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Post by Qui-Gon GlenN7 on Apr 3, 2019 0:20:04 GMT
Anthem was always envisioned as an online multiplayer game, according to developers who worked on it, but it wasn’t always a loot shooter, the kind of game where you’d endlessly grind missions for new weapons. In these early versions, the idea was that you’d embark from a city and go out on expeditions with your friends, staying out in the world as long as you could survive. You’d use a robotic exosuit, and you’d fight monsters with melee and shooting attacks, but the focus was less on hoarding loot and more on seeing how long you could survive. One mission, for example, might take you and a squad to the center of a volcano, where you’d have to figure out why it was erupting, kill some creatures, and then fight your way back. “That was the main hook,” said an Anthem developer. “We’re going out as a team, going to try to accomplish something as a team, then come back and talk about it.” Along the way, you could scavenge or salvage alien ships for parts and bring them back to your base in order to upgrade your weapons or enhance your suit.That sounds ... really dull to me. Could just be me though It would definitely stand out a bit more, in current market. Tho gods know how Bioware would handle survival mechanics. And it kind of makes sense for more "party experience", struggle of surviving together in hostile environment, instead of this MMO "Let's blow shit up with ultra combos".
Question for people who know about this: so what was that first E3 gameplay reveal? Completely "faked"/no one was actually playing it? How do you put something like that?
That was scripted events playing out as core gameplay, 3dsMax renders presented as gameplay, basically shoemaker shit that a modder does, except with dev tools. They are a bad joke to me at this point.
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Obadiah
N5
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem
Origin: Obadaya
XBL Gamertag: ObadiahPearce
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Post by Obadiah on Apr 3, 2019 0:25:47 GMT
At this point, I hope EA or the devs at Bioware realize that their strengths are in modular, encounter based, story driven video games, instead of this open world crap that is very difficult for me to take seriously (oh yeah, there's a chest with stuff in it right over there out in the open).
Although I do like combo-ing stuff up, you know, when the combo works
P.S. Why does poison darts not have a prime icon? For the longest while I didn't try them because I thought they removed the option of single player combos.
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theduke
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR
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Post by theduke on Apr 3, 2019 0:33:45 GMT
Frostbite engine causing issues? Color me surprised. I have zero faith in Bioware at this point, would not shock me at all if DA4 flops.
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Post by slimgrin727 on Apr 3, 2019 0:35:02 GMT
They apparently learned nothing from Andromeda's messy development. Same exact issues. The truly amazing thing is how long EA allows them to bumble around on these projects. 7 years is enough time for a competent studio to complete two AAA games. On top of it all, they're sticking with Frostbyte...it'll be a miracle if DA4 turns out alright.
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Kelwing
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Shattered Steel, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, SWTOR, Anthem, Mass Effect Legendary Edition
Origin: Necomis
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Post by Kelwing on Apr 3, 2019 0:36:55 GMT
He didn't scrap DA4. He scrapped one version (I believe) and rebooted it as Morrison?
They killed off the singleplayer DA4. Morrison is going to be GaaSy.
Hmm
I can accept Anthem for what it is as a GaaS. I will not accept DA4 as a GaaS type game or for that matter any possible future ME game.
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Post by The Elder King on Apr 3, 2019 0:38:08 GMT
They apparently learned nothing from Andromeda's messy development. Same exact issues. The truly amazing thing is how long EA allows them to bumble around on these projects. 7 years is enough time for a competent studio to complete two AAA games. On top of it all, they're sticking with Frostbyte...it'll be a miracle if DA4 turns out alright. I guess the game might have been at least a bit profiteable in the end. The Frostbite decision is not (at least entirely) in Bioware’s hands, though.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 3, 2019 0:47:17 GMT
Snip but because the game launched to universal acclaim no journalist went out of his/her way to find people ready to air their dirty laundry about unhappy times during development.
