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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 24, 2020 13:23:40 GMT
Depressing thread with heavy prejudice. OP is throwing all the bandwagonist comments I observed from clickbait drama channels in one post. Isn't that the point? Aren't the detractors worth considering? I think it is safe to assume that making a ME game that is just "whatever" won't work. So it needs to have something to offer and achieve something. People won't like it, just because it is new.
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Post by Serza on Jul 24, 2020 13:33:19 GMT
Depressing thread with heavy prejudice. OP is throwing all the bandwagonist comments I observed from clickbait drama channels in one post. Isn't that the point? Aren't the detractors worth considering? I think it is safe to assume that making a ME game that is just "whatever" won't work. So it needs to have something to offer and achieve something. People won't like it, just because it is new.
Not when the sole purpose is to rile people up.
The question we should ask is different from the one we are asking ourselves.
Troubling news need to be considered without using them to just try to bait strong feelings and stronger words.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 24, 2020 13:38:15 GMT
Not when the sole purpose is to rile people up. I think people should be riled up. The question we should ask is different from the one we are asking ourselves.
Troubling news need to be considered without using them to just try to bait strong feelings and stronger words. So you don't like the wording. Are the reasons not worth consideration?
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Post by Serza on Jul 24, 2020 13:57:48 GMT
Not when the sole purpose is to rile people up. I think people should be riled up. The question we should ask is different from the one we are asking ourselves.
Troubling news need to be considered without using them to just try to bait strong feelings and stronger words. So you don't like the wording. Are the reasons not worth consideration?
a) I don't think they should be. That leads to outcomes born of emotion, not logic.
I just stated a fact. I fear I have no strong feelings one way or the other. As for facts, they should be considered. With as little emotion as possible. The entire premise of this thread - reference the title - runs contrary to this, intending to get strong feelings out of people before they even click. And to get them to click due to these strong feelings. I do believe the term "clickbait" applies to an extent.
Hmm. Maybe you're right, I do not like the wording of the thread, or the intent behind it, since it's trying to demote using logic for the matter.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 24, 2020 14:05:13 GMT
a) I don't think they should be. That leads to outcomes born of emotion, not logic. Do you think purchases of video games are made based on logic? Do you think entertainment is a product of logic? Logic won't sell you video games. Emotion will. I just stated a fact. I fear I have no strong feelings one way or the other. As for facts, they should be considered. With as little emotion as possible. The entire premise of this thread - reference the title - runs contrary to this, intending to get strong feelings out of people before they even click. And to get them to click due to these strong feelings. I do believe the term "clickbait" applies to an extent. If the sole reason behind it is engagement, I don't see the reason why the author can't or shouldn't. There is no monetary gain and I don't think it is ill intent to wish to engage the fanbase. Hmm. Maybe you're right, I do not like the wording of the thread, or the intent behind it, since it's trying to demote using logic for the matter. Nobody said you can't use logic. If your logic has merit, it can refute the claims. It can agree with the claims, but it can argue how these claims can be countered. It can also agree and reinforce the claims. Or you can argue with the idea that no merit could be had, due to the initial wording of the topic and instead of arguing trying to discredit the author.
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Post by Serza on Jul 24, 2020 14:14:47 GMT
I do believe the issue lies in the wording, and the intent.
That is the problem, the original post makes best effort to make people react emotionally, and ignore any sort of logic.
Then the matter is, will people take the bait, or will they resort to logic to try and convince the OP differently, or to come to the same conclusion without squabbling?
I suppose the matter is grey enough that we could discuss it a while longer, and unfortunately, I believe I ran out of arguments - unless I go deeper in those already presented, I suppose.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Jul 24, 2020 14:23:04 GMT
I do believe the issue lies in the wording, and the intent. That is the problem, the original post makes best effort to make people react emotionally, and ignore any sort of logic. Then the matter is, will people take the bait, or will they resort to logic to try and convince the OP differently, or to come to the same conclusion without squabbling? I suppose the matter is grey enough that we could discuss it a while longer, and unfortunately, I believe I ran out of arguments - unless I go deeper in those already presented, I suppose. But now you are collected and calm. You are free to argue for or against, removed from emotion. It is up to the individual to choose how to engage. Or even if you wish to.
