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Post by Sokemis on Mar 18, 2019 1:02:48 GMT
How long do you think that Marethari was possessed by the demon Audacity? It couldn't have been too long, otherwise I would think she would have turned into an abomination well before she did. On the other hand, I doubt she ran up to the cave when she heard Merrill was on her way, released the demon and got possessed, then raced back down to meet us in the camp.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 18, 2019 1:19:50 GMT
A good question.
I suppose Audacity tried to tempt and possess both of them, long ago. Seems Marethari was the easier prey, the spirit/demon used her weakness: Merrill, and her beliefs in her infallibility...
I also don't think, it was right before Merrill appeared in front of the cave, because she didn't know, when it will happen. And Merrill even told that she should have gone away from the Sundermounth with the clan long ago... I think, her stubborn pride, the temptation, Audacity didn't let her go. She was already possessed? I don't know. Probably Audacity wanted them both. Or just worked in Marethari to made her wanting to prove her truth to Merrill...
Marethari let the temptation win, but still was a strong mage – so she was able to control Audacity – and... perhaps Audacity wanted to wait for the right moment... Probably not every abomination starts to rage at the first moment... and probably not every spirit/demon wants to destroy everything right now... but perhapst it just me.
(Anyway, I think, if someone was fool, it was Marethari, not Merrill, but this is another topic...)
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Post by Sokemis on Mar 18, 2019 1:40:50 GMT
Good points. I wonder if the possession could have happened shortly after the Act 2 quest when Merrill gets/tries to get the Arulin'Holm to fix the mirror. Marethari could have realized that Merrill wasn't giving up on the mirror and decided that she was stronger than Merrill and would take in the demon instead.
It would line up time-wise of when Merrill says the clan should have left Sundermount, and as you said, could be why Marethari didn't move the clan on.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 18, 2019 1:58:14 GMT
Good points. I wonder if the possession could have happened shortly after the Act 2 quest when Merrill gets/tries to get the Arulin'Holm to fix the mirror. Marethari could have realized that Merrill wasn't giving up on the mirror and decided that she was stronger than Merrill and would take in the demon instead. It would line up time-wise of when Merrill says the clan should have left Sundermount, and as you said, could be why Marethari didn't move the clan on. Yes, I also think, that the possession happened probably between the Act2 and Act3 sometime.
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Post by Sifr on Mar 18, 2019 2:58:48 GMT
A good question. I suppose Audacity tried to tempt and possess both of them, long ago. Seems Marethari was the easier prey, the spirit/demon used her weakness: Merrill, and her beliefs in her infallibility... I also don't think, it was right before Merrill appeared in front of the cave, because she didn't know, when it will happen. And Merrill even told that she should have gone away from the Sundermounth with the clan long ago... I think, her stubborn pride, the temptation, Audacity didn't let her go. She was already possessed? I don't know. Probably Audacity wanted them both. Or just worked in Marethari to made her wanting to prove her truth to Merrill... Marethari let the temptation win, but still was a strong mage – so she was able to control Audacity – and... perhaps Audacity wanted to wait for the right moment... Probably not every abomination starts to rage at the first moment... and probably not every spirit/demon wants to destroy everything right now... but perhapst it just me. (Anyway, I think, if someone was fool, it was Marethari, not Merrill, but this is another topic...) I think it was Merrill who was the easier prey to tempt, as she was the one who ignored Marethari's instructions never to return to the cave and later made a deal with the demon in order to know how to cleanse the mirror shards with blood magic. The game paints Marethari as allowing herself to become possessed to spare it happening to Merrill.
(That's not to say Marethari wasn't foolish for doing this, nor did she make mistakes herself, but I think she did have good intentions)
Rather than being possessed, I always took Marethari's refusal to have the clan move on as not wanting to abandon Merrill, believing that she'd eventually see the error of her ways and return to the clan. Marethari didn't count on Merrill being as stubborn as she herself was though, which is the clan ended up being stuck on Sundermount for years.
