and 'mature' aren't two things that go together. 'Metal' usually goes together with 'rebelistic teen' more Pfft, whoever wants to be mature when you could have metal and a rebellious adulthood instead? 'Maturity' and being a 'responsible adult' are definitely for suckers
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 22, 2019 10:10:44 GMT
Pfft, whoever wants to be mature when you could have metal and a rebellious adulthood instead? 'Maturity' and being a 'responsible adult' are definitely for suckers *has a meltdown*
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 25, 2019 22:08:55 GMT
I try so hard to keep away from the sort of people who used the term "SJW" unironically that sometimes in my innocence I feel like your aggression is a tad preemptive. But then the universe sees it fit to insert the likes of the following in my way, while I was browsing reviews to try and decide whether Pathfinder: Kingmaker is worth my time and money: So here's my request for what DA4 should feel like: by all means, Bioware, go crazy with the ultrafeminist women, pussy dwarves, and cuck orcs qunari. I want the Codex's screeches to be heard from the four corners of the Internet. In my admittedly limited experience, once you start peeling away the arbitrary nonsense terms like "darkness" and "maturity", you inevitably uncover a writhing mass of prejudice and entitlement. The pattern is well-established across all gaming forums I've ever visited. Feminist women are somehow always poorly written, while subservient sex dolls never are. LGBT and POC characters always wind up being shallow and pandering, while excluding or murdering them is just good old, traditional artistic integrity. I'm not a bigot, I just want games to he good again. The fact that making them good again involves excluding, stereotyping and demonizing minorites is just an unfortunate coincidence. For all of your constant mocking, do you actually have any better ideas? How exactly would you honestly portray a complex, adult story? How would you deal with the true horrors of war, millennia of various oppression and alternating cultures? How would you explore ever changing characters with diverse and often contradictory ideals? How would you respect player choice in what they think would make interesting stories, rather than railroading them into what you think they should be? How would you write a true Role Playing Game?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 25, 2019 23:54:56 GMT
In my admittedly limited experience, once you start peeling away the arbitrary nonsense terms like "darkness" and "maturity", you inevitably uncover a writhing mass of prejudice and entitlement. The pattern is well-established across all gaming forums I've ever visited. Feminist women are somehow always poorly written, while subservient sex dolls never are. LGBT and POC characters always wind up being shallow and pandering, while excluding or murdering them is just good old, traditional artistic integrity. I'm not a bigot, I just want games to he good again. The fact that making them good again involves excluding, stereotyping and demonizing minorites is just an unfortunate coincidence. For all of your constant mocking, do you actually have any better ideas? How exactly would you honestly portray a complex, adult story? How would you deal with the true horrors of war, millennia of various oppression and alternating cultures? How would you explore ever changing characters with diverse and often contradictory ideals? How would you respect player choice in what they think would make interesting stories, rather than railroading them into what you think they should be? How would you write a true Role Playing Game? I probably wouldn't write a roleplaying game, nor am I interested in writing "complex, adult" stories that basically boil down to throwing up paltry excuses to try and justify slaughtering in-game minorities. I don't want "complexity" from media, I want it to tell the fucking truth, especially in regard to the real-world minorities whose suffering BioWare exploits for the entertainment of white cis-hets. Even if I did offer some ideas, terms like "dark", "mature/adult" and "complex" are, as I keep saying, completely fucking arbitrary. They have no working definition in media criticism, and you could dismiss them out of hand for not fitting your understanding of those terms, and I would have to accept that, because these concepts are completely subjective, to the point of making debate completely useless.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 26, 2019 0:20:39 GMT
For all of your constant mocking, do you actually have any better ideas? How exactly would you honestly portray a complex, adult story? How would you deal with the true horrors of war, millennia of various oppression and alternating cultures? How would you explore ever changing characters with diverse and often contradictory ideals? How would you respect player choice in what they think would make interesting stories, rather than railroading them into what you think they should be? How would you write a true Role Playing Game? I probably wouldn't write a roleplaying game, nor am I interested in writing "complex, adult" stories that basically boil down to throwing up paltry excuses to try and justify slaughtering in-game minorities. I don't want "complexity" from media, I want it to tell the fucking truth, especially in regard to the real-world minorities whose suffering BioWare exploits for the entertainment of white cis-hets. Even if I did offer some ideas, terms like "dark", "mature/adult" and "complex" are, as I keep saying, completely fucking arbitrary. They have no working definition in media criticism, and you could dismiss them out of hand for not fitting your understanding of those terms, and I would have to accept that, because these concepts are completely subjective, to the point of making debate completely useless. Tell me are you a student of history? Given how much of history has involved the slaughter and suffering of 'minorities' that is the truth when it comes to history. BioWare's chosen objectives with Dragon Age as a setting SEEMS TO BE taking a society that is very much like our own, historically, with all of its problems and flaws but one that ultimatley has the potential to reform and move past those problems to create a better world.
