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Post by biggydx on Mar 24, 2019 18:30:54 GMT
doesn't he have the ability - at this point - to open or manipulate blight rifts What is a blight rift? Sorry, I'm blanking on the name since it was a while ago. I'm referring to the Fade openings you needed to close in Inquisition. Just to be clear, I could be wrong on whether or not Solas has the ability to manipulate these or not. I do know that he seeks to bring the Fade into the real world of Thedas in order to reshape reality to his preference.
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 24, 2019 18:33:54 GMT
The Qunari are gearing up to make their move too, and it's not obvious to me that the mage/templar situation is entirely stable by Trespasser, or that they'll stay that way depending on what reforms you start enacting throughout the game. It was clear the Qunari were a threat and yet the Exalted Council were still insisting on cutting the Inquisition down in size or disbanding it altogether. As for the mage/Templar situation, it is clear at the end of Trespasser that no matter what Divine you backed or what reforms you tried to enact, ultimately the writers are going to move things back to a situation pretty much where we were before the rebellion occurred. Of course we are not likely to be impacted by anything we did anyway in the next game since we will no longer in the south. So any developments in the south for good or ill are likely to be notified either by codices or companion gossip. I have no expectation of doing anything now that is lasting in terms of changing the overall state of Thedas. None of the boons we received as Hero of Ferelden had lasting effect if they didn't fit with their idea of how the story should progress, DAA was totally forgotten about when it came to the Grey Warden status in Ferelden and Hawke always ends up back in Kirkwall(unless you kill them off), so why would DAI be any different? So? Our Inquisitor still has to weigh to what extent the Inquisition will be needed based on their own sense of events. I'm not talking about what we can realistically expect for future games, I'm talking about what our Inquisitors would realistically be able to expect from the future. A few years of relative peace between mages and muggles aren't very comforting when we're talking about a dynamic that was tenuous for hundreds of years before almost ripping the world apart just recently, especially with even more chaos and instability on the horizon.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 25, 2019 8:16:28 GMT
I'm not talking about what we can realistically expect for future games, I'm talking about what our Inquisitors would realistically be able to expect from the future. A few years of relative peace between mages and muggles aren't very comforting when we're talking about a dynamic that was tenuous for hundreds of years before almost ripping the world apart just recently, especially with even more chaos and instability on the horizon. This is exactly why I wouldn't expect the situation to last if you did give the mages their freedom, with the backing of the Divine. What we understand is the situation in the epilogue to Trespasser, no matter who is Divine, is exactly what I would predict would happen as Inquisitor - since my Lavellan is very cynical about their reforms having a lasting effect. I think it would be naïve of anyone to expect any different: The College of Enchanters comprising the "free" mages of the south have no real influence and are merely tolerated by the community at large. The real power lies with Grand Enchanter Vivienne (or Divine although I find that outcome absurd) who has the backing of the nobility in Orlais and probably elsewhere too, with her loyalist mages who advocate a return to the Circle system. The monarch of Ferelden was undermined in their efforts to help the rebel mages by them opting to align themselves to Tevinter as soon as the going got tough. Other leaders were less liberal in their views to begin with, so with that outcome before them they are unlikely to give the College of Enchanters their refuge or support. Ordinary people are likely still to be highly suspicious of mages and possibly even hostile, so more likely to insist on them being confined rather than roaming among them. Thus overtime I fully expect that the Circles will again become the norm, either controlled by the Templars as before or by the State in which they are located.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 25, 2019 8:45:06 GMT
Considering how long Solas has been around, he likely understands the underpinnings of many societies, and would be much more targeted in his approach to create instability; rather than having a large army walking up on someones doorstep. I'd agree with you here. As other people have said, unlike Corypheus, Solas doesn't want to conquer Thedas in order to restore the world of the elves but alter the fabric of reality, so unless he needs an army to achieve this aim, having a large conventional fighting force is only going to be a liability. If elves are flocking to him it is likely because he has some other use for them. Admittedly he might be training them up to fight the freed Evanuris but to be honest I doubt modern elves, even with magical ability restored to them, would be a match for 7 extremely angry (and likely insane at this point) elf gods. Plus, if Tevinter and the Qunari are going to war, he could just as easily manipulate them in order to start a war that envelopes Thedas; using the instability to his advantage I think thwarting the Qunari in the south was precisely because he guessed they would then target Tevinter and he could use the chaos of war to further his aims in the north. However, he also made it clear that he interfered to prevent the Qunari's plot for southern Thedas precisely