Another possibility is Marethari's promise to Flemeth required her to stay on the mountain, even after helping to facilitate Flemeth's resurrection via the amulet. Marethari never elaborates on what the promise she made was, nor what she got in exchange.
(World of Thedas infers she might have sought Flemeth out to exact revenge on the Avvar who caused the death of her husband)
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Post by Catilina on Mar 18, 2019 9:04:39 GMT
A good question. I suppose Audacity tried to tempt and possess both of them, long ago. Seems Marethari was the easier prey, the spirit/demon used her weakness: Merrill, and her beliefs in her infallibility... I also don't think, it was right before Merrill appeared in front of the cave, because she didn't know, when it will happen. And Merrill even told that she should have gone away from the Sundermounth with the clan long ago... I think, her stubborn pride, the temptation, Audacity didn't let her go. She was already possessed? I don't know. Probably Audacity wanted them both. Or just worked in Marethari to made her wanting to prove her truth to Merrill... Marethari let the temptation win, but still was a strong mage – so she was able to control Audacity – and... perhaps Audacity wanted to wait for the right moment... Probably not every abomination starts to rage at the first moment... and probably not every spirit/demon wants to destroy everything right now... but perhapst it just me. (Anyway, I think, if someone was fool, it was Marethari, not Merrill, but this is another topic...) I think it was Merrill who was the easier prey to tempt, as she was the one who ignored Marethari's instructions never to return to the cave and later made a deal with the demon in order to know how to cleanse the mirror shards with blood magic. The game paints Marethari as allowing herself to become possessed to spare it happening to Merrill.
(That's not to say Marethari wasn't foolish for doing this, nor did she make mistakes herself, but I think she did have good intentions)
Rather than being possessed, I always took Marethari's refusal to have the clan move on as not wanting to abandon Merrill, believing that she'd eventually see the error of her ways and return to the clan. Marethari didn't count on Merrill being as stubborn as she herself was though, which is the clan ended up being stuck on Sundermount for years.
Another possibility is Marethari's promise to Flemeth required her to stay on the mountain, even after helping to facilitate Flemeth's resurrection via the amulet. Marethari never elaborates on what the promise she made was, nor what she got in exchange.
(World of Thedas infers she might have sought Flemeth out to exact revenge on the Avvar who caused the death of her husband) I know, Marethari wanted to pay instead of Merrill. But I still think Marethari is the foolish one between them. Merrill always looked for help, he never kept her secret what she does exactly – but Marethari dealt with it alone. Nobody knew, what she does, never asked for help, this is what jeopardized her whole clan. The game suggests, Marethari is the wise one, and Merrill's naive who obsessed with her study, with her spirit... but nothing in the game is clear – intentionally. For me: Marethari just as obsessed with Merrill, like Merrill obsessed with the Eluvian, or more. And Marethari seems absolutely overconfident, while Merrill's not. And while the suggestion is, that everything happened because of Merrill's obsession with the Eluvian, the fact shows, that Marethari caused the real problems: Pol's death and at the end perhaps her whole clan's death. Not Merrill. Marethari. Flemeth is a possibility, but according to the game, she was done here, so: while not absolutely excluded this version, I don't see much chance, that happened. I know, the game rushed, and perhaps this is a thread they abandoned... but still.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 18, 2019 10:38:06 GMT
I don't think Marethari could have been possessed for too long. If she'd been possessed a year, a month, a week, maybe even a day, wouldn't the demon have done something with her? Hunted down Merrill in Kirkwall, moved the clan out of Hawke's stomping grounds (and well away from the templars,) abandoned the clan entirely, or just gone on a rampage?
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Post by Catilina on Mar 18, 2019 11:02:52 GMT
I don't think Marethari could have been possessed for too long. If she'd been possessed a year, a month, a week, maybe even a day, wouldn't the demon have done something with her? Hunted down Merrill in Kirkwall, moved the clan out of Hawke's stomping grounds (and well away from the templars,) abandoned the clan entirely, or just gone on a rampage? Perhaps, perhaps not. The spirits/demons are different. Why would all of them behave on the same way... And I don't think, Audacity would fear Hawke, or think, Hawke is a danger. Audacity is the spirit/demon of the audacity, not the cowardice. What is Hawke? Only a human – not a big thing. But I'm absolutely okay with your answer because this means: Justice remained a benevolent spirit, and never wanted to control Anders... or/and Anders is one of the greatest among the known mages in Thedas...
