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Post by Ondine on Sept 2, 2016 14:40:03 GMT
Sadly I can't make Alistair king. He doesn't want and honestly, I don't think that it fits him at all. So yeah, unless my Hawke kick out that nightmare ass, Anders... well... BUT SHE'LL, SHE'LL KICK THE NIGHTMARE ASS.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 2, 2016 19:58:38 GMT
(I just realized we've been talking about DAI in DA2 section, but I suppose spoiler stuff doesn't matter any more. ) I didn't want to make Alistair king either, that's why he's a Warden in most of my playthroughs. But when I discovered my Warden could be Queen with him I thought it wasn't so bad. At least he's ruling with someone he loves and loves him, so he isn't alone. I did marry him and Anora, which I feel badly about, but... I just had to do it once. This is made more annoying by the fact that in BioWare's "canon" Alistair is king.
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Post by lilyenachaos on Sept 2, 2016 20:23:17 GMT
Sadly I can't make Alistair king. He doesn't want and honestly, I don't think that it fits him at all. So yeah, unless my Hawke kick out that nightmare ass, Anders... well... BUT SHE'LL, SHE'LL KICK THE NIGHTMARE ASS. He doesn't want it, but sometimes we have to do things we don't want. So suck it up Al! Seriously though, I'd never make him King without my Warden as queen. And never ever would I make him King with Anora as queen. Which goes back to me only having done one complete DA:O game.
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Post by Ondine on Sept 2, 2016 20:32:46 GMT
Sadly I can't make Alistair king. He doesn't want and honestly, I don't think that it fits him at all. So yeah, unless my Hawke kick out that nightmare ass, Anders... well... BUT SHE'LL, SHE'LL KICK THE NIGHTMARE ASS. He doesn't want it, but sometimes we have to do things we don't want. So suck it up Al! Seriously though, I'd never make him King without my Warden as queen. And never ever would I make him King with Anora as queen. Which goes back to me only having done one complete DA:O game. Actually, my first canon was with Cousland warden that marries him. But after playing so many times, I changed my mind and now I can't bring myself to make him king with or without her. I imagine them working together and hard to build the wardens and for me at least it fits so well... I find Anora way more capable of ruling a country than he is, or my warden is. So I'm happy with her as a queen. The only issue is Here lies the Abyss. BUT I DON'T CARE, WEEKES. HAWKE WILL LIVE.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 2, 2016 20:38:00 GMT
I'd say my only issue (so far) with Anora as Queen is that she royally screws over the elves in the alienage at the end of DAO, and I don't really understand why. Alistair doesn't, so they get a better deal with him as King.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 2, 2016 20:44:30 GMT
Sadly I can't make Alistair king. He doesn't want and honestly, I don't think that it fits him at all. So yeah, unless my Hawke kick out that nightmare ass, Anders... well... BUT SHE'LL, SHE'LL KICK THE NIGHTMARE ASS. He doesn't want it, but sometimes we have to do things we don't want. So suck it up Al! Seriously though, I'd never make him King without my Warden as queen. And never ever would I make him King with Anora as queen. Which goes back to me only having done one complete DA:O game. I confess that I often shamelessly wed him with Anora for Ferelden (there are that Anora betrayed my Warden and Alistair at the Landsmeet, of course in this case I sent her to jail...), and I have Cousland who married with Anora for throne, and spare Loghain for wedding gift to Anora... It was good choice: I dont worried to leave Loghain in the Fade. And sorry Stroud... Ergo: I have only king Alistair and drunk Alistair, and happy live Hawkes with Anders and Fenris.