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Post by Serza on Jul 24, 2020 14:30:43 GMT
I do believe the issue lies in the wording, and the intent. That is the problem, the original post makes best effort to make people react emotionally, and ignore any sort of logic. Then the matter is, will people take the bait, or will they resort to logic to try and convince the OP differently, or to come to the same conclusion without squabbling? I suppose the matter is grey enough that we could discuss it a while longer, and unfortunately, I believe I ran out of arguments - unless I go deeper in those already presented, I suppose. But now you are collected and calm. You are free to argue for or against, removed from emotion. It is up to the individual to choose how to engage. Or even if you wish to.
That is true. I suppose in an ideal circumstance, there would be nothing that would try to get people off balance. Oh well. Can't have everything.
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Post by Hrulj on Aug 12, 2020 18:55:17 GMT
I do believe the issue lies in the wording, and the intent. That is the problem, the original post makes best effort to make people react emotionally, and ignore any sort of logic. Then the matter is, will people take the bait, or will they resort to logic to try and convince the OP differently, or to come to the same conclusion without squabbling? I suppose the matter is grey enough that we could discuss it a while longer, and unfortunately, I believe I ran out of arguments - unless I go deeper in those already presented, I suppose. Calmness and logic will not do a thing to Bioware. They'll make a game they want to make, the game will fail and EA will take them behind the shed. It's what last 5 years or so taught us. The studio is infected with people desperate not to make a story that goes against their own ideology. If they were remaking ME again with this team there'd be only 1 way to deal with Genophage, 1 solution to Quarian and Geth Conflict and 1 ending to ME1.
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"In uncertainty, find infinite possibility"
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Post by Highwayman667 on Aug 12, 2020 19:08:11 GMT
Depressing thread with heavy prejudice. OP is throwing all the bandwagonist comments I observed from clickbait drama channels in one post. You sir a real hero, and a real human being.
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Post by colfoley on Aug 12, 2020 19:25:59 GMT
I do believe the issue lies in the wording, and the intent. That is the problem, the original post makes best effort to make people react emotionally, and ignore any sort of logic. Then the matter is, will people take the bait, or will they resort to logic to try and convince the OP differently, or to come to the same conclusion without squabbling? I suppose the matter is grey enough that we could discuss it a while longer, and unfortunately, I believe I ran out of arguments - unless I go deeper in those already presented, I suppose. Calmness and logic will not do a thing to Bioware. They'll make a game they want to make, the game will fail and EA will take them behind the shed. It's what last 5 years or so taught us. The studio is infected with people desperate not to make a story that goes against their own ideology. If they were remaking ME again with this team there'd be only 1 way to deal with Genophage, 1 solution to Quarian and Geth Conflict and 1 ending to ME1. And the problem with that is...? Seriously while I know we all love choice in our RPGs not everything needs choices. It was one of ME3s biggest mistakes where they tried and shoe horned in a final choice in the game where it made no sense to do so. Besides this is hardly an actual problem effecting DA or Andtomeda considering both games had plenty of choice in their stories which were made and they could effect the games outcome in any number of ways. Anthem, yes...but Anthem isn't an RPG.
