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Post by Trilobite Derby on Apr 2, 2019 17:29:29 GMT
I'm just saying. If the question is "Who is the better biotic without hardware", the answer is Jack's varren. Because Shepard and Ryder can do exactly the same thing without their respective implants. Which is bupkis. Now, if you want to throw caveats around like "Well, we can include Shepard's amps, but not Ryder's brain-buddy, oh, and gameplay doesn't count" to the point where you get the answer you want, peachy. And since we never see Ryder Jr without SAM, and don't know what biotic implant they had before and how it stacks up against Shepard's Special Forces hardware, it's not like we have a baseline to measure against. So I'm fairly happy with my "But what can I biotically punch to death" metric. Did you not play the very first mission in Andromeda as a Biotic? SAM is integrated with Ryder only after his father's death. By lore, If Ryder is a biotic he has an implant by default if he uses biotics for combat. L5n if he's a Vanguard or L5x if he's an adept, same as Shepard. Lol someone does not know ME lore. You're not wrong - but at that point, Ryder has a SAM connection (down at the moment), like all members of the pathfinder team, and probably some hardware to go with it. And since Ryder can hover in that mission... I GUESS THAT SOLVES IT.
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Post by Son of Dorn on Apr 2, 2019 18:04:06 GMT
In the immortal words of Cable (that has been slightly altered): Bionics is for pussies!
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Apr 2, 2019 19:08:25 GMT
Did you not play the very first mission in Andromeda as a Biotic? SAM is integrated with Ryder only after his father's death. By lore, If Ryder is a biotic he has an implant by default if he uses biotics for combat. L5n if he's a Vanguard or L5x if he's an adept, same as Shepard. Lol someone does not know ME lore. You're not wrong - but at that point, Ryder has a SAM connection (down at the moment), like all members of the pathfinder team, and probably some hardware to go with it. And since Ryder can hover in that mission... I GUESS THAT SOLVES IT. Was it biotic flight before that or just his jet pack. Far as I know until he can load profiles his movement isn’t biotic. Though again if jet packs were in ME3 adept Shepard would have biotic jet packs just like how his shields become barriers when biotic.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2019 20:01:49 GMT
Did you not play the very first mission in Andromeda as a Biotic? SAM is integrated with Ryder only after his father's death. By lore, If Ryder is a biotic he has an implant by default if he uses biotics for combat. L5n if he's a Vanguard or L5x if he's an adept, same as Shepard. Lol someone does not know ME lore. You're not wrong - but at that point, Ryder has a SAM connection (down at the moment), like all members of the pathfinder team, and probably some hardware to go with it. And since Ryder can hover in that mission... I GUESS THAT SOLVES IT. The basic SAM connection that the members of the pathfinder team have does not enhance the person's physiology. SAM indicates to Ryder that's something he can now do for him/her after Ryder Sr. transferred "pathfinder authority" to him/her. The Ryder twins both have the biotic implants designed by Ellen Ryder. Her implants enable a SAM connection, but the implants themselves are not a part of SAM. Each Ark had their own SAM, but the Hyperion's SAM was the most fully developed SAM and the only one that had the ability to enhance the pathfinder's physiology... and only the pathfinder's physiology.
So, if you start the game with a biotic, those biotic skills are running through an implant just the same as a biotic Shepard's are. To compare, though, you'd have to compare the skills at the earliest level of ME1 - Shepard on Eden Prime vs. Ryder on Habitat 7. The only other opportunity to compare is at the end of the game since same is disconnected by Archon for the final mission. Then you could compare endgame skill levels, but I would say it would be ME1 endgame vs. ME:A endgame since the Initiative left the galaxy before Shepard was modified by Cerberus in ME2.
I am also of the opinion that the comparison should be made using only the Bluewire I amp for either comparison (early ME1 or endgame ME1) since SAM substitutes for the amp and we've chosen moments in the game where SAM's amplifications are not available. That all leaves me with little doubt that Ryder is the more powerful biotic... particularly since he/she learns to to switch out skills in groups of 3 on the fly using SAM (i.e. profiles), but can still do that during the endgame without SAM and without even any biotic amp whatsoever.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Apr 2, 2019 20:46:49 GMT
Base profile if you choose adept (unless I'm misremembering-- I usually go scrapper).
Whereas Shepard still can't float.
...And yeah, in case it wasn't obvious, I don't think there's a straightforward answer to this (nor is there intended to be one). Ryder is a lot younger and greener than Shepard, with a very different toolset for problem solving, including the brain buddy. And they're in different games, with different gameplay. And neither Ryder nor Shepard are explicitly shown throwing around a lot of biotic power in cutscenes (Shep's barriers and biotic punches sneak in, as well as a few lines referencing the chosen class in ME1 and 3), so I don't think either of them are intended to be powerhouses on the level of Samara or Cora.
But I don't think Ryder and the gimmick that makes Ryder your player character should just be dismissed out of hand. Especially while Shepard's extra hardware and training
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Post by michaeln7 on Apr 12, 2019 19:20:51 GMT
Tough question.
