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Post by NotN7 on Nov 13, 2020 22:24:14 GMT
I'm guessing they mean that the games initial sales would suffer due to a less than hyped audience for the next games launch; based on soured opinions from previous BioWare titles. Assuming this is what they meant, while I do think skepticism could hurt the games initial launch sales, if the game were to turn out to be amazing it would likely pick up sales a month or so after. A great game is a great game, and people will flock to it if enough word of mouth goes around. That said... I mean, you're gonna get punished in sales if your games haven't been living up to certain standards, so it's not like it wouldn't be expected. Also, the outcome of its launch would also be dependent upon how well DA4 lands and sustains itself. Agree, think about it? who is doing the complaining? my guess is us old farts and who is doing the hyping? us the old community were are few in numbers so to me compared to those who are new to ME it will decide how popular the game will be, who knows the young will want something totally new? time will tell
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 13, 2020 22:29:01 GMT
I'm guessing they mean that the games initial sales would suffer due to a less than hyped audience for the next games launch; based on soured opinions from previous BioWare titles. Assuming this is what they meant, while I do think skepticism could hurt the games initial launch sales, if the game were to turn out to be amazing it would likely pick up sales a month or so after. A great game is a great game, and people will flock to it if enough word of mouth goes around. That said... I mean, you're gonna get punished in sales if your games haven't been living up to certain standards, so it's not like it wouldn't be expected. Also, the outcome of its launch would also be dependent upon how well DA4 lands and sustains itself. A lot of good games don't get sales, after the initial opening. The idea that month 3-4 sales are going to overtake opening sales is, at best, misplaced. The one time Bioware saw that, was with Dragon Age: Origins, which happened to be their best selling game ever, at the time, only to do a 180 with the next title and make it nothing like their most successful game ever. I don't understand Bioware.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 14, 2020 3:43:21 GMT
This is why I said to a point, after all. Doesn't matter if the game is amazing, it will always be an issue of PR/goodwill/trust. And it infuriates me because that is one of the most odd parts of gaming identity that I never fully understood in the 30+ years I have been gaming. What do you mean? Basically, it is at the point that whatever BioWare makes, a lot of people will be detractors, regardless if it's good or not.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Nov 14, 2020 3:44:50 GMT
Basically, it is at the point that whatever BioWare makes, a lot of people will be detractors, regardless if it's good or not. Nah. Fans want Bioware to succeed. If it's good they'll get credit for it.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 14, 2020 3:48:21 GMT
Basically, it is at the point that whatever BioWare makes, a lot of people will be detractors, regardless if it's good or not. Nah. Fans want Bioware to succeed. If it's good they'll get credit for it. I'm not really referring to fans in this case, at least, not the hardcore fans.
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Post by regack on Nov 14, 2020 4:03:04 GMT
Basically, it is at the point that whatever BioWare makes, a lot of people will be detractors, regardless if it's good or not. Tribalism at work.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 14, 2020 12:29:39 GMT
Basically, it is at the point that whatever BioWare makes, a lot of people will be detractors, regardless if it's good or not. I think it has more to do with what Bioware serves to the audience and if they will care about it, or not. I can see the gaming public being generally indifferent, but not hostile. I mean, we saw with the remaster announcement, as I think we expected, a lot of negativity and the modding community denouncing it outright, which I didn't expect. But that's because we already know what the product is and what damage ME3 does to the franchise and why the mod community is focused specifically on ME3 to overhaul it so greatly. Not that there wasn't positivity about the Remaster, but also a lot of negativity. As for the new game, it is good that we know it's coming and the userbase is waiting for what it will be about, but depending on what Bioware serves, it may swing one way or the other. Maybe we are looking at some time travel scenario. And I don't know what they'd intend to do with that, or how do they handle it, but that is a very big can of worms. But hey, Half-Life Alyx did it and Endgame did it, so I guess we're OK with that? I don't know. I don't think we can get Jaal next to Thane and Mordin otherwise.