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Post by Gwydden on Mar 26, 2019 1:06:03 GMT
Tell me are you a student of history? Given how much of history has involved the slaughter and suffering of 'minorities' that is the truth when it comes to history. BioWare's chosen objectives with Dragon Age as a setting SEEMS TO BE taking a society that is very much like our own, historically, with all of its problems and flaws but one that ultimatley has the potential to reform and move past those problems to create a better world. As an actual, bona fide "student of history" (though I reckon that about the most pretentious way to put it), I can tell you that DA doesn't even remotely resemble any historical period. And the "history has included X, therefore X's inclusion is justified" argument is always used so selectively, and so often with declarative statements that are wildly innacurate, simplistic, or just wrong, that it's pretty much a moot point.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 26, 2019 1:20:31 GMT
Tell me are you a student of history? Given how much of history has involved the slaughter and suffering of 'minorities' that is the truth when it comes to history. BioWare's chosen objectives with Dragon Age as a setting SEEMS TO BE taking a society that is very much like our own, historically, with all of its problems and flaws but one that ultimatley has the potential to reform and move past those problems to create a better world. As an actual, bona fide "student of history" (though I reckon that about the most pretentious way to put it), I can tell you that DA doesn't even remotely resemble any historical period. And the "history has included X, therefore X's inclusion is justified" argument is always used so selectively, and so often with declarative statements that are wildly innacurate, simplistic, or just wrong, that it's pretty much a moot point. Meh you might have a different (or better) read of history then I do but my point was more in broad strokes of the matter. Minorities the world over have always suffered no matter the historical period that we are involved in, and medeval Europe...which DA seems to have the closest relationship to that historical period...minority groups suffered tremendously at the hands of those in power. Which Pessimist over there wants his fiction to tell 'the truth' and while it probably is my mistake to assume what kind of truth he wants in his game that is the historical truth humanity often finds itself in. In fact as a practical excercise when people refer to 'dark' fiction or dark fantasy especially it is fantasy which attempts to emulate the various historical realities at the time in terms of things like poverty, racism, and the various other problems humanity faced at any given time. That Medeval Europe, the kind of analogue for a lot of our fantasy genre of the type of Dragon Age, wasn't a nice place and we shouldn't try and pretty it up. As far as it goes though, again my read of history, while DA does emulate a lot of the bigotry we find at that historical time period it did eventually give rise to the Reneisance, religious growth, and eventually the 'enlightenment' and the society we find ourselves in today...for good or ill.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Mar 26, 2019 1:25:15 GMT
For all of your constant mocking, do you actually have any better ideas? How exactly would you honestly portray a complex, adult story? How would you deal with the true horrors of war, millennia of various oppression and alternating cultures? How would you explore ever changing characters with diverse and often contradictory ideals? How would you respect player choice in what they think would make interesting stories, rather than railroading them into what you think they should be? How would you write a true Role Playing Game? I probably wouldn't write a roleplaying game, nor am I interested in writing "complex, adult" stories that basically boil down to throwing up paltry excuses to try and justify slaughtering in-game minorities. Yes, all the adult story telling in fantasy games inevitably boils down to this.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 26, 2019 2:05:35 GMT
I probably wouldn't write a roleplaying game, nor am I interested in writing "complex, adult" stories that basically boil down to throwing up paltry excuses to try and justify slaughtering in-game minorities. Yes, all the adult story telling in fantasy games inevitably boils down to this. I don't believe "adult" storytelling really exists. Hence why I put it in quotes to begin with. You believe in that concept, I don't.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 26, 2019 2:25:55 GMT
Yes, all the adult story telling in fantasy games inevitably boils down to this. I don't believe "adult" storytelling really exists. Hence why I put it in quotes to begin with. You believe in that concept, I don't. is all stories suitable for all audiences then? Would you show Battlestar galactica or Torchwood to a Toddler? Would you expect a two year old to appreciate the themes of Hamlet?