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Post by Ondine on Sept 2, 2016 20:56:10 GMT
I'd say my only issue (so far) with Anora as Queen is that she royally screws over the elves in the alienage at the end of DAO, and I don't really understand why. Alistair doesn't, so they get a better deal with him as King. That's true. Although, to be honest, I think that all the benefits at the end of DA:O with Alistair king, Anora queen or both of them together doesn't really seem to have a big difference, sadly. I think that the case of Anora screwing elves is kinda like Harrowmont. I choose Harrowmont as a king because, unless you're Brosca, there's not really information that Bhelen is progressive in the way that the epilogue treats it. Even the progressive guy at the tavern says that Harrowmont is a better choice. Unless you have Zevran there to talk about how Harrowmont is a weak king (and that only happens with you talk with Vartag) there's little to convince my character that Bhelen is indeed a strong choice that will change things. Of course, she is a noble and that says enough about her.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 2, 2016 21:11:24 GMT
I'd say my only issue (so far) with Anora as Queen is that she royally screws over the elves in the alienage at the end of DAO, and I don't really understand why. Alistair doesn't, so they get a better deal with him as King. That's true. Although, to be honest, I think that all the benefits at the end of DA:O with Alistair king, Anora queen or both of them together doesn't really seem to have a big difference, sadly. I think that the case of Anora screwing elves is kinda like Harrowmont. I choose Harrowmont as a king because, unless you're Brosca, there's not really information that Bhelen is progressive in the way that the epilogue treats it. Even the progressive guy at the tavern says that Harrowmont is a better choice. Unless you have Zevran there to talk about how Harrowmont is a weak king (and that only happens with you talk with Vartag) there's little to convince my character that Bhelen is indeed a strong choice that will change things. Of course, she is a noble and that says enough about her.True, but that just really annoyed me and still does -- especially since Anora even basically says to an elven Warden that she can "help their people" but then doesn't deliver. Except for the Dalish. My Warden was an elven mage and was able to "free" her Circle (ha-ha-ha!) but not help the alienage elves. I chose Behlen. I didn't like him, didn't trust him, but I hated the caste system so I thought a chance at change was better than digging the drawves farther down the hole then they already were. In retrospect he is the progressive choice as opposed to Harrowmont who, like Varric says, wants to pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist. Though I confess I have not played the dwarf Origins yet. I wasn't that interested in them but I probably should so I can see that content.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 3, 2016 2:11:28 GMT
*Decided it's better to have this in its own post rather than tacked on to the bottom of my other one. Because I'm crazy like that.Speaking of DAI, someone made an Anders Inquisitor
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Post by Beregond5 on Sept 3, 2016 13:57:29 GMT
^ Whoa, looks good!
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Post by Sah291 on Sept 3, 2016 14:15:00 GMT
*Decided it's better to have this in its own post rather than tacked on to the bottom of my other one. Because I'm crazy like that.Speaking of DAI, someone made an Anders InquisitorHehe, I like Inquisitor Anders. I found someone made sliders for it, and so I did my own playthrough once as "Anders" after reading a fan fic in which he had hid his identity to attend the Conclave.
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Post by hobbit of the shire on Sept 3, 2016 15:59:14 GMT
Thinking about DAI, what struck me odd was that Anders didn't become infamous. Sure, it's possible for him to live in hiding somewhere indefinitely, but there were certainly witnesses to the explosion. Also, people would have put two and two together. Even if it was an unconfirmed rumour, I am sure people would be talking about who (a mage, if not specifically Anders) caused the explosion. As a Chantry teaching, as a Templar warning, as chit-chat among the commoners. If not the sole cause of the mage uprising, then certainly an expounded justification by both side alike to why the war is going on.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 3, 2016 16:43:46 GMT
Thinking about DAI, what struck me odd was that Anders didn't become infamous. Sure, it's possible for him to live in hiding somewhere indefinitely, but there were certainly witnesses to the explosion. Also, people would have put two and two together. Even if it was an unconfirmed rumour, I am sure people would be talking about who (a mage, if not specifically Anders) caused the explosion. As a Chantry teaching, as a Templar warning, as chit-chat among the commoners. If not the sole cause of the mage uprising, then certainly an expounded justification by both side alike to why the war is going on. (Or famous. It depends only on point of view. As I know rebel mages – for example Fiona – don't mention him, perhaps this is weird... or?). Few people mention him specifically yes, but as I see just because the game not about him. For example the Inquisitor knew who was he and what he did and I think, much people heard the rumors. True: Varric are reluctant to talk about him, only Hawke, if support Anders, and did not kill him speak about him some good thing (sadly not much)*. I was a little disappointed (but as I said: the Inquisition not about him). The point is: the rebellion started, he fulfilled his purpose. We also can't forget, that it was not yet advanced media, but Anders was wanted by Chantry, so yes, he was infamous, and yes, we can say: he was famous, because as Hawke (if romanced Anders) said: when the rebellion started, they (or probably Anders alone too, if Hawke was not with him) helped to the Circle mages in the "final step". ___ *This is probably explained by the fact that they were fugitives. I certainly would not trust anyone in this case. And if Hawke don't supported him, or killed him, probably wanted to forget him, just as Varric.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 4, 2016 1:07:05 GMT