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Post by kalreegar on Nov 14, 2020 17:10:12 GMT
the next ME will succed harder if set in the Milky Way and if it has some kind of connections with the trilogy, brige characters etc. the next ME will fail harder if set in Andromeda, the cheap discount version of the Milky Way (and a laughable game itself) How to do that is the question. The various candidates -- canonization, massive retcons, and grinding all outcomes into indistinguishable mush -- are each hated by large portions of the fanbase. We ended up in Andromeda because that problem looked insoluble. What makes it soluble now? I would say that a "soft recton" is enough: a. if they'll set the new game on a "smaller scale" (enough of "saving the galaxy and everybody from the super-mega-unstoppable villains that will kill us all", let's deal with more "ordinary" threats. b. if they'll set the new game 50-75-100 years after the trilogy Destroy scenario? No problem. Control: the reapers helped the reconstruction and now they are the guardian of the galaxy. Ok. But this doens't necessarly mean that they have to micro-managing every system, every planet, and solve every little/medium/big problem. Also, we know that they need to hybernate at some point. So yes, the Sheparlyst is out there, watching on us, ready to intervene in case of "super-mega-unstoppable villains" (Leviathan, a massive AI rebellion...) but see point a. No more apocalyptic "the end of the world is near" stuff. I mean, why 80% of rpg should be about saving the world? Some of the best are about solving "normal/medium" problems. DA2, Fallout 3 and new vegas, outer worlds, the witcher 2, Me2 if considered stand-alone, Disohonored, Deus ex, rdr1-2, disco elysium... Synthesis: very similar to control regarding the reapers... they are somewhere, but who knows where? They are in hybernation or minding their own business. Maybe every reaper has regain full individuality , their "essence" as a distinct species, and they are acting, each of them, with 100% free will. Some are peaceful, some are not, some do cares about us, the majority don't, some of them have thier own agenda, some had decided to try explore a black hole and who knows what happened to them. ou could mention all that, you can even have a side quest with a reaper cameo if you want, but there's no need to heavily involve them. Or involve them at all. If the story you tell is a type a. story. the green glowing? Yeah, horrible stuff. A punch in the eye. A temporary effect. After 100 years, it's gone. What about the space magic: "organic and synthetic will now be able to understand each other and leave in peace forever"? Ok, very well, let's add some extra dialogue with synth (like the inquisitor had with spirits if he drank from the weel of sorrow) or somthing like that. Let's do a unique joker-edi romance stuff (like if you choose elven origins in inquisition, you can romance solas). There are no major conflict between organics and synthetics in the galaxy? Ok. But neither should there be such conflicts in control or destroy. Not necessarly. In such scenarios, violent conflicts could start in the future, but it could be 500 years, 1000 years, 50 million years from now. Who knows. And the catalyst may not be correct about that stuff. Let's remember that the "inevitability of a conflict between organic and synthetic" was not the conclusion of its research. These were his axioms. It's task, find a answer to the question "how do we avoid that conflicts?" (and not to question the reasonableness or the validity of the question ) So, the catalyst was not necessarily correct. Synth-Organic relationship can be good enough even in destroy or control. For now, at least. so, yes, synthesis is the most complicated, the retcon should be a little more heavy, but not so heavy in my opinion. They can fully respect the "sythesis spirit". That choiche may have had several benefits, but the fact that it was a "global brainwashing that elevated all living people to a higher and unimaginable stage of awareness", is just one interpretation of synthesis. It can also be a sort of limiteted genetic upgrade that makes easier for synth and organic to understand and communicate and maybe hybridize with each others, and nothing more.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 14, 2020 17:54:33 GMT
How to do that is the question. The various candidates -- canonization, massive retcons, and grinding all outcomes into indistinguishable mush -- are each hated by large portions of the fanbase. We ended up in Andromeda because that problem looked insoluble. What makes it soluble now? I would say that a "soft recton" is enough: a. if they'll set the new game on a "smaller scale" (enough of "saving the galaxy and everybody from the super-mega-unstoppable villains that will kill us all", let's deal with more "ordinary" threats. b. if they'll set the new game 50-75-100 years after the trilogy Destroy scenario? No problem. Control: the reapers helped the reconstruction and now they are the guardian of the galaxy. Ok. But this doens't necessarly mean that they have to micro-managing every system, every planet, and solve every little/medium/big problem. Also, we know that they need to hybernate at some point. So yes, the Sheparlyst is out there, watching on us, ready to intervene in case of "super-mega-unstoppable