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 26, 2019 2:57:35 GMT
I don't believe "adult" storytelling really exists. Hence why I put it in quotes to begin with. You believe in that concept, I don't. is all stories suitable for all audiences then? Would you show Battlestar galactica or Torchwood to a Toddler? Would you expect a two year old to appreciate the themes of Hamlet? Toddlers barely understand human speech, so I have no problem with them being in the room while a violent movie that they aren't watching and won't understand just happens to be playing. Whether or not they appreciate "the themes" is irrelevent. The issue is whether or not the face value content is appropriate, and considering that not so long ago in human history, we were perfectly comfortable with making young children work in coal mines and brothels, I'd argue that they are more resilient than fear-mongering helicopter parents would have you believe, and I have no problem with allowing even a fairly young child to watch a film with violent or sexual content, as long as one takes the time to give them proper context. I have known children as young as 7 to seek out texts like 1984 and read them entirely on their own, and approach their parents afterwards with questions. I'd go so far as to say they even sometimes have better insight into a text than some adults, and I have yet to see any evidence of lasting harm. I was, myself encouraged to read "adult" literature like Pride and Prejudice and the Count of Monte Cristo before I even reached my teens. Are children susceptible to internalization of harmful messages in media? Yes, absolutely. But no more so than the many, many adults who have been funneled into white supremacist ideology by Fox News and Youtube algorithms. My issue with Dragon Age is not and has never been the amount of violence or sexual content, though I have my own personal threshold at which point I would cease to enjoy it. It has always been their pathetic whataboutism's they use to try and obfuscate issues like bigotry, oppression and colonisation, rather than subject them to any sort of meaningful analysis, choosing instead to throw up their hands and pretend like they don't know what the answer is, when they damn well do. And we see the real-world effects of this bullshit within this very forum, where posters freely try to drum up anger against gay/female/poc players, by claiming that we are somehow influencing BioWare to exclude their "traditional audience", when nothing could be further from the truth. Meanwhile, calling out this homophobic concern-trolling for what it is gets you a warning, or the entire discussion shut down, and the bigots rampage on, unhindered.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 26, 2019 3:57:02 GMT
I don't think you're using "whataboutism" correctly there.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Mar 26, 2019 4:14:30 GMT
is all stories suitable for all audiences then? Would you show Battlestar galactica or Torchwood to a Toddler? Would you expect a two year old to appreciate the themes of Hamlet? Toddlers barely understand human speech, so I have no problem with them being in the room while a violent movie that they aren't watching and won't understand just happens to be playing. Whether or not they appreciate "the themes" is irrelevent. The issue is whether or not the face value content is appropriate, and considering that not so long ago in human history, we were perfectly comfortable with making young children work in coal mines and brothels, I'd argue that they are more resilient than fear-mongering helicopter parents would have you believe, and I have no problem with allowing even a fairly young child to watch a film with violent or sexual content, as long as one takes the time to give them proper context. I have known children as young as 7 to seek out texts like 1984 and read them entirely on their own, and approach their parents afterwards with questions. I'd go so far as to say they even sometimes have better insight into a text than some adults, and I have yet to see any evidence of lasting harm. I was, myself encouraged to read "adult" literature like Pride and Prejudice and the Count of Monte Cristo before I even reached my teens. Are children susceptible to internalization of harmful messages in media? Yes, absolutely. But no more so than the many, many adults who have been funneled into white supremacist ideology by Fox News and Youtube algorithms. My issue with Dragon Age is not and has never been the amount of violence or sexual content, though I have my own personal threshold at which point I would cease to enjoy it. It has always been their pathetic whataboutism's they use to try and obfuscate issues like bigotry, oppression and colonisation, rather than subject