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 18, 2019 11:14:38 GMT
I don't think Marethari could have been possessed for too long. If she'd been possessed a year, a month, a week, maybe even a day, wouldn't the demon have done something with her? Hunted down Merrill in Kirkwall, moved the clan out of Hawke's stomping grounds (and well away from the templars,) abandoned the clan entirely, or just gone on a rampage? Perhaps, perhaps not. The spirits/demons are different. Why would all of them behave on the same way... Well, they wouldn't necessarily do the same things, no. But I'd have thought if Audacity had held Marethari for longer than the minutes it took Hawke to get there, it would have used that time to do something, and certainly wouldn't have snuck back into the cave after it was already home free. I guess maybe the fact that it's a demon of Pride, and specifically Audacity, would have meant it feels safe doing that, but aren't there a hundred more efficient ways of doing Merril in that would be equally audacious? (If doing Merril in is the actual goal, and not just self-defense when she and Hawke walk in and see an abomination.) I don't know. Justice/Vengeance definitely did something with the time he had. Guy didn't exactly sit around waiting in a cave for the templars to walk in. So if "doesn't do anything" is your definition of benevolent, Justice/Vengeance doesn't qualify.
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Post by Catilina on Mar 18, 2019 11:46:29 GMT
Perhaps, perhaps not. The spirits/demons are different. Why would all of them behave on the same way... Well, they wouldn't necessarily do the same things, no. But I'd have thought if Audacity had held Marethari for longer than the minutes it took Hawke to get there, it would have used that time to do something, and certainly wouldn't have snuck back into the cave after it was already home free.I don't know. Justice/Vengeance definitely did something with the time he had. Guy didn't exactly sit around waiting in a cave for the templars to walk in. So if "doesn't do anything" is your definition of benevolent, Justice/Vengeance doesn't qualify. How do you know, what Audacity wants? Again: I don't think, Hawke would a threat to Audacity. If Hawke would anything to them, then rather a prey, like Merrill... why would not want to go back to the cave to hunt them? Why would Marethari want to go back to the cave, if wanted to protect Merrill? It would be much logical, if she would keep Audacity away from her. If anyone, then Audacity was, who wanted to go back to the cave, when Merrill was there... I'm not sure, about when the possession happened. Fact: Marethari didn't know about that Merrill will try to go to the cave... or if she would be sure about it, then she doesn't know when will Merrill come here. But perhaps, Audacity knew about, because connected to Merrill. Perhaps Audacity felt Merrill's intention. In this case perhaps, Audacity would call Marethari – who knows, why, but not excluded... I just said, it could happened years ago, perhaps. Perhaps not. *** Why would Justice wait for the Templars in a cave? Why would Anders want it? None of them wanted to wait for the Templars. Waiting for the Templars isn't a proof of benevolence. I think, waiting for the Templars is rather the proof of idiocy... He hasn't done anything harsh for years, then again for years... After the explosion, and during the Inquisition Anders/Justice remained calm (Hawke in the Inquisition).
