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Post by Catilina on Nov 4, 2020 14:11:16 GMT
We went through the Deep Roads last night far more easily than on my previous run, proving once again that you don't need a tank but it is helpful to have a dual wielding rogue in the party as that is the only real difference between my two parties, mage Hawke being at least as powerful if not more so than Bethany.
I must admit I don't see how people say they felt grateful to Stroud for saving their sibling. I've never had Carver as a Warden so I don't know if Stroud was more willing to take him but with Bethany it definitely was down to Anders that she was saved, not only knowing where to find the Wardens but also persuading Stroud to actually put her through the joining.
Bethany may not be as happy in the Wardens as Carver is but it is not as though I forced her to go into the Deep Roads. It was her wish because she pointed out when it is a choice between Templars and darkspawn at least she is allowed to fight the darkspawn. If she had strenuously objected to being made a Warden I'd have gone with her wishes but I didn't get the impression she wanted to die.
I do find it odd though how far the disease was shown to have advanced and yet still able to save her. She looked really bad, even worse than Wesley and her hair had even started falling out (I had forgotten her change in hairstyle). In DAO Mahariel had the benefit of Dalish magic that can slow the onset of symptoms (confirmed in the Core Rule Book to be the case), accounting for why outwardly we showed no sign of the disease taking over. However, once it has it seems strange that it is possible to effectively reverse the appearance of the victim. If I recall correctly when Bethany turns up later she looks how she did originally. Yes, Bethany WANTS to go to the Deep Roads, and very hard decision to leave her at home, much harder than Carver... The thing, people grateful to Stroud, not Anders is the fact, that many people HATE Anders. Hawke however can feel gratitude for Stroud, but Anders who really saved Bethany/Carver, without him, they not even find Stroud and the Wardens – and he risked his freedom/life here.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 4, 2020 15:20:29 GMT
The thing, people grateful to Stroud, not Anders is the fact, that many people HATE Anders. Hawke however can feel gratitude for Stroud, but Anders who really saved Bethany/Carver, without him, they not even find Stroud and the Wardens – and he risked his freedom/life here. That's what I meant. Anders hates the Deep Roads and he could have refused to go but didn't, he says he went to Kirkwall because it was a long way from any Warden outpost as he's avoiding them, he admits he stole the maps from a Warden in order to know where not to meet up with them and whilst he doesn't tell you precisely what happened when he left (as in his short story) it is a pretty good bet that he is risking a lot in making contact with them. Then on top of that he really pushes Stroud into accepting Bethany as a new recruit, because Stroud would have been happy to let her die, which is really stretching his goodwill with Stroud. Also, as far as I can see it, that is pure Anders. There is no real element of justice there, apart from possibly the injustice of Bethany dying in the Deep Roads but that is a bit of a stretch. No, that is the caring, healer Anders coming to the fore because as I've said before, he trained as a Spirit Healer in the Circle so he does have a natural inclination that way. Also, I think he genuinely wants to save her, if nothing else because she has always been sympathetic towards him. Mind you, I guess he is equally determined with Carver so it isn't just because Bethany is nice to him.
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Post by Rascoth on Nov 4, 2020 15:38:31 GMT
Mind you, I guess he is equally determined with Carver so it isn't just because Bethany is nice to him. Yeah, the same's with Carver. That's why I'm leaning toward him just genuinely wanting to help when he can, no additional sympathy required (even if he clearly likes Bethany).
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Post by Catilina on Nov 4, 2020 16:04:36 GMT
gervaise21 , Rascoth And watch the conversation: He's more emotional than Varric (Varric says, sorry, and he will kill Bartrand, but it was not for nothing: Hawke will be rich, but Anders tries to reassure Hawke about Carver (in my video), but I'm sure about Bethany as well. (4:52) (And Bethany looks like a warden at almost their end stage, because of more drama, I suppose. Carver looks good, just weak.)
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 5, 2020 21:33:55 GMT
Poor Anders, in Act 2 he is trying really hard to take the peaceful route. After showing him the reply to Ser Alric's idea about making all mages tranquil, he says it might be worth talking with the Grand Cleric. So we do and she trots out the standard reply of the Rite being a last resort. What is annoying is that you don't have the option of challenging her with "so why have so many mages been made tranquil then?"