Senior mgt mismanagement is exposed by Jason's article as well as a corp culture that treats worker bees as disposable diapers, imo. Add Bio's pre-article response (they knew it was coming) in an attempt to deflect / mitigate damage, by itself is telling. For senior mgt to pooh-pooh even contemplating the idea of what makes other loor-shooters good / bad? is the height of hubris. These guys were laying perfumed gold plated turds, imo.
Universal acclaim is hardly in line with a Metacritic score of < 60 from 72 reviewers, no less. One can also ask, who is in this group called Universal? As to unhappy times, well, I have yet to meet a doctor that mandates an unhappy worker weeks off due to "unhappiness".
Jason decided to look for a story. A good journalist never goes to the corp "yes men". The fact that Jason is not a "no journalist" is why the story broke.
We ought to thank the lowly devs for stitching together a game called Anthem. They are the miracle workers and not "Bio magic".
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 3, 2019 0:49:59 GMT
Which games? Because in AC Origins/Odyssey case you can finish the whole campaign without bothering to buy anything in the store.
Snip
Mark my words, this is not how DA4 will be. It will be online only just like Anthem, but with swords and boards. Oh, and the no audio bug will still be there in DA4.
LOL,
DA4 won't be recognizable as a DA game. Online only, MP, live service and grind.
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Post by Sartoz on Apr 3, 2019 0:57:13 GMT
At this point, I hope EA or the devs at Bioware realize that their strengths are in modular, encounter based, story driven video games, instead of this open world crap that is very difficult for me to take seriously (oh yeah, there's a chest with stuff in it right over there in the open). Although I do like comboing stuff up, you know, when the combo works P.S. Why does poison darts not have a prime icon? For the longest while I didn't try them because they removed the option of single player combos.
Single player combos means no need for play with friends.
I believe EA does not give a crap what type of games are developed as long as they are Online, MP, Live-Service and have a tail-end revenue stream. I look forward to EA Cloud based gaming with subscription, Prime-Access and other foul smelling perfume.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Apr 3, 2019 0:59:43 GMT
A very informative read. It's a little depressing really, particularly as a software developer myself who has been fortunate enough to work on things that generally had far looser timetables. I'm honestly glad I never went into game development. Management seems far too ignorant of the realities, and consumers can be far too ruthless.
I hope things improve.
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Cerberus is Humanity! Join us today and receive a limited edition commemorative pin!
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Post by 10k on Apr 3, 2019 1:00:29 GMT
They apparently learned nothing from Andromeda's messy development. Same exact issues. The truly amazing thing is how long EA allows them to bumble around on these projects. 7 years is enough time for a competent studio to complete two AAA games. On top of it all, they're sticking with Frostbyte...it'll be a miracle if DA4 turns out alright. Yeah and people still like to blame EA, like they're the only problem. Sooner or later BW will have to take responsibility for their own actions.
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midnight tea
Twitter Guru
gateway beverage
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Post by midnight tea on Apr 3, 2019 1:08:41 GMT
Snip but because the game launched to universal acclaim no journalist went out of his/her way to find people ready to air their dirty laundry about unhappy times during development.
Senior mgt mismanagement is exposed by Jason's article as well as a corp culture that treats worker bees as disposable diapers, imo. Add Bio's pre-article response (they knew it was coming) in an attempt to deflect / mitigate damage, by itself is telling. For senior mgt to pooh-pooh even contemplating the idea of what makes other loor-shooters good / bad? is the height of hubris. These guys were laying perfumed gold plated turds, imo. Jason has been known for airing Bioware's development woes for years now, so if you didn't think they expected an article from him for a while now I have a bridge in Brooklyn to sell that you might be interested with. The same ex-employee tells us that development woes similar to that Bioware's are an industry-wide problem (the guy worked for several major developers aside from BW. I have a feeling he knows about it better than me or you). Also - what does 'acclaim is hardly in line with a Metacritic score of < 60 from 72 reviewers, no less' has anything to do with what I said? Are you sure you've even read what you're responded to properly? Because I'm fairly sure you're not responding to what was there. Or did you miss in my comment - or in Schreier article - mentions of similar attitudes and problems existing not just in Bioware or during production in Anthem? Quite a non-sequitur here, Sartoz, in an already very non-sequitur reply. This is basically entirely unrelated to what I was talking about. Nowhere in my comment there's anything about going to the corp 'yes men' or 'no journalist' nonsense. If you want to speak to yourself, make a separate comment instead of pretending to respond to me. So-called "Bio magic" is an industry-wide problem and if there's one thing where the article has made a disservice to everyone is trying to characterize it as something only BW deals with at this point in time.
