inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,627
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 15, 2020 16:54:01 GMT
MEA characters > MET characters You tell 'em, bro!
|
|
inherit
4588
0
Sept 27, 2024 19:24:18 GMT
2,936
therevanchist25
1,770
Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
|
Post by therevanchist25 on Nov 15, 2020 18:18:28 GMT
Remember WHY they did those cameos? Because people wasn't accepting TNG. And TNG was actually really, really good. And yes, there was a lot of silly stuff in it and filler shit as well, true, but the show was great, the cast was great and the crew was great. What chances does Bioware have of pulling something like that off? Their creative ideas have not been the most inspirational, as of late. Season 1 and most of Season 2 of TNG was in fact, NOT good. It wasn't until Q Who, or even Best of Both Worlds, until people both accepted the Show, and the quality was finally consistent. Sure, Season 1 and 2 has some amazing episodes in it. But they are hardly, what I would consider stellar seasons.
|
|
inherit
1853
0
Sept 27, 2024 17:42:44 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Nov 15, 2020 19:26:42 GMT
MEA characters > MET characte The point is not what you (or me) think or like. de gustibus non est disputandum.we can happily believe that britney spears > mozart, that assassins creed origins > red dead redemption 2, iron man > the godfather.. It is totally subjective. But the point is that the vast majority of those who played ME loved the old trilogy and its characters (except the ending, perhaps) Note that I'm not taling about the hardcore half-crazy fans like us here: we are not a reliable sample. I talk about the generic player, the sympathizer, the unexalted fan. Most of them would probably be super-happy, after 10 years, to return to the milky way, see the citadel, the normandy, explore new places they've heard, if the game shows good quality. While most of them believes (rightly in my opinion, but is subjective) that andromeda as a game and its characters are little more than a parody, a joke, a burlesque, caricatures to forget as soon as possible... or at best that was something uninteresting and not so worth playing. Andromeda was a failure. A resounding, definitive disaster. This is not subjective. This is reality. When you say "Mass Effect", people think " ah yes, the sci-fi masterpiece of old bioware...". When you say "Adromeda", people think about sara ryder ugly face. It is as simple as that. What madness, what powerful pride demon, can force bioware to even consider persevering in such a disaster?!?
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,627
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 15, 2020 19:29:40 GMT
Season 1 and most of Season 2 of TNG was in fact, NOT good. It wasn't until Q Who, or even Best of Both Worlds, until people both accepted the Show, and the quality was finally consistent. Sure, Season 1 and 2 has some amazing episodes in it. But they are hardly, what I would consider stellar seasons. That's still a hell of a lot more than some Bioware titles got.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Sept 30, 2024 12:12:01 GMT
31,554
Hanako Ikezawa
22,978
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 15, 2020 19:57:08 GMT
MEA characters > MET characte The point is not what you (or me) think or like. I’m not speaking subjectives such as think or like. I mean they are objectively better characters such as their character development and arcs. The rest of your post is so full of inaccuracies that it can’t even be properly addressed. To start, MEA was not a failure since it was a financial success (this cannot be argued) and most people who played Mass Effect like all four games.
|
|
inherit
1853
0
Sept 27, 2024 17:42:44 GMT
440
kalreegar
395
Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
October 2016
kalreegar
|
Post by kalreegar on Nov 15, 2020 20:34:21 GMT
To start, MEA was not a failure since it was a financial success (this cannot be argued) and most people who played Mass Effect like all four games Sure, it was like the first triple A game since 2007/2008 not to have any DLC or any kind of long term SP/MP support. two months after publication you could buy it for like $14,99. youtube and gif sites were overflowing with mass effect mocking on metacritic is 71-49 It had a 100milion budget and we don't even have official sales number. bioware montreal was shut down like 6 months after the release. All the clues lead us there. A huge, massive success. C'mon... yeah, like the twilight saga is objectively better than the lord of the rings. Ok, objectively... so, according to which shared system of paremeters and axioms? Shallow and sloppy things are better?
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,919 Likes: 3,123
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,123
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,919
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 15, 2020 22:14:47 GMT
MEA characters > MET characters
New characters = new and unexpected directions, reveals, and so on.
Old characters = boring, old, and often awful retreads of better stories and destroys the legacy of those stories.
|
|
inherit
TEH EVUL CREEP
1008
0
Sept 27, 2021 23:28:25 GMT
3,757
BamBam the Destroyer
I hunt, therefore I am
2,774
August 2016
jockcranley
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Nov 15, 2020 22:18:22 GMT
MEA characters > MET characters The only really good (story-wise) major ME:A characters were Papa Ryder and Drack. Well, maybe Jaal too. I'd argue that MEA had less trope-y characters overall, and that wasn't always a good thing. Too many of them had a singular obsession with one thing- Cora w/ Asari, Vetra w/ her sister. It was kinda disappointing tbh. The trilogy had more way more tropey characters, and that also wasn't always a good thing. I think the next ME returns to tropes in a big way though.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,627
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 15, 2020 22:24:07 GMT
New characters = new and unexpected directions, reveals, and so on.