them to any sort of meaningful analysis, choosing instead to throw up their hands and pretend like they don't know what the answer is, when they damn well do. And we see the real-world effects of this bullshit within this very forum, where posters freely try to drum up anger against gay/female/poc players, by claiming that we are somehow influencing BioWare to exclude their "traditional audience", when nothing could be further from the truth. Meanwhile, calling out this homophobic concern-trolling for what it is gets you a warning, or the entire discussion shut down, and the bigots rampage on, unhindered. You're literally saying the DA team is obligated to come down on the 'right' side whenever they depict social issues. This is absurd. They're just story elements. They aren't trying to write a progressive bible for us all to live by. They aren't trying to moralize. It is truly bizarre how thoroughly you blend your own politics with a work of fiction. Also, your apocalyptic view of this forum having issues with bigotry is in your head.
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Post by alanc9 on Mar 26, 2019 4:39:56 GMT
Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how the DA team wasn't actually on the progressive bible side.
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Post by colfoley on Mar 26, 2019 4:57:25 GMT
Toddlers barely understand human speech, so I have no problem with them being in the room while a violent movie that they aren't watching and won't understand just happens to be playing. Whether or not they appreciate "the themes" is irrelevent. The issue is whether or not the face value content is appropriate, and considering that not so long ago in human history, we were perfectly comfortable with making young children work in coal mines and brothels, I'd argue that they are more resilient than fear-mongering helicopter parents would have you believe, and I have no problem with allowing even a fairly young child to watch a film with violent or sexual content, as long as one takes the time to give them proper context. I have known children as young as 7 to seek out texts like 1984 and read them entirely on their own, and approach their parents afterwards with questions. I'd go so far as to say they even sometimes have better insight into a text than some adults, and I have yet to see any evidence of lasting harm. I was, myself encouraged to read "adult" literature like Pride and Prejudice and the Count of Monte Cristo before I even reached my teens. Are children susceptible to internalization of harmful messages in media? Yes, absolutely. But no more so than the many, many adults who have been funneled into white supremacist ideology by Fox News and Youtube algorithms. My issue with Dragon Age is not and has never been the amount of violence or sexual content, though I have my own personal threshold at which point I would cease to enjoy it. It has always been their pathetic whataboutism's they use to try and obfuscate issues like bigotry, oppression and colonisation, rather than subject them to any sort of meaningful analysis, choosing instead to throw up their hands and pretend like they don't know what the answer is, when they damn well do. And we see the real-world effects of this bullshit within this very forum, where posters freely try to drum up anger against gay/female/poc players, by claiming that we are somehow influencing BioWare to exclude their "traditional audience", when nothing could be further from the truth. Meanwhile, calling out this homophobic concern-trolling for what it is gets you a warning, or the entire discussion shut down, and the bigots rampage on, unhindered. You're literally saying the DA team is obligated to come down on the 'right' side whenever they depict social issues. This is absurd. They're just story elements. They aren't trying to write a progressive bible for us all to live by. They aren't trying to moralize. It is truly bizarre how thoroughly you blend your own politics with a work of fiction. Also, your apocalyptic view of this forum having issues with bigotry is in your head. Indeed. I don't know how anyone can use that as a standard either since there are such things as good and evil characters in any narrative. And their are good characters that can make mistakes but then there are also evil characters that can behave virtuously from time to time. And history is just as complicated. If anyone wants 'truth in fiction' then they have to realize that sometimes 'minority groups' also make mistakes. Its not white washing, its not justification, but it does help make issues more complicated then 'minority good' 'dominant majority bad'. Hell, I'm still trying to figure out how the DA team wasn't actually on the progressive bible side. As my personal take on the subject while BioWare is setting up a world for Dragon Age where the solutions are often found in the past. In fact Thedas seems to be very interested as a whole with the past in general. While the series isn't finished so maybe they will entirely abandon this course at the end but as it stands now it seems like Dragon Age is not consistent with what I understand progressive orthodoxy to be, whatever their individual politics are.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Mar 26, 2019 5:10:57 GMT