because he doesn't want the relative peace that the Inquisition established to be disturbed. This is why he even saved the life of an Inquisitor he despises. So if anything he has already manipulated events to prevent a Thedas wide war. I am sure that this was done less out of compassion for the southerners of Thedas than for the fact that it wouldn't further his own schemes to have chaos everywhere. If this becomes the case, he wouldn't need to risk sacrificing many elves, as he could let Demons fight for him I am not sure whether he would be in favour of using demons. Firstly, opening rifts and pulling through denizens of the Fade through them, harms ordinary spirits turning them into demons which he would object to. Secondly, if they were already demons in the Fade then he would know they would be highly untrustworthy and couldn't be relied upon to act as ordered. If he wished to control them, he would have to bind them and that would run contrary to everything he claims to believe. Whilst he might take such action as a last resort, I don't think he would use it as a general plan of action. I think we should also remember that Solas has now powered up so has power probably unknown to the majority of Thedas mages. There are also a number ancient elves that he can call on. When the Tevinter Imperium attacked the elves of Arlathan Forest, the elves were able to withstand their assault for six years. In the end Tevinter had to resort to extreme methods to bring about a resolution to the war as they were unable to conquer the elves in the conventional way. Think about this. This settlement of elves were able to withstand Tevinter at the height of its power. Yet both Abelas and Solas confirm that this was a weakened remnant of the ancient elves and they did not have the advantage of an elven god fighting for them. Solas does not need an army of modern city elves fighting for him. He just needs a fully prepared and armed legion of sentinels with him at their head to be more than a match for any modern army.
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Post by Noxluxe on Mar 25, 2019 9:38:35 GMT
This is exactly why I wouldn't expect the situation to last if you did give the mages their freedom, with the backing of the Divine. What we understand is the situation in the epilogue to Trespasser, no matter who is Divine, is exactly what I would predict would happen as Inquisitor - since my Lavellan is very cynical about their reforms having a lasting effect. I think it would be naïve of anyone to expect any different: The College of Enchanters comprising the "free" mages of the south have no real influence and are merely tolerated by the community at large. The real power lies with Grand Enchanter Vivienne (or Divine although I find that outcome absurd) who has the backing of the nobility in Orlais and probably elsewhere too, with her loyalist mages who advocate a return to the Circle system. The monarch of Ferelden was undermined in their efforts to help the rebel mages by them opting to align themselves to Tevinter as soon as the going got tough. Other leaders were less liberal in their views to begin with, so with that outcome before them they are unlikely to give the College of Enchanters their refuge or support. Ordinary people are likely still to be highly suspicious of mages and possibly even hostile, so more likely to insist on them being confined rather than roaming among them. Thus overtime I fully expect that the Circles will again become the norm, either controlled by the Templars as before or by the State in which they are located. That's pretty much exactly what I'm saying, except my Lavellan is more concerned with the situation destabilizing back into ill-timed war and disaster that will only help and encourage Solas, thus potentially requiring more intervention, thus being an argument for keeping the Inquisition in a position to take steps at least until we're sure things have actually settled down, rather than returning to the status quo. And depending on what circumstances you've left the mages in, and the inevitable backlash to that, that may take a while. It already stretches suspension of disbelief for the rebel mages to be allowed to live peacefully in their circles again while the rest of Thedas lets bygones be bygones after the old Tevinter Emperium, all the Blights, the continent-wide magical war, the rifts and the big hole in the sky have all ravaged the world, and those are just the things the public knows about. With another well-intentioned mage terrorist threatening to tear the fabric of reality apart, it's getting hard to deny that they really are the biggest collective threat to ordinary people and always have been. The Chantry may decide to start annulling en masse in order to save the world, the backlash to Leliana's reckless policies and murderous gestapo if someone put her in charge could topple the world order, the mages, dissatisfied with what they already achieved and aware how vulnerable they are, may decide to strike the first blow again. There are tons of ways things could come apart at the seams until everyone has resigned themselves to the current order of business, and if they do then my Lavellan wants to be on it as quickly and efficiently as possible.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 25, 2019 10:55:38 GMT
Why would we need to commit genocide in order to defeat them? The Qunari are still a thing, the Templars survived DA 2...etc. Anyways yes, Elves. I doubt all the Dalish people will unite under his banner but a mixture of Dalish/ Ancient and city Elves will likely flock to the cause. Sure, but elves have a smaller population. Killing a shit ton of them already would have an impact. Its not genocide to kill an army, even if they are all one ethnic group. That's like saying it'd be genocide against humans to fight off the Orlesians.