I have to admit it is one of my complaints about both DA2 and Inquisition that there are so many occasions when you would normally respond and continue a debate but the other person is allowed to shut it down and that is it. I suppose you are just meant to assume that they aren't willing to engage in discussion, being absolutely fixed in their opinion/belief. However, it is annoying when they have the last word on something that makes you look like the unreasonable one. Cassandra asking why my Lavellen can't make room in their pantheon for the Maker is one such example but also Dorian maintaining people are better off as slaves rather than living in the slums.
Now the exchange between Sebastian and Anders is an example of this:
Sebastian: You seem very angry. Anders: And here I thought the Chantry was against mind-reading. Sebastian: Did something happen to you in the Circle? I understand there were problems in Ferelden... Anders: Are you saying a mage can only be unhappy in the Circle if demons were involved? No, it's not about Uldred. It's not about being beaten or raped by a templar— that does happen, but I've been fortunate. It' s a larger principle: the freedom every man, woman, and child born in Thedas have as a natural right. Sebastian: You were given to the Circle. I was given to the Chantry. Hawke was driven away from home by the Darkspawn. None of us are free.
Sebastian's argument completely ignores the issue and in fact states an untruth. Even if Anders' father notified the Templars concerning his son, that is hardly giving him, particularly as he was dragged away from his family in chains. Also, Sebastian seems to forget that he initially resented his family giving him to the Chantry and being constantly watched to ensure he did not run away. It was only after Elthina allowed him to leave, giving him the option to return if he chose to that he ultimately decided to do so after a period of time away considering the matter. So he wasn't given to the Chantry; he chose to join the Chantry. Even though he had taken his vows, he was also at liberty to leave again. So nothing like the experience of a mage child. As for the example of Hawke, that is even less comparable as Hawke is at liberty to do as they please and being forced to leave your home by darkspawn is hardly the same as being locked up in a Circle for life. That speech of Sebastian has always irked me.
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Post by fylimar on Nov 6, 2020 6:40:57 GMT
I agree, Sebastian is totally out of line here (like he is often). And yes, I often wish, you could discuss stuff more. Elthina shutting you down about the tranquil was the worst. I often wish, you could call character out about some issues, but sadly you mostly can't.
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Post by Sonya on Nov 6, 2020 9:33:30 GMT
The thing, people grateful to Stroud, not Anders is the fact, that many people HATE Anders. Hawke however can feel gratitude for Stroud, but Anders who really saved Bethany/Carver, without him, they not even find Stroud and the Wardens – and he risked his freedom/life here. I am grateful to Anders and Stroud for helping Carver/Beth but I hate Anders and not without reason. Sort of DAO: Loghain was a hero during the war, but his later actions, as if there is a demon inside him, are not the actions of that hero. Other people say that Loghain is not the man they remember. Did something good? Great. Does not mean can't be killed later for stupid actions and behavior. --- BTW: if remember correct, Stroud after he agrees to take Carver/Beth says something like "we are even" to Anders. What's that about?