Toddlers barely understand human speech, so I have no problem with them being in the room while a violent movie that they aren't watching and won't understand just happens to be playing. Whether or not they appreciate "the themes" is irrelevent. The issue is whether or not the face value content is appropriate, and considering that not so long ago in human history, we were perfectly comfortable with making young children work in coal mines and brothels, I'd argue that they are more resilient than fear-mongering helicopter parents would have you believe, and I have no problem with allowing even a fairly young child to watch a film with violent or sexual content, as long as one takes the time to give them proper context. I have known children as young as 7 to seek out texts like 1984 and read them entirely on their own, and approach their parents afterwards with questions. I'd go so far as to say they even sometimes have better insight into a text than some adults, and I have yet to see any evidence of lasting harm. I was, myself encouraged to read "adult" literature like Pride and Prejudice and the Count of Monte Cristo before I even reached my teens. Are children susceptible to internalization of harmful messages in media? Yes, absolutely. But no more so than the many, many adults who have been funneled into white supremacist ideology by Fox News and Youtube algorithms. My issue with Dragon Age is not and has never been the amount of violence or sexual content, though I have my own personal threshold at which point I would cease to enjoy it. It has always been their pathetic whataboutism's they use to try and obfuscate issues like bigotry, oppression and colonisation, rather than subject them to any sort of meaningful analysis, choosing instead to throw up their hands and pretend like they don't know what the answer is, when they damn well do. And we see the real-world effects of this bullshit within this very forum, where posters freely try to drum up anger against gay/female/poc players, by claiming that we are somehow influencing BioWare to exclude their "traditional audience", when nothing could be further from the truth. Meanwhile, calling out this homophobic concern-trolling for what it is gets you a warning, or the entire discussion shut down, and the bigots rampage on, unhindered. You're literally saying the DA team is obligated to come down on the 'right' side whenever they depict social issues. This is absurd. They're just story elements. They aren't trying to write a progressive bible for us all to live by. They aren't trying to moralize. It is truly bizarre how thoroughly you blend your own politics with a work of fiction. Also, your apocalyptic view of this forum having issues with bigotry is in your head. Well bigots wouldn't perceive a problem with bigotry, now would they. Of course it's "in my head". The minority communities who suffer are the ones who get to decide what bigotry looks like.
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Mar 26, 2019 5:57:29 GMT
I don't believe "adult" storytelling really exists. Hence why I put it in quotes to begin with. You believe in that concept, I don't. is all stories suitable for all audiences then? Would you show Battlestar galactica or Torchwood to a Toddler? Would you expect a two year old to appreciate the themes of Hamlet? What, you didn’t?
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Post by slimgrin727 on Mar 26, 2019 6:03:06 GMT
You're literally saying the DA team is obligated to come down on the 'right' side whenever they depict social issues. This is absurd. They're just story elements. They aren't trying to write a progressive bible for us all to live by. They aren't trying to moralize. It is truly bizarre how thoroughly you blend your own politics with a work of fiction. Also, your apocalyptic view of this forum having issues with bigotry is in your head. Well bigots wouldn't perceive a problem with bigotry, now would they. Of course it's "in my head". The minority communities who suffer are the ones who get to decide what bigotry looks like. 31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_marq5x4yKA1rq6q99o1_400.gifI'll be sure tell the beleaguered elves about their real world suffering.
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