Sorry, I'm blanking on the name since it was a while ago. I'm referring to the Fade openings you needed to close in Inquisition. Just to be clear, I could be wrong on whether or not Solas has the ability to manipulate these or not. I do know that he seeks to bring the Fade into the real world of Thedas in order to reshape reality to his preference. Well, Solas would need the Anchor to interact with the Veil. I think someone asked Weekes about whether Solas took the Anchor at the end of Trespasser or just dissipated it. And I think he responded with "Spoilers.", essentially. But I don't see how Solas can have use of the Anchor right now. Cus if he did have it now, he just would have done what he said he'd have done if everything had gone "right" at the Temple of Sacred Ashes back at the beginning: claim the Anchor and tear down the Veil. The Veil is still up, therefore Solas must not have the Anchor.
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 25, 2019 12:30:47 GMT
But I don't see how Solas can have use of the Anchor right now. Cus if he did have it now, he just would have done what he said he'd have done if everything had gone "right" at the Temple of Sacred Ashes back at the beginning: claim the Anchor and tear down the Veil. The Veil is still up, therefore Solas must not have the Anchor. The anchor had power to open and close small rifts in the Veil. However, it did not have the power to tear it open in the way Corypheus did, or close it again as the Inquisitor did. For that it needed far more power. When we closed the hole the first time, we required the assistance of either mages pouring magic into the rift, or Templars supressing magic within the rift, making it possible for the anchor to operate on its own. On the second occasion we needed the orb to close it. Essentially the orb and anchor acted as a pair; the orb being a major power source which the anchor could direct. With his orb destroyed, Solas would have to find another power source even if he did have the anchor or some remnant of it. So the reason he hasn't yet dropped the Veil is that he hasn't yet acquired the power to do so, either through finding another orb or possibly acquiring the materials to create a new one.
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Post by Walter Black on Mar 25, 2019 20:28:26 GMT
Personally, I would prefer it if Solas only had a small group of followers, and used everyone else's forces as proxies. A shadow war would be more interesting to me thematically. Also game play wise, I would rather face limited, unique and strategic boss fights, rather than simply more waves of trash mobs and damage sponges .
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Mar 25, 2019 20:36:54 GMT
But I don't see how Solas can have use of the Anchor right now. Cus if he did have it now, he just would have done what he said he'd have done if everything had gone "right" at the Temple of Sacred Ashes back at the beginning: claim the Anchor and tear down the Veil. The Veil is still up, therefore Solas must not have the Anchor. The anchor had power to open and close small rifts in the Veil. However, it did not have the power to tear it open in the way Corypheus did, or close it again as the Inquisitor did. For that it needed far more power. When we closed the hole the first time, we required the assistance of either mages pouring magic into the rift, or Templars supressing magic within the rift, making it possible for the anchor to operate on its own. On the second occasion we needed the orb to close it. Essentially the orb and anchor acted as a pair; the orb being a major power source which the anchor could direct. With his orb destroyed, Solas would have to find another power source even if he did have the anchor or some remnant of it. So the reason he hasn't yet dropped the Veil is that he hasn't yet acquired the power to do so, either through finding another orb or possibly acquiring the materials to create a new one. Well, e does have the remnants of Mythal's power supeing him up now. But yeah, he might require an rb, too. But I don't think we can assume he has the anchor half of that pair, yet. He couldn't forcibly remove it from the Inquisitor in the start, and it only got more and more entangled with TLCA's being the longer it was present.