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Post by Catilina on Nov 6, 2020 11:33:46 GMT
The thing, people grateful to Stroud, not Anders is the fact, that many people HATE Anders. Hawke however can feel gratitude for Stroud, but Anders who really saved Bethany/Carver, without him, they not even find Stroud and the Wardens – and he risked his freedom/life here. I am grateful to Anders and Stroud for helping Carver/Beth but I hate Anders and not without reason. Sort of DAO: Loghain was a hero during the war, but his later actions, as if there is a demon inside him, are not the actions of that hero. Other people say that Loghain is not the man they remember. Did something good? Great. Does not mean can't be killed later for stupid actions and behavior. --- BTW: if remember correct, Stroud after he agrees to take Carver/Beth says something like "we are even" to Anders. What's that about? I didn't speak about people who grateful to Anders, but still hate him. I just said a reason, why some people don't mention Anders, just Stroud. About that "we are even", I don't know ,what do you want to say with it, but – I heard on a Discord server that Anders sold Bethany/Carver for himself to Stroud (of course... and maybe he was, who tainted them, to sell them to the Wardens... eh... rofl) I also heard: Anders ate the kittens in the Darktown, because Justice hate the cats, but wants to feed Anders (his host...) Anders-hatred knows no boundaries... He doesn't say such thing. I posted my full video about this scene before, but here again:
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Post by Sonya on Nov 6, 2020 11:53:07 GMT
I didn't speak about people who grateful to Anders, but still hate him. I just said a reason, why some people don't mention Anders, just Stroud. I told my opinion about "grateful to Stroud"-situation. Because wanted to tell. Period. About that "we are even", I don't know ,what do you want to say with it I ask about it, and do not say that phrase myself. That is strange. I remember Stroud told Anders that line like I have described. Maybe someone else had the same phrase.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 6, 2020 13:04:58 GMT
I didn't speak about people who grateful to Anders, but still hate him. I just said a reason, why some people don't mention Anders, just Stroud. I told my opinion about "grateful to Stroud"-situation. Because wanted to tell. Period. About that "we are even", I don't know ,what do you want to say with it I ask about it, and do not say that phrase myself. That is strange. I remember Stroud told Anders that line like I have described. Maybe someone else had the same phrase. Oh, yes, you said: Stroud. But he didn't say either. By the way: people can say this, if one of them did a favour to the other – and the other returns it.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2020 13:17:00 GMT
TW: if remember correct, Stroud after he agrees to take Carver/Beth says something like "we are even" to Anders. What's that about? I was curious about this but I couldn't see what he could have been referring to. Stroud was from the Freemarches Wardens and yet seemed to be suggesting that Anders had done something for him that had made Stroud indebted to him. When exactly? I honestly thought that must have been an error because I couldn't think of anything that Stroud could have needed Anders for. If anything you'd think it was the other way around. For example, if Stroud was the person Anders stole the maps from then surely Stroud didn't owe Anders anything? If Stroud knew about Anders being in the Freemarches instead of where he should have been, in Ferelden, then Anders owed Stroud for keeping quiet about it. So I can only assume the intent was to say that Anders shouldn't look to Stroud in the future if he wants any favours just because they are both Grey Wardens; he has used up his allowance over Bethany/Carver.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2020 13:27:34 GMT
Another curiosity about the incident with Stroud is that Anders admits before going to ask for their help that he fully excepts to be dragged back to where he should be by either the Templars or the Grey Wardens at some point. That is why he was hiding out in Darktown. I have often thought it rather strange that what is effectively a military order like the Grey Wardens should be so lax about deserters. True, you are never free of the taint but even so it is odd. Then Anders admits to the same thinking, that if they know of his whereabouts the Wardens will come and collect him. Yet you can encounter the Wardens twice, first Stroud and then Nathaniel, but nothing comes of it. We also know that according to his short story, that does not ring true in every world state, he actually killed Wardens and even if they don't necessarily think him responsible at the time, the fact that he disappeared and then turns up again would seem rather suspect, so at the very least those in charge would want to question him about it. Apparently, though, it is just not important even though Grey Wardens are not numerous so you'd think they'd be a bit more concerned about losing some of their number in mysterious circumstances. I can understand Nathaniel keeping quiet about meeting him out of friendship but Stroud?
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2020 13:32:51 GMT
About that "we are even", I don't know ,what do you want to say with it, but – I heard on a Discord server that Anders sold Bethany/Carver for himself to Stroud (of course... and maybe he was, who tainted them, to sell them to the Wardens... eh... rofl) A rather stupid idea considering he doesn't do this to any of the other companions. Also, Stroud was hardly thinking that Anders was making a fair trade considering he didn't even want to take them initially and Anders has to persuade him to do so. So clearly the people making that suggestion were definitely Anders haters who would use anything to justify their hatred. If they want to cite his behaviour in Act 3 then fair enough but anything else is just not true.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2020 13:40:49 GMT
I also heard: Anders ate the kittens in the Darktown, because Justice hate the cats, but wants to feed Anders (his host...) Again, people have some ridiculous ideas. Why would Anders want to eat cats? Why would Justice let him? Justice doesn't hate cats. On the contrary he is against keeping them as pets because he thinks that is slavery. So Justice is pretty consistent in his views. Mind you he doesn't really understand cats in Awakening if he thinks that Ser Pouncelot would have stayed around if he didn't want to. Clearly he started to understand better once merged with Anders because there is no suggestion that Justice disapproves when Anders is thinking of getting another cat, whereas apparently he does stop him from getting drunk.