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Post by Iddy on Mar 18, 2019 11:53:15 GMT
I don't know. Justice/Vengeance definitely did something with the time he had. Guy didn't exactly sit around waiting in a cave for the templars to walk in. So if "doesn't do anything" is your definition of benevolent, Justice/Vengeance doesn't qualify. Yeah. It sounds more like the sloth that Justice often criticizes.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 19, 2019 22:19:09 GMT
I actually (personally) think Marethari was possessed during at least Act 2
During Merrill's Act 2 quest, we run into Pol who's terrified of Merrill's presence afterwards Merrill tells Marethari about what happened and she said she warned the clan of Merrill (yeah I'm aware the clan was already disliking Merrill during Act 1 as well)
to make a reference to one of my favorite Harry Potter characters (Luna Lovegood) 'If I were you-know-who, I'd want to make you feel isolated from everyone else. Because if it's just you alone, you're not as much of a threat'
Audacity seems to want to make Merrill feel alone so that she slips up and becomes an even easier target and while I think it knows Hawke is a threat to it as well, maybe the demon also assumes Hawke will eventually think Merrill to dangerous to be her friend (which is what occurs if you rival her)
this isolating of Merrill started already in Act 1 by her own doing by turning to blood magic but it's not until Act 2 when it becomes clear that the clan is starting to turn against her entirely and who's telling them to turn against her? Marethari herself
at least that's what I think
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 21, 2019 4:29:20 GMT
I actually (personally) think Marethari was possessed during at least Act 2
During Merrill's Act 2 quest, we run into Pol who's terrified of Merrill's presence afterwards Merrill tells Marethari about what happened and she said she warned the clan of Merrill (yeah I'm aware the clan was already disliking Merrill during Act 1 as well)
to make a reference to one of my favorite Harry Potter characters (Luna Lovegood) 'If I were you-know-who, I'd want to make you feel isolated from everyone else. Because if it's just you alone, you're not as much of a threat'
Audacity seems to want to make Merrill feel alone so that she slips up and becomes an even easier target and while I think it knows Hawke is a threat to it as well, maybe the demon also assumes Hawke will eventually think Merrill to dangerous to be her friend (which is what occurs if you rival her)
this isolating of Merrill started already in Act 1 by her own doing by turning to blood magic but it's not until Act 2 when it becomes clear that the clan is starting to turn against her entirely and who's telling them to turn against her? Marethari herself
at least that's what I think Huh. That would explain why Marethari says something to Pol that makes Pol view the vaterral as less dangerous than Merril. Come to think of it, maybe it even explains how such a thing is possible. Marethari shouldn't have been able to make Merril seem more dangerous than certain death, but we know demons can mess with peoples heads and make them act irrationally. Or do we have reason to believe the demon was still in the statue at the time?
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 21, 2019 9:56:52 GMT
Huh. That would explain why Marethari says something to Pol that makes Pol view the vaterral as less dangerous than Merril. Come to think of it, maybe it even explains how such a thing is possible. Marethari shouldn't have been able to make Merril seem less dangerous than certain death, but we know demons can mess with peoples heads and make them act irrationally. Or do we have reason to believe the demon was still in the statue at the time? Well, to quote Allure (from Sebastian's Act 2 quest) "I could create such desires if I wished, but it is far easier to nurture those which already exist."
I think demons, especially the more powerful ones, can twist and turn feelings and emotions to suit their needs
blood magic is seen as a bad and evil thing, all the demon would have to do is make the clan believe that Merrill would start using them for sacrifices, or turn into an abomination and kill them all or, given the Dalish origin, bring back the darkspawn and get them all infected with the taint
Merrill seems to think the demon is still inside the statue, but we can't know that for certain after all, if you go up the mountain (to fight the high dragon and/or get Merrill's armor upgrade) you find that the cave the demon is in, is protected with a barrier (and blockaded with a cart for some reason ) this barrier seems like it would be easy to dispel and put back up again if someone would wish to enter
According to the lore, Dalish Keepers are some of the more powerful magic users out there, for Marethari it would be easy to dispel the barrier, enter the cave and get possessed then head back outside and recast the barrier, no one would be the wiser
Merrill herself believes that all she needs to complete her eluvian is the item she asks for during her Act 2 quest,
at the time she doesn't think she needs the demon, so she doesn't know if its inside the statue or not, simply because she doesn't see a need to talk to it at that given time
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 22, 2019 2:21:55 GMT
Huh. That would explain why Marethari says something to Pol that makes Pol view the vaterral as less dangerous than Merril. Come to think of it, maybe it even explains how such a thing is possible. Marethari shouldn't have been able to make Merril seem less dangerous than certain death, but we know demons can mess with peoples heads and make them act irrationally. Or do we have reason to believe the demon was still in the statue at the time? Well, to quote Allure (from Sebastian's Act 2 quest) "I could create such desires if I wished, but it is far easier to nurture those which already exist."