Old characters = boring, old, and often awful retreads of better stories and destroys the legacy of those stories. Big thinks always from you, man.
|
|
Cyberstrike
N4
is wanting to have some fun!
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
XBL Gamertag: cyberstrike nTo
PSN: cyberstrike-nTo
Prime Posts: 1,732
Prime Likes: 467
Posts: 1,919 Likes: 3,123
inherit
634
0
May 14, 2017 17:50:43 GMT
3,123
Cyberstrike
is wanting to have some fun!
1,919
August 2016
cyberstrike
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
cyberstrike nTo
cyberstrike-nTo
1,732
467
|
Post by Cyberstrike on Nov 15, 2020 22:32:39 GMT
MEA characters > MET characters The only really good (story-wise) major ME:A characters were Papa Ryder and Drack. Well, maybe Jaal too. I'd argue that MEA had less trope-y characters overall, and that wasn't always a good thing. Too many of them had a singular obsession with one thing- Cora w/ Asari, Vetra w/ her sister. It was kinda disappointing tbh. The trilogy had more way more tropey characters, and that also wasn't always a good thing.
The MEA characters had actually story arcs and their own dreams/desires/goals and that is why they were better than the ME1 characters. They also were allowed to failed, Cora's belief that the asari had all the answer was wrong. Liam's trying to get things done by any means was wrong. Vetra not accepting her sister is adult is wrong. Drack thinking he's a relic is wrong, Pathfinder Ryder trying to live up to their father was wrong. and so on. They all learn from their mistakes and grow as characters by the end. They grow and change. Liara, Mordin, and Wrex are the only characters in the MET that have anything like that and it took them 3 games to grow. They also don't dwell on their daddy issues which is a huge plus from the MET.
Alec Ryder was a bad dad and was basically an useful idiot and he was the worst character in MEA. I don't see why everybody loves that loser. He's the Joel Miller (from The Last of Us series) in MEA in that he's an awful character who have no real redeeming qualities.
MEA had a great cast of characters and it laid a foundation for a truly great sequel like ME1 was at best an average game that got a much better sequels.
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,627
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 15, 2020 22:36:23 GMT
The MEA characters had actually story arcs and their own dreams/desires/goals and that is why they were better than the ME1 characters. They also were allowed to failed, Cora's belief that the asari had all the answer was wrong. Liam's trying to get things done by any means was wrong. Vetra not accepting her sister is adult is wrong. Drack thinking he's a relic is wrong, and so on. They all learn and grow as characters by the end. They grow and change. Liara, Mordin, and Wrex are the only characters in the MET that have anything like that and it took them 3 games to grow.
Alec Ryder was a bad dad and was basically an useful idiot and he was the worst character in MEA. I don't see why everybody loves that loser. He's the Joel Miller (from The Last of Us series) he's an awful character who have no real redeeming qualities. And the best of takes. Amazing. Just ... ugh, I could use that Italian hand gesture emoji for this one, but this will do
|
|
inherit
1227
0
Sept 30, 2024 14:03:18 GMT
3,692
Phantom
2,664
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Phantom on Nov 15, 2020 22:40:25 GMT
*sets up a popcorn stand for everyone because he knows that this thread will goes downhill quickly*
|
|
inherit
9459
0
Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
5,627
SirSourpuss
7,694
Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
|
Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 15, 2020 22:42:49 GMT
*sets up a popcorn stand for everyone because he knows that this thread will goes downhill quickly* I have no idea what you are talking about.
|
|
inherit
TEH EVUL CREEP
1008
0
Sept 27, 2021 23:28:25 GMT
3,757
BamBam the Destroyer
I hunt, therefore I am
2,774
August 2016
jockcranley
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Nov 15, 2020 22:52:52 GMT
The MEA characters had actually story arcs and their own dreams/desires/goals and that is why they were better than the ME1 characters. They also were allowed to failed, Cora's belief that the asari had all the answer was wrong. Liam's trying to get things done by any means was wrong. Vetra not accepting her sister is adult is wrong. Drack thinking he's a relic is wrong, Pathfinder Ryder trying to live up to their father was wrong. and so on. They all learn from their mistakes and grow as characters by the end. They grow and change. Liara, Mordin, and Wrex are the only characters in the MET that have anything like that and it took them 3 games to grow. They also don't dwell on their daddy issues which is a huge plus from the MET.
Alec Ryder was a bad dad and was basically an useful idiot and he was the worst character in MEA. I don't see why everybody loves that loser. He's the Joel Miller (from The Last of Us series) in MEA in that he's an awful character who have no real redeeming qualities.