villains" (Leviathan, a massive AI rebellion...) but see point a. No more apocalyptic "the end of the world is near" stuff. I mean, why 80% of rpg should be about saving the world? Some of the best are about solving "normal/medium" problems. DA2, Fallout 3 and new vegas, outer worlds, the witcher 2, Me2 if considered stand-alone, Disohonored, Deus ex, rdr1-2, disco elysium... Synthesis: very similar to control regarding the reapers... they are somewhere, but who knows where? They are in hybernation or minding their own business. Maybe every reaper has regain full individuality , their "essence" as a distinct species, and they are acting, each of them, with 100% free will. Some are peaceful, some are not, some do cares about us, the majority don't, some of them have thier own agenda, some had decided to try explore a black hole and who knows what happened to them. ou could mention all that, you can even have a side quest with a reaper cameo if you want, but there's no need to heavily involve them. Or involve them at all. If the story you tell is a type a. story. the green glowing? Yeah, horrible stuff. A punch in the eye. A temporary effect. After 100 years, it's gone. What about the space magic: "organic and synthetic will now be able to understand each other and leave in peace forever"? Ok, very well, let's add some extra dialogue with synth (like the inquisitor had with spirits if he drank from the weel of sorrow) or somthing like that. Let's do a unique joker-edi romance stuff (like if you choose elven origins in inquisition, you can romance solas). There are no major conflict between organics and synthetics in the galaxy? Ok. But neither should there be such conflicts in control or destroy. Not necessarly. In such scenarios, violent conflicts could start in the future, but it could be 500 years, 1000 years, 50 million years from now. Who knows. And the catalyst may not be correct about that stuff. Let's remember that the "inevitability of a conflict between organic and synthetic" was not the conclusion of its research. These were his axioms. It's task, find a answer to the question "how do we avoid that conflicts?" (and not to question the reasonableness or the validity of the question ) So, the catalyst was not necessarily correct. Synth-Organic relationship can be good enough even in destroy or control. For now, at least. so, yes, synthesis is the most complicated, the retcon should be a little more heavy, but not so heavy in my opinion. They can fully respect the "sythesis spirit". That choiche may have had several benefits, but the fact that it was a "global brainwashing that elevated all living people to a higher and unimaginable stage of awareness", is just one interpretation of synthesis. It can also be a sort of limiteted genetic upgrade that makes easier for synth and organic to understand and communicate and maybe hybridize with each others, and nothing more. The indistinguishable mush approach it is, then. Honestly, even if going this route, I'd just rule out Synthesis rather than screwing with it. My impression is that it's the least popular option anyway. We also need mush flavors for the events at Tuchanka and Rannoch.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 14, 2020 17:58:04 GMT
The indistinguishable mush approach it is, then. That's going to reveal a lot of hypocrisy, from Bioware.
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Post by kalreegar on Nov 14, 2020 19:03:14 GMT
We also need mush flavors for the events at Tuchanka and Rannoch. if we don't visit rannoch or tuchanka, not really. there can be quarian and krogan around, who cares what they are doing in their homeworld? Or if they have abandoned it? Just add a codex a and a few dialogues about that topic, and that's it. Hello not-Tali, what about your people? The quarians are rebuilding and thriving on rannoch. "we will always be grateful to commander shepard" The quarians are reduced to a few thousand individuals and the new migrant fleet is more lame than ever. "damn shepard, he may have saved the galaxy, but to us quarian his name is forever cursed." very good, interesting, let's move on. Enough with the quarian, let's deepen the drell, hanar, batarian, let's visit the homeworld of turian, asari, a salarian main scientific colony... the dragon age saga works that way. you choose the fate of denerim, orzammar, the circle, and after that kirkwall, and after that orlais, the sunburst throne... and that's it, you won't see that places anymore. You move on, you go in other places. btw, soft retcon + move in new places/time is what EVERYBODY does. And this is like the best case scenario. CD project with the witcher2 and 3, bethesda with fallout and elder scrolls, deus ex ... never understood why this is such a problem with some ME hardcore fan. destroy + control + sythesis are impacting and decisive only if you go on a full-galactic scale, full galactic threats. if you are a terminus systems pirate who has to stop a salarian terrorist organization from blowing up an asari-melting pot colony and/or explore and colonize a new virgin system... they aren't really relevant. you move on. New places, new stories. Be thankful if some of your main choiches are taken into account and can influence some of the quests/dialogues/character's attitude. A team that does more than bioware in this regard has yet to arrive. And bioware is the hypocrite?