Thinking about DAI, what struck me odd was that Anders didn't become infamous. Sure, it's possible for him to live in hiding somewhere indefinitely, but there were certainly witnesses to the explosion. Also, people would have put two and two together. Even if it was an unconfirmed rumour, I am sure people would be talking about who (a mage, if not specifically Anders) caused the explosion. As a Chantry teaching, as a Templar warning, as chit-chat among the commoners. If not the sole cause of the mage uprising, then certainly an expounded justification by both side alike to why the war is going on. It has only been 4 years since Kirkwall so I think it's still considered too "recent" to be "taught" just yet. History is also often told by those who survive, so who knows what Anders' story could look like 10, 100 years from now. I agree with Catilina that information doesn't spread as easily as it does now. Hawke mentions minstrels singing about Anders (though not accurately) and Varric wrote about what happened, which is "infamous" in his words, so who knows. I think at the very least people would know him by name but not by appearance. After the war started the Chantry suddenly had not one but two rebellions to handle -- which they clearly couldn't -- and chaos makes for good camouflage. It's also a foggy situation because the books imply Anders isn't solely responsible for the rebellion -- which feels contradictory to what ended up kind of being the point of DA2. But the average person probably only knows about Kirkwall, not anything else, and he specifically might not be relevant enough for them to discuss. I admit I haven't read the books yet, so I only know small details second hand. And on that note: am I the only one who was upset when a "cure" for Tranquility was found in DAI? I was just "WE COULD'VE SAVED KARL??!!" Thinking about DAI, what struck me odd was that Anders didn't become infamous. Sure, it's possible for him to live in hiding somewhere indefinitely, but there were certainly witnesses to the explosion. Also, people would have put two and two together. Even if it was an unconfirmed rumour, I am sure people would be talking about who (a mage, if not specifically Anders) caused the explosion. As a Chantry teaching, as a Templar warning, as chit-chat among the commoners. If not the sole cause of the mage uprising, then certainly an expounded justification by both side alike to why the war is going on. (Or famous. It depends only on point of view. As I know rebel mages – for example Fiona – don't mention him, perhaps this is weird... or?). Few people mention him specifically yes, but as I see just because the game not about him. For example the Inquisitor knew who was he and what he did and I think, much people heard the rumors. True: Varric are reluctant to talk about him, only Hawke, if support Anders, and did not kill him speak about him some good thing (sadly not much)*. I was a little disappointed (but as I said: the Inquisition not about him). The point is: the rebellion started, he fulfilled his purpose. We also can't forget, that it was not yet advanced media, but Anders was wanted by Chantry, so yes, he was infamous, and yes, we can say: he was famous, because as Hawke (if romanced Anders) said: when the rebellion started, they (or probably Anders alone too, if Hawke was not with him) helped to the Circle mages in the "final step". ___ *This is probably explained by the fact that they were fugitives. I certainly would not trust anyone in this case. And if Hawke don't supported him, or killed him, probably wanted to forget him, just as Varric. I took away Hawke's brief talk about Anders as "Yeah, it's complicated. Let's leave it at that." because they don't want to talk about it (along with Hawke being protective), and the game isn't about Anders. At the time of DAI we're already dealing with more than just Kirkwall, such as the Seekers, Templars and all other snowballing effects of the mage rebellion. Anders is just no longer the "focus." But with DA2 building Anders up as such a plot-important-catalyst character it does feel odd that there wouldn't be more discussion about him beyond a few throwaway lines. (I laugh when Vivienne says a "mage" destroyed the Kirkwall Chantry "with a snap of their fingers." No, it wasn't that easy or simple. ) Now, with a non-romanced-Hawke that did not approve of Anders' actions it sounds very clear to me that they are no longer friends and that Hawke even questions what Anders really was. "I'm not sure there ever really was an ' Anders.' Just a monster that wanted blood" -- or something along that line. Even though Hawke let Anders go (and in my case still ended things on a positive note) the impression is that Hawke cut ties completely and never looked back. Hawke only helps the Circles if in romance with Anders. Otherwise we aren't told what Anders is doing -- though I'd believe he's probably still trying to help mages in some form.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 4, 2016 1:19:46 GMT
Hehe, I like Inquisitor Anders. I found someone made sliders for it, and so I did my own playthrough once as "Anders" after reading a fan fic in which he had hid his identity to attend the Conclave. I've been tempted to try it, but there are some things I'm not sure I could get past: like the voice Varric meeting Hawke (!?) talking about Anders... with Anders. And even though I don't have to, I would want to romance someone. Cassandra? (Dorian is probably the best match.) Yeah, I might try it... Btw, what fanfic was it? Could you link it? And if anyone else ever wants to share fics I'd be ok with that. I'm not often able to get around to reading them, but Anders has a way of... making me do things.