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Post by Hrulj on Aug 13, 2020 14:05:20 GMT
Calmness and logic will not do a thing to Bioware. They'll make a game they want to make, the game will fail and EA will take them behind the shed. It's what last 5 years or so taught us. The studio is infected with people desperate not to make a story that goes against their own ideology. If they were remaking ME again with this team there'd be only 1 way to deal with Genophage, 1 solution to Quarian and Geth Conflict and 1 ending to ME1. And the problem with that is...? Seriously while I know we all love choice in our RPGs not everything needs choices. It was one of ME3s biggest mistakes where they tried and shoe horned in a final choice in the game where it made no sense to do so. Besides this is hardly an actual problem effecting DA or Andtomeda considering both games had plenty of choice in their stories which were made and they could effect the games outcome in any number of ways. Anthem, yes...but Anthem isn't an RPG. When the choice is that of moral and belief and there is only one choice then it's a bad thing. In an RPG it's a terrible thing. If Bioware wants to make a shooter then they should advertise it as such
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Post by The Arbiter on Nov 7, 2020 21:22:19 GMT
I do believe the issue lies in the wording, and the intent. That is the problem, the original post makes best effort to make people react emotionally, and ignore any sort of logic. Then the matter is, will people take the bait, or will they resort to logic to try and convince the OP differently, or to come to the same conclusion without squabbling? I suppose the matter is grey enough that we could discuss it a while longer, and unfortunately, I believe I ran out of arguments - unless I go deeper in those already presented, I suppose. I created this thread long ago... I HAVE FAITH THAT THE NEW MASSEFFECT WILL SUCCEED.... it will. The team should have learned about the mistakes of Andromeda by now.
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Post by Serza on Nov 7, 2020 22:37:32 GMT
I do believe the issue lies in the wording, and the intent. That is the problem, the original post makes best effort to make people react emotionally, and ignore any sort of logic. Then the matter is, will people take the bait, or will they resort to logic to try and convince the OP differently, or to come to the same conclusion without squabbling? I suppose the matter is grey enough that we could discuss it a while longer, and unfortunately, I believe I ran out of arguments - unless I go deeper in those already presented, I suppose. I created this thread long ago... I HAVE FAITH THAT THE NEW MASSEFFECT WILL SUCCEED.... it will. The team should have learned about the mistakes of Andromeda by now.
Hope dies last, mate.
We're headed into a good period, surely.
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 8, 2020 21:16:01 GMT
I do believe the issue lies in the wording, and the intent. That is the problem, the original post makes best effort to make people react emotionally, and ignore any sort of logic. Then the matter is, will people take the bait, or will they resort to logic to try and convince the OP differently, or to come to the same conclusion without squabbling? I suppose the matter is grey enough that we could discuss it a while longer, and unfortunately, I believe I ran out of arguments - unless I go deeper in those already presented, I suppose. I created this thread long ago... I HAVE FAITH THAT THE NEW MASSEFFECT WILL SUCCEED.... it will. The team should have learned about the mistakes of Andromeda by now. I wouldn't count on it.
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Post by cloud9 on Nov 8, 2020 21:16:22 GMT
I created this thread long ago... I HAVE FAITH THAT THE NEW MASSEFFECT WILL SUCCEED.... it will. The team should have learned about the mistakes of Andromeda by now.
Hope dies last, mate.
We're headed into a good period, surely.
Not holding my breath on that.
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Post by kalreegar on Nov 9, 2020 9:54:22 GMT
the next ME will succed harder if set in the Milky Way and if it has some kind of connections with the trilogy, brige characters etc.
the next ME will fail harder if set in Andromeda, the cheap discount version of the Milky Way (and a laughable game itself)
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Post by lavigne on Nov 10, 2020 17:48:20 GMT
Whatever the next game is, where ever and whenever it’s set, I hope that it’s given the development time it needs and not rushed to market “just because”.
At this point I would be a doubtful candidate to pick up a new game as I have little faith in EA and to a lesser extent BW. ME games, like DA games, were far better before some genius decided that the future of the franchise was a Halo/GTA/No Man’s Sky combo. I have nothing against those games but those elements are why I played and loved the ME trilogy.
