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Post by Iddy on Feb 19, 2019 13:54:02 GMT
I was just thinking about the companions' character arc in each game. In DA2, almost every companion will go through some kind of growth either through rivalry or friendship.
In DAI, the companions face personal struggles but ultimately remain the same person they were when you first met. Even Origins, for all the praise it gets, isn't a whole lot better. The only ones who seem to evolve over the course of the game are Alistair (softening/hardening), Morrigan (opening herself to love/friendship and being vulnerable) and Leliana (softening/hardening).
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Feb 19, 2019 15:03:45 GMT
^ you forget Zevran's personal growth  though his is a bit similar to Morrigan in terms of opening up to love and/or friendship I agree though, most of the companions in DA2 (and imo in Origins as well) seem to make some sort of growth throughout the game the only one I can think of in Inquisition is perhaps Iron Bull?  I mean, you only find out during Trespasser what his growth meant for him (and the Inquisitor) but it's a type of growth nevertheless
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Post by Catilina on Feb 19, 2019 16:52:10 GMT
Probably because of the DA2 companions were together ~7 years ago, while the others spent together less time.
But Zevran, Morrigan absolutely change.
Fenris doesn't really grew, he freed by himself and Hawke and healed. I don't like to see that Anders able to lose his faith and doesn't able to take the responsibility in rivalry. I also don't like, that Merrill smashes the Eluvian (her work!), but I love she finds a new purpose. I like Isabela's change. Aveline only in rivalry changes (questions herself, and able to run away, if Hawke doesn't encourage her again – I like her rivalry, but I don't know, she would run away...), just like Anders and Merrill. Varric doesn't change, whatever happens – what makes sense.
In DAI: Cole... And Dorian encourage himself, to go back to Tevinter, to change his Homeland, and he thinks, the Inquisitor inspired him. But no one really changes – and I don't think that would make sense. As I felt, they're rather just co-workers.
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 14, 2019 10:38:50 GMT
Yes and no. DA2 spans a decade, and people can change a lot over a period like that given a particular consistent influence in their lives.
DAO spans a year, more or less. That's time enough to learn one important lesson about life, if not wholly implement it into the way you view the world, in my experience.
Morrigan learning that being open to friendship isn't necessarily a trap, Alistair realizing he's an irresponsible mess and needs to start shaping up, and Sten deciding that select few individuals truly worthy of respect may exist outside his culture and experience all fall within the amount of development that I would call appropriate for grown men and women suddenly exposed to new influences over the course of a year.
And Wynne, Oghren and Zevran all have much more varied experience and are more set in their ways. There's a limit to how much you can expect such people to change in such a short time-frame. And Leliana is clearly in the middle of an existential crisis that doesn't resolve until well into the timeline of DA2.
I agree that there's proportionately less development in Inquisition, but the companions spend that game working together in a much bigger and more structured, and less intimate, framework than in the previous games. Maybe there just isn't time and space to mess around with everyone else's lifestyles. And again we're talking about extremely well-traveled and experienced people who have already learned the harshest lessons they were going to. Frankly, the most malleable character, Leliana again, comes off as borderline unstable for being so.
If the next game spans a longer time-frame like DA2 and allows for more varied character development then I'm all for that. In fact I'd love it. But I think it rings hollow if you're allowed to radically change the way a character thinks over a couple of weeks or months, because that just doesn't happen.
In Mass Effect for example, most of the squad-mates' actual development happens off-screen in the months and years between games as a consequence of the lessons they learn in-game or on their own, rather than in the middle of the given crisis or between one mission and another. And that trilogy in its entirety spans about a third of the time DA2 does.
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Post by Sah291 on Mar 25, 2019 15:25:31 GMT
I agree. Part of it just down to the setting I think. DAO and DAI (and likely DA4) have these big overarching plots where the group is focused on saving the world from an immediate threat. Everyone's personal problems seem smaller in comparison.
DA2 felt almost like a spin off or side story in a way, as it's focused on a single city with a tight knit group of companions over a number of years. Major world changing events don't kick off until the end. So there was a lot of freedom there to focus on character development and each individual arc feels important, relative to the kind of problems Hawke is dealing with as a protagonist.
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Post by obbie1984 on Oct 31, 2020 21:23:40 GMT
I agree and disagree. Some of DAO characters are really great and DA2 cannot match them. But this is really only Morrigan and Alistair. These two characters are quite varied, layered, and complex. And in Alistair's case, he has many outcomes.
If you are comparing it to Inquisition, I completely agree. I think outside of Dorian and Viviene, all the characters in DAI were dull as hell. I didn't care about the characters or the politics in DAI. When most characters spoke, all I heard was "blah blah blah." I also disliked some of the characters tropes. Dorian being shunned for being gay and Cassandra being a tough on the outside but hopeless romantic on the inside didn't make them interesting. I also found that romances were very weak as a straight male character.
DA2 has many issues, but I mostly found the characters entertaining. Their banter together made them feel more believable. I can completely see Hawke, Fenris, and Varric sitting down for a drink at the hanged man. I can buy Isabela and Merill becoming great friends. I also get Isabela and Aveline's rivalry. The characters felt more like a group. Carver also felt believable as a brother, etc. I don't think all character develop as well as I'd like. Isabela does something pretty messed up and doesn't suffer much consequences. But I'll take DA2 characters over boring DAI any day.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 2, 2020 9:20:59 GMT
I agree that DA2 characters probably grow the most as a whole, but as others explained already, this is probably more obvious because of the longer time period. It would have been unrealistic, if the characters hadn't grown over the years. DAO on the other hand follows the heroes only for a year, so it make sense, that you don't see that much change in characters. The most obvious for me there are Zevran starting to trust and love and finding a new goal on life and Sten rrealising, that there are good people outside his religion/culture.
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