MEA had a great cast of characters and it laid a foundation for a truly great sequel like ME1 was at best an average game that got a much better sequels.
Ok.... Alec Ryder is a useful idiot.. for what? What cause did he unintentionally promote? And why is he a loser? What makes him so particularly bad?
|
|
inherit
1227
0
Sept 30, 2024 14:03:18 GMT
3,692
Phantom
2,664
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Phantom on Nov 15, 2020 23:50:22 GMT
*sets up a popcorn stand for everyone because he knows that this thread will goes downhill quickly* I have no idea what you are talking about. When MET fans and MEA fans meet, sparks shall fly and not in a good way.
|
|
inherit
Scribbles
185
0
Sept 30, 2024 12:12:01 GMT
31,554
Hanako Ikezawa
22,978
August 2016
hanakoikezawa
|
Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 16, 2020 0:29:13 GMT
I have no idea what you are talking about. When MET fans and MEA fans meet, sparks shall fly and not in a good way. That comment implies a person can only be a fan of one or the other.
|
|
inherit
1227
0
Sept 30, 2024 14:03:18 GMT
3,692
Phantom
2,664
August 2016
deathscepter
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, KOTOR, Jade Empire
|
Post by Phantom on Nov 16, 2020 1:27:10 GMT
When MET fans and MEA fans meet, sparks shall fly and not in a good way. That comment implies a person can only be a fan of one or the other. Well Tribalism is not uncommon and fans get on each other's nerves by their intense fanboyism. I have come to expect for the most part online. There is nothing wrong in being a fan of both MET and MEA. I do have a rough idea of 2 Possible ME:A games. One idea deals with a Civil War within the Andromeda Intiative and Ryder Twins and their crew has to deal with it. Another idea involves Mama Ryder finding the truth of Jaadran. You can get to control Mama Ryder thru this.
|
|
inherit
TEH EVUL CREEP
1008
0
Sept 27, 2021 23:28:25 GMT
3,757
BamBam the Destroyer
I hunt, therefore I am
2,774
August 2016
jockcranley
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by BamBam the Destroyer on Nov 16, 2020 2:12:28 GMT
I'm not in one camp or the other. I loved both MEA and MET, but not enough to pretend they were perfect.
|
|
inherit
1480
0
1,080
gothpunkboy89
2,311
September 2016
gothpunkboy89
|
Post by gothpunkboy89 on Nov 16, 2020 4:34:40 GMT
The MEA characters had actually story arcs and their own dreams/desires/goals and that is why they were better than the ME1 characters. They also were allowed to failed, Cora's belief that the asari had all the answer was wrong. Liam's trying to get things done by any means was wrong. Vetra not accepting her sister is adult is wrong. Drack thinking he's a relic is wrong, Pathfinder Ryder trying to live up to their father was wrong. and so on. They all learn from their mistakes and grow as characters by the end. They grow and change. Liara, Mordin, and Wrex are the only characters in the MET that have anything like that and it took them 3 games to grow. They also don't dwell on their daddy issues which is a huge plus from the MET.
Were they allowed to fail? Nothing done actually caused any failure.
Cora's entire story arc is finding the Asari Arc. Finds out her idol isn't perfect and made a questionable choice. Then be upset over her previous idolization of Sarissa as Ryder comforts her.
Liam tries to get really buddy buddy with the Angara and tries his own methods to bridge the gap. This eventually leads to a pirate group in an unarmed discarded Kett ship kidnapping some people because he gave away confidential information. Which would be a problem save for the fact scientists in shuttles show up and manage to alter the gravity in the Kett ship over and over again and everyone is rescued without a problem or even a potential death. Then Ryder just scolds him for doing that and nothing more.
Vetra doesn't accept her sister is capable of handling things. Right before Vetra is proven 100% correct as she crosses the wrong person. Gets her sister captured. Shows up to try and help and gets captured as well and almost killed because of her own actions. Proving Vetra is 100% correct about everything she feared happening to her sister.
Drack is the pretty standard grizzled old veteran thinks he is past his prime and a relic of bygone days with nothing left for him to do. You help him get his revenge on the guy who exploited the krogan and he realizes he still has a use. Drack like the others never actually failed. I do think his story wraps up better but only because of the post game scene were you find out Kesh had babies and he has a whole talk about how he will teach them what the krogan were and what they are now. Which is a nice wrap up to his whole "I can still help my people" bit.
They all have a story arc in the most technical sense but only Drack actually manages to complete one and actually have it mean anything. Cora a long time solder being upset that her idol isn't the person she thought she was is pretty teenage angst level stuff. Vetra is proven entirely correct that her sister would be killed if she followed her into her life style and so was 100% justified in keeping her at arm's length and not letting her get involved in her stuff. And Liam was the worst because his action had the potential for real consequences to other people. The entire mission plays that up heavily only for everything to work out just fine without any real negative consequences to anyone. All the good people are safe and all the bad pirates are shot dead or died when the kett ship exploded.