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Post by hobbit of the shire on Sept 4, 2016 3:54:12 GMT
I agree that DAI isn't about Anders therefore it wouldn't make too much sense to expound at length about him, but a number of years later, I think word (warped or not) would have gotten out about something magey fishy in Kirkwall such that random NPC banter would give hints of it. I would have liked a bit of that. I can imagine a Templar giving random banter about rumours that some mage destroyed the Chantry and that unless you want that to happen to you, you better not harbour any mages, blah blah blah. Also Hawke would be implicated by association, so it's funny he/she gets to wander about Skyhold. I've not read the books so I'm not sure what happens in there. The Fiona thing caught me off guard, probably because I was expecting a 1-1 association between Anders and the mage/templar war.
I could easily see Anders in hiding as some commoner or even a healer, as there weren't photos back then. With apostates run rampant, it's not surprising that there are other healers out there. By the time of the breach, I think the Chantry has enough on its plate to not spend too much effort on finding Anders. It would certainly give ammo to the Chantry, however, to be against a mage Inquisitor. Speaking of which, Roderick probably would have known about Kirkwall and started an additional hissy-fit about a mage Herald.
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 4, 2016 5:14:45 GMT
I think it's common knowledge that a mage destroyed the Chantry even if we don't hear it in idle conversation -- years later the focus has just shifted to the war rather than how it stated, and how to end it. Vivienne uses Anders as an example of why mages are dangerous, and there is Varric's book which is apparently quite popular. Even if people don't know it was a mage, they know what happened to Kirkwall, as Starkhaven is even involved in the mess. There's no concealing that. I'm not sure how much templar-like banter there could be because the Order has gone rogue -- there is no Order. It's not like Kirkwall where we can see templars openly threatening people. By the time we step in the templars and mages have largely secluded themselves to their respective hideaways, so the only ones we come across are all battle crazed. But as I said it is odd they seemed to shift focus away from Anders after the BOOM in DA2 and switch to Fiona who (has no previous role in the games and) ignores Kirkwall in her dialogue. That's in part because of the books and why it's annoying that they opted to stash valuable content in side material. If you don't read them you don't get the full picture. So until I do read them I'll just have empty blanks. I think the thing with Hawke is that the Inquisition has a much bigger fish to fry so it wouldn't do them well to mistreat him/her -- and it would depend on whether or not Hawke actually supported Anders. I personally would've loved a scene or something with Hawke and Cullen. Cullen doesn't say anything which I thought was strange. Instead all that went with Cassandra which makes sense, but still. I have no doubt that Anders could stay hidden a long while, especially with Hawke's help. I just wonder if Anders is "off the hook" or not because after everything that has happened it doesn't seem like anyone cares any more.