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Post by KaiserShep on Nov 13, 2020 15:43:39 GMT
Whatever the next game is, where ever and whenever it’s set, I hope that it’s given the development time it needs and not rushed to market “just because”. At this point I would be a doubtful candidate to pick up a new game as I have little faith in EA and to a lesser extent BW. ME games, like DA games, were far better before some genius decided that the future of the franchise was a Halo/GTA/No Man’s Sky combo. I have nothing against those games but those elements are why I played and loved the ME trilogy. I don’t think time is the issue so much as it’s management itself. They could spend a decade producing this game, and turn out something no better off than one they might have developed in 4. Having a clearer vision of what this game is going to be right off the bat will make a much bigger difference than having more time. Otherwise, they’ll just be tossing things around and wasting time on things like procedural generation nonsense that ends up going nowhere.
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Post by alanc9 on Nov 13, 2020 18:20:31 GMT
the next ME will succed harder if set in the Milky Way and if it has some kind of connections with the trilogy, brige characters etc. the next ME will fail harder if set in Andromeda, the cheap discount version of the Milky Way (and a laughable game itself) How to do that is the question. The various candidates -- canonization, massive retcons, and grinding all outcomes into indistinguishable mush -- are each hated by large portions of the fanbase. We ended up in Andromeda because that problem looked insoluble. What makes it soluble now?
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 13, 2020 19:23:30 GMT
Depressing thread with heavy prejudice. OP is throwing all the bandwagonist comments I observed from clickbait drama channels in one post. Isn't that the point? Aren't the detractors worth considering? I think it is safe to assume that making a ME game that is just "whatever" won't work. So it needs to have something to offer and achieve something. People won't like it, just because it is new. To a point, yes.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 13, 2020 21:01:48 GMT
It will sell some, because of marketing. All AAA games do. It's a kind of guaranteed audience, but it's not enough on its own. Then there are the blind ME fans, who aren't that many anymore, that will buy it regardless, because they have to have it, regardless of what the game has to offer. But these are a shrinking crowd. You need good will, good PR and trust in the developer to really hit it in strides. Like Respawn is doing. Bioware isn't making that.
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Always teacher, sometimes writer
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
PSN: LinksOcarina
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Post by linksocarina on Nov 13, 2020 21:09:37 GMT
It will sell some, because of marketing. All AAA games do. It's a kind of guaranteed audience, but it's not enough on its own. Then there are the blind ME fans, who aren't that many anymore, that will buy it regardless, because they have to have it, regardless of what the game has to offer. But these are a shrinking crowd. You need good will, good PR and trust in the developer to really hit it in strides. Like Respawn is doing. Bioware isn't making that. The sad thing is that will never happen again because of how cynical everyone has become. This is why I said to a point, after all. Doesn't matter if the game is amazing, it will always be an issue of PR/goodwill/trust. And it infuriates me because that is one of the most odd parts of gaming identity that I never fully understood in the 30+ years I have been gaming.
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Post by SirSourpuss on Nov 13, 2020 21:40:34 GMT
This is why I said to a point, after all. Doesn't matter if the game is amazing, it will always be an issue of PR/goodwill/trust. And it infuriates me because that is one of the most odd parts of gaming identity that I never fully understood in the 30+ years I have been gaming. What do you mean?
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Post by biggydx on Nov 13, 2020 21:56:42 GMT
This is why I said to a point, after all. Doesn't matter if the game is amazing, it will always be an issue of PR/goodwill/trust. And it infuriates me because that is one of the most odd parts of gaming identity that I never fully understood in the 30+ years I have been gaming. What do you mean? I'm guessing they mean that the games initial sales would suffer due to a less than hyped audience for the next games launch; based on soured opinions from previous BioWare titles. Assuming this is what they meant, while I do think skepticism could hurt the games initial launch sales, if the game were to turn out to be amazing it would likely pick up sales a month or so after. A great game is a great game, and people will flock to it if enough word of mouth goes around. That said... I mean, you're gonna get punished in sales if your games haven't been living up to certain standards, so it's not like it wouldn't be expected. Also, the outcome of its launch would also be dependent upon how well DA4 lands and sustains itself.
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