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 14, 2020 21:02:28 GMT
And bioware is the hypocrite? If you want to stand up for your ending as an "artistic vision" means that you can't compromise it. Move to another galaxy, before any of the events of ME3 happened? Asspull, but acceptable. Handwave everything away with a throwaway line in a sequel set any time after the events of ME3 means you never stood by that artistic vision. It's only that now you realize how much you fucked up and your "artistic vision" is a blow torch to the setting. Which is what we've been saying all along. And now you're just going to pretend it never even happened. Not hypocritical at all. Not to mention 9 years too late to realize it and you're going to do nothing for the fanbase that told you about it, in the first place. Just leave the potential of the setting that you wasted unrealized and hope you can sell some copies, this time.
Sure, Bioware, just do it.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 14, 2020 22:33:51 GMT
We also need mush flavors for the events at Tuchanka and Rannoch. if we don't visit rannoch or tuchanka, not really. there can be quarian and krogan around, who cares what they are doing in their homeworld? Or if they have abandoned it? Just add a codex a and a few dialogues about that topic, and that's it. Hello not-Tali, what about your people? The quarians are rebuilding and thriving on rannoch. "we will always be grateful to commander shepard" The quarians are reduced to a few thousand individuals and the new migrant fleet is more lame than ever. "damn shepard, he may have saved the galaxy, but to us quarian his name is forever cursed." very good, interesting, let's move on. Enough with the quarian, let's deepen the drell, hanar, batarian, let's visit the homeworld of turian, asari, a salarian main scientific colony... the dragon age saga works that way. you choose the fate of denerim, orzammar, the circle, and after that kirkwall, and after that orlais, the sunburst throne... and that's it, you won't see that places anymore. You move on, you go in other places. btw, soft retcon + move in new places/time is what EVERYBODY does. And this is like the best case scenario. CD project with the witcher2 and 3, bethesda with fallout and elder scrolls, deus ex ... never understood why this is such a problem with some ME hardcore fan. destroy + control + sythesis are impacting and decisive only if you go on a full-galactic scale, full galactic threats. if you are a terminus systems pirate who has to stop a salarian terrorist organization from blowing up an asari-melting pot colony and/or explore and colonize a new virgin system... they aren't really relevant. you move on. New places, new stories. Be thankful if some of your main choiches are taken into account and can influence some of the quests/dialogues/character's attitude. A team that does more than bioware in this regard has yet to arrive. And bioware is the hypocrite? Fair bet reducing the outcomes of the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs to mere flavor dialogue would probably just end up being more of a problem than anything it attempts to solve. With the exception of the few that left with the Initiative to Andromeda, the Quarians are gone. There are no few thousand anywhere. If you side with the geth, they’re dead as a doornail. The krogan on the other hand get more complicated in that however quickly their demise comes about depends on whether or not you spared the Rachni queen twice, because if you did, they take over the planet and the krogan are gone for good as well. The comparison to Dragon Age: Origins’ choices kind of doesn’t work when you consider that most of the choices you make in that game don’t reduce or destroy an entire people by a considerable degree. Like, whoever you chose as leader of Orzammar doesn’t determine whether or not the entire dwarven civilization disappears; it merely affects smaller factions that were either for or against whichever you chose, like that dwarf we encounter in Kirkwall who was trying to escape Bhelen’s assassins. Things like that are only mildly impactful on the surface world, and if we ever visited that place again, it would simply be a matter of some NPC swaps. Probably the closest to a total wipeout of a people is the Dalish clan you can destroy if you side with the werewolves, but Dalish clans are so small and secluded that any one of them disappearing has no bearing on the setting at large. Heck, we can destroy Merrill’s clan in DA2, and nobody cares lol Personally, I’d rather take a hard canonization over any feeble attempts to grasp onto as much continuity as possible while trying to juggle all of these variables, because the latter is doomed to failure. Even Andromeda greatly stretches its limits with things like the ODSY and pesky little things like how no one ever mentioned this stuff in the original trilogy. I’d be pretty amused if the remastered MET manages to squeeze an Andromeda easter egg in there.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by Sanunes on Nov 14, 2020 23:53:08 GMT