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 3, 2019 1:16:53 GMT
Since some are talking about DA4, I am personally disheartened to see in the article that Mike Laidlaw left as a result of the original plan for DA4 (codenamed Joplin) being cancelled. And that the staff were excited for it and for Laidlaw's visions of how that game would be, but in the end the whole thing was scrapped in order to move staff to Anthem, which was the priority particularly due to its extremely tight schedule.
Many of us speculated that Laidlaw's departure and the rumored reboot on DA4 development were connected. But seeing that fitting the whole picture with Anthem as a leading factor as well is pretty disheartening.
In the end this is just corporate practice at its worst ruining our games.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 3, 2019 1:29:14 GMT
Since some are talking about DA4, I am personally disheartened to see in the article that Mike Laidlaw left as a result of the original plan for DA4 (codenamed Joplin) being cancelled. And that the staff were excited for it and for Laidlaw's visions of how that game would be, but in the end the whole thing was scrapped in order to move staff to Anthem, which was the priority particularly due to its extremely tight schedule. Many of us speculated that Laidlaw's departure and the rumored reboot on DA4 development were connected. But seeing that fitting the whole picture with Anthem as a leading factor as well is pretty disheartening. In the end this is just corporate practice at its worst ruining our games. Is it really completely corporate practice though? You can't sell anything without consumers. People need to stop buying things from these half-assed games. If the stores stopped getting customers, they'd change their business models. They probably took loot boxes out of Anthem after the whole BF II debacle. People need to stop buying things period.
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Apr 3, 2019 1:30:54 GMT
The gaming industry should be progressing on all fronts but IMO it's increasing popularity has not always translated into better products, especially in BioWares case. Consumer entitlement and toxicity has definitely progressed as well. Gamers are just a big an issue as developers. Until everyone sees that, we're stuck in an endless loop of salt.
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Post by river82 on Apr 3, 2019 1:32:00 GMT
Went to the Anthem subreddit and every single thread on the front page was about the article.
You're an influential man, Jason xD
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Hrungr
Twitter Guru
ღ N-Special
More coffee...? More coffee.
Staff Mini-Profile Theme: Hrungr
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda, Anthem
Origin: Hrungr
Prime Posts: 18,258
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Post by Hrungr on Apr 3, 2019 1:38:58 GMT
Jason Schreier @jasonschreier I've spoken to several current and former BioWare employees since my article went live today, including some I hadn't interviewed earlier. General consensus has been sadness and disappointment at BioWare's statement, which read as disheartening to those who hoped for change.
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Post by spacev3gan on Apr 3, 2019 1:39:39 GMT
Is it really completely corporate practice though? You can't sell anything without consumers. People need to stop buying things from these half-assed games. If the stores stopped getting customers, they'd change their business models. They probably took loot boxes out of Anthem after the whole BF II debacle. People need to stop buying things period. I agree with your point when it comes to consumers making poor decisions, but... that doesn't really relate. Scrapping DA4 initial plan in order to shift staff to Anthem is corporate practice. That took place entirely within Bioware without any consumer involvement.