Ryder and SAM are special in the sense that they are a human/AI hybrid that WORKS. Said bond allows for seamless transition between abilities which can gain different functions based on the active Profile.
Shepard is only biotic in 3 out 6 possibilities, and even so, can't change them later.
I think it's also worth noting that biotics are very new to Heleus. The Kett want to capture the asari because of that. So perhaps biotics feel more powerful there because very few have them.
In all fairness, the game mechanics are different enough between games that I don't know that this question can be objectively answered.
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Post by Noxluxe on May 22, 2019 4:04:45 GMT
I'd venture that Ryder is technically the more powerful biotic with SAM there to calculate and optimize their mass effect fields, but that Shepard has ten times the training and a hundred times more experience fighting and killing with theirs. In anything but a pure biotic armwrestling contest, my money would be on Shepard any day of the week.
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Post by burningcherry on May 22, 2019 17:10:21 GMT
I never thought about Shepard as an incredibly powerful biotic, rather someone who uses their potential with unparalleled efficiency. With enough SAM, Ryder could stuff more eezo in their nerves than Shepard, I'm sure.
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Post by ArabianIGoggles on May 24, 2019 16:27:56 GMT
Ryder is wet teenage noodle. I was thinking he was in his early twenties, like 23. Not sure where I heard that, or if it's even accurate.
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Post by capn233 on May 24, 2019 21:37:07 GMT
Ryder is wet teenage noodle. I was thinking he was in his early twenties, like 23. Not sure where I heard that, or if it's even accurate. I looked it up. Ryder was born in 2163. So the twins are actually more like 656 years old when you start the first mission.
(~22yo when the Arks leave in 2185)
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Post by Noxluxe on May 27, 2019 10:06:05 GMT
I was thinking he was in his early twenties, like 23. Not sure where I heard that, or if it's even accurate. I looked it up. Ryder was born in 2163. So the twins are actually more like 656 years old when you start the first mission.
(~22yo when the Arks leave in 2185) The very first thing that turned me off about Andromeda was Ryder being an overgrown teenager. Even Shepard's age of 29-31 was kinda pushing it for such a decorated and highly trained solider, even one who enlisted at 18. In my head, Shepard is in her mid-thirties at the least and Ryder is an unusually mature 26-yearold who is really conscious of her youth throughout the game.
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Post by Dukemon on Dec 31, 2019 1:06:29 GMT
I guess Shepard and Ryder have + - 5 years between their ages. Even I would bet Ryder is around 24 - 26. Who knows why Alliance used him only as bouncer. However, regarding the biotic question you could have in mind th work from Elen. During her research she was exposed by eezo and I guess not a little bit. We know nothing about the Pregnancy from Shepard, but Ryder could absorbed it like a sponge. Shepard unlikely. edit: Did not say it. When Kaidan show off with his Biotic powers during Citadel DLC, I misse the oppertunity that Shepard could take his moment and say he does it, too, if the power is selected. Or he has learned to hack organics.
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Post by sjsharp2010 on Jan 3, 2020 13:37:35 GMT
Ryder is wet teenage noodle. I was thinking he was in his early twenties, like 23. Not sure where I heard that, or if it's even accurate. Ryder is 22 so you aer kind of right. Whilst the yd olac kexperienc eand have a wet behind the ears feel about them this was really the firstmission they've ever been in charge of. So the wet behind the ears vibe the game had was never much of a problem to me.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Jan 5, 2020 1:23:08 GMT
Since this rose from its grave, I'll stand by what I said initially. There is no way to determine this as any differences we see comes down to changes in game mechanics. Whether its shepherds better recharge time, him using a GCD vs individual cool downs, him having 5 powers loaded at once vs 3 that can sub out, jet packs existing, the much more powerful biotic explosion scaling of ME3. All of those things are effected by the game mechanic changes and not the story/lore behind the characters abilities.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 14, 2020 22:30:16 GMT
To think about it all...Shep knows how to use "Warp" - one of the most powerful and useful abilities in ME. Ryder according to the game and for some strange reasons of removing it from the game MEA, doesn't know it. So, imo, Shep will just use "Warp + double - throw" and Ryder is finished.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 14, 2020 23:20:28 GMT
To think about it all...Shep knows how to use "Warp" - one of the most powerful and useful abilities in ME. Ryder according to the game and for some strange reasons of removing it from the game MEA, doesn't know it. So, imo, Shep will just use "Warp + double - throw" and Ryder is finished. ...and Ryder can effectively do a warp/throw combo in one shot by throwing out a Vortex (Annihilation Field Rank 6) and also prime Shepard for a combo detonation with his next shot.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Jan 14, 2020 23:21:10 GMT