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Post by Almila_Lavellan on Sept 4, 2016 12:45:53 GMT
Thinking about DAI, what struck me odd was that Anders didn't become infamous. Sure, it's possible for him to live in hiding somewhere indefinitely, but there were certainly witnesses to the explosion. Also, people would have put two and two together. Even if it was an unconfirmed rumour, I am sure people would be talking about who (a mage, if not specifically Anders) caused the explosion. As a Chantry teaching, as a Templar warning, as chit-chat among the commoners. If not the sole cause of the mage uprising, then certainly an expounded justification by both side alike to why the war is going on. It has only been 4 years since Kirkwall so I think it's still considered too "recent" to be "taught" just yet. History is also often told by those who survive, so who knows what Anders' story could look like 10, 100 years from now. I agree with Catilina that information doesn't spread as easily as it does now. Hawke mentions minstrels singing about Anders (though not accurately) and Varric wrote about what happened, which is "infamous" in his words, so who knows. I think at the very least people would know him by name but not by appearance. After the war started the Chantry suddenly had not one but two rebellions to handle -- which they clearly couldn't -- and chaos makes for good camouflage. It's also a foggy situation because the books imply Anders isn't solely responsible for the rebellion -- which feels contradictory to what ended up kind of being the point of DA2. But the average person probably only knows about Kirkwall, not anything else, and he specifically might not be relevant enough for them to discuss. I admit I haven't read the books yet, so I only know small details second hand. And on that note: am I the only one who was upset when a "cure" for Tranquility was found in DAI? I was just "WE COULD'VE SAVED KARL??!!" (Or famous. It depends only on point of view. As I know rebel mages – for example Fiona – don't mention him, perhaps this is weird... or?). Few people mention him specifically yes, but as I see just because the game not about him. For example the Inquisitor knew who was he and what he did and I think, much people heard the rumors. True: Varric are reluctant to talk about him, only Hawke, if support Anders, and did not kill him speak about him some good thing (sadly not much)*. I was a little disappointed (but as I said: the Inquisition not about him). The point is: the rebellion started, he fulfilled his purpose. We also can't forget, that it was not yet advanced media, but Anders was wanted by Chantry, so yes, he was infamous, and yes, we can say: he was famous, because as Hawke (if romanced Anders) said: when the rebellion started, they (or probably Anders alone too, if Hawke was not with him) helped to the Circle mages in the "final step". ___ *This is probably explained by the fact that they were fugitives. I certainly would not trust anyone in this case. And if Hawke don't supported him, or killed him, probably wanted to forget him, just as Varric. I took away Hawke's brief talk about Anders as "Yeah, it's complicated. Let's leave it at that." because they don't want to talk about it (along with Hawke being protective), and the game isn't about Anders. At the time of DAI we're already dealing with more than just Kirkwall, such as the Seekers, Templars and all other snowballing effects of the mage rebellion. Anders is just no longer the "focus." But with DA2 building Anders up as such a plot-important-catalyst character it does feel odd that there wouldn't be more discussion about him beyond a few throwaway lines. (I laugh when Vivienne says a "mage" destroyed the Kirkwall Chantry "with a snap of their fingers." No, it wasn't that easy or simple. ) Now, with a non-romanced-Hawke that did not approve of Anders' actions it sounds very clear to me that they are no longer friends and that Hawke even questions what Anders really was. "I'm not sure there ever really was an ' Anders.' Just a monster that wanted blood" -- or something along that line. Even though Hawke let Anders go (and in my case still ended things on a positive note) the impression is that Hawke cut ties completely and never looked back. Hawke only helps the Circles if in romance with Anders. Otherwise we aren't told what Anders is doing -- though I'd believe he's probably still trying to help mages in some form. Well, I haven't read the novels too but I searched about Asunder in Dragon Age wiki. I don't want to derail the thread too much but according to DA wiki, the cure isn't probably complete or proper yet, I feel sorry for Karl but I think he wouldn't be able to escape the blast without help at the end of the game and the cure seems to be incomplete. I admit I was kinda surprised to see Fiona as the leader of the mage rebellion since I thought Anders would be the leader. DA 2 portrayed it like Anders was the only reason for the rebellion. After some research I learned who Fiona was and all but still I expected dialogues between NPCs about Anders. All we got was Vivienne's accusing speech about "a mage" and some banters. Yeah, I know he's on the run or hiding somewhere but some people seem to know about what happened in Kirkwall. I half-expected someone to say "He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named" while talking about Anders
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Post by Catilina on Sept 4, 2016 13:01:57 GMT
I think, because Anders was not the head of the revolution. My opinion, that he never see himself as leader (for example he was seen Hawke as a good leader). Fiona standing in front of the rebels, she led them. A little (big...) disappointing that they took the glory from Anders, but as I said, he is not a leader, rather an active supporter/helper, a catalyst And I agree, probably in the Chantry's vievwpoint he was "Who-Must-Not-Be-Named".