I think demons, especially the more powerful ones, can twist and turn feelings and emotions to suit their needs
blood magic is seen as a bad and evil thing, all the demon would have to do is make the clan believe that Merrill would start using them for sacrifices, or turn into an abomination and kill them all or, given the Dalish origin, bring back the darkspawn and get them all infected with the taint I mostly agree, but as for what the demon would have to do with the clan's emotions, it shouldn't be quite that simple. Which is part of why I think a demon was involved at all. Pol ran into a varterall and died because whatever Marethari said (or did) made him scared enough of Merril to run right into an immediate and obvious danger. So he's giving one woman who the Keeper says might kill him in a horrible fashion, but who isn't actively threatening him, a higher threat priority than the horrible monster he should absolutely know will kill him. Unless he's naturally really panicky, that doesn't make much sense.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 22, 2019 10:34:07 GMT
Well, to quote Allure (from Sebastian's Act 2 quest) "I could create such desires if I wished, but it is far easier to nurture those which already exist."
I think demons, especially the more powerful ones, can twist and turn feelings and emotions to suit their needs
blood magic is seen as a bad and evil thing, all the demon would have to do is make the clan believe that Merrill would start using them for sacrifices, or turn into an abomination and kill them all or, given the Dalish origin, bring back the darkspawn and get them all infected with the taint I mostly agree, but as for what the demon would have to do with the clan's emotions, it shouldn't be quite that simple. Which is part of why I think a demon was involved at all. Pol ran into a varterall and died because whatever Marethari said (or did) made him scared enough of Merril to run right into an immediate and obvious danger. So he's giving one woman who the Keeper says might kill him in a horrible fashion, but who isn't actively threatening him, a higher threat priority than the horrible monster he should absolutely know will kill him. Unless he's naturally really panicky, that doesn't make much sense. hm, true...it's a Pride demon, according to lore only Sloth demons are capable of affecting emotions on a deeper level and do so deliberately in order to feed
then again, Sundermount itself (and the area around it) has a very weak Veil, demons and spirits pass over easily, I suppose (like the Sloth demon from Broken Circle) this Pride demon could ask the help of other demons if it so chose
I recall from the Dalish origin that Pol was quite fidgety to begin with.
His first question to the Dalish Warden is asking if its true what they told him of the Dalish during his life in the Alienage if the Warden jokes about 'the only part where we sacrifice young elves to our gods', he panics and wants to be reassured the Warden is merely joking maybe he also saw someone use blood magic in the past (possibly another member of his Alienage), and if told Merrill practices this art, that might make him believe that Merrill is the most dangerous person at that moment, if if she wasn't threatening him at all
I also wonder why Pol was inside that cave to begin with, if there is a Varterall -and the Keeper knows this because several hunters already died against it-...shouldn't she have warned him not to enter in the first place?
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Mar 22, 2019 12:26:09 GMT
I mostly agree, but as for what the demon would have to do with the clan's emotions, it shouldn't be quite that simple. Which is part of why I think a demon was involved at all. Pol ran into a varterall and died because whatever Marethari said (or did) made him scared enough of Merril to run right into an immediate and obvious danger. So he's giving one woman who the Keeper says might kill him in a horrible fashion, but who isn't actively threatening him, a higher threat priority than the horrible monster he should absolutely know will kill him. Unless he's naturally really panicky, that doesn't make much sense. hm, true...it's a Pride demon, according to lore only Sloth demons are capable of affecting emotions on a deeper level and do so deliberately in order to feed then again, Sundermount itself (and the area around it) has a very weak Veil, demons and spirits pass over easily, I suppose (like the Sloth demon from Broken Circle) this Pride demon could ask the help of other demons if it so chose I recall from the Dalish origin that Pol was quite fidgety to begin with.