if we don't visit rannoch or tuchanka, not really. there can be quarian and krogan around, who cares what they are doing in their homeworld? Or if they have abandoned it? Just add a codex a and a few dialogues about that topic, and that's it. Hello not-Tali, what about your people? The quarians are rebuilding and thriving on rannoch. "we will always be grateful to commander shepard" The quarians are reduced to a few thousand individuals and the new migrant fleet is more lame than ever. "damn shepard, he may have saved the galaxy, but to us quarian his name is forever cursed." very good, interesting, let's move on. Enough with the quarian, let's deepen the drell, hanar, batarian, let's visit the homeworld of turian, asari, a salarian main scientific colony... the dragon age saga works that way. you choose the fate of denerim, orzammar, the circle, and after that kirkwall, and after that orlais, the sunburst throne... and that's it, you won't see that places anymore. You move on, you go in other places. btw, soft retcon + move in new places/time is what EVERYBODY does. And this is like the best case scenario. CD project with the witcher2 and 3, bethesda with fallout and elder scrolls, deus ex ... never understood why this is such a problem with some ME hardcore fan. destroy + control + sythesis are impacting and decisive only if you go on a full-galactic scale, full galactic threats. if you are a terminus systems pirate who has to stop a salarian terrorist organization from blowing up an asari-melting pot colony and/or explore and colonize a new virgin system... they aren't really relevant. you move on. New places, new stories. Be thankful if some of your main choiches are taken into account and can influence some of the quests/dialogues/character's attitude. A team that does more than bioware in this regard has yet to arrive. And bioware is the hypocrite? Fair bet reducing the outcomes of the Tuchanka and Rannoch arcs to mere flavor dialogue would probably just end up being more of a problem than anything it attempts to solve. With the exception of the few that left with the Initiative to Andromeda, the Quarians are gone. There are no few thousand anywhere. If you side with the geth, they’re dead as a doornail. The krogan on the other hand get more complicated in that however quickly their demise comes about depends on whether or not you spared the Rachni queen twice, because if you did, they take over the planet and the krogan are gone for good as well. The comparison to Dragon Age: Origins’ choices kind of doesn’t work when you consider that most of the choices you make in that game don’t reduce or destroy an entire people by a considerable degree. Like, whoever you chose as leader of Orzammar doesn’t determine whether or not the entire dwarven civilization disappears; it merely affects smaller factions that were either for or against whichever you chose, like that dwarf we encounter in Kirkwall who was trying to escape Bhelen’s assassins. Things like that are only mildly impactful on the surface world, and if we ever visited that place again, it would simply be a matter of some NPC swaps. Probably the closest to a total wipeout of a people is the Dalish clan you can destroy if you side with the werewolves, but Dalish clans are so small and secluded that any one of them disappearing has no bearing on the setting at large. Heck, we can destroy Merrill’s clan in DA2, and nobody cares lol Personally, I’d rather take a hard canonization over any feeble attempts to grasp onto as much continuity as possible while trying to juggle all of these variables, because the latter is doomed to failure. Even Andromeda greatly stretches its limits with things like the ODSY and pesky little things like how no one ever mentioned this stuff in the original trilogy. I’d be pretty amused if the remastered MET manages to squeeze an Andromeda easter egg in there. That is why I don't think people are going to care for any solution BioWare comes up with to deal with the Milky Way for as you said they are massive choices they would be mostly ignored or regulated to something like how the Rachni Queen appeared in Mass Effect 3. Its not feasible to have a game that has such major branching paths to have some elegant solution that all outcomes are given the impact that people think they need. Its also why in other games I think they take the nullification route in the same game to put the ending of that one game at pretty much a flat point so there isn't the problem of trying to acknowledge those choices. While I think going for going a complete canon ending is probably the best approach if they were to go forward with The Milky Way its at the same time why I think we are going to be saying in Andromeda. The amount of complaining about "my choices didn't matter" with Mass Effect 3 would at least from my thinking be minor compared to what would be experienced with a canon approach. If anything I think they would lose more people then gain if they were to do something like that.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 15, 2020 0:36:38 GMT
The amount of complaining about "my choices didn't matter" with Mass Effect 3 would at least from my thinking be minor compared to what would be experienced with a canon approach. If anything I think they would lose more people then gain if they were to do something like that. Out choices already didn't matter. And yes, "technically" they did, with as much commitment as making a "mushy" future, where all of the choices kind of happened and also didn't. The problem is the lie of the "artistic integrity" of the endings. All of the people that complained about it, did so exactly because their choices didn't matter. And they don't respect an ending that doesn't respect their choices. But Bioware stood by that ending and watched the fanbase and the franchise burn to the ground. Now, to have them ... 14 years after ME3, when the next ME is going to release, say anything that invalidates their previous stance with a ME3 sequel, is going to be perceived as hypocrisy. They kept that stance and wasted their time and our time, for 14 fucking years, only to come to the conclusion the fanbase came to, 5 minutes after watching that ending. And even so, return to what? And to who? They retired the MET crew, they're never touching them again. Might as well continue with the Andromeda crew, at this point.