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Post by Sah291 on Sept 4, 2016 15:17:26 GMT
Hehe, I like Inquisitor Anders. I found someone made sliders for it, and so I did my own playthrough once as "Anders" after reading a fan fic in which he had hid his identity to attend the Conclave. I've been tempted to try it, but there are some things I'm not sure I could get past: like the voice Varric meeting Hawke (!?) talking about Anders... with Anders. And even though I don't have to, I would want to romance someone. Cassandra? (Dorian is probably the best match.) Yeah, I might try it... Btw, what fanfic was it? Could you link it? And if anyone else ever wants to share fics I'd be ok with that. I'm not often able to get around to reading them, but Anders has a way of... making me do things. Well yeah, you'd have to get used to the voice, and obviously not ask about Anders as "Anders"...and headcanon around some stuff. But, there are a lot of little scenes and dialogue that seemed oddly appropriate. I didn't romance anyone else, though, couldn't do it. This was the fic, but just a warning, it's unfinished and kind of ends on a cliffhanger, just when it was getting to the scene in the fade with Hawke: archiveofourown.org/works/2765348/chapters/6201332
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 4, 2016 20:04:35 GMT
I know it's not really a "cure" yet but the thought of just having the chance to help Karl really got to me. Along with all the other Tranquil, like whoever Meredith turned with her abuse. And I don't think Anders would've let Karl be near the Chantry during the explosion. I don't know what kind of life Karl would have assuming he overcame the side effects (or what it would mean for Hawke/Anders/Karl), but damn it I want to help him.
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Post by hobbit of the shire on Sept 4, 2016 20:19:49 GMT
That's one epic fic title. :-D I think the thing with Hawke is that the Inquisition has a much bigger fish to fry so it wouldn't do them well to mistreat him/her -- and it would depend on whether or not Hawke actually supported Anders. I personally would've loved a scene or something with Hawke and Cullen. Cullen doesn't say anything which I thought was strange. Instead all that went with Cassandra which makes sense, but still. True bigger fish to fry, although even if Hawke was anti-Anders, I think Hawke would be implicated by association. Thinking RL Inquisition or McCarthy... Hawke should not be officially welcomed by the Inquisition (is that why they meet on the rooftop?).
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Post by SpiritVanguard on Sept 4, 2016 20:33:32 GMT
Yes, hobbit of the shire , I believe that's why they meet somewhere more discrete. There's even some idle chatter with 2 NPCs where one says they saw the Champion in Skyhold and the other expresses disbelief, so I don't think Hawke is widely known to be helping -- not until Adamant anyway. The Inquisition is also not part of the Chantry, so they do whatever they feel is needed to stop Corypheus. I'm not sure if Hawke's association with Anders would be treated the same way as it would today. It's also possible for Hawke to have killed Anders which would probably redeem most guilt. ...And many acknowledge that Meredith was crazy, so helping to stop her goes quite a way, I imagine.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 4, 2016 20:54:05 GMT
I guess because at that moment Inquisition has a greater purpose, therefore was being able to overlook what Hawke and his lover/friend did. (I have pro-mage Hawkes.) And remember: they are not escaped: Cullen let him and his friends go, including Anders, and Cassandra wanted specifically him/her to be Inquisitor. Yes, perhaps weird, but true: s/he was welcomed by the Inquisition. And the INquisition was not the Chantry's army: was independent. Specially focused to rifts, Corypheus and red lyrium. Gladly received any help, even the rebel mages as well.
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Post by Catilina on Sept 5, 2016 11:03:41 GMT
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