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Post by Sonya on Nov 6, 2020 14:08:00 GMT
By the way: people can say this, if one of them did a favour to the other – and the other returns it. That is why I asked "What's that about?" What favor? I simply do not know and wanted exact information if anyone knows. I was curious about this but I couldn't see what he could have been referring to. Been thinking as well and as well only assumptions including "error". I have often thought it rather strange that what is effectively a military order like the Grey Wardens should be so lax about deserters. Thinking back to Duncan, again think he was the most responsable GW according to his actions. Others? Riordan or Stroud? Indeed seems rather strange such change in GW rules.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 6, 2020 14:36:07 GMT
Another curiosity about the incident with Stroud is that Anders admits before going to ask for their help that he fully excepts to be dragged back to where he should be by either the Templars or the Grey Wardens at some point. That is why he was hiding out in Darktown. I have often thought it rather strange that what is effectively a military order like the Grey Wardens should be so lax about deserters. True, you are never free of the taint but even so it is odd. Then Anders admits to the same thinking, that if they know of his whereabouts the Wardens will come and collect him. Yet you can encounter the Wardens twice, first Stroud and then Nathaniel, but nothing comes of it. We also know that according to his short story, that does not ring true in every world state, he actually killed Wardens and even if they don't necessarily think him responsible at the time, the fact that he disappeared and then turns up again would seem rather suspect, so at the very least those in charge would want to question him about it. Apparently, though, it is just not important even though Grey Wardens are not numerous so you'd think they'd be a bit more concerned about losing some of their number in mysterious circumstances. I can understand Nathaniel keeping quiet about meeting him out of friendship but Stroud? Just remember Alistair. Did ANYONE from the Wardens look for him? Not. Only Teagan appeared in The Hanged Man (DA2, Act2), to bring him HOME.
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Post by Catilina on Nov 6, 2020 15:05:53 GMT
By the way: people can say this, if one of them did a favour to the other – and the other returns it. That is why I asked "What's that about?" What favor? I simply do not know and wanted exact information if anyone knows. I was curious about this but I couldn't see what he could have been referring to. Been thinking as well and as well only assumptions including "error". I have often thought it rather strange that what is effectively a military order like the Grey Wardens should be so lax about deserters. Thinking back to Duncan, again think he was the most responsable GW according to his actions. Others? Riordan or Stroud? Indeed seems rather strange such change in GW rules. Considering that Anders left the Wardens almost right after the Awakening's events, nothing. Here Anders asked for a favour from Stroud – before Anders did something for Stroud? But what? Nothing about it. Weird, I found a video about BETHANY being a Grey Warden, and Stroud says it to Anders, that if he will do it, they're already even... SO: yes, seems ANDERS did a favour for him before, and Stroud just do it for return that favour...
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2020 15:26:37 GMT
Just remember Alistair. Did ANYONE from the Wardens look for him? Not. Only Teagan appeared in The Hanged Man (DA2, Act2), to bring him HOME. As I say, for a military order they are very peculiar. To be honest, giving them uniforms in DA2 only emphasised this. At least previously you could argue it was just done for the Blight and then people could suit themselves how much they got involved afterwards but were always on stand-by and maintaining a watch in their area. Nevertheless, I got the distinct impression in DAO that in joining the Wardens you committed to that life and there was no going back to your old one. Given that Duncan was willing to execute Jory for refusing to take the Joining, I assumed that leaving afterwards was not an option either. Apparently not. I also wonder if there has been some patch since I last played the game that makes the effects on the sibling look worse. In the clip you have shown, Bethany still has her original hairstyle and whilst her eyes are bloodshot, she doesn't look too bad. That is how I remembered it from when I last played it with Bethany in the Wardens. Unfortunately, I do not have a screen shot to show you but in my latest game Bethany goes from long hair to short and it is not just her eyes but her skin as well that looks dreadful, as I previously said she looks as bad if not worse than Wesley did. It came as quite a shock to me because I wasn't expecting it. By the way, did you notice how Anders is still loyal enough to the Wardens that he doesn't reveal the secret of the true nature of the Joining? May be he thought that might put Bethany off but did seem like he felt bound by his Warden oath. Also, I think it rather daft that they allow the sibling to join you as a Warden in Legacy and yet they are totally unaffected by Corypheus. Plus that would make two Wardens closer to him than Larius/Janeka when he "dies", one of whom does not have a spirit protecting their mind, and yet he by-passes them both. How do they explain that one?