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Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquistion, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by cypherj on Apr 3, 2019 1:48:29 GMT
Is it really completely corporate practice though? You can't sell anything without consumers. People need to stop buying things from these half-assed games. If the stores stopped getting customers, they'd change their business models. They probably took loot boxes out of Anthem after the whole BF II debacle. People need to stop buying things period. I agree with your point when it comes to consumers making poor decisions, but... that doesn't really relate. Scrapping DA4 initial plan in order to shift staff to Anthem is corporate practice. That took place entirely within Bioware without any consumer involvement. But why did they do it? Because these types of games were all the rage and Anthem was going to be a cash cow, recurring revenue for years, as opposed to SP RPG game that is a one time bump in revenue. GAAS are the issue, and the more money they continue to make, the more they'll move everything towards them. They dropped the original idea on DA4 to focus on a live service game, and I guarantee DA4 is going to be one as well.
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Stolen by inquisition forces.
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Post by The Biotic Trebuchet on Apr 3, 2019 1:54:14 GMT
Holy Shit This article is some srs stuff. some points i've collected so far: -MEA was meme'd to death -Uncle Biover is suffering the same syndrome that Dice -Frostbite should had sticked within the Battlefield franchise (It was made for it, originally) -Preorder Cancelled? -Swooping_is_bad.exe -I should stick to the ME3MP thread -idk what else...
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N5
Always teacher, sometimes writer
Teaching Mode Activated
Games: Mass Effect Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, Dragon Age 2, Dragon Age Inquisition, KOTOR, Baldur's Gate, Jade Empire, Mass Effect Andromeda
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Post by linksocarina on Apr 3, 2019 2:01:10 GMT
Jason Schreier @jasonschreierI've spoken to several current and former BioWare employees since my article went live today, including some I hadn't interviewed earlier. General consensus has been sadness and disappointment at BioWare's statement, which read as disheartening to those who hoped for change. Thats...worrisome.
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Post by OdanUrr on Apr 3, 2019 2:05:33 GMT
While I'm not entirely surprised at the underlying factors that contributed to making Anthem what it is, take that as you will, I have to admit it boggles the mind that practically everything that could go wrong went wrong. In short: - Frostbite: BioWare is forced to continue using an engine that has proved troublesome in the past and will continue to do so in the future, if the evidence is any indication.
- Benchmarking: Ludicrous, borderline criminal, refusal to learn from other competitors, such as Destiny.
- Pre-production: Years wasted without having a clear vision for the game, tied to...
- Management: Lack of effective leadership to guide the project through the different stages of development.
- Corporate infighting: Refusal to learn from the only BioWare studio that has experience with online multiplayer games, namely Austin with SWTOR.
Not to mention the continuous loss of talent due to burnout, the refusal by management to acknowledge critical flaws in the game, the decision to start from scratch with Frostbite, etc. I mean, just take a look at this quote: I apologize if this sounds ruthless, but is BioWare so incompetent now that something so blindingly obvious is considered a "big and new change"?
How is it possible for a company to make all the wrong decisions at every turn of the way? This isn't even hindsight territory, this is common sense territory. Are there no PMs left at BioWare?
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Post by Lebanese Dude on Apr 3, 2019 2:15:10 GMT
Jason Schreier @jasonschreierI've spoken to several current and former BioWare employees since my article went live today, including some I hadn't interviewed earlier. General consensus has been sadness and disappointment at BioWare's statement, which read as disheartening to those who hoped for change. Thats...worrisome. Nah that's just sensationalism. It's standard procedure to issue responses like these to external clientele. Our hope from a realistic perspective is that they will be held accountable from within moving forward.
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Post by lennybusker on Apr 3, 2019 2:21:04 GMT
If you're still discussing an "offline single player mode" for Dragon Age 4 as if it's a thing that could exist you're either being willfully ignorant or you have the comprehension and understanding of a 5 year old. That era is over. You might as well be talking about a "possible" port of the game to N64.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 2:21:29 GMT
I feel sorry for the team that worked on this game. Regarding their mental health, I hope no one was hospitalized by this.
PS--Frostbite sucks. Bring back Unreal Engine.
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