To think about it all...Shep knows how to use "Warp" - one of the most powerful and useful abilities in ME. Ryder according to the game and for some strange reasons of removing it from the game MEA, doesn't know it. So, imo, Shep will just use "Warp + double - throw" and Ryder is finished. Eh. They added warp back in as a late MP thing. Too much work to add it back into SP for a free update. It’s just a game mechanic change. They went with lance for the warp like effect. Lance is lame but that is what they did. I think it’s called lance. The lame throw a weak ball animation. How bad was Ryder mocked in ball games with that throwing arm.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 14, 2020 23:43:34 GMT
...and Ryder can effectively do a warp/throw combo in one shot by throwing out a Vortex (Annihilation Field Rank 6) and also prime Shepard for a combo detonation with his next shot. ...yeah, only warp+ double-throw is used form a distance. Annihilation Field will work of course, only the distance matters. I mentioned a combo used from a disnatce. Lance is lame but that is what they did Lance misses a lot, but very good for combos with AnF for a Guardian = useful as hell. Anyway, could be many possibilities, incl using claymore like people wrote in the beginning: mine was meant to be used from a distance - so Ryder is dead. If Ryder is close and using AnF + throw e.g. - Shepard is dead.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 15, 2020 0:02:38 GMT
...and Ryder can effectively do a warp/throw combo in one shot by throwing out a Vortex (Annihilation Field Rank 6) and also prime Shepard for a combo detonation with his next shot. ...yeah, only warp+ double-throw is used form a distance. Annihilation Field will work of course, only the distance matters. I mentioned a combo used from a disnatce. Lance is lame but that is what they did Lance misses a lot, but very good for combos with AnF for a Guardian = useful as hell. Anyway, could be many possibilities, incl using claymore like people wrote in the beginning: mine was meant to be used from a distance - so Ryder is dead. If Ryder is close and using AnF + throw e.g. - Shepard is dead. Shepard also proved that warp thrown from a distance is also fairly easy to dodge. AnF, because it's thrown closer in and has quite a large AoE, isn't. Ryder's Shockwave is also better than any shockwave they had in ME2 or ME3.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 15, 2020 0:19:39 GMT
Shepard also proved that warp thrown from a distance is also fairly easy to dodge. AnF, because it's thrown closer in and has quite a large AoE, isn't. CD is low, use warp/area reave again - the game proved the 1st time can dodge, the second time - bingo + fast CD + crusader + n7 traning + hell of number of combats + Shep also can move and avoide priming by AnF + priming by AnF will effect Shepard of course but lots of combats and practice = Shep can resist some other abilitues (the game proved it as well) and use whatever he/she likes, including crusader HS.
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Post by Sonya on Jan 15, 2020 0:26:45 GMT
Ryder's Shockwave is also better than any shockwave they had in ME2 or ME3. aha, in this case better use lash, or dominate - it is even better as the game proved. And very useful. And after that claymore or crusader. Or even Javelin - CD is fast anyway.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jan 26, 2020 18:50:15 GMT
I could do more with backlash, to be honest.
Fully upgraded, that thing sends rockets flying back.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
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Post by ahglock on Jan 26, 2020 20:01:33 GMT
I could do more with backlash, to be honest. Fully upgraded, that thing sends rockets flying back. It always broke in a second for me even fully upgraded. I’d rather avoid the missile and just kill them.
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Post by Trilobite Derby on Jan 27, 2020 3:21:06 GMT
I could do more with backlash, to be honest. Fully upgraded, that thing sends rockets flying back. It always broke in a second for me even fully upgraded. I’d rather avoid the missile and just kill them. I am getting the impression that everyone else plays a more sensible biotic than I do. I like my vanguards on insanity, and I spend a lot of time in melee range. I really liked backlash because it could bat stuff off Ryder while you waited for charge to be back up. Both Jane and Sarah were brawlers for my favorite playthroughs, which probably colors my perceptions. I still think you can get away with more as Ryder, and the narrative makes some effort to note your unusual "potential" as a biotic via the profile thing... But neither Shepard nor Ryder seem intended to be major powerhouses, biotically. ...Now gameplaywise, Mass Effect 2 Sentinel Shepard, Immortal Diety of 'Splosions is probably the scariest.
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Post by ahglock on Jan 27, 2020 5:22:55 GMT
It always broke in a second for me even fully upgraded. I’d rather avoid the missile and just kill them. I am getting the impression that everyone else plays a more sensible biotic than I do. I like my vanguards on insanity, and I spend a lot of time in melee range. I really liked backlash because it could bat stuff off Ryder while you waited for charge to be back up. Both Jane and Sarah were brawlers for my favorite playthroughs, which probably colors my perceptions. I still think you can get away with more as Ryder, and the narrative makes some effort to note your unusual "potential" as a biotic via the profile thing... But neither Shepard nor Ryder seem intended to be major powerhouses, biotically. ...Now gameplaywise, Mass Effect 2 Sentinel Shepard, Immortal Diety of 'Splosions is probably the scariest. At the right recharge speed of charge I can see it lasting long enough to recharge charge. Because it literally only needs to last a second. I play more adept style and a second is almost pointless compared to my other options. .
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