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Nov 6, 2020 18:21:46 GMT
image links to a deactivated tumblr account I rather like the words, because you can interpret it for either of them
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Post by Catilina on Nov 6, 2020 19:19:10 GMT
image links to a deactivated tumblr account I rather like the words, because you can interpret it for either of them My Hawke(s) didn't regret it for a moment. Anders? Ask him, I don't think, he would complain.
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2020 20:01:33 GMT
Here's an interesting notion. How much do you think Elthina knew about the Qunari kidnapping? Normally I just talk with Petrice and then go off to the meeting but this time I went to see Elthina first and mentioned about her seal being misused. I got the impression she knew but was holding off doing anything about it. So was she simply dithering or did she actually approve of what Petrice was doing? After all Petrice has been promoted from Sister to Mother and later, after Seamus' death Petrice always sounds as though she expected Elthina to stand by her. I have to admit that previously I thought that was because she assumed she would but could it be that Elthina had abandoned her, either because she felt she had gone too far with Seamus or simply felt it was expedient to do so? They try and present her as this reasonable but rather ineffectual old lady but I'm now starting to have my suspicions. After all, you can challenge her to help the city over both the Qunari and the mage issues and she simply waffles on about letting the children learn from their mistakes but these are serious issues and people end up dying and being made tranquil whilst she maintains her benevolent attitude of non intervention. However, is it genuine neutrality or just a convenient stance to hide behind whilst she secretly approves of everything?
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Post by Catilina on Nov 6, 2020 20:32:23 GMT
Here's an interesting notion. How much do you think Elthina knew about the Qunari kidnapping? Normally I just talk with Petrice and then go off to the meeting but this time I went to see Elthina first and mentioned about her seal being misused. I got the impression she knew but was holding off doing anything about it. So was she simply dithering or did she actually approve of what Petrice was doing? After all Petrice has been promoted from Sister to Mother and later, after Seamus' death Petrice always sounds as though she expected Elthina to stand by her. I have to admit that previously I thought that was because she assumed she would but could it be that Elthina had abandoned her, either because she felt she had gone too far with Seamus or simply felt it was expedient to do so? They try and present her as this reasonable but rather ineffectual old lady but I'm now starting to have my suspicions. After all, you can challenge her to help the city over both the Qunari and the mage issues and she simply waffles on about letting the children learn from their mistakes but these are serious issues and people end up dying and being made tranquil whilst she maintains her benevolent attitude of non intervention. However, is it genuine neutrality or just a convenient stance to hide behind whilst she secretly approves of everything? Exactly. This chantry was the place of many crimes: 1. Karl's case: rogue Templars used the Chantry as trap, and fought here. Okay, they weren't rogue Templars in Kirkwall... it was just the normality here. 2. Slave-traders (Isabela's quest) 3. Petrice's mob... This Cathedral was desecrated mostly by the Chantry's own people (except the slave-traders) ... and Elthina knew nothing... very much believable. Elthina just appeared, when Hawke said to Petrice, that Elthina should know about it. (Oh, of course it was just game mechanism, that at nights the Chantry was the place of blood fights and murders.)