Patrick did respond about whether Solas actually took it or not, though. Can someone find it? Or tell me how to? My search function skills are yielding no results. lol
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Post by gervaise21 on Mar 25, 2019 21:45:21 GMT
Patrick did respond about whether Solas actually took it or not, though. Can someone find it? Or tell me how to? My search function skills are yielding no results. lol I think you are probably right that his answer was "spoilers". It was never clear exactly what he did at the end of Trespasser. If he simply severed the arm then the anchor would still be in the amputated limb and presumably could still build up power dangerously, so he must have done something to nullify it as well or alternatively absorbed the power in some way. From what Corypheus said at Haven, it would seem that he may have created the anchor from knowledge he gained from the orb. It seemed to be a repository of knowledge as well as power because the note we find in the Arbor Wilds written by Samson (I think) says that when he asked Corypheus about how he knew certain things the latter attributed it to the orb. It was Corypheus who asserted that the anchor could no longer be separated from us but the orb probably didn't give him that sort of information because it was never assumed to be needed. However, if Solas originally crafted the orb, or witnessed its creation, then he probably would know the relationship between the two. It probably suited him not to remove the anchor from us back at Haven or may be he did lack the power to do so at that time.
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Post by Iddy on Mar 26, 2019 18:28:56 GMT
One way or the other, I don't like killing enemies who are mostly good people being misled by the big bad.
I had the same issue with Loghain's soldiers, who were manipulated into believing the Grey Wardens betrayed the king.
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Post by wright1978 on Mar 26, 2019 18:37:10 GMT
I’d prefer solas to be a puppet master with agents over an army.
I’d prefer to be killing qunari anyway.
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Post by wickedcool on Mar 26, 2019 18:44:49 GMT
Elves Spirits such as the spirit that controls werewolves Vaterral
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Post by Blaze on Apr 4, 2019 14:57:16 GMT
he seem to prefer spies over an army. in trespasser he said that he will rebuild the world of the elves from the chaos that will ensue. i think whatever he plans, he won't be the one fighting but rather the catalyst of it. though really we still lack a lot of info to assume how it will go down.
i would also like to remind people that after restoring his powers he showed the ability to turn people to stone. and that's not to mention the stories found in the cross roads library about his ability to turn into a giant wolf... we have loki, fenrir and medusa in one guy, does he even needs an army?
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 5, 2019 2:07:44 GMT
So long as I get to kill Solas and spit in his face as he dies, I don't much care who I have to kill to get there.
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Post by pessimistpanda on Apr 5, 2019 4:09:44 GMT
Does he need one? He can turn people into stone by blinking.
Solas will be a more compelling antagonist if he does his own dirty work, in my opinion.
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 5, 2019 6:29:42 GMT
Does he need one? He can turn people into stone by blinking. Solas will be a more compelling antagonist if he does his own dirty work, in my opinion. I really hope there is some kind of involved questline of the protagonist trying to find a way to negate that particular advantage of his. We could get some good lore about magic's mechanics out of that. As long as he can do that, though, yeah he doesn't need an army against most opponents.