His first question to the Dalish Warden is asking if its true what they told him of the Dalish during his life in the Alienage if the Warden jokes about 'the only part where we sacrifice young elves to our gods', he panics and wants to be reassured the Warden is merely joking maybe he also saw someone use blood magic in the past (possibly another member of his Alienage), and if told Merrill practices this art, that might make him believe that Merrill is the most dangerous person at that moment, if if she wasn't threatening him at all
Fair point. ... unless she really was already possessed? ... or unless this was very poorly written and we're putting way too much effort into seeing a rationale here.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Mar 22, 2019 13:01:19 GMT
hm, true...it's a Pride demon, according to lore only Sloth demons are capable of affecting emotions on a deeper level and do so deliberately in order to feed then again, Sundermount itself (and the area around it) has a very weak Veil, demons and spirits pass over easily, I suppose (like the Sloth demon from Broken Circle) this Pride demon could ask the help of other demons if it so chose I recall from the Dalish origin that Pol was quite fidgety to begin with.
His first question to the Dalish Warden is asking if its true what they told him of the Dalish during his life in the Alienage if the Warden jokes about 'the only part where we sacrifice young elves to our gods', he panics and wants to be reassured the Warden is merely joking maybe he also saw someone use blood magic in the past (possibly another member of his Alienage), and if told Merrill practices this art, that might make him believe that Merrill is the most dangerous person at that moment, if if she wasn't threatening him at all
Fair point.... unless she really was already possessed? ... or unless this was very poorly written and we're putting way too much effort into seeing a rationale here. well, it's Varric telling the story...most of it should be taken with a giant helping of salt to begin with (my general excuse for plot holes and poor writing in DA2)
but hey, it's fun to speculate on the how and why of certain actions characters perform
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Post by fylimar on Apr 4, 2019 5:16:54 GMT
I mostly agree, but as for what the demon would have to do with the clan's emotions, it shouldn't be quite that simple. Which is part of why I think a demon was involved at all. Pol ran into a varterall and died because whatever Marethari said (or did) made him scared enough of Merril to run right into an immediate and obvious danger. So he's giving one woman who the Keeper says might kill him in a horrible fashion, but who isn't actively threatening him, a higher threat priority than the horrible monster he should absolutely know will kill him. Unless he's naturally really panicky, that doesn't make much sense. hm, true...it's a Pride demon, according to lore only Sloth demons are capable of affecting emotions on a deeper level and do so deliberately in order to feed
then again, Sundermount itself (and the area around it) has a very weak Veil, demons and spirits pass over easily, I suppose (like the Sloth demon from Broken Circle) this Pride demon could ask the help of other demons if it so chose
I recall from the Dalish origin that Pol was quite fidgety to begin with.
His first question to the Dalish Warden is asking if its true what they told him of the Dalish during his life in the Alienage if the Warden jokes about 'the only part where we sacrifice young elves to our gods', he panics and wants to be reassured the Warden is merely joking maybe he also saw someone use blood magic in the past (possibly another member of his Alienage), and if told Merrill practices this art, that might make him believe that Merrill is the most dangerous person at that moment, if if she wasn't threatening him at all
I also wonder why Pol was inside that cave to begin with, if there is a Varterall -and the Keeper knows this because several hunters already died against it-...shouldn't she have warned him not to enter in the first place? I was of the opinion, that Pol was one the hunters, that entered the cave and just was lucky enough to stay alive longer than the others. I think, it could be possible that Marethari was possessed during that quest, but it would also not be out of character to be genuinely worried about what Merrill would do and warned the clan and Pol taking it a bit too serious. I don't find it strange that a keeper would advice caution against a blood mage who confer with demons. Merrills stance in some quests are worrisome tbh. When she disapproves, when you turn down a demon or destroy Tahrones evil tomes. It shows at least, that she don't really know, what she is dealing with. And the keeper knows her longer than Hawke and might be truly worried about Merrills development. So both is possible imo, that Marethari was possessed and the demon wanted to keep Merrill isolated or Marethari just being genuinely worried.