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therevanchist25
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Mar 15, 2017 23:07:06 GMT
March 2017
therevanchist25
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
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Post by therevanchist25 on Nov 15, 2020 7:13:29 GMT
The amount of complaining about "my choices didn't matter" with Mass Effect 3 would at least from my thinking be minor compared to what would be experienced with a canon approach. If anything I think they would lose more people then gain if they were to do something like that. Out choices already didn't matter. And yes, "technically" they did, with as much commitment as making a "mushy" future, where all of the choices kind of happened and also didn't. The problem is the lie of the "artistic integrity" of the endings. All of the people that complained about it, did so exactly because their choices didn't matter. And they don't respect an ending that doesn't respect their choices. But Bioware stood by that ending and watched the fanbase and the franchise burn to the ground. Now, to have them ... 14 years after ME3, when the next ME is going to release, say anything that invalidates their previous stance with a ME3 sequel, is going to be perceived as hypocrisy. They kept that stance and wasted their time and our time, for 14 fucking years, only to come to the conclusion the fanbase came to, 5 minutes after watching that ending. And even so, return to what? And to who? They retired the MET crew, they're never touching them again. Might as well continue with the Andromeda crew, at this point. To Admiral Shepard of the First Alliance Fleet, to Professor T'soni, Dean of Prothean Studies at the University of Thessia, to General Vakarian, right hand of the Primarch, etc etc... background, quest giver npcs, or otherwise name drops in vids or radio. Remember when Bones toured the Enterprise D at the beginning of Encounter at Farpoint? Or Unification? Remember WHY they did those cameos? Because people wasn't accepting TNG. It wasn't "REAL TREK". Yea, just do that...the transition would be a lot easier for people.
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
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SirSourpuss
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
October 2017
sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 15, 2020 10:03:25 GMT
Remember WHY they did those cameos? Because people wasn't accepting TNG. And TNG was actually really, really good. And yes, there was a lot of silly stuff in it and filler shit as well, true, but the show was great, the cast was great and the crew was great. What chances does Bioware have of pulling something like that off? Their creative ideas have not been the most inspirational, as of late.
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kalreegar
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Oct 26, 2016 11:04:07 GMT
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kalreegar
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Post by kalreegar on Nov 15, 2020 10:59:13 GMT
The choiche is clear.
You go on with a setting with no good characters, sloppy lore, the sequel of a game that was a commercial failure, a joke, a source of meme and gif rather than a game and that will ALWAYS remembered as such.. and why? Because you fear what, the 0.1% of the potential players that won't accept a canonization nor a soft retcon of ME3 and will complain and cry about it because they are still angry about the starbrat?
Or you go on with a miracolous, amazing sci-fi setting, bring back great characters, you start anew from a prestigious trilogy that was considered one of the best of all time and it's still loved by 99% of the players?