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 5, 2019 6:44:26 GMT
Have we not faced other mages that cast the petrify spell previously? Can't think of any off the top of my head but I feel at least some enemy mages must have had it in their arsenal.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 5, 2019 7:21:24 GMT
Velanna says there aren't many elves, which makes every each of them precious
It is possible she was only referring to the Dalish when she said this. Their numbers are small. This point was emphasised in the Masked Empire. Celene was surprised to discover how small the numbers were in the Dalish clan she encountered (around 50) and how the Dalish as a whole were not the threat the Orlesian nobility had assumed them to be. It was also mentioned how few children were in the clan. So it is possible that at least some of the Dalish are experiencing fertility problems. It is worth pointing out that Sabrae clan could not have been very large either, considering Hawke's small party was capable of wiping them out. If the clans united against a common foe, as they did in Ferelden in the 5th Blight, then that might make them a force to be reckoned with but I am not sure how many Dalish would be willing to commit to following Fen'Harel and might only do so on the promise that he was going to release their gods. Which means they might then instantly turn on him once the gods were free. Somehow I don't think he would want his potential enemies to be too knowledgeable about his plans and he had a consistent contempt for the Dalish throughout the time we knew him (with the exception of Lavellan), so I think it is unlikely he would use them in any numbers. Those of his followers we see with vallaslin might well be like Felassan, pretending to be Dalish in order not to arouse suspicion and infiltrate them.
He would definitely seem to be using city elves. Not only is there evidence of this in game (unless his follower in Trespasser was another ancient elf passing themselves off as modern) but also in the latest comic Deception, where he had recruited a former slave to work for him (or one of his followers had). I would imagine he could have a great number of followers among the slaves of Tevinter. Not only would he be able to preach a message of liberation that would appeal to them but those working for the nobility of Tevinter are also in a position to access any artefacts that ancient Tevinter scavenged from the elven empire and that could be useful to him.
We were told in DAO that there are 10,000 elves in the Val Royeaux alienage alone. In other cities across southern Thedas the numbers would be smaller than this but combined would constitute a sizeable army. The number of elven slaves would likely even outnumber those in southern Thedas. Since the population of Minrathous is said to number 1 million and a fair sized proportion are going to be slaves, even taking into account that the elven percentage of the slave population is only around 50%, I'd say that would still put the number of elves in Minrathous alone into 6 figures. That means potentially a huge army across Tevinter as a whole. Of course the Qun have also been making inroads into the slave population in order to use them to undermine their enemy but Solas has the advantage of being of the same race as the elven slaves, which probably would make them more likely to trust him over the Qun.
However, initially Solas is more likely to be working through agents and keeping his presence low key whilst he moves his pieces into place on his chessboard. Only then will he reveal what he sees as his winning move. So we are less likely to encounter elves as an army rather than individuals or small groups unless or until it comes to a final showdown. How many modern elves he has supporting him may well then depend on the actions and decisions of our PC up to then.
Incidentally, I do not relish having to kill large numbers of elves either, particularly if they are former slaves who have been led astray by the Dread Wolf, so there had better be an option for saving them from such a fate. However, this sentiment also applies if they have been beguiled by the Qun. The majority of elves would pretty much have to be city elves, right? And the Dalish would need to be a small society. Nomadic hunter-gatherer clans can't feed large populations. I'm not sure how big one can get, but in order to get numbers like 10,000, you'd need a city fed by large farms outside of it. So if there's going to be a huge army to take down (big if, given that that hasn't been how Solas has worked so far) it would need to be mostly city elves. As for his follower in Trespasser, her accent sounded a bit like Merril's to me. (A Welsh accent, I think, outside the context of the game?) I'd thought she might be a Dalish elf who'd either never been marked, or had accepted Solas's version of her pantheon's story and lost the vallaslin. But yeah, if the Dalish choose to follow the Dread Wolf in numbers, that could be a really bad thing for their population. That might even be the end of that, especially if enough of the human aristocracy blame all the Dalish for it.
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 5, 2019 7:23:33 GMT
Have we not faced other mages that cast the petrify spell previously? Can't think of any off the top of my head but I feel at least some enemy mages must have had it in their arsenal. The Warden and mage party members had a temporary version in Origins. But Solas's version is implied to be permanent. (I think. If those Qunari statues aren't corpses, maybe Solas should have kept half an eye on Viddasala, right? But he didn't, so she's probably either dead or permanently trapped. Let's hope for the first one.)