Failure would be if Vetra's sister died because of her constant attempts to keep her safe and keep her at arms length resulted in her pushing her way into Vetra's world and being killed because she didn't know what she was doing. With Vetra dealing with the grief her actions caused and the realization that if she wasn't so protective she never would have tried to jump in like that to prove she isn't a child and would still be alive.
Failure would be if Liam's actions got people captured, killed and converted by the Kett and resulted in several colonies being devastated because he acted without thinking. Having to come to terms with the death and blood that are now on his hands because he thought he knew "better" then everyone else.
Cora failed but only in the sense she never seemed to out grow the mentality of a middle schooler who legitimately thinks the actors are 100% like the people they portray in movies and TV shows. Granted I might be a little harsh on Cora but that is only because I am completely unable to even grasp the concept of idolizing someone that much that I would be upset when I find out they are a douche bag. That sort of effect for me is restricted entirely to intimidate family members and my wife and that is only because of deep layer of personal trust that would be destroyed.
|
|
inherit
9274
0
Sept 30, 2024 8:29:55 GMT
1,007
hulluliini
541
August 2017
hulluliini
|
Post by hulluliini on Nov 16, 2020 7:00:56 GMT
I appreciate the changed title of this thread.
I hope it will jump forward in time, with the MEA characters either deceased or older and playing side roles, with a new team of better written characters (no more the likes of Liam or Peebee thanks). The focus should be on the mysteries of the Jardaan and the Scourge and exploration in general. The societies and infrastructure and urbanization on different planets would have evolved so side tasks and maps could be more sophisticated and interesting.
|
|
inherit
Glorious Star Lord
822
0
16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by KaiserShep on Nov 16, 2020 11:22:16 GMT
The idea of starting anew while bringing back characters, presumably to be the central cast again, seems rather contradictory. Can’t really have both. But, so long as that’s the subject, what exactly is it about the characters that guarantees it will be just as good anyway? After all, it’s not as if any of these people are real. They don’t have the capacity to perform as well or better than they were written in the past. One of the things I’ve always believed is that if the writers can’t conjure up a new roster to engage players, there should be no expectation that the rebooted old ones will fare any better. This is strictly a marketing tactic. W On that point I'd say if they write any character poorly it will always suck. But if they write the Andromeda characters well they will still suck because their characters suck. ME trilogy characters for the most part don't have that problem. That logic doesn’t really work, but I’m not talking about any preexisting characters, particularly not the Andromeda cast since I’m framing this within the idea that this hypothetical game would be set in the Milky Way. I’m responding to the idea that BioWare can’t make new characters that work, with the point that if they can’t do that, they can’t do anything good with the old ones either. As for the MET characters not having that problem, that’s premature. They’re at the mercy of whoever writes them now, and they can get assassinated or distorted into something unrecognizable just as easily as anything else. Iconic characters get destroyed all the time.
|
|
inherit
1047
0
Sept 30, 2024 14:09:39 GMT
1,729
ClarkKent
1,009
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
|
Post by ClarkKent on Nov 16, 2020 11:49:47 GMT
Out of all the MEA squadmates I'd bring back Peebee. She had a genuinely good character arc. She's also one of the few characters in MEA that actually has 'potential' if she were to come back more experienced and wise.
I do think they'd need to give her a redesign though to dial down the racoon aesthetic. In fact all the character designs in MEA sucked. Hopefully they can work on that.
|
|
Ascend
N3
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
Posts: 370 Likes: 492
inherit
3282
0
492
Ascend
370
February 2017
ascend
Bottom
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
|
Post by Ascend on Nov 16, 2020 11:53:04 GMT
To start, MEA was not a failure since it was a financial success (this cannot be argued) and most people who played Mass Effect like all four games. Can't believe people still argue this when the studio responsible for it got closed pretty much immediately after launch.
|
|
inherit
1047
0
Sept 30, 2024 14:09:39 GMT
1,729
ClarkKent
1,009
Aug 17, 2016 20:27:17 GMT
August 2016
clarkkent
|
Post by ClarkKent on Nov 16, 2020 11:55:33 GMT
To start, MEA was not a failure since it was a financial success (this cannot be argued) and most people who played Mass Effect like all four games. Can't believe people still argue this when the studio responsible for it got closed pretty much immediately after launch. It was a suicide mission. All the team died on the way but the mission was a success.
|
|
inherit
1697
0
183
The Arbiter
163
Sept 29, 2016 18:36:14 GMT
September 2016
thearbiter
|
Post by The Arbiter on Nov 16, 2020 12:05:29 GMT
MEA characters > MET characters HAHAHAHAHAHAH no.
|
|