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 4, 2019 8:46:52 GMT
I was of the opinion, that Pol was one the hunters, that entered the cave and just was lucky enough to stay alive longer than the others. I think, it could be possible that Marethari was possessed during that quest, but it would also not be out of character to be genuinely worried about what Merrill would do and warned the clan and Pol taking it a bit too serious. I don't find it strange that a keeper would advice caution against a blood mage who confer with demons. Merrills stance in some quests are worrisome tbh. When she disapproves, when you turn down a demon or destroy Tahrones evil tomes. It shows at least, that she don't really know, what she is dealing with. And the keeper knows her longer than Hawke and might be truly worried about Merrills development. So both is possible imo, that Marethari was possessed and the demon wanted to keep Merrill isolated or Marethari just being genuinely worried. yeah, I think so too...but I wonder why Pol didn't have his vallaslin yet if that were so. I mean, during that time he's been with the clan for what...4 to 5 years by that point? unless of course they have a certain policy of in which newcomers have to prove themselves for a longer period before receiving them
and I agree, I also think it was a combination of both, Marethari being genuinely concerned and the demon influencing people through her
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Post by fylimar on Apr 4, 2019 9:47:16 GMT
I was of the opinion, that Pol was one the hunters, that entered the cave and just was lucky enough to stay alive longer than the others. I think, it could be possible that Marethari was possessed during that quest, but it would also not be out of character to be genuinely worried about what Merrill would do and warned the clan and Pol taking it a bit too serious. I don't find it strange that a keeper would advice caution against a blood mage who confer with demons. Merrills stance in some quests are worrisome tbh. When she disapproves, when you turn down a demon or destroy Tahrones evil tomes. It shows at least, that she don't really know, what she is dealing with. And the keeper knows her longer than Hawke and might be truly worried about Merrills development. So both is possible imo, that Marethari was possessed and the demon wanted to keep Merrill isolated or Marethari just being genuinely worried. yeah, I think so too...but I wonder why Pol didn't have his vallaslin yet if that were so. I mean, during that time he's been with the clan for what...4 to 5 years by that point? unless of course they have a certain policy of in which newcomers have to prove themselves for a longer period before receiving them
and I agree, I also think it was a combination of both, Marethari being genuinely concerned and the demon influencing people through her Maybe Pol was still an apprentice. According to Marethari, Vatherals normal leave people alone. Maybe they thought, the expedition in that cave would not be too dangerous and Pol could learn something along the way. It's a bit of a mystery to me too, tbh
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Post by LadyofNemesis on Apr 4, 2019 10:01:09 GMT
Maybe Pol was still an apprentice. According to Marethari, Vatherals normal leave people alone. Maybe they thought, the expedition in that cave would not be too dangerous and Pol could learn something along the way. It's a bit of a mystery to me too, tbh hm, good point vartherals are supposed to leave the people (elves) alone, unless agitated...which in the few instances we've seen one, yeah... as Merrill stated, something must've provoked it somehow, it's only guessing what that might've been
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Post by fylimar on Apr 4, 2019 18:04:31 GMT
Could be the demon or the general bad influence of Kirkwall (according to the Band of Three from the Enigma of Kirkwall codexes). Or both
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 12, 2019 19:12:57 GMT
I wonder why Pol didn't have his vallaslin yet if that were so. I mean, during that time he's been with the clan for what...4 to 5 years by that point? According to what we were told previously, the person has to feel ready themselves before they take them. Also if they flinch or show discomfort when they are being applied, then it is considered they are not yet ready for them. If Pol was a trainee hunter and wanted the vallaslin of Andruil, it is possible he had to prove himself in some way before he could take them. Going into the cave with the hunters may even have been the test of nerve that he had to pass before being considered worthy of the vallaslin.
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 12, 2019 19:15:53 GMT
vartherals are supposed to leave the people (elves) alone, unless agitated...which in the few instances we've seen one, yeah... as Merrill stated, something must've provoked it somehow, Right back in Act 1 Merrill says that the spirits of Sundermount are not resting easy, so I would imagine that would apply to the varteral as well. I think the demon probably had a lot to do with that.
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