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Post by formerfiend on Apr 5, 2019 9:56:45 GMT
I suppose I'm just not convinced we should expect the ability to be as effective in a boss fight as it was in that particular cutscene. After all, any time anyone uses a fireball in a cutscene & it actually connects, that tends to be an instant kill, too, but we don't talk about any mage that can cast fireball as an unstoppable enemy.
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1685
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1,633
riverdaleswhiteflash
1,501
Sept 28, 2016 8:03:42 GMT
September 2016
riverdaleswhiteflash
Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire
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Post by riverdaleswhiteflash on Apr 5, 2019 12:22:59 GMT
I suppose I'm just not convinced we should expect the ability to be as effective in a boss fight as it was in that particular cutscene. After all, any time anyone uses a fireball in a cutscene & it actually connects, that tends to be an instant kill, too, but we don't talk about any mage that can cast fireball as an unstoppable enemy. Well, no, Solas can't have an instant-kill ability during boss fights. But I think a more satisfying approach would be to have the PC come up with a way to counter it, rather than giving Solas a weapon that drops off in power when he actually tries to use it against the PC.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
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26,664
gervaise21
10,784
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 5, 2019 18:43:18 GMT
Can't think of any off the top of my head but I feel at least some enemy mages must have had it in their arsenal. There were also those people in Mark of the Assassin who had been turned to stone. I think they were former crew members of Isabella but since I never took her with me I only know this from reading about it. Plus of course there was Eleni Zinovia in the basement at Kinloch Hold. Not only had she been stone since ancient times (she was formerly the mother of Hessarian) but could also speak. There were also those two statues that could do the same in DAA. In the case of Zinovia apparently her husband bound her spirit to a statue, so it wasn't exactly turning her to stone but destroying her body and binding her to stone. Still petrification and binding a spirit to stone permanently are related spells and seem to have cropped up often enough that it is hardly surprising that Solas was able to do this. But I think a more satisfying approach would be to have the PC come up with a way to counter it, rather than giving Solas a weapon that drops off in power when he actually tries to use it against the PC. Presumably a way to counter the spell would be to find a way of breaking the binding on the person. I imagine that would theoretically be possible. A possible solution might lie in the archives of Minrathous. If the Archon who was Zinovia's irate husband knew how to bind someone to stone, I dare say he knew how to break the binding as well but just chose not to.
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0
Apr 24, 2024 15:40:33 GMT
5,812
AlleluiaElizabeth
2,463
August 2016
alleluiaelizabeth
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Mass Effect Andromeda, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
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Post by AlleluiaElizabeth on Apr 6, 2019 10:25:55 GMT
Can't think of any off the top of my head but I feel at least some enemy mages must have had it in their arsenal. Well, so far, no matter the spell, enemy mages have at least had to move their hands or something to cast. And have had a casting time. Solas doesn't even need line of sight, apparently. Still petrification and binding a spirit to stone permanently are related spells I'm not sure we actually have the evidence to back that statement up. For one thing, one is transmutation while the other is a binding spell, whch honestly seem to be fundamentally different mechanics to me. Also we have no reason, at the moment, to assume that Zinovia couldn't have been just as easily bound to a different medium. So I don't think her being bound to stone in particular means anything other than the archon wanted her to stay bound for a long time and chose something durable as a result. This is why I want a quest line that sheds more light on how magic actually works. I want the mechanics spelled out more. And at least one cool magical theory debate.
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∯ Oh Loredy...
455
0
26,664
gervaise21
10,784
August 2016
gervaise21
Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights
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Post by gervaise21 on Apr 6, 2019 12:15:41 GMT
This is why I want a quest line that sheds more light on how magic actually works. I want the mechanics spelled out more. And at least one cool magical theory debate. Well since we're headed to Tevinter, we're certainly going to the right place for a magical debate. They could even explain the discrepancies in knowledge about magic and the Fade whilst we were in the south by the fact that they had been limited by Chantry rules and Templar supervision. The Circles in Tevinter have had no such problem since they broke away, plus access to the archives from the old Imperium, so I would hope we could get some better insights this time round.
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