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Post by gervaise21 on Nov 6, 2020 21:15:40 GMT
This chantry was the place of many crimes: "My house shall be a house of prayer and you have made it a den of evil" Slight paraphrasing there but you get the idea. If the Maker does exist, would he really approve of what was being done in a building that ostensibly is meant to honour him? "All things are known to our Maker." Justice would also take a dim view of the matter. Whilst Isabella took the tome, it is the actions of the "faithful" in Kirkwall that really drives the Arishok into going on the offensive, causing many deaths. Elthina could have spoken publicly against such fanatics and supported the Viscount in his efforts but instead chose to remain silent, just as she did over the abuse of the Rite of Tranquility and the other excesses of the Templars, just as she did over Meredith taking control of the city. Responsibility for those acts rests with her as the ultimate religious authority in the city. However, she also reflects the general state of the Chantry, bearing in mind Divine Beatrix was the one who brought pressure to bear in 9:20. So if the Chantry has become corrupted by worldly power might not the Maker wish to send people a message about this? If we are to understand that the Maker does not act directly but through influencing mortals to do his work, how does anyone know that Anders was not the "Hand of the Maker" in taking the action that he did? (Even though Anders himself may not have been aware of it) Yes, two can play at that game Sebastian!
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Buckeldemon
Now stealin' more kidz.
1,200
July 2019
buckeldemon
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Buckeldemon on Nov 6, 2020 22:42:11 GMT
About that "we are even", I don't know ,what do you want to say with it, but – I heard on a Discord server that Anders sold Bethany/Carver for himself to Stroud (of course... and maybe he was, who tainted them, to sell them to the Wardens... eh... rofl) Quick question: was that the heavily advertised Discord of the DA wiki? I'm musing about joining there, since all the push for it has pretty much all but killed the Discussions apparently. Also, I think it rather daft that they allow the sibling to join you as a Warden in Legacy and yet they are totally unaffected by Corypheus. Plus that would make two Wardens closer to him than Larius/Janeka when he "dies", one of whom does not have a spirit protecting their mind, and yet he by-passes them both. How do they explain that one? I played Legacy last week, and at least in his prompted "click me" comments, Carvers does mention hearing voices. I suppose it does not affect him as strongly, though I'd wonder why, given that Anders has been a Warden since... early 9:31? and the expedittion probably does not happen later than early-mid 9:32, so there's not much "warden seniority" to blame. ---
I wonder about the blighted faces for Carver and Bethany, as I never had these. Might be related to the fact that only the default appearances for the twins have tainted counterparts and as soon as one uses a customised face based on a preset which isn't iconic Garret/Marian, it no longer applies?
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Wanted Apostate
127
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18,242
Catilina
11,030
August 2016
catilina
Top
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by Catilina on Nov 6, 2020 23:08:23 GMT
About that "we are even", I don't know ,what do you want to say with it, but – I heard on a Discord server that Anders sold Bethany/Carver for himself to Stroud (of course... and maybe he was, who tainted them, to sell them to the Wardens... eh... rofl) Quick question: was that the heavily advertised Discord of the DA wiki? I'm musing about joining there, since all the push for it has pretty much all but killed the Discussions apparently. Also, I think it rather daft that they allow the sibling to join you as a Warden in Legacy and yet they are totally unaffected by Corypheus. Plus that would make two Wardens closer to him than Larius/Janeka when he "dies", one of whom does not have a spirit protecting their mind, and yet he by-passes them both. How do they explain that one? I played Legacy last week, and at least in his prompted "click me" comments, Carvers does mention hearing voices. I suppose it does not affect him as strongly, though I'd wonder why, given that Anders has been a Warden since... early 9:31? and the expedittion probably does not happen later than early-mid 9:32, so there's not much "warden seniority" to blame. ---
I wonder about the blighted faces for Carver and Bethany, as I never had these. Might be related to the fact that only the default appearances for the twins have tainted counterparts and as soon as one uses a customised face based on a preset which isn't iconic Garret/Marian, it no longer applies? I'm on a few Discord servers, one of them is the Wiki (pretty active) – as I remember it was on it, while I read many theories in many places, for example on DA Reddit... But the Discussion didn't be killed on the DA-Wiki, just the page got some new patches, and ruined (or something similar happened). The Discussion still lives: there's a link for this on the main page (true, probably harder to notice it, than before). About the voices: yes Carver hears them as well – but I think, Justice is nervous because of them, I think this amplifies Anders' reactions: he tries to repress both voices. (Hawke's blue answer is good here, advices to Anders: don't fight with Justice, they will solve the problem –, just stop it: so knocks him out. Siblings custom appear, depends on your choice of Hawke (Leandra and Gamlen look differently as well):
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