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Sept 29, 2024 16:28:38 GMT
3,334
Sartoz
6,728
August 2016
sartoz
https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse1.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.hVm-5wNStlyTEXjhwDoa_wHaEK%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=8f745a5f30b08f8231ddb64664df7375d23cc10878aa50d66fec54e9d570c7e2&ipo=images
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Sartoz on Nov 15, 2020 11:01:01 GMT
Frankly, let Bio writers introduce a new sci-fi opera within the ME universe without trying to please the old guard that must have a Shep, Reapers, Tuchanka, Control, Synthesis ... etc.
MEA failed because of poor writing, awful cinematics and a buggy launch (personally, some areas were quite good, others were unfinished works). Anthem failed because ... reasons. I'm sure the studio wants to start fresh with an understanding of how to do it right and without pressure from EA. Keeping the Shep universe or parts of it is a fail, imo.
Success is dependent on DA4 and Anthem 2.0. If well received , then Bio got their mojo back and ME 5 will benefit from those two games from a marketing viewpoint. The game still has to prove itself.
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Post by kalreegar on Nov 15, 2020 11:30:53 GMT
Frankly, let Bio writers introduce a new sci-fi opera within the ME universe without trying to please the old guard that must have a Shep, Reapers, Tuchanka, Control, Synthesis ... etc. Ok, fair enough, but if so, let Bio writers introduce a totally new universe. Not-the-Milky Way is pathetic. I respect Anthem 100 times more than Andromeda, even if it is a bad lore too. At least they've tried to create a new world, a new setting But if they want so bad to go back to the Mass Effect Universe... maaaan, Andromeda is like one the worst game of the decade, you can't go back to Andromeda, it's like a -10000 start penalty
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Nov 24, 2021 20:18:46 GMT
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SirSourpuss
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Oct 16, 2017 16:19:07 GMT
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sirpetrakus
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, SWTOR
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 15, 2020 12:06:26 GMT
Or you go on with a miracolous, amazing sci-fi setting, bring back great characters, you start anew from a prestigious trilogy that was considered one of the best of all time and it's still loved by 99% of the players? Fifty years in the future, you don't bring back great characters. You visit their gravestones or, if you're lucky, the old peoples home. And I really don't care about hollow cameos. Not to mention, what are the chances that Bioware goes from Inquisition, Andromeda and Anthem, to a great story with great characters? If it's just going to be "the next batch" of expendable characters in the next "save the galaxy" plot, we already had those in Andromeda. That doesn't help anyone care for the next installment of Bioware's flopped franchise. Even as a fan of it. And besides, who are you going to cameo? Even Liara can be dead. What if ME3 ended in a low EMS destroy ending and blew up the Earth? What if you chose refuse? You can't work from that starting point. You will have to exclude some options and if you're going to have to pick, you might as well make it worth it. It's going to be 14 fucking years. Success is dependent on DA4 and Anthem 2.0. If well received , then Bio got their mojo back I doubt it. I've not seen anything to get me interested in DA4, I still don't like the gameplay and I am not interested in the next batch of expendable characters. Dorian and Isabella, if they are returning, will have reduced interaction options, compared to other characters, because we already know them, even as the new MC won't. Also, you won't be able to romance either of them, because you might have romanced them in DA2 and DA:I and while I don't know anything about the other characters, I think I've checked out. I think a lot of people have. I can't start a conversation on DA that isn't Origins exclusively with anyone. Not even at gunpoint. It will still sell, it won't be groundbreaking, it will get a good reception from critics and users will pan it again, it will go on sale a month after release and Origin will be gifting it for free the month after that. As a live service game it won't see an update until 6 months after launch and then it will go into hibernation, because it won't generate MTX revenue. DA4 is heading down a very predetermined path and I don't expect any deviation. Anthem 2.0, on the other hand, might work. It's got a huge install base, you probably won't need to rebuy it on PC and XSEX, but you will have to buy it on PS5, unless you're on Origin, sorry, EA Play. Its numbers are going up, because that's what happens when you sell a AAA title that was very talked about, even if it was a failure, for $5. You're actually losing money for selling it that low, when the MTX revenue isn't what you expected. And even so, do you really want Anthem to be the influence for ME5? But 2.0 is still a long ways away. Might not even make 2021. They've got 2 months to hit the point where No Man's Sky released its "Next" update, which turned everything around. Even as NMS was receiving updates to that point, whereas Anthem has not. I do not consider seasonal events as "updates". What's keeping Anthem alive right now, is its low retail price and EA's GameChangers. These guys and gals are really working their ass off to keep the game alive with their content. tl;dr I don't expect good things. Why would I?
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16,819
KaiserShep
Party like it's 2023!
9,233
August 2016
kaisershep
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 15, 2020 12:12:56 GMT
The choiche is clear. You go on with a setting with no good characters, sloppy lore, the sequel of a game that was a commercial failure, a joke, a source of meme and gif rather than a game and that will ALWAYS remembered as such.. and why? Because you fear what, the 0.1% of the potential players that won't accept a canonization nor a soft retcon of ME3 and will complain and cry about it because they are still angry about the starbrat? Or you go on with a miracolous, amazing sci-fi setting, bring back great characters, you start anew from a prestigious trilogy that was considered one of the best of all time and it's still loved by 99% of the players? I guess the thing that would be the sticking point for a lot of fans would be the particulars of what specifically would be canonized. You say “bring back great characters”, but what if the central character, Shepard, is canonized as having died at the end of ME3? I’d put money on more than 0.1% of people being a little displeased with that, with bonus points if they stick straight to the Destroy canon and make the death of EDI and the geth official. The idea of starting anew while bringing back characters, presumably to be the central cast again, seems rather contradictory. Can’t really have both. But, so long as that’s the subject, what exactly is it about the characters that guarantees it will be just as good anyway? After all, it’s not as if any of these people are real. They don’t have the capacity to perform as well or better than they were written in the past. One of the things I’ve always believed is that if the writers can’t conjure up a new roster to engage players, there should be no expectation that the rebooted old ones will fare any better. This is strictly a marketing tactic. While it might make sense from a business perspective, a business perspective doesn’t exactly promise something with any artistic merit. They can bring back whatever icon they want, but that in and of itself will never guarantee anything of quality.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,876 Likes: 3,509
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Sept 2, 2024 19:50:07 GMT
3,509
ahglock
2,876
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Nov 15, 2020 16:03:29 GMT
Frankly, let Bio writers introduce a new sci-fi opera within the ME universe without trying to please the old guard that must have a Shep, Reapers, Tuchanka, Control, Synthesis ... etc. Ok, fair enough, but if so, let Bio writers introduce a totally new universe. Not-the-Milky Way is pathetic. I respect Anthem 100 times more than Andromeda, even if it is a bad lore too. At least they've tried to create a new world, a new setting But if they want so bad to go back to the Mass Effect Universe... maaaan, Andromeda is like one the worst game of the decade, you can't go back to Andromeda, it's like a -10000 start penalty I prefer the trilogy but Andromeda wasn't even close to that bad. It had a decent number of good points, enough so that I've put a few hundred hours into the game. The story is generic and the characters and dialogue are pretty bad, but after the animations got patched everything else was solid. All they need to do is make a good game, it doesn't matter where. That game probably wont sell initially very well no matter where it is unless DA4 does incredibly well. But if it is a well received mass effect good sales or not the next one will do better.
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ahglock
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: ShinobiKillfist
Posts: 2,876 Likes: 3,509
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Sept 2, 2024 19:50:07 GMT
3,509
ahglock
2,876
Feb 21, 2018 17:57:17 GMT
February 2018
ahglock
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Shattered Steel, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
ShinobiKillfist
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Post by ahglock on Nov 15, 2020 16:09:48 GMT
The idea of starting anew while bringing back characters, presumably to be the central cast again, seems rather contradictory. Can’t really have both. But, so long as that’s the subject, what exactly is it about the characters that guarantees it will be just as good anyway? After all, it’s not as if any of these people are real. They don’t have the capacity to perform as well or better than they were written in the past. One of the things I’ve always believed is that if the writers can’t conjure up a new roster to engage players, there should be no expectation that the rebooted old ones will fare any better. This is strictly a marketing tactic. W On that point I'd say if they write any character poorly it will always suck. But if they write the Andromeda characters well they will still suck because their characters suck. ME trilogy characters for the most part don't have that problem.
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Hanako Ikezawa
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August 2016
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Post by Hanako Ikezawa on Nov 15, 2020 16:34:51 GMT